Ping: Legal/techie types (Libel in emails)

Rizon · 11-12-2009, 09:16 AM

Recently a situation came up at work where someone sent an anonymous email to our entire customer base slandering my boss. Without getting into the details of it, and because of the position in my company, I know these accusations to be 100% false.
The email came from a private domain created on Nov 9.

1) What can be done legally at this point to defend my boss?

2) What can be done (legally) to track down the individual who purchased this domain?

DaddyTorgo · 11-12-2009, 09:20 AM

wowzers

Toddzilla · 11-12-2009, 09:43 AM

email, pls

spleen1015 · 11-12-2009, 09:51 AM

You're like OJ, man! Do the deed, then lead the crusade to find the criminal. That's awesome!

Rizon · 11-12-2009, 09:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Toddzilla

email, pls

PMd

Mustang · 11-12-2009, 10:00 AM

I'm no lawyer, I would hope your company has one for this case, but first thing I would do is do a whois on the domain to see if they were stupid enough to register it to themselves and have their name listed.

Did the email just libel your boss or did it include the company? Depending on what was said and that it was sent to customer's of the company, I'd imagine it would be attacked from 2 fronts.

Rizon · 11-12-2009, 10:00 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by spleen1015

You're like OJ, man! Do the deed, then lead the crusade to find the criminal. That's awesome!

Haha, pretty much, but minus the white girl and murder.

Rizon · 11-12-2009, 10:01 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mustang

I'm no lawyer, I would hope your company has one for this case, but first thing I would do is do a whois on the domain to see if they were stupid enough to register it to themselves and have their name listed.

Did the email just libel your boss or did it include the company? Depending on what was said and that it was sent to customer's of the company, I'd imagine it would be attacked from 2 fronts.

It libeled my boss, a Board of Director (specifically named) and our entire Board (named as a group).

We think we know who it is, and if it's that person or one of their cronies, it complicates this quite a bit.

Mustang · 11-12-2009, 10:08 AM

On a separate note, it makes me giggle that someone asking about libel in email has a big ole 'Fuck Ted Ginn' on his signature. (Not that I think that is libel, I just find it humorous)

Rizon · 11-12-2009, 10:10 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mustang

On a separate note, it makes me giggle that someone asking about libel in email has a big ole 'Fuck Ted Ginn' on his signature. (Not that I think that is libel, I just find it humorous)

LOL ... it's for sure not Libel that I think Tedd Ginn is a shitty receiver, cause that's the truth

(funny thing is I can't see my signature most of the time

)

Toddzilla · 11-12-2009, 10:36 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Toddzilla

email, pls

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rizon

PMd

Sorry - my bad - I meant to say "post the slanderous email"

Rizon · 11-12-2009, 10:41 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Toddzilla

Sorry - my bad - I meant to say "post the slanderous email"

Ohhh, haha. Yeah, I don't think I should post it, too much confidential stuff.

DanGarion · 11-12-2009, 11:16 AM

Well it is a fact that Al Davis sucks ass and is a terrible owner, so I don't really see much libel in that...

JediKooter · 11-12-2009, 12:04 PM

Playing devil's advocate here:

If someone is expressing their opinions and not as fact, I think it would be hard to pursue the libel angle. I also think there are certain criteria that it has to meet to be considered libel (not 100% sure on this). It may piss you off and may seem bad and the way it was done looks bad, but, was it really libel?

However, how did this person get everyone's email addresses? If they were obtained via hacking or some other non legal way, that could be something to add to this person's newly found problems.

Rizon · 11-12-2009, 12:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JediKooter

Playing devil's advocate here:

If someone is expressing their opinions and not as fact, I think it would be hard to pursue the libel angle. I also think there are certain criteria that it has to meet to be considered libel (not 100% sure on this). It may piss you off and may seem bad and the way it was done looks bad, but, was it really libel?

However, how did this person get everyone's email addresses? If they were obtained via hacking or some other non legal way, that could be something to add to this person's newly found problems.

Yeah, it was (imo) Libel. None of what was written was stated as opinion, it was straight out accusatory of "illegal" activity and "theft/stealing" as well as saying some documents were "fraudulent" and "missuse of credit cards." Since I'm the accountant for the company, I know for a fact that none of this is true.

As far as the list ... if it's who we think it is, then that person would have had access to the list (legit) at some point in the last couple of years.

JediKooter · 11-12-2009, 12:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rizon

Yeah, it was (imo) Libel. None of what was written was stated as opinion, it was straight out accusatory of "illegal" activity and "theft/stealing" as well as saying some documents were "fraudulent" and "missuse of credit cards." Since I'm the accountant for the company, I know for a fact that none of this is true.

As far as the list ... if it's who we think it is, then that person would have had access to the list (legit) at some point in the last couple of years.

That's cool. Like I was saying, just playind devil's advocate.

Dang, was hoping that they did not have a legit reason to have access to that list as that would be some icing on the cake.

jeff061 · 11-12-2009, 01:16 PM

Whois on the domain, but you can put anything there. You need lawyers to get in touch with the domain registrar for that domain and see if they'll roll on a client. If he was dumb enough to pay by his own credit card, case closed.

If he obscured the payment or even went the identity theft route it will be very difficult.

You should also be able to check the header information on the email to see the name and ip of the sending mail server. Track that back to a host/ISP, either way you'll need to have the lawyers knock on their doors. An ISP can tell you exactly who it belongs to, hosting facility will rely on billing info and access logs.

Just free flowing and likely poorly written ideas.

jeff061 · 11-12-2009, 01:28 PM

The idiot should have just sent it from a gmail account from a wireless hotspot somwhere. So I'm sure they haven't jumped through hoops covering their ass.

fantom1979 · 11-12-2009, 02:08 PM

Most companies I have worked for have considered email address of customers to be proprietary information. A customer list for a company is usually considered property of the company and I would think that using it in this way could be considered theft (just like if they stole the secret formula to bushes baked beans). I might be way off base here as I don't know any information about your company and I am not a lawyer.

11-12-2009, 09:20 AM	#2
DaddyTorgo Hall Of Famer Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Massachusetts	wowzers __________________ Get bent whoever hacked my pw and changed my signature.

11-12-2009, 09:51 AM	#4
spleen1015 Coordinator Join Date: Sep 2003	You're like OJ, man! Do the deed, then lead the crusade to find the criminal. That's awesome! __________________ Why choose failure when success is an option?

11-12-2009, 10:00 AM	#6
Mustang Grizzled Veteran Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: Wisconsin	I'm no lawyer, I would hope your company has one for this case, but first thing I would do is do a whois on the domain to see if they were stupid enough to register it to themselves and have their name listed. Did the email just libel your boss or did it include the company? Depending on what was said and that it was sent to customer's of the company, I'd imagine it would be attacked from 2 fronts. __________________ You, you will regret what you have done this day. I will make you regret ever being born. Your going to wish you never left your mothers womb, where it was warm and safe... and wet. i am going to show you pain you never knew existed, you are going to see a whole new spectrum of pain, like a Rainboooow. But! This rainbow is not just like any other rainbow, its...

11-12-2009, 10:08 AM	#9
Mustang Grizzled Veteran Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: Wisconsin	On a separate note, it makes me giggle that someone asking about libel in email has a big ole 'Fuck Ted Ginn' on his signature. (Not that I think that is libel, I just find it humorous) __________________ You, you will regret what you have done this day. I will make you regret ever being born. Your going to wish you never left your mothers womb, where it was warm and safe... and wet. i am going to show you pain you never knew existed, you are going to see a whole new spectrum of pain, like a Rainboooow. But! This rainbow is not just like any other rainbow, its...

11-12-2009, 11:16 AM	#13
DanGarion Coordinator Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: The Great Northwest	Well it is a fact that Al Davis sucks ass and is a terrible owner, so I don't really see much libel in that... __________________ Los Angeles Dodgers Check out the FOFC Groups on Facebook! and Reddit! DON'T REPORT ME BRO!

11-12-2009, 09:43 AM	#3
Toddzilla Pro Starter Join Date: Jan 2001 Location: Burke, VA	email, pls

11-12-2009, 12:04 PM	#14
JediKooter Coordinator Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: San Diego via Sausalito via San Jose via San Diego	Playing devil's advocate here: If someone is expressing their opinions and not as fact, I think it would be hard to pursue the libel angle. I also think there are certain criteria that it has to meet to be considered libel (not 100% sure on this). It may piss you off and may seem bad and the way it was done looks bad, but, was it really libel? However, how did this person get everyone's email addresses? If they were obtained via hacking or some other non legal way, that could be something to add to this person's newly found problems. __________________ I'm no longer a Chargers fan, they are dead to me Coming this summer to a movie theater near you: The Adventures of Jedikooter: Part 4

11-12-2009, 01:16 PM	#17
jeff061 Grizzled Veteran Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: MA	Whois on the domain, but you can put anything there. You need lawyers to get in touch with the domain registrar for that domain and see if they'll roll on a client. If he was dumb enough to pay by his own credit card, case closed. If he obscured the payment or even went the identity theft route it will be very difficult. You should also be able to check the header information on the email to see the name and ip of the sending mail server. Track that back to a host/ISP, either way you'll need to have the lawyers knock on their doors. An ISP can tell you exactly who it belongs to, hosting facility will rely on billing info and access logs. Just free flowing and likely poorly written ideas. __________________ Last edited by jeff061 : 11-12-2009 at 01:21 PM.

11-12-2009, 01:28 PM	#18
jeff061 Grizzled Veteran Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: MA	The idiot should have just sent it from a gmail account from a wireless hotspot somwhere. So I'm sure they haven't jumped through hoops covering their ass. __________________

11-12-2009, 02:08 PM	#19
fantom1979 College Benchwarmer Join Date: Apr 2008 Location: Sterling Heights, Mi	Most companies I have worked for have considered email address of customers to be proprietary information. A customer list for a company is usually considered property of the company and I would think that using it in this way could be considered theft (just like if they stole the secret formula to bushes baked beans). I might be way off base here as I don't know any information about your company and I am not a lawyer.

Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)