Magnolia

[samifan24]

Since our recent discussion of Donnie Darko, I thought I'd bring up P.T. Anderson's Magnolia. I just watched this film for the first time last night and was impressed to say the least. I'd never seen any of Anderson's work before and found Magnolia to be a real breath of fresh air.

I feel that the film works on so many different levels. The narrative opening and the significance of the 8:2 ratio in the film were genius to me; Even the title itself was intelligent. It is definately one which I will be watching several more times before I can really grasp everything which Anderson's trying to do in the film, but I believe some of the central themes are the cycle of life, forgiveness and human nature. Now I know this is a love it or hate it scenerio, but I just wanted to start an intelligent discussion of this film.

[DolaBump]

Originally posted by samifan24
Since our recent discussion of Donnie Darko, I thought I'd bring up P.T. Anderson's Magnolia. I just watched this film for the first time last night and was impressed to say the least. I'd never seen any of Anderson's work before and found Magnolia to be a real breath of fresh air.

I feel that the film works on so many different levels. The narrative opening and the significance of the 8:2 ratio in the film were genius to me; Even the title itself was intelligent. It is definately one which I will be watching several more times before I can really grasp everything which Anderson's trying to do in the film, but I believe some of the central themes are the cycle of life, forgiveness and human nature. Now I know this is a love it or hate it scenerio, but I just wanted to start an intelligent discussion of this film.

Excellent movie and may I also recommend Boogie Nights, Punch-Drunk Love and Hard Eight (all P.T.A. movies and recommended in that order). This is my favorite of his though, utilizing both interesting visuals and a crazy storyline -- not to mention some top flight acting.

[astralhaze]

I loved the movie. In addition to the themes you mentioned, I think the main point was how we are all connected to one another and every decision we make effects other people and then they effect someone else, so on and so forth. That was the main point of the introduction I think and the rest of the movie just illustrated the point further. There were, of course, other themes and I don't think I really grasped everything that was happening in the film until I watched it with a head full of LSD-25. It is a very layered and complex film, easily PTA's best work. Definately a movie that stands up to repeated viewings. By the way, if anyone has seen it and can tell me the lyrics to the little kid's rap song, I would be much obliged.

[Blackadar]

Good movie, weird movie.

[RoyalTen]

I have seen this movie twice. I havent grasped it yet. Kind of put it on the backburner, but now that you brought it up i might go rent it. It was a very odd movie, the few things i seemed very intelligent.

[wbonnell]

I, too, love this movie. The most poignant scene was when they all stop what they are doing and sing "Wise Up"- very emotional. Good stuff!

Tom Cruise's filmology:

cocky race car driver
cocky fighter pilot
cocky bartender
cocky sports agent
cocky special agent
cocky pool hustler
cocky vampire
cocky doctor
cocky trust fund baby
cocky lawyer (A Few Good Men, NOT The Firm)
cocky self help speaker

There are exceptions, but not many:

Born on the 4th of July
Rain Man
Far and Away
The Firm
Minority Report

[Qwikshot]

Anyone see In the Bedroom I was blown away, and heavily depressed...one of those art movies...really stirring...Sissy Spacek is awesome in it.

[wbonnell]

Originally posted by Qwikshot
Anyone see In the Bedroom I was blown away, and heavily depressed...one of those art movies...really stirring...Sissy Spacek is awesome in it.

i don't *like* being depressed, but I am intrigued by a movie that can evoke those kind of emotions. And talk about shocking...

[Barkeep49]

I think In the Bedroom is a riveting story from start to finish and a film that because of its themes and terrific acting will last a long time.

I found Magnolia's story extremely impressive at times, particularly with the Tom Cruise storyline and during parts of the cop storyline, and some of the visual effects very neat. However, I don't think it's a great movie. It, in my opinion, goes on too long and more importantly has an absurdist ending that I just didn't care for in anyway. I think that PTA (and it should be noted that I have yet to see Punch Drunk Love) needs to be reigned in a little and stop trying to do so much in his movies.

[astralhaze]

He may have agreed because Punch-Drunk Love is very restrained.

[GrantDawg]

I liked "In The Bedroom" but I was somewhat disappointed in a couple of ways. First, the ending was not what I expected. I didn't suspect a happy ending, but I thought that the end seemed to suggest that taking things into your own hands and you'll be whole. Not a good message.

Secondly, as my wife pointed out, there needed to be a little more character development before you could really feel for these people.

Anyway, just what I came away with.

[KWhit]

Originally posted by Barkeep49
I think that PTA (and it should be noted that I have yet to see Punch Drunk Love) needs to be reigned in a little and stop trying to do so much in his movies.

I disagree. I believe other directors should try to do MORE in their movies. I love directors who really put themselves (and their films) out there on the edge and try to do something really different.

By the way, I LOVED Magnolia.

[Barkeep49]

Originally posted by GrantDawg
I liked "In The Bedroom" but I was somewhat disappointed in a couple of ways. First, the ending was not what I expected. I didn't suspect a happy ending, but I thought that the end seemed to suggest that taking things into your own hands and you'll be whole. Not a good message.

I actually thought the ending suggested the exact opposite. I thought that the father (whose name I forget) was shattered after doing what he did. While he might have found it nessecarry I think he was hardly "whole". And that doesn't even mention what I think would be the continuing tension between him and his wife.

[samifan24]

I disagree. I believe other directors should try to do MORE in their movies. I love directors who really put themselves (and their films) out there on the edge and try to do something really different.

By the way, I LOVED Magnolia.

I agree 100%. PTA is the rare director who I will now expect more from after seeing Magnolia. In the end, though, I feel he "[tries] to do something really different" with his movies and stick his neck out there each time he takes the reigns of a film. He has become one of my new favorites. My other favorite director is Steven Soderbergh, who I feel the same way about. Sure, there's a greater risk involved, but I find myself coming away with more from their films in the end.

[Barkeep49]

Originally posted by KWhit
I disagree. I believe other directors should try to do MORE in their movies. I love directors who really put themselves (and their films) out there on the edge and try to do something really different.

By the way, I LOVED Magnolia.

I will let my enemy Edward Havens (of Filmjerk ) help sum up my feelings about PTA and give a better explaination of what I think of Magnolia.

Paul Thomas Anderson could be the best filmmaker alive. If only he knew it was in the field of short subjects. Anderson has this uncanny ability to take good ideas that shouldn't take more than twenty minutes of screen time and stretching them out to two and a half to three hours.

Anderson's ascension to indie film guru by the Forrest Gumps of the new filmgoing generation, whose film history began with Reservoir Dogs, was seen by the cinematic intelligentsia as the second coming of Tarantino. The new were thrilled by Anderson's use of tracking shots, retro music, pop culture reference and little personal touches. The cineastes tallied off in their heads all the films Anderson "paid homage" to. While the story of Dirk Diggler could have been interesting enough on its own, Anderson felt he had to give every other character equal screen time. Thus, we were forced to watch all these little backstories which really added nothing. (Notice for example how, when most young males mention Heather Graham as Rollergirl, they don't talk about her acting talents.) At least it wasn't as embraced by Generation Y as Pulp Fiction was.

Then came Magnolia. What would have otherwise illicted minor notice in the media became a firestorm when Tom Cruise, still in a reflective mood after working with Kubrick for a couple years, signed on to play a minor role. Inspired by the pure genius of songstress Aimee Mann, Anderson crafted a multi-layered story in which a bunch of boring people not deserving of a show on UPN get to ramble on about their pain. The one dynamic character in the entire piece is Cruise, who was naturally the one Anderson spent the least amount of time on. But when Cruise is running on all cylinders, he is one of the best actors working, and what he was able to accomplish with such a shallowly written character was deserving of all the accolades he received.

[samifan24]

I feel that you are attempting to break Magnolia down to its parts. I've never read anything from Edward Havens before; I prefer Joe Morgenstern of the WSJ, who praised Magnolia as his film of the year in 1999. Based on his website's title, I assume that Mr. Havens plays the guy who challenges all other reviews?

I understand that some characters' stories are better developed and more meaningful than others, but I feel that the legacy of Magnolia is the tapestry PTA weaves through the various stories of his characters.

I want to make it clear that I'm not trying to challenge you or even your taste in film. Everybody likes different things; I support that. I'm just trying to further the discussion a bit.

[astralhaze]

Funny. I didn't find any of the characters in Magnolia to be boring.

[Barkeep49]

In many ways what disappointed me about magnolia is that there are all these illusions to biblical events but I don't think they really added up to anything significant. In the end my problem is with the ending. Someone on this thread called the singing brilliant. I found it a lame way to end a film that was attempting to deal with very powerful events.

As for what filmjerk is, it is a website which offers gossip, script reviews, movie reviews, etc. It's broke a few "big" leaks (it was the first one to report the ending to Planet of the Apes for instance).

[samifan24]

I was unfamiliar with filmjerk. I didn't mean to sound condescending; I just prefer Morgenstern.

[DolaBump]

Originally posted by Barkeep49
In many ways what disappointed me about magnolia is that there are all these illusions to biblical events but I don't think they really added up to anything significant. In the end my problem is with the ending. Someone on this thread called the singing brilliant. I found it a lame way to end a film that was attempting to deal with very powerful events.

Well, the biblical allusions are to set up the ending -- its was an example of "atypical" foreshadowing I believe its been called. I think he was going for a magic realism type of feel, which I thought was definitely applicable. It was an interesting choice, though not one htat I would have made. Still, it brought home the connection between these disparate characters that was an underlying theme of the whole thing.

[GrantDawg]

Originally posted by Barkeep49
I actually thought the ending suggested the exact opposite. I thought that the father (whose name I forget) was shattered after doing what he did. While he might have found it nessecarry I think he was hardly "whole". And that doesn't even mention what I think would be the continuing tension between him and his wife.

The movie ends with his taking off the bandage and looking at his finger which was now healed. I think that is suggestive of being whole. Notice the wife is now fixing him breakfast, suggesting a normalizing of that relationship.

[cthomer5000]

Originally posted by GrantDawg
The movie ends with his taking off the bandage and looking at his finger which was now healed. I think that is suggestive of being whole. Notice the wife is now fixing him breakfast, suggesting a normalizing of that relationship.

That's an astute observation, but I think overall the message wasn't "take things into your own hands." I thought the movie was more about learning to deal with loss, and how most people really can't adequately do it.

The relationship between the husband and wife appeared to be permanently fractured. They partially blamed each other for the death of their son, and would hold that against each other forever. I don't think there was any real message in the killing of the dead-beat boyfriend, I just though the characters were something they felt had to be done just to live with themselves.