What is the game's obsession with Steve McNair?

Chubby · 11-17-2003, 12:03 PM

I think I know who Jim's favorite player is

He's POY all 5 seasons so far!

Ben E Lou · 11-17-2003, 12:06 PM

Jim Gindin is a former member of the media. We all know that the media has wanted a black quarterback to do well, now don't we???

Bee · 11-17-2003, 12:08 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by SkyDog
Jim Gindin is a former member of the media. We all know that the media has wanted a black quarterback to do well, now don't we???

Yes, but Jim picked the wrong one!

TLK · 11-17-2003, 12:11 PM

Seems he has a thing for Tampa Bay too. They won five of the six that I've made it through. I hate to see if McNair signed with Tampa Bay.

Daimyo · 11-17-2003, 12:22 PM

Since McNair is probably one of the top 2 or 3 QB's in real life its probably not much of a stretch.

Chubby · 11-17-2003, 12:25 PM

Hey, personally I think he's the MVP of this season (IRL) but every year of a career when he doesn't win a SB or lead the league in passing?

QuikSand · 11-17-2003, 12:28 PM

Great example of why I loathe the notion that a text sim has to have "real players."

What on earth makes us think that, by simming a game with a series of hand-coded ratings representing the starting QB from a certain team in a certain division, we are somehow seeing the real Steve McNair? I'll never get it.

Chubby · 11-17-2003, 12:32 PM

QS - ok

I don't see how it is possible for player #1866 to win POY for each of the 1st 5 seasons in my career when he hasn't won a SB or lead the league in anything.

The POY logic seems to be borked IMHO.

QuikSand · 11-17-2003, 12:40 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Chubby
The POY logic seems to be borked IMHO.

Now that's a real issue, perhaps.

Sorry to snipe.

Chubby · 11-17-2003, 12:52 PM

it's ok, i saw what ya meant.

i will guess and say it's combining his rushing stats to push him over the top in POY voting. it will be interesting to see once I get further out if other QB's who can run and throw also get POY.

Ben E Lou · 11-17-2003, 12:54 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Chubby
QS - ok I don't see how it is possible for player #1866 to win POY for each of the 1st 5 seasons in my career when he hasn't won a SB or lead the league in anything.

The POY logic seems to be borked IMHO.

Check his rushing stats. One thing about Awards in FOF4 (and probably 2K4) is that RB's who catch a high number of passes, and QB's with high rushing yardage get a bit overvalued, I think.

Ben E Lou · 11-17-2003, 12:54 PM

LOL Chubby. You beat me to it!

Chubby · 11-17-2003, 12:56 PM

heh i'm quick on the trigger

Yeah, his rushing stats are good, nothing godly tho. And considering they are either 1 and done in the playoffs or lose their 1st playoff game he hasn't done anything special.

We'll see if Onterrio Smith gets the POY award this year, 100+ catches out of the backfield (can't check exact stats, in the middle of a SB with my Bills)

Chubby · 11-17-2003, 01:42 PM

Hmmm McNair's #'s wre slightly down for 2008 and he didn't win POY.

Deuce McAllister did. 1587-4.0-11 rushing and 65-581-6 receieving.

comapred to who I thought was going to win...

Onterrio Smith 1172-3.7-7 rushing and 109-1031-7 receiving.

Ksyrup · 11-17-2003, 01:46 PM

If you pretend that McNair went to the University of Michigan, it will be much easier to understand why he wins POY every year...

Ben E Lou · 11-17-2003, 01:46 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Chubby
Hmmm McNair's #'s wre slightly down for 2008 and he didn't win POY.

Deuce McAllister did. 1587-4.0-11 rushing and 65-581-6 receieving.

comapred to who I thought was going to win...

Onterrio Smith 1172-3.7-7 rushing and 109-1031-7 receiving.

Makes sense to me. Virtually equal total yards (2168 vs. 2203) and Deuce has more TD's and more ypc. Works for me.

Daimyo · 11-17-2003, 02:28 PM

I had a stud center with an expiring contract who I couldn't afford to extend, so right before the super bowl I converted him to a DT. I was thinking if he turned out okay I could afford that kind of money for a DT and if he didn't I didn't lose anything. As it happened he sucked (good potential but near 0 currents).

The interesting part is that he won 1st team all-DT for that season even though he didn't play a down on defense! (he did have 6 tackles... I assume from plays that produced turnovers).

DukeRulesMAB · 11-17-2003, 02:31 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Chubby
And considering they are either 1 and done in the playoffs or lose their 1st playoff game he hasn't done anything special.

Playoffs don't count for the FOF awards except for, of course, the MVP of the Super Bowl, right?

QuikSand · 11-17-2003, 02:36 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Daimyo
I had a stud center with an expiring contract who I couldn't afford to extend, so right before the super bowl I converted him to a DT. I was thinking if he turned out okay I could afford that kind of money for a DT and if he didn't I didn't lose anything. As it happened he sucked (good potential but near 0 currents).

The interesting part is that he won 1st team all-DT for that season even though he didn't play a down on defense! (he did have 6 tackles... I assume from plays that produced turnovers).

My best guess is that all players, at ever psition, just go through a generic mechanism for determining "value" for selection to the all-pro team and so forth. Every player gets points for his passing yards, key run blocks, tackles, inteceptions, and so on... even if he has zeroes in nearly all of the categories. It all just adds up to some kind of generic "value" number, which allows him to be compared to other players.

Your C-cum-DT gota bunch of value points for getting key running blocks and maybe not giving up many sacks, and for whatever reason, that earned him more value points than any of the DTs in the league. When the game checked him (at his new position of DT) it determined he was the most meritorious player there, and he got the all-pro award.

Pretty silly flaw, but one that doesn't have much of an effect unless you either play a guy out of position, or make a weird roster move like you describe here. (When I play a CB out of position as a starting safety, I frequently see that guy get all-pro honors at CB... I'm guessing that tackles are weighted more heavily than PD or Int overall, yeilding similarly weird results)

QuikSand · 11-17-2003, 02:37 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by DukeRulesMAB
Playoffs don't count for the FOF awards except for, of course, the MVP of the Super Bowl, right?

That's correct also.

Chubby · 11-17-2003, 02:38 PM

Duke - Correct. but it's not like he was leading his team to the SB every year was all i was pointing out.

Sky - I don't have a prob with Deuce winning the POY. His stats support it, he was top in rushing yds but a case could be made for Onterrio too who lead the league in receptions at RB while getting 1000yds+ rushing AND receiving.

Ben E Lou · 11-17-2003, 09:37 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Chubby
Duke - Correct. but it's not like he was leading his team to the SB every year was all i was pointing out.

Sky - I don't have a prob with Deuce winning the POY. His stats support it, he was top in rushing yds but a case could be made for Onterrio too who lead the league in receptions at RB while getting 1000yds+ rushing AND receiving.

Oh, I absolutely agree with that. If Deuce is truly your league's POY, then Onterrio has gotta be a close second. They are so close, it is hard to imagine that anyone could be in between them.

11-17-2003, 12:06 PM	#2
Ben E Lou Morgado's Favorite Forum Fascist Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: Greensboro, NC	Jim Gindin is a former member of the media. We all know that the media has wanted a black quarterback to do well, now don't we??? __________________ The media don't understand the kinds of problems and pressures 54 million come wit'!

11-17-2003, 12:54 PM	#12
Ben E Lou Morgado's Favorite Forum Fascist Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: Greensboro, NC	LOL Chubby. You beat me to it! __________________ The media don't understand the kinds of problems and pressures 54 million come wit'!

11-17-2003, 01:46 PM	#15
Ksyrup This guy has posted so much, his fingers are about to fall off. Join Date: Nov 2000 Location: In Absentia	If you pretend that McNair went to the University of Michigan, it will be much easier to understand why he wins POY every year... __________________ M's pitcher Miguel Batista: "Now, I feel like I've had everything. I've talked pitching with Sandy Koufax, had Kenny G play for me. Maybe if I could have an interview with God, then I'd be served. I'd be complete."

11-17-2003, 12:11 PM	#4
TLK Pro Starter Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: Allen Park, MI	Seems he has a thing for Tampa Bay too. They won five of the six that I've made it through. I hate to see if McNair signed with Tampa Bay.

11-17-2003, 12:22 PM	#5
Daimyo College Starter Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: Berkeley	Since McNair is probably one of the top 2 or 3 QB's in real life its probably not much of a stretch.

11-17-2003, 12:25 PM	#6
Chubby Grizzled Veteran Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: Syracuse, NY	Hey, personally I think he's the MVP of this season (IRL) but every year of a career when he doesn't win a SB or lead the league in passing?

11-17-2003, 12:28 PM	#7
QuikSand lolzcat Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: Annapolis, Md	Great example of why I loathe the notion that a text sim has to have "real players." What on earth makes us think that, by simming a game with a series of hand-coded ratings representing the starting QB from a certain team in a certain division, we are somehow seeing the real Steve McNair? I'll never get it.

11-17-2003, 12:32 PM	#8
Chubby Grizzled Veteran Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: Syracuse, NY	QS - ok I don't see how it is possible for player #1866 to win POY for each of the 1st 5 seasons in my career when he hasn't won a SB or lead the league in anything. The POY logic seems to be borked IMHO.

11-17-2003, 12:52 PM	#10
Chubby Grizzled Veteran Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: Syracuse, NY	it's ok, i saw what ya meant. i will guess and say it's combining his rushing stats to push him over the top in POY voting. it will be interesting to see once I get further out if other QB's who can run and throw also get POY.

11-17-2003, 12:56 PM	#13
Chubby Grizzled Veteran Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: Syracuse, NY	heh i'm quick on the trigger Yeah, his rushing stats are good, nothing godly tho. And considering they are either 1 and done in the playoffs or lose their 1st playoff game he hasn't done anything special. We'll see if Onterrio Smith gets the POY award this year, 100+ catches out of the backfield (can't check exact stats, in the middle of a SB with my Bills)

11-17-2003, 01:42 PM	#14
Chubby Grizzled Veteran Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: Syracuse, NY	Hmmm McNair's #'s wre slightly down for 2008 and he didn't win POY. Deuce McAllister did. 1587-4.0-11 rushing and 65-581-6 receieving. comapred to who I thought was going to win... Onterrio Smith 1172-3.7-7 rushing and 109-1031-7 receiving.

11-17-2003, 02:28 PM	#17
Daimyo College Starter Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: Berkeley	I had a stud center with an expiring contract who I couldn't afford to extend, so right before the super bowl I converted him to a DT. I was thinking if he turned out okay I could afford that kind of money for a DT and if he didn't I didn't lose anything. As it happened he sucked (good potential but near 0 currents). The interesting part is that he won 1st team all-DT for that season even though he didn't play a down on defense! (he did have 6 tackles... I assume from plays that produced turnovers).

11-17-2003, 02:38 PM	#21
Chubby Grizzled Veteran Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: Syracuse, NY	Duke - Correct. but it's not like he was leading his team to the SB every year was all i was pointing out. Sky - I don't have a prob with Deuce winning the POY. His stats support it, he was top in rushing yds but a case could be made for Onterrio too who lead the league in receptions at RB while getting 1000yds+ rushing AND receiving.

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