FOFC Wisdom needed: Wife / workplace situation

[Butter]

Hello all. My wife is currently going through a rough workplace situation that I was hoping for some suggestions on. Maybe there's nothing to be done, but what is being done seems unfair.

My wife works in a place where she and two other supervisors (I'll refer to as SUPER1, SUPER2, and my wife) split a large team, and then also have one admin. assistant each. The AA's work as a team, but each AA reports to one supervisor. There is one AA in question (AAQ) who works under one of the other 2 supervisors. This AAQ behaves as if in charge of the office. My wife has expressed dismay to the other two supervisors about AAQ. AAQ is a headache who is slow at the job, has falsified time records, and generally acts superior to others in the office.

None of this is that big a deal, and my wife and AAQ had a Cold War type of relationship... they didn't really talk to each other, but occasionally had some chilly exchanges. My wife mostly let AAQ's direct supervisor, SUPER1 handle things. Privately, my wife told me that SUPER1 was always too soft on AAQ and never confronted AAQ on anything, always told AAQ was doing a great job even when that wasn't true, and never gave any correction.

My wife was also well-regarded by her own supervisor and others at the time.

But then a weird thing happened in the space of about a month. SUPER1 quit. My wife's supervisor quit. The CEO left.

All of SUPER1's people, including AAQ, now were split between my wife and SUPER2. My wife did not want to supervise AAQ, so let that person be supervised by SUPER2.

Recently, AAQ changed some parameters around a form that is mailed to consumers. The form that is mailed to consumers is state and federally regulated, and is also used by other offices in the same state. AAQ decided to "improve" the form, notifying no one by doing so, and putting the letter into use without approval from either supervisor nor anyone else in any of the affected offices. So now, 3 offices doing the same work in different areas were now using different forms. When confronted about this, AAQ lied about gaining earlier approval from SUPER1 before SUPER1's departure, and also about having notified my wife and SUPER2.

During a meeting about this with my wife and SUPER2, my wife was very confrontational to AAQ. Told AAQ directly that this was not acceptable behavior and that it won't be tolerated. AAQ's attitude was very dismissive, even going so far as to openly contradict my wife during this meeting. This activity is corroborated by SUPER2. At no point did my wife verbally or physically threaten AAQ. She did say "we can't have this" but at no point threatened violence nor AAQ's job. My wife was stern, and likely raised her voice, but did not approach AAQ physically.

Now that there is a new supervisor over my wife, and a new CEO, AAQ has gone to them immediately and said that my wife is threatening AAQ and that my wife supervises by "fear, intimidation, and bullying". My wife has been approached by both the new supervisor and CEO and told to tone it down, but my wife told them both that while she was probably a bit too stern in the meeting in question, that she feels that AAQ was just so taken aback by being talked to and corrected, that has led to AAQ on a campaign of retaliation. Neither CEO nor my wife's supervisor appear to be taking my wife's side.

Today, HR called my wife and said that they were scheduling a call to address a complaint they have gotten about my wife. Assuming it is from the same person.

What can be done here? I feel like my wife is really getting railroaded by AAQ and is not getting a proper outlet from either of her new supervisors, and AAQ has gained their sympathy by playing the victim. I know that this workplace is very employee-friendly, but it feels like they are only taking the perceived victim's side. Feels like this is an invalid harassment claim, but I need some advice about what my wife can do.

Sorry for the length, and thanks for any thoughts you may have. My wife fears for her job... and up until two months ago was considered a shining star. But now she can't get anyone to listen to her side.

[Logan]

A lot of moving parts there. Not really much concrete advice to offer but are any of those prior interactions documented, before the previous supervisor left? Anything would be helpful.

Best thing she can probably do is get to the meeting and lay out her case from start to finish. Calmly and without any emotion, if possible. She should be pointing out that there were seemingly no issues with her own AA prior to all the movement, and she was a shining star, etc so it should be clear that the change in circumstance led to the issues.

This line:

"When confronted about this, AAQ lied about gaining earlier approval from SUPER1 before SUPER1's departure, and also about having notified my wife and SUPER2."

Has SUPER2 backed your wife up on this?

[JonInMiddleGA]

Suggestions?

Honestly? "Prepare your resume" is exactly what I'd tell her if she were family, friend or acquaintance.

That thought crossed my mind as far back in the post as "SUPER1 quit. My wife's supervisor quit. The CEO left".

By the time you got to the end I was fairly convinced that was the eventual advice no matter what the rest of the story was.

[Logan]

Originally Posted by JonInMiddleGA

Suggestions?

Honestly? "Prepare your resume" is exactly what I'd tell her if she were family, friend or acquaintance.

That thought crossed my mind as far back in the post as "SUPER1 quit. My wife's supervisor quit. The CEO left".

By the time you got to the end I was fairly convinced that was the eventual advice no matter what the rest of the story was.

I had the same reaction, FWIW.

[Butter]

Originally Posted by JonInMiddleGA

Suggestions?

Honestly? "Prepare your resume" is exactly what I'd tell her if she were family, friend or acquaintance.

That thought crossed my mind as far back in the post as "SUPER1 quit. My wife's supervisor quit. The CEO left".

By the time you got to the end I was fairly convinced that was the eventual advice no matter what the rest of the story was.

I am starting to lean this way myself, to be honest. But I think she wants to stay and if it is one person against her, I can understand why this feels so unfair.

[Butter]

Originally Posted by Logan

A lot of moving parts there. Not really much concrete advice to offer but are any of those prior interactions documented, before the previous supervisor left? Anything would be helpful.

Best thing she can probably do is get to the meeting and lay out her case from start to finish. Calmly and without any emotion, if possible. She should be pointing out that there were seemingly no issues with her own AA prior to all the movement, and she was a shining star, etc so it should be clear that the change in circumstance led to the issues.

This line:

"When confronted about this, AAQ lied about gaining earlier approval from SUPER1 before SUPER1's departure, and also about having notified my wife and SUPER2."

Has SUPER2 backed your wife up on this?

No, no previous documentation on anything since it wasn't my wife's place to really be involved.

Yes, SUPER2 agrees on the accounting of events, but has not been approached by anyone within the company to corroborate anything. I think the need for "protecting the accuser's privacy" has led them to keep it as far under wraps as they can.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by Butter_of_69

I am starting to lean this way myself, to be honest. But I think she wants to stay and if it is one person against her, I can understand why this feels so unfair.

Oh I absolutely understand why she feels that way, not discounting that at all.

"This sucks" would be a fair assessment ... but so is the likely outcome based on my experiences over the years too :/

[rjolley]

Seems like a formal complaint was filed and HR needs to do more investigation. Privacy or not, they need to discuss the incidents with the people involved. There should be privacy, but it can only be private to a certain point.

Your wife should fully cooperate with the investigation, get that resolved, and look for a new place to work.

Why did the other people leave? Maybe it's not as great of a place to work as she thought.

[Butter]

Two of the three were health-related absences that turned into permanent absences.

[dzilla77]

You wife needs to document in detail all future exchanges with this individual and publish the meeting minutes (asking for corroboration from all attendees, including said individual.) The objective is to establish the pattern of behavior of both her and the individual.

With regard to the HR meeting, she should stick to the facts, eliminate emotion as much as possible and speak directly to the HR people, not the accuser (if they are in the meeting.)

HR has an obligation to respond to complaints and investigate, whether they think there is merit to them or not. If the complaint is found to be without merit, your wife should start documenting the shortcomings of this particular employee with the goal of terminating them.

[Butter]

Originally Posted by dzilla77

HR has an obligation to respond to complaints and investigate, whether they think there is merit to them or not. If the complaint is found to be without merit, your wife should start documenting the shortcomings of this particular employee with the goal of terminating them.

I agree with this last bit, that's exactly what I said. But couldn't this be viewed as "retaliation"?

[jeff061]

Originally Posted by JonInMiddleGA

Suggestions?

Honestly? "Prepare your resume" is exactly what I'd tell her if she were family, friend or acquaintance.

That thought crossed my mind as far back in the post as "SUPER1 quit. My wife's supervisor quit. The CEO left".

By the time you got to the end I was fairly convinced that was the eventual advice no matter what the rest of the story was.

Word for word my thoughts.

Is SUPER2 completely useless or against your wife? He/she seems to have disappeared from the equation.

[jeff061]

Also your wife probably shouldn't be confronting other managers direct reports. This shit tends to happen when you do that. Take it up with their manager to correct(hopefully) and her manager to cover ass.

[stevew]

Originally Posted by Butter_of_69

Two of the three were health-related absences that turned into permanent absences.

They were sick of dealing with bullshit?

[Dutch]

Originally Posted by jeff061

Also your wife probably shouldn't be confronting other managers direct reports. This shit tends to happen when you do that. Take it up with their manager to correct(hopefully) and her manager to cover ass.

That's a tough one, I am always willing to discuss problems if it can be corrected without incident first. It doesn't have to be a scolding, just a conversation to see where they are. Sometimes they don't realize they are rocking the boat.

[jeff061]

That can be true, but given the cold war history between the two here, nothing good was going to come out of it.

[dzilla77]

Originally Posted by Butter_of_69

I agree with this last bit, that's exactly what I said. But couldn't this be viewed as "retaliation"?

If the complaint is found to be without merit and she only documents things factually, it will not be viewed as retaliation.

[Butter]

Originally Posted by jeff061

Word for word my thoughts.

Is SUPER2 completely useless or against your wife? He/she seems to have disappeared from the equation.

SUPER2 is actually really good friends with my wife. I was telling her on the way home that she needs a lot more support from that front, and for SUPER2 to start some documentation on the stuff that has been going on that nobody knows about. If SUPER2 isn't willing to do that, then it's not helping my wife at all.

[Butter]

Originally Posted by jeff061

Also your wife probably shouldn't be confronting other managers direct reports. This shit tends to happen when you do that. Take it up with their manager to correct(hopefully) and her manager to cover ass.

I don't disagree, but in this case the form in question that was altered was my wife's "baby". So it was a little territorial. But they both confronted her in the same meeting, it's just that SUPER2 is not great at being direct and giving feedback either.

[Butter]

Originally Posted by stevew

They were sick of dealing with bullshit?

No, they were legit medical reasons.

[Butter]

Originally Posted by dzilla77

If the complaint is found to be without merit and she only documents things factually, it will not be viewed as retaliation.

So, my wife's phone call with HR... AAQ is indeed accusing her of "retaliation". My wife has actually gone out of the way to treat AAQ neutrally (saying "good morning" and "good night" to AAQ, the same as everyone else, to which AAQ does not speak to my wife), and to avoid any possible one-on-one interaction.

It's been difficult because SUPER2 was on vacation, leaving my wife as the only supervisor in office, but that week is over.

The "retaliation" claim stems from a situation where corporate needed a list of contacts for the office in case of emergency. Up until recently, AAQ had been on the list of contacts for property management. Corporate requested that all of the contacts be managers, so my wife along with SUPER2 gave them a new list of contacts that did not include AAQ because AAQ is not a manager.

AAQ went to HR saying that they are retaliating against her by taking away duties. Which in this case, the old SUPER1 never should have given AAQ in the first place. AAQ also told HR that my wife seems "angry" all the time.

My wife explained the situation, and basically told HR that if AAQ perceives her as angry, but she is actually consciously treating AAQ like everyone else, how can she change that? And also that for any future interactions with AAQ, that my wife would involve another party for her own protection. HR said that my wife shouldn't do that because it will appear that she is enlisting people to "gang up" on AAQ.

That last bit set me off a little. Seems they are far more invested in protecting the lowest level employees than they are in protecting the managers from capricious claims. I told my wife that she needs to get some clarity from both HR and her boss around this, so she can stop worrying about this and worry about her job, or she needs to look for another one.

That's where we're at as of this morning. Thanks for the thoughtful responses.

[Simbo Klice]

I'd say she should file an HR report of her own if she wants to stay. Documentation of these things is king these days, and if this other person is falsifying time cards and changing documents without authorization then lying about it, it shouldn't take too long for a case to be made for her termination.

Nobody wants to get dragged into a work feud, the CEO and other Supervisor probably will try to stay as clear of it as they can because it's not fun for anyone. However, if things are getting to this point then "live and let live" is kind of out the window, and having documentation of things from your wife's perspective is the best way for her side of the story to carry equal weight in everyone's eyes.

[Logan]

Seems like AAQ needs to get laid.

[The Jackal]

Speaking as a manager who has had an HR interaction come up from an unfounded complaint that was hard to defend and very unexpected, the biggest thing I'd recommend is documentation. If she's ever going to be giving AAQ feedback or interacting with her in a professional way, document. Follow-up with an email with HR bcc'ed. It's annoying, shouldn't be necessary, but important to show exactly what kind of message you are giving to limit the way it can be warped.

[britrock88]

First off, what fun. I feel badly for your wife. These situations aren't fun and can become relatively messy to deal with. I'll think first about how to cope with what is going on at the present time.

Originally Posted by dzilla77

HR has an obligation to respond to complaints and investigate, whether they think there is merit to them or not..

Originally Posted by rjolley

Your wife should fully cooperate with the investigation, get that resolved (and look for a new place to work(.

These two quotations (with my minor edit to the second) basically summarize what needs to happen now. Your wife should understand that HR is carrying out its duty to investigate, and tell the truth calmly--give HR tons of background information about how this relationship soured based on the actions of AAQ, explain how all of the actions that are perceived retaliation were made in keeping with company policy, so on.

Now, two observations: if your wife was so concerned about AAQ in the first place, she probably should have taken the opportunity to supervise her with an eye toward coaching AAQ up or out, but that's water under the bridge. Second, what bullsh*t that AAQ didn't follow the chain of command and brought her grievances to your wife's supervisors as opposed to SUPER2.

That said, your wife's responsibility for being in this situation boils down to this quotation:

Originally Posted by jeff061

Also your wife probably shouldn't be confronting other managers direct reports. This shit tends to happen when you do that. Take it up with their manager to correct(hopefully) and her manager to cover ass.

That said, this is the kind of complaint that decent mid-/upper management and HR should hopefully figure out is a defensive reaction to an attempt at actual supervision. I know people are fallible enough that we can't trust that to be the outcome in every case, but how often should management side with an admin over a supervisor in an instance like this, when there's just a bad working relationship? Sheesh.

[jeff061]

If SUPER2 was showing any support whatsoever for Wife, I don't think this would be an issue. Lack of support from SUPER2 is likely what gives needs-to-get-laid "office manager" credibility.