08-23-2012, 10:23 PM | #1 | |||
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Lance Armstrong - well ... damn
Wonder what he took and how he hid it. Probably a designer drug that only more recent tests were able to detect?
Armstrong faces lifetime ban, loss of 7 Tour titles after dropping doping charges fight | Fox News Quote:
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08-23-2012, 10:29 PM | #2 |
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Here's a longer article on it
Armstrong Won’t Fight USADA Charges | Keeping Score | TIME.com And Lance Armstrong's statement about it Lance Armstrong |
08-23-2012, 10:37 PM | #3 | |
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Here's what the judge said in dismissing Armstrong's lawsuit against the USADA, which led to Armstrong's decision to not go to arbitration:
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Thinkin' of a master plan 'Cuz ain't nuthin' but sweat inside my hand So I dig into my pocket, all my money is spent So I dig deeper but still comin' up with lint Last edited by cartman : 08-23-2012 at 10:38 PM. |
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08-23-2012, 10:38 PM | #4 |
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Vacating wins is the stupidest thing ever. No matter what sport.
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08-23-2012, 10:47 PM | #5 |
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It is when there's probably not a clean cyclist in the whole damn sport - at least at the time Armstrong won his titles.
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08-23-2012, 10:51 PM | #6 | |
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I agree. He gets to keep the most important thing-money. Last edited by Galaxy : 08-23-2012 at 10:51 PM. |
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08-23-2012, 10:52 PM | #7 | |
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This.
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08-23-2012, 11:13 PM | #8 |
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Liveweak
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08-23-2012, 11:30 PM | #9 |
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This is him basically pleading no contest
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08-23-2012, 11:52 PM | #10 |
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08-23-2012, 11:53 PM | #11 |
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08-23-2012, 11:56 PM | #12 |
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Or it could be construed that he feels the USADA has already made up its mind, no matter what happens in arbitration. Which would likely be in their favor, since they get to pick the arbitrator.
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Thinkin' of a master plan 'Cuz ain't nuthin' but sweat inside my hand So I dig into my pocket, all my money is spent So I dig deeper but still comin' up with lint |
08-24-2012, 12:00 AM | #13 |
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Side note: Does anyone besides me keep reading the title as Louis Armstrong?
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08-24-2012, 12:12 AM | #14 |
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I'd say this is more along the lines of Armstrong deciding "y'know, life is too short. I'm retired, so fuck 'em"
People are most likely going to believe what they already believe - barring anything new anyway - so the research most likely showed Armstrong that he would remain marketable & at this point he's decided that's more important than investing any more energy in fighting it.
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08-24-2012, 12:23 AM | #15 |
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So who is the drug cheat that will be punished next week?
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08-24-2012, 12:30 AM | #16 |
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What does the USADA gain from him being deemed a cheat in arbitration?
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08-24-2012, 12:33 AM | #17 | |
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+1 If you know what the outcome of the rigged game is going to be, why continue to spend money at that table? That was basically the whole point of going to court. "Help, I'm being railroaded." "Yeah, you maybe are, but even if I intervene, they're just going to railroad you a different way, so whatever the case, why don't you two just figure it out on your own?" At that point, might as well be hung for a sheep as a goat. |
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08-24-2012, 01:03 AM | #18 |
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Would have made a hell of a LF for the giants too
Last edited by MrBug708 : 08-24-2012 at 01:03 AM. |
08-24-2012, 01:17 AM | #19 |
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08-24-2012, 05:16 AM | #20 |
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Ah the comparisons between the Bonds case and the Armstrong case. Fun times.
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08-24-2012, 05:38 AM | #21 | |||||||||
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I can only think of one thing right now.
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08-24-2012, 06:54 AM | #22 |
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Or there really could be actual evidence that the USADA has now that shows Armstrong cheated and he knows that and doesn't want it revealed. So he stops fighting them so the evidence does not come out and ruin his reputation and legacy for ever.
Of course he's never failed a drug test, he's been investigated by the US government and others and they chose not to pursue it, so it could be a witch hunt by the USADA. |
08-24-2012, 06:55 AM | #23 |
This guy has posted so much, his fingers are about to fall off.
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It's cycling. Who cares? This won't affect Armstrong's "legacy" where it matters - the US - because his legacy is cancer research and overcoming the odds. It's not cycling.
We actually care about baseball, so that's why Bonds and Clemens and others get so much shit. Armstrong participated in a largely overseas sport that was big once a year and that no one here really follows or cares about. He's probably known more for being Sheryl Crow's ex than for being a cyclist. This really isn't a big deal.
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08-24-2012, 07:09 AM | #24 | |
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While I tend to agree that his cancer research overcomes some (a lot?) of his doping legacy (if its true that he did it), just because the sport involved is not a popular one here in the US, doesn't mean he should receive less scorn and condemnation because of it. He was an incredible athlete winning 7 Tour De Frances, and certainly inspired a certain amount of young people to try the sport and compete professionally in it. If he cheated it doesn't matter which sport or if everyone else was doing it-he made the choice to cheat and he should be right up there with Bonds and Clemens in that regard. |
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08-24-2012, 07:16 AM | #25 |
This guy has posted so much, his fingers are about to fall off.
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But who cares? I think I have the typical US citizen's opinion on the sport of cycling, and that is EVERYONE cheats. It's like a sport made up of nothing but Barry Bonds's. The sport is really not legitimate to begin with, since they don't seem to have any semblance of a handle on the drug issues in the sport.
Throw on top of all of that what appears to be a witch hunt (he's out of the sport, isn't he?) and the fact that he's passed so many tests over the years, and I have a hard time working myself up about this. Heck, even if he came out and admitted it I wouldn't care. Dude was among the best cyclists ever, he got cancer, he came back. He still did those things - hell, just finishing the Tour de France once after battling cancer is a pretty inspiring story. So if you strip out the wins and dominance, that still remains. But still... it's cycling.
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08-24-2012, 07:54 AM | #26 |
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That's how I read. They aren't really viewed as a legit org in cycling so this is their showcase. I believe Lance probably cheated along the way, but also think he probably could have won if he'd really wanted to fight it. Also - how do they strip an international cycling title from him? Wouldn't that come from the French? Last edited by Desnudo : 08-24-2012 at 07:55 AM. |
08-24-2012, 08:01 AM | #27 | |
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Maybe that's the typical *sports fan's* view, but I think the typical citizen's view is that it's that sissy, irrelevant little game they do in France every so often, a bit like the Iditarod or the olympic biathlon. The bigger effect of this might be on the foundation, which regardless of your views on LA personally, has done a lot of good. |
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08-24-2012, 08:18 AM | #28 |
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I just don't see it. The cancer survivor persona has completely overriden his cyclist persona. People will mostly see them as unrelated. It's not like Barry Bonds, where he will always be identified as a baseball player first, no matter what he does (unless he pulls an OJ, I guess). And there's so much clutter in this story that people can choose to believe whatever they believe, to the extent this issue is even relevant to them.
I think for him, this was an easy decision because there was no upside to him going through this process. Now, you can say that's because he was guilty, but it appears he was going to be found guilty either way. So why do it?
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08-24-2012, 08:18 AM | #29 |
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08-24-2012, 08:39 AM | #30 |
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bill giffords piece in the mag called outside,gives some good info on his so called charity
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08-24-2012, 08:41 AM | #31 |
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bill giffords piece in the mag called outside,gives some good info on his so called charity
http://www.outsideonline.com/outdoor....html?page=all |
08-24-2012, 08:47 AM | #32 | |
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His success and Live Strong campaign did a lot to increase the popularity of road cycling in the US and as a side effect, triathlons. You think back 10-15 years or so and there were hardly any serious bikers on the roads. Now you see pelotons on the weekend. |
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08-24-2012, 08:55 AM | #33 | |
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Totally agree. Him dropping fighting the doping allogations does not change my stance on whether he used PED's or not. I still don't know I probably won't ever know if he did or not. |
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08-24-2012, 08:58 AM | #34 |
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The other thing is, this isn't some recent allegation. This has been in his shadow for almost as long as he's been in the public eye. So to some extent, the doping taint has already been baked into people's perception of him for years. And I think enough people generally distrust some European attempt to discredit him winning THEIR sport that people will discount it as likely untrue, in addition to the favorable view of him for the whole cancer survivor thing.
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08-24-2012, 09:04 AM | #35 |
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I always thought he was doping (I mean it's cycling), so not really a shock.
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08-24-2012, 09:15 AM | #36 |
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08-24-2012, 09:16 AM | #37 |
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I can't believe so many people are defending him like he didn't cheat. He did. Who cares, but don't be silly.
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08-24-2012, 09:23 AM | #38 |
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I don't think the people that think/assume he cheated care that much, but the real pro-Lance believers are definitely out in full force - just according to facebook and twitter. I don't have any feelings about the guy but he has a really, really intense and loyal fanbase.
Last edited by molson : 08-24-2012 at 09:23 AM. |
08-24-2012, 10:11 AM | #39 | |
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+1
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08-24-2012, 10:50 AM | #40 |
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Just curious: what would happen if we replace "Lance Armstrong" with "Michael Jordan" or "Wayne Gretzky"? I realize that basketball and hockey don't have the 'everybody is drugged' perception like cycling and baseball have, but would that have changed the whole 'guilty' until proven otherwise sentiment that goes around in this thread?
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08-24-2012, 10:57 AM | #41 |
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Is that sentiment limited to just this thread?
It seems to me that in most other cases, there is some real, rumored, or anecdotal evidence that people will point to as confirming the athlete as guilty until proven otherwise. Here, it's almost totally (again, from a typical US citizen perspective) the sport itself that serves as the indictment. I have no idea why this has even come up again. What is their evidence, and why does that override what I believe is hundreds of samples he's given over more than a decade? I seem to recall something about an old, controversial specimen they had. Is that still the evidence? Since hist sport is dirty as hell and all the top riders seem to have been implicated at one point or another, and he regularly beat all of them, it stands to reason he was doing what they did. But I have no idea what actual evidence there is of that, other than he wears tights and rides a bike professionally.
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M's pitcher Miguel Batista: "Now, I feel like I've had everything. I've talked pitching with Sandy Koufax, had Kenny G play for me. Maybe if I could have an interview with God, then I'd be served. I'd be complete." Last edited by Ksyrup : 08-24-2012 at 10:58 AM. |
08-24-2012, 10:59 AM | #42 | |
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that's where I'm at as well.
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08-24-2012, 11:01 AM | #43 | |
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I think with bigger stars there's more of a witchhunt. The case against Armstrong goes back a lot of years, that SI article last year spelled it out pretty convincingly. Accused athletes love to talk about the "guilty until proven innocent" sentiment, but it's a red herring, there's no definitive truth-revealing procedure here. People can have different opinions based on the info we have, which will always be inconsistent and will never really prove anything either way. But nobody's rushing to judge Armstrong. This has been going on forever. |
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08-24-2012, 11:43 AM | #44 | |
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Because you're NOT GUILTY. But I guess when you cheat your way to 7 Tour titles, you lose your principles a bit.
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08-24-2012, 11:46 AM | #45 | |
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If it was pretty much a fact that you needed to dope to win in hockey or basketball, then no |
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08-24-2012, 11:47 AM | #46 |
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The letter from Armstrong's attorney to the USADA spells out why he declined arbitration with the USADA.
http://alt.coxnewsweb.com/statesman/...ock-letter.pdf
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08-24-2012, 11:51 AM | #47 |
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How does the USADA have the authority to take his titles away from him?
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08-24-2012, 11:52 AM | #48 | |
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But if the whole process is slanted to where NOT GUILTY would never be the outcome, what would he gain by going through a process and having GUILTY splashed all over the world?
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08-24-2012, 11:54 AM | #49 |
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08-24-2012, 11:57 AM | #50 | |
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They don't. They're trying to assert an authority they don't have to improve a joke of a reputation at the expense of an athlete the French have been trying and failing for years to take down. Did he dope? Maybe. Dunno. But the USADA lacks jurisdiction on the matter. |
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