When Do You Treat Your Adult Child Like An Adult !

[mtolson]

My wife and I are at great odds surrounding her 22 year old daughter. She has been a great source of contention between the two of use as we don't see eye to eye on her living arrangements. Two years ago she got involved with a dude that got her pregnant while she was in her last year of school and became abuse, causing her to break her leg and ankle. I was very supportive of her then and helped her out as much as I could. She ended up having a miscarriage and was able to graduate from school on time. Now, she is back home from school and pregnant AGAIN by someone else !!!!! This time, she brought a dog with her that I was extremely vocal about not bringing into the house before she even brought the dog in the first place. We have 14 and 16 year old's and I have told them on multiple occasions NO to pets. Just to much work to take care of and treat properly for our lifestyle. My family room is now turned into the dog sitting parlor and my wife doesn't seem to think she should be held accountable for anything. Any discussion just result in a huge argument. The girl has a job and makes more money then my wife (40+ K). But everytime I go out to grab something to eat I am expected to pay for her meals, if she leaves her car on E in the driveway and I have to move it I am expected to go get gas for her. When I object I get the "I'll just do it myself" attitude from my wife.

I am at the point where I am ready to just call it quits because I know that once the baby is born things will be totally out of control. The 14 and 16 basically come home and play on the 360 in the basement or just stay up in their rooms. For the past 2 years they have had nothing but drama go on in the house !

How much would you guy's tolerate or am I just being a AH ?

[Drake]

Sounds to me like your wife is more of the problem than your daughter, though I'd be willing to bet that much of the reason your daughter has had the troubles she has has to do with being overly coddled by your wife.

My advice: Buy a gun and shoot the dog. Don't explain why.

Everyone else should fall into line pretty quickly after that.

Edit to add: For the record, I moved out a month after I turned 18, and other than occasional financial help from Dad when my car broke down or something like that, I've been completely independent for the last 20 years, including putting myself through college. All of my siblings did the same thing, and our family has always been extremely close. We just knew when we were finished with high school that it meant it was time to grow up and be responsible for ourselves.

[Drake]

Paragraph 2 of the post above is probably unreliable advice.

[sabotai]

Originally Posted by mtolson

How much would you guy's tolerate or am I just being a AH ?

As someone who has had and been around pets his whole life, you're an "AH" about the no pets rule.

Everything else is so far beyond the call of duty. Where is the future father in all of this?

[st.cronin]

Originally Posted by Drake

Sounds to me like your wife is more of the problem than your daughter, though I'd be willing to bet that much of the reason your daughter has had the troubles she has has to do with being overly coddled by your wife.

Pretty much sums up my intuitive reaction.

[Karlifornia]

One day when she comes home, you could be sitting on the couch with peanut butter smothered all over your privates and have a cigarette lit up. Take a big drag, smile, and say "I could really get used to this dog idea."

[mtolson]

Originally Posted by sabotai

As someone who has had and been around pets his whole life, you're an "AH" about the no pets rule.

I figured I had that one coming from dog lovers. I too had dogs all my youth and I know exactly how much of a responsibility they are and how much fun they can be. With that said, the dog pee's all over everything because she doesn't train him properly, he eats up lights cords, jumps up on everyone that enters the houses, runs out the front door whenever possible chasing kids down the street and remains locked up in a cage for most of the day and at night when she just wants to lay around and sleep or go out to clubs. She has pissed of my neighbors because she has let him pop in there yards.

That's not how I treated my dogs and precisely why I don't need to have one right now. My 14 and 16 are very active in school sports and I have a hard enough time keeping track of them.

Sorry dog lovers, I don't mean to offend you all.

[MikeVic]

Key question: is she hot?


No, just kidding, kind of. It does sound like your wife coddles her too much.

[mtolson]

Originally Posted by st.cronin

Pretty much sums up my intuitive reaction.

Both of you are very correct. The problem is that I don't know how to get around it and I am growing very tired of being miserable every day of the week. I am about ready to just tell her keep the house if she thinks she can afford it or to just leave and I will take care of the kids (as I have pretty much have done in the first place !).

[mtolson]

Originally Posted by Drake

My advice: Buy a gun and shoot the dog. Don't explain why.

Everyone else should fall into line pretty quickly after that.

LOL.

I too moved out at an early age and only returned when I was having a house built that wouldn't be ready before I sold the old one. To me, that's the type of things parents due once you become an adult.

[mtolson]

Originally Posted by sabotai

Everything else is so far beyond the call of duty. Where is the future father in all of this?

Living with his mom and dad, who let her come over and spend the night whenever she wants, which is how she probably got pregnant in the first damn place. I don't tolerate that in my house. You want visitors, you get your own place.

[Cringer]

Honestly I think your wife is pretty wrong on this one. I have the ask, how long of the daughter's life have you been around? Sounds like your wife takes an attitude that you have no say when it comes to her kid (or kids? not sure if the others are yours or not...)

Anyways, if you honestly feel like you are kind of stuck, I would go pro-active with that dog big time. It is NOT too late to train it. If it is going to be left alone a good amount and it is pissing and chewing up stuff, buy a crate for it and start working with the dog to get it somewhat trained at the least. If the dog is not going anywhere then it will make your life easier. OR, you could give the dog easy access to something your wife would hate to have destroyed and hope the dog chews it up while you are gone.

As for the paying for her stuff when she holds down a good job....yikes. Can't help you with that one.

[Mustang]

Your relationship with your wife is the problem. Sounds like you are at odds with what should go on in the house with the kids.

[nilodor]

I agree with most of the sentiment here, as long as you and your wife aren't on the same page your daughter will always have an out. If you can't get her on board, then it's time to shoot the dog...

[JediKooter]

Not my place to say it, but, you brought it up first...Have you guys discussed birth control with her at all? It's free/cheap at most planned parenthood places. A little late for this one, but, I sure would hate to this thread sometime in the fall of 09 that you spend a couple hundred dollars a month on food and formula and she has number two on the way.

That aside, she's an adult, she made her decisions, you as parents shouldn't be paying for them, however there seems to be two different levels of 'parental responsibility' that you and your wife are on. Until that is solved, everything else is going to be a struggle with your step daughter.

From what you have said, I do not think you are being out of line.

Personally, I'd tell your step daughter that she has until a certain date to be in her own place or she has to start paying rent. (Hint...charge her more than what it would cost for her to rent her own place).

Tough situation man, good luck.

[Logan]

(prays for only sons)

[Matthean]

Originally Posted by Logan

(prays for only sons)

Both of my older brothers had kids out of wedlock and actually never married the girls either...

It's times like these where I'm glad I'm part of a guy's group in my church. They would be kicking my butt for something like this. Even my parents who believe you can't out give God and have given me way more grace for stuff than I deserve would have no part of this. Give your daughter 2-4 weeks to be moved. After that period, the locks get changed and the daughter isn't getting a new key. If the wife wants to help out by babysitting their granddaughter, then fine. Honestly, you lost your household and until you get it back it's only going down the current path, or getting worse(points at the younger kids).

[flere-imsaho]

Originally Posted by mtolson

Sorry dog lovers, I don't mean to offend you all.

Well, sabotai did use a smiley.

Speaking as a dog lover, though, I wish more people made the kind of decision you did. If you (the generalized you, not you specifically) can't take good care of a dog (or any pet), then don't get one.


As for the more serious issue, I would honestly recommend you and your wife go to counseling now before everyone ends up in court later.

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

My only shock is that these kinds of things are still allowed to happen in households. She should be out of the house at this point. If she's not willing to do that, she pays monthly rent. In addition, if she stays in the house and you continue to pay for food for her, she should pay a certain amount in food costs. For example, she pays $500 in rent and $250 in food costs every month as long as she stays in your house. Not only will it test her will to continue living with you, it will open the eyes of your 14 and 16 year old daughters relatively quickly to what will happen if they follow a similar path. In some sense, laying down the law right now is almost more important in shaping the future of your younger daughters.

As far as the baby, the option of daycare by your wife is a great alternative. It saves your daughter a lot of money in daycare costs to the point where she should be able to get her own place and still make ends meet.

Also, from a relationship perspective, you're just as responsible for your wife in this situation. She may be the one enabling, but you're the one that didn't nip this in the butt sooner to avoid the situation. You all should definitely go to relationship counseling to resolve each of your problems and provide a unified path for all of your daughters going forward.

[wade moore]

Originally Posted by flere-imsaho

As for the more serious issue, I would honestly recommend you and your wife go to counseling now before everyone ends up in court later.

Yeah.

I don't have kids, but this seems pretty clearly an issue between you and your wife more than an issue with the daughter. It seems that you are about ready to leave and as far as I can tell you haven't even talked the issue out in a "real" way. A professional seems like a good place to start.


On a side note. I do notice you call her "her daughter". This seems odd if you've been together for the 16 or whatever years with the other children. That points to something as well imo.

[lordscarlet]

Counseling was going to be my suggestion. And the problem is with your wife and you, and the way you view the children (hint: you are right. ). But, a counselor can maybe put it in perspective for her and help the two of you figure out how to handle this together.

[Schmidty]

Originally Posted by wade moore

On a side note. I do notice you call her "her daughter". This seems odd if you've been together for the 16 or whatever years with the other children. That points to something as well imo.

Yeah. As a person who married a woman with a child (had just turned 2 years old), I can't understand the whole "her kid" thing. I love my daughter as if she were my own, and can't imagine not loving and supporting her through thick and thin. I'm sure that's how you're wife feels. I'm not judging you, I just can't understand your position with regard to "her" daughter. Maybe the fact that my daughter has never known another dad than me makes it easier for me to grab hold of the role.

Having said all that, your wife is definitely wrong. I can see myself being mad if my daughter was acting the same way. I can't say if I'd be a bit more like your wife as far as enabling (I hope not), but looking at it from the outside, your feelings about the situation are very legit. Your wife needs to learn what tough love is.

My advice - charge her rent if she won't leave and charge a huge premium for the dog. If the dog keeps getting in other people's yards, call animal control. No one has to know it was you. Also, I would talk to your wife in a calm logical manner and at least try to hammer out a plan of action. Even if you don't really love the daughter, try to give the impression that you do. That might make your wife more willing to work with you. I would do the same thing with the daughter.

This sounds terrible, but it seems like you have three options: 1) Be manipulative to get what you want, 2) bow to the will of your wife, or 3) get a separation/divorce. I'm sure you don't want to do the two latter things, so I would be a honey-tongued, sneaky bastard.

[Schmidty]

Dola.

Other people's suggestions for counseling is definitely good advice too.

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

Originally Posted by lordscarlet

Counseling was going to be my suggestion. And the problem is with your wife and you, and the way you view the children (hint: you are right. ). But, a counselor can maybe put it in perspective for her and help the two of you figure out how to handle this together.

Just as a sidenote, it doesn't matter if he's right in regards to the situation if he's not handling it in the best manner.

I had some issues with a nutty in-law. I ran the situation by EF27 and he suggested counseling. Long story short, while I was correct in regards to the in-law, the way I was handling it in regards to my discussions with my wife was totally wrong. Once the counselor gave me the tools to give my side of the story to my wife without pissing her off, I suddenly gained an ally in my wife and quickly resolved the problem. Counseling can do a world of good and it doesn't even take that long to figure out the issues and resolve them if done right.

[sterlingice]

Originally Posted by Schmidty

I'm sure you don't want to do the two latter things, so I would be a honey-tongued, sneaky bastard.

Sorry, this line cracks me up

SI

[CamEdwards]

I have a 22-year old step-daughter who (thankfully) is not pregnant. That being said, if she moves home after she graduates in May '09, she will be paying rent.

If we don't treat our grown children as adults, we can't be surprised when they don't see themselves as adults.

Definitely would recommend marriage counseling, and you might think about family counseling as well.

Oh, and I have no problem telling her that regardless of anything else, she needs to find a loving home for the dog, because your house isn't it.

[Eaglesfan27]

Originally Posted by CamEdwards

If we don't treat our grown children as adults, we can't be surprised when they don't see themselves as adults.

Completely agreed. My wife's brother has gotten himself discharged from the military and wanted to move in with us. She wanted to do it, I said I was willing to give him a chance (even though I had grave reservations because of his past) but he would have to pay fair market value rent for a room in a house like ours. Not surprisingly, he decided to rent his own place for a similar price where he will at least have his privacy.

[Marc Vaughan]

If we don't treat our grown children as adults, we can't be surprised when they don't see themselves as adults.

I agree wholeheartedly ..

I treat my daughter as an adult the majority of the time presently and she's 14 - she has responsibilities around the house and has to do a 'fair share' of things, she also has to budget from the money she gets each week to buy clothes and suchlike, if she wants to go out and have fun with her friends she has to make sure she saves enough for that also etc.

Yeah she's young - but one day she's going to leave home and if we don't teach her the basics now then it'll be much harder for her in the future imho.

(tbat being said I've been very lucky in that my daughter is incredibly level headed and hard working by nature ....)

[Bigsmooth]

The first thing I would do is to convince her to abort that mofo, if it's not too late.

[lordscarlet]

Originally Posted by Mizzou B-ball fan

Just as a sidenote, it doesn't matter if he's right in regards to the situation if he's not handling it in the best manner.

I had some issues with a nutty in-law. I ran the situation by EF27 and he suggested counseling. Long story short, while I was correct in regards to the in-law, the way I was handling it in regards to my discussions with my wife was totally wrong. Once the counselor gave me the tools to give my side of the story to my wife without pissing her off, I suddenly gained an ally in my wife and quickly resolved the problem. Counseling can do a world of good and it doesn't even take that long to figure out the issues and resolve them if done right.

Yes, of course. I was trying to add some brevity to a very serious situation.

It sounds like he is on the verge of wanting to leave -- this definitely means it is a situation that requires outside, professional help.

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

Originally Posted by lordscarlet

Yes, of course. I was trying to add some brevity to a very serious situation.

It sounds like he is on the verge of wanting to leave -- this definitely means it is a situation that requires outside, professional help.

Agreed. It seems like this is a very managable situation if a counselor is available to lead them through it. Some guidance would do wonders.

[RendeR]

walk in some night with a 12 guage


"I'm sorry honey, but its time we put the tramp down..."

"you can't shoot the DOG?"

"OH I'm not gonna shoot the dog, he's going to the SPCA, I'm putting the girl down, she's a lost cause. Now you can sit there calmly while I settle all this, or... you can join her."

[Sgran]

Well, the first thing I would do is get some advice from the members of FOFC. That way, when you discuss the issue with your wife you can start with, "yeah, well the guys on my football simulation discussion board said..."

[Sgran]

But seriously, I think you need to clear the air. I would invite the whole family (even the teens) for a powwow where everyone is given a chance to express their feelings without interruption. You need to start and be as honest as possible, including admitting that you're not completely proud of your own feelings, but some things are burning you up and you can't take it much longer. Then shut up, fight the urge to fold your arms against your chest, and let all four of them say their piece while you actively listen.

[MikeVic]

test

[Klinglerware]

Originally Posted by Sgran

Well, the first thing I would do is get some advice from the members of FOFC. That way, when you discuss the issue with your wife you can start with, "yeah, well the guys on my football simulation discussion board said..."

Yeah, it's a fake football discussion board, but at least it's fake football that overemphasizes academics...

[JPhillips]

Originally Posted by Marc Vaughan

I agree wholeheartedly ..

I treat my daughter as an adult the majority of the time presently and she's 14 - she has responsibilities around the house and has to do a 'fair share' of things, she also has to budget from the money she gets each week to buy clothes and suchlike, if she wants to go out and have fun with her friends she has to make sure she saves enough for that also etc.

Yeah she's young - but one day she's going to leave home and if we don't teach her the basics now then it'll be much harder for her in the future imho.

(tbat being said I've been very lucky in that my daughter is incredibly level headed and hard working by nature ....)

Well that's great and all, but why don't you teach her some useful skills like how to code a Blood Bowl text sim.

[Drake]

Originally Posted by JPhillips

Well that's great and all, but why don't you teach her some useful skills like how to code a Blood Bowl text sim.

Word.

We could also use a decent cricket sim.

[Anthony]

in times like these its best to remember the old saying "you have no one to blame but yourself".

you must be a nice guy, one that doesn't want to rock the boat or ruffle feathers. that's the world you created for yourself and the world you live in.

i always say "he who has the purse strings makes all the rules". apparently your stepdaughter makes more than you, so that adage doesn't work. you need to take on a different approach - "he who is willing to take things to the next level gets to make all the rules". i may not be the richest guy in the room, but my wife knows who makes the rules. i don't hit my wife but i've displayed enough of a wild behavior to establish myself as the alpha male in the house. tearing a door off its hinges during an arguement with your own hands will tend to make people think twice before crossing you too hard.

you are the sucker if you get into a car that someone else has left without gas and you pay for it. you are the sucker if you have a no-pets rule and you allow someone who lives at your house when it's convenient for them to bring a dog in. don't blame others for your ineptness.

[Raiders Army]

At first I was confused as I thought molson posted this. Then I was confused as to how she is 22 but two years ago she was in her last year of school.

Since she has problems getting pregnant, I'd start off by giving her condoms or that vaginal ring thing I see on commercials during football games. Other than that, make her pay rent if she's living with you and let her do what she wants.

[lordscarlet]

Originally Posted by Anthony

in times like these its best to remember the old saying "you have no one to blame but yourself".

you must be a nice guy, one that doesn't want to rock the boat or ruffle feathers. that's the world you created for yourself and the world you live in.

i always say "he who has the purse strings makes all the rules". apparently your stepdaughter makes more than you, so that adage doesn't work. you need to take on a different approach - "he who is willing to take things to the next level gets to make all the rules". i may not be the richest guy in the room, but my wife knows who makes the rules. i don't hit my wife but i've displayed enough of a wild behavior to establish myself as the alpha male in the house. tearing a door off its hinges during an arguement with your own hands will tend to make people think twice before crossing you too hard.

you are the sucker if you get into a car that someone else has left without gas and you pay for it. you are the sucker if you have a no-pets rule and you allow someone who lives at your house when it's convenient for them to bring a dog in. don't blame others for your ineptness.

Wow, yes. Clearly displaced rage and aggression are the secret to a happy marriage.

[jeff061]

Originally Posted by lordscarlet

Wow, yes. Clearly displaced rage and aggression are the secret to a happy marriage.

It all depends on the size of your unit.

And I'd like to say being in the same position she'd be following my own rules and paying rent or kicked out. But I don't have kids and for that reason I really didn't want to answer.

[lynchjm24]

Originally Posted by Anthony

don't hit my wife but i've displayed enough of a wild behavior to establish myself as the alpha male in the house.

It must be hard to be the alpha male when you are the only male.

[Drake]

He's not the only male. His son is cute as a button.

[Mustang]

Originally Posted by lordscarlet

Wow, yes. Clearly displaced rage and aggression are the secret to a happy marriage.

I beat my chest and throw feces around the room to show my dominance.

[mtolson]

Thanks for all the reply's (well, most of them). To answer some questions:

1) The use of "her daughter" was more of an emphasis as to how I think my wife views the relationship. She only our daughter until I say or do something she doesn't agree with. She's our daughter when I pay for her student loans. She's our daughter when I give her a car. She's our daughter when she needs me to help her with the research paper. She's our daughter when she wanted to come home for the weekend and her mother was to tired to go get her. She our daughter when I think you get the point.

2) When I said she was 22 and last year just graduated it was from college.

3) sorry molson, we are going to always be confused !

4) She has never had a relationship with her father. She has lived with me since she was 5 years old. My family took her in as she was our own. I have always treated her like I was her father. However, the relationship always seems to be "he's just made because he not your real father" anytime she couldn't get her way. My wife views respect differently than I. My youngest were raised to respect from the get go and I have NEVER had a problem with them. With the youngest it's not even a question about what happens. What I say goes. They both understand and respect that. I have never been challenged by either of the youngest. They are very mindful and respective kids. The 22 year is just the opposite.

5) A agree that I am partly the problem because I let it happen. It's not that I haven't tried. I do consider myself a nice guy and this is a fault to a certain degree that I just don't know how not to be that way. I try to avoid conflict when possible because it general results in a pitty-party for the oldest, no communication and the youngest feeling bad. I guess my desire to keep a peaceful house is viewed as a weakness.

6) I have tried to talk with my wife. Just recently I did a lot of research on the web regarding treating your adult child like a adult and wanted to discuss it with her. Most of it is exactly what you guys talk about. As soon as I brought up the topic the eye's started rolling and we didn't talk to each other for 2 days. My wife's opinion is that I am just anti-everything with the 22 year old and don't act the same with the 14 and 16. She doesn't want to acknowledge that the 14 and 16 do exactly as they are told and respect what I say and don't challenge me. The 22 has challenged me at every chance because she knows Mom has got her back and I will eventually cave, which I did way to much of in my effort to keep peace and not have my youngest around constant contention. That was my fault big time.

7) I came to the forum because I thought I would get an un-biased opinion and possible thoughts from someone else who has been through this. If I talk to my family they say cut them both loose as I have already bent over backwards for both of them.

Communication is (and always has been) a big problem because with the 22 year old my wife has always acted like she was in charge and anything that I said that she didn't like could be ignored. She doesn't act that way at all with the 14 and 16 year old.

Obviously there is a lot more behind the scenes that would take me decades to write, but I just wanted to see how some of my fellow parents would treat a 22 year living under their roof.

Sadly, if I were put in the situation again I don't think I would date someone with a young child unless the father was in the picture. I know I am probably jaded but I just feel like I am in a complete no win situation. This may sound cruel, but if the Mom is not going to accept your role as a parent it makes for a very difficult relationship.

[mtolson]

Originally Posted by Anthony

in times like these its best to remember the old saying "you have no one to blame but yourself".

you must be a nice guy, one that doesn't want to rock the boat or ruffle feathers. that's the world you created for yourself and the world you live in.

i always say "he who has the purse strings makes all the rules". apparently your stepdaughter makes more than you, so that adage doesn't work. you need to take on a different approach - "he who is willing to take things to the next level gets to make all the rules". i may not be the richest guy in the room, but my wife knows who makes the rules. i don't hit my wife but i've displayed enough of a wild behavior to establish myself as the alpha male in the house. tearing a door off its hinges during an arguement with your own hands will tend to make people think twice before crossing you too hard.

you are the sucker if you get into a car that someone else has left without gas and you pay for it. you are the sucker if you have a no-pets rule and you allow someone who lives at your house when it's convenient for them to bring a dog in. don't blame others for your ineptness.

Agree and disagree to a point.

She makes more than my wife but no where near what I make. The gas thing didn't happen like you may think. I moved her car out the way of my wife's car as I was going to drive it to save some mileage on mine. While I was warming it up I came back in the house and made a comment to my wife that she purposely parked behind her because she was out of gas. My wife really didn't have much to say. I then went to the store and came back. When I got back my wife asked me if I was going back out. When I stated yes, she hit me with the "could I take her car and put some gas in it." I just gave this look like "you have got to be kidding." Before I could say a word she was rolling her eyes and saying " just forget it, I'll do it myself " which she did as there was no way in hell I was going to put gas in her car.

Your right with the sucker part.

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

Originally Posted by mtolson

Before I could say a word she was rolling her eyes and saying " just forget it, I'll do it myself " which she did as there was no way in hell I was going to put gas in her car.

That's a clear demonstration of undermining behavior. If you and your wife can't get on the same page, this isn't going to get resolved. In regards to your wife, I would mention that she likely doesn't even fully recognize how destructive those kinds of actions are from a relationship/parenting standpoint. She's just thinks she's taking care of her kid.

[sterlingice]

Originally Posted by Mustang

I beat my chest and throw feces around the room to show my dominance.

SI

[wade moore]

I will repeat - you guys need a professional.