Silly legal question

miked · 08-02-2005, 01:22 PM

I have a legal question for some of you knowledgable people out there. It's not FOF specific, but I'll use it as an example. Would one be allowed to run an online league using FOF and charge people to take part? Like they don't own the game and just send you moves, etc, and it costs like $15/season. Don't worry Jim, I'm just trying to see if one is allowed to make money off the product of another.

rkmsuf · 08-02-2005, 01:22 PM

the word you are looking for is "hypothetically"

Raiders Army · 08-02-2005, 01:23 PM

This sounds like some serious tomfoolery to me.

Cringer · 08-02-2005, 01:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rkmsuf

the word you are looking for is "hypothetically"

I "hypothetically" roll my eyes at you.

As for the question in the post I don't know, but there is an FOF league like that I do believe.

John Galt · 08-02-2005, 01:35 PM

I'm really not sure, but I think it would depend on 1) the language of the end user agreement and 2) if the language is relevant, the enforcability of that language. But, I'm really not knowledgable in this area.

miked · 08-02-2005, 01:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Raiders Army

This sounds like some serious tomfoolery to me.

Crazy tomfoolery! I should have used hypothetically, but I didn't feel like looking it up on dictionary.com to make sure I got it right

Actually, a friend of mine wanted to do sort of an online gaming site where people can play all different kinds of games without actually owning the game (like TPF, BBMogul, etc...) and just charge people to do all the work. He just wasn't sure about the legality of making money off other people's products like that.

I wish I had that kind of time.

wade moore · 08-02-2005, 03:19 PM

Now THAT I would think would have a lot of legal issues...

If you were to have a site that gave tools to FACILITATE running a league (i.e. if VPI wanted to package the IHOF code so that you could plug in your league and it would make all of the web stuff, etc) that would be fine.. but you're actually talking bypassing buying the game.. uh-uh...

gottimd · 08-02-2005, 03:22 PM

Tomfoolery or just shanninagans?

gstelmack · 08-02-2005, 03:27 PM

It's an interesting hypothetical, since you actually need the FOF game to take part, or if you are planning to enter all those moves by hand you have some SERIOUS work cut out for you.

There could also be a legal difference between selling a league where the owners have paid Jim his due, and selling a league where the point is to AVOID giving Jim his due.

miked · 08-02-2005, 03:31 PM

It is interesting, since the point of the league I suppose wouldn't be to sell the league to avoid giving the developer his due, it would be to make money for oneself. I wish I had that amount of time, but I have no idea how it would work. I just told him I'd try and dig up some info. I would imagine that proving intent to not give the developer his due would be tough to prove since people can say they wouldn't buy the game anyway. I have seen online leagues that don't require the game, but I guess the line is crossed when you charge for it...

gottimd · 08-02-2005, 03:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by miked

I have a legal question for some of you knowledgable people out there. It's not FOF specific, but I'll use it as an example. Would one be allowed to run an online league using FOF and charge people to take part? Like they don't own the game and just send you moves, etc, and it costs like $15/season. Don't worry Jim, I'm just trying to see if one is allowed to make money off the product of another.

Out of curiousity, if you are charging these people $15/dollars a season, do they know that after 2 seasons you are profiting, and that they can basically buy the game and run an online league for fun? Am I missing something here? Beetlejuice, Beetlejuice, Beetlejuice.

miked · 08-02-2005, 03:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by gottimd

Out of curiousity, if you are charging these people $15/dollars a season, do they know that after 2 seasons you are profiting, and that they can basically buy the game and run an online league for fun? Am I missing something here? Beetlejuice, Beetlejuice, Beetlejuice.

Well I suppose this would be targeted to people who don't have the game or who don't want to learn all the ins and outs. I really have no idea, as he was talking about several different games. I guess I should just tell him to read the license agreement, though that can be quite daunting sometimes.

Raiders Army · 08-02-2005, 03:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by miked

Well I suppose this would be targeted to people who don't have the game or who don't want to learn all the ins and outs. I really have no idea, as he was talking about several different games. I guess I should just tell him to read the license agreement, though that can be quite daunting sometimes.

So, you're asking for your friend?

BigJohn&TheLions · 08-02-2005, 03:56 PM

Sounds like a load of BS to me.

Although, a league with a pot might be fun...

$10 per season to play. Due before the draft.

The commish holds the pot via paypal.

Winner takes all ($320.)

I don't think anything would be wrong with this, so long as the commish was trustworthy.

gottimd · 08-02-2005, 03:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BigJohn&TheLions

Sounds like a load of BS to me.

Although, a league with a pot might be fun...

$10 per season to play. Due before the draft.

The commish holds the pot via paypal.

Winner takes all ($320.)

I don't think anything would be wrong with this, so long as the commish was trustworthy.

Yeah, that I can understand. Just like any fantasy football league. I just don't get the whole, "pay for you to play it".

BigJohn&TheLions · 08-02-2005, 04:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by gottimd

I just don't get the whole, "pay for you to play it".

I do. It's a way of making money off someone else. He should just go all the way and start bootlegging the game. I wonder how Jim would feel about the legality of his idea...

gottimd · 08-02-2005, 05:49 PM

I am gonna try to get on the Madden forums and ask everyone to send me money, so I can play the game and run a league. That way I can just tell them the results and they don't ever have to learn the game or enjoy playing it. What should I charge?

Raiders Army · 08-02-2005, 06:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by gottimd

I am gonna try to get on the Madden forums and ask everyone to send me money, so I can play the game and run a league. That way I can just tell them the results and they don't ever have to learn the game or enjoy playing it. What should I charge?

One hour with their girlfriends.

Wait...we're talking about joystick jockeys...

timmynausea · 08-02-2005, 06:27 PM

This is a genius idea. You can do it for anything! I'm going to start doing it for movies. For a small fee I will go see a movie for you and tell you what happened, maybe quote a couple funny parts. You can get the gist of seeing the movie without wasting all that time watching it.

08-02-2005, 01:22 PM	#2
rkmsuf Head Coach Join Date: Dec 2001	the word you are looking for is "hypothetically" __________________ "Don't you have homes?" -- Judge Smales

08-02-2005, 01:35 PM	#5
John Galt Pro Starter Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: The Internets	I'm really not sure, but I think it would depend on 1) the language of the end user agreement and 2) if the language is relevant, the enforcability of that language. But, I'm really not knowledgable in this area. __________________ I do mind, the Dude minds. This will not stand, ya know, this aggression will not stand, man. - The Dude

08-02-2005, 03:22 PM	#8
gottimd Dearly Missed (9/25/77-12/23/08) Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: DC Suburbs	Tomfoolery or just shanninagans? __________________ NAFL New Orleans Saints GM/Co-Commish MP Career Record: 114-85 NAFL Super Bowl XI Champs In memory of Gavin Anthony: 7/22/08-7/26/08

08-02-2005, 03:27 PM	#9
gstelmack Pro Starter Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: Cary, NC	It's an interesting hypothetical, since you actually need the FOF game to take part, or if you are planning to enter all those moves by hand you have some SERIOUS work cut out for you. There could also be a legal difference between selling a league where the owners have paid Jim his due, and selling a league where the point is to AVOID giving Jim his due. __________________ -- Greg -- Author of various FOF utilities

08-02-2005, 03:56 PM	#14
BigJohn&TheLions College Benchwarmer Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: New York	Sounds like a load of BS to me. Although, a league with a pot might be fun... $10 per season to play. Due before the draft. The commish holds the pot via paypal. Winner takes all ($320.) I don't think anything would be wrong with this, so long as the commish was trustworthy. __________________ In the immortal words of a great alcoholic, "Can't we all just get along?"

08-02-2005, 01:23 PM	#3
Raiders Army Coordinator Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: The Black Hole	This sounds like some serious tomfoolery to me.

08-02-2005, 03:31 PM	#10
miked College Starter Join Date: Jun 2001 Location: The Dirty	It is interesting, since the point of the league I suppose wouldn't be to sell the league to avoid giving the developer his due, it would be to make money for oneself. I wish I had that amount of time, but I have no idea how it would work. I just told him I'd try and dig up some info. I would imagine that proving intent to not give the developer his due would be tough to prove since people can say they wouldn't buy the game anyway. I have seen online leagues that don't require the game, but I guess the line is crossed when you charge for it...

08-02-2005, 05:49 PM	#17
gottimd Dearly Missed (9/25/77-12/23/08) Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: DC Suburbs	I am gonna try to get on the Madden forums and ask everyone to send me money, so I can play the game and run a league. That way I can just tell them the results and they don't ever have to learn the game or enjoy playing it. What should I charge? __________________ NAFL New Orleans Saints GM/Co-Commish MP Career Record: 114-85 NAFL Super Bowl XI Champs In memory of Gavin Anthony: 7/22/08-7/26/08

08-02-2005, 06:27 PM	#19
timmynausea College Starter Join Date: Dec 2002	This is a genius idea. You can do it for anything! I'm going to start doing it for movies. For a small fee I will go see a movie for you and tell you what happened, maybe quote a couple funny parts. You can get the gist of seeing the movie without wasting all that time watching it.

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