Joe Torre to be fired

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[dervack]

http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=2617224

[bosshogg23]

Uhhhh Hmmmm

[Ragone]

I'd like to see torre take say the toronto job and stick it to the yankee's

[Dunleavy]

i'm only surprised he didn't resign before...time for roster speculation...ARod on the block anyone?

as a Cubs fan i'd love both of'em, just one is fine as well

[dervack]

Originally Posted by Dunleavy

i'm only surprised he didn't resign before...time for roster speculation...ARod on the block anyone?

as a Cubs fan i'd love both of'em, just one is fine as well

I don't see the Cubs making a pitch for Torre. On the other hand, I'm wondering if the Cubs and Yankees switch 3B with Aramis getting a new deal from the Yankees.

[DeToxRox]

This is the news story I'd LOVE to hear:

"Deal in place for A-Rod; A-Rod refuses to waive NTC"

[watravaler]

Anyone else think Steibrenner told him to bat A-Rod 8th to set up a trade? He deserves to be fired for that move alone.

[Dunleavy]

Originally Posted by watravaler

Anyone else think Steibrenner told him to bat A-Rod 8th to set up a trade? He deserves to be fired for that move alone.

far more boneheaded then batting A-Rod 8th is batting A-Rod at all in the playoffs

that said i'm open to him joining my cubbies...

I'm wondering if the Cubs and Yankees switch 3B with Aramis getting a new deal from the Yankees.

thats a mighty fair deal, but Aramis has a get out in his contract which would really suck (for us cubs fans, btw i'd move A-Rod back to SS if the deal went down)

[bosshogg23]

I really dont like how Torre handled A-Rod in the playoffs but Torre has won a freakin ton of games in the past several years.

Torre was great at handling veterans until tonight and now he sucks at it enough to be fired.

No rings in 6 years = fired That is fine if that is the case and no more. However I do not believe that is the sole element.

[dervack]

Originally Posted by Dunleavy

far more boneheaded then batting A-Rod 8th is batting A-Rod at all in the playoffs

that said i'm open to him joining my cubbies...



thats a mighty fair deal, but Aramis has a get out in his contract which would really suck (for us cubs fans, btw i'd move A-Rod back to SS if the deal went down)

Yeah, what I was saying is that Aramis doesn't opt of the deal, and instead gets a new deal with the Yankees.

[Dunleavy]

Originally Posted by dervack

Yeah, what I was saying is that Aramis doesn't opt of the deal, and instead gets a new deal with the Yankees.

i know what your saying, but what i'm saying is Aramis could opt out and sign with the yanks and the Cubs would get nothing in return and couldn't do a thing about it

[CraigSca]

Clearly, the reason the Yankees haven't won a World Series since 2001 is Joe Torre's managing.

[ISiddiqui]

Holy shit... I didn't see this coming. Torre is so beloved by Yankee fans, I thought that's the last thing Stienbrenner would have done!

[Ksyrup]

They clearly need to shake things up. I knew Torre would be gone, and if ARod isn't gone, it won't be because they didn't try. If that rumored deal to the Angels for Ervin Santana, Scott Shields (or another of their good set-up guys), and one or two of the Angels' prospects that haven't panned out so far is still a consideration, I don't see how they pass that up. And I don't see how ARod could NOT waive his no-trade, since you know it will leak to the press and the fans will make this year's treatment feel like an AA meeting by comparison to what they'll do to him next year for refusing the trade. Bernie probably won't be back, and I'd be shocked if they let Sheffield play 1B. Did you see him try to basket catch that throw in the 9th inning yesterday? I couldn't stop laughing. I've never seen a 1B do that on anything other than a skip throw, but that was just a normal on-target throw. Maybe they let Mussina walk, too, since he's identified with the guys they've brought in who haven't won one yet. I think they were going to do this last year, but held firm. Now, they know it's time to shake things up a bit.

[TroyF]

Originally Posted by Ksyrup

They clearly need to shake things up. I knew Torre would be gone, and if ARod isn't gone, it won't be because they didn't try. If that rumored deal to the Angels for Ervin Santana, Scott Shields (or another of their good set-up guys), and one or two of the Angels' prospects that haven't panned out so far is still a consideration, I don't see how they pass that up. And I don't see how ARod could NOT waive his no-trade, since you know it will leak to the press and the fans will make this year's treatment feel like an AA meeting by comparison to what they'll do to him next year for refusing the trade. Bernie probably won't be back, and I'd be shocked if they let Sheffield play 1B. Did you see him try to basket catch that throw in the 9th inning yesterday? I couldn't stop laughing. I've never seen a 1B do that on anything other than a skip throw, but that was just a normal on-target throw. Maybe they let Mussina walk, too, since he's identified with the guys they've brought in who haven't won one yet. I think they were going to do this last year, but held firm. Now, they know it's time to shake things up a bit.

Agreed. I think the scary thing, and maybe what Cashman and the Florida guys have been worried about all along is what happens when the Yankees do start to shake things up.

Once George starts, you never know when he'll stop. We may be looking at a return to the 80's, where he starts firing managers by the month, trades players after a poor three weeks and starts running bat#$%@ crazy.

Not that I'd mind this, but it is a possibility.

I wonder if Torre decides to manage again or if he calls it a career.

If the Yankees do move ARod (and I think they almost have to), I think fans of almost any team in the league will take him and cheer him. Going to be a very interesting offseason in NY.

[stevew]

Wait a second, I thought Mattingly was the obvious choice for their new manager, not Pinella.

[Warhammer]

I really hope the Angels don't deal one of their young arms. Santana was solid for them this year, and an aging Colon and an injury prone Escobar don't do anything for me.

[bulletsponge]

Originally Posted by Warhammer

I really hope the Angels don't deal one of their young arms. Santana was solid for them this year, and an aging Colon and an injury prone Escobar don't do anything for me.

knowing Stienbrenner, hed prefere an aging Colon over a young arm

[MikeVic]

Originally Posted by Dunleavy

far more boneheaded then batting A-Rod 8th is batting A-Rod at all in the playoffs

that said i'm open to him joining my cubbies...

Of course. Because then you won't have to see ARod in the playoffs.

I agree wth Ragone. He should go to Toronto.

[Ryan S]

Originally Posted by CraigSca

Clearly, the reason the Yankees haven't won a World Series since 2001 is Joe Torre's managing.

That may be true.....

When Torre put Jeff Weaver into a tied game in game 4 of the 2003 World Series, I think everyone knew exactly how the game would end.

If I were Steinbrenner, I would have fired him that night.

[Swaggs]

I think Torre has been on borrowed time ever since Lou Pinella left Seattle. If Steinbrenner could have justified dumping Torre at that time, he would have, in my opinion.

I think A-Rod stays and I'm guessing Barry Zito and Jason Schmidty join him next season.

[M GO BLUE!!!]

Originally Posted by DeToxRoxDVHStyle

This is the news story I'd LOVE to hear:

"Deal in place for A-Rod; A-Rod refuses to waive NTC"

I agree. Add to that Torre fired, Pinella takes Washington job. Girardi to the Cubs. Yanks to hire George W. Bush...

[sterlingice]

Originally Posted by stevew

Wait a second, I thought Mattingly was the obvious choice for their new manager, not Pinella.

My first thought would be "why not Girardi?"

SI

[sterlingice]

Originally Posted by CraigSca

Clearly, the reason the Yankees haven't won a World Series since 2001 is Joe Torre's managing.

I'm pretty sure the reason they won 4 of 5 was not *because* of his managing, either.

SI

[sterlingice]

Originally Posted by Swaggs

I think A-Rod stays and I'm guessing Barry Zito and Jason Schmidty join him next season.

This also seems to be the Yankees problem that no one wants to point to. Yes, they're spending $200M but they're spending it badly. All the money is in the offense and some ineffective pitchers.

Look at the composition of their rotation. They only have one legit pitcher who is under 38. They have a pair of veterans in that state where baseball statheads kick around the idea of "sure, they're worth that contract now but what about the marginal value in that 5th year of the contract where they are 38" where the only reason why they came to the Yankees is because they kicked in the extra bucks and years no one else would. And when your 4th and 5th starters are Jaret Wright and a revolving door, you're in trouble.

Sure, $200M buys you the best lineup seen in years but if you don't get any pitching, you're the 2003 Chiefs.

SI

[clintl]

Originally Posted by TroyF

I wonder if Torre decides to manage again or if he calls it a career.

If I were Torre, I call it a career and start working on my Hall of Fame induction speech. He has nothing to gain from going somewhere else.

For that matter, if I were Pinella, I wouldn't answer George's calls.

[Desnudo]

Torre to the Red Sox, please.

[sterlingice]

Originally Posted by clintl

If I were Torre, I call it a career and start working on my Hall of Fame induction speech. He has nothing to gain from going somewhere else.

For that matter, if I were Pinella, I wouldn't answer George's calls.

Yeah, he can only tarnish his legacy. He goes somewhere else without a billion dollar payroll and people start bringing up his failures in St Louis and Atlanta and wondering if it was all just the Yankees who won it for him and he was a Phil Jackson-esque pedestrian.

SI

[Desnudo]

Or maybe he goes somewhere else, wins it all again and really tweaks Steinbrenner. Although Torre doesn't seem like a vindictive guy.

[Router Help]

I wouldn't mind seeing the Tigers try to get A-Rod next year. Move Guillen from short to first.

[DeToxRox]

Originally Posted by Router Help

I wouldn't mind seeing the Tigers try to get A-Rod next year. Move Guillen from short to first.

I'd be fine with it. Inge only hit .133 in the ALDS so hey, it's a wash.

But I can't say I'd do it at the expense of Maybin and Miller, which it'd probably cost.

[Router Help]

Originally Posted by DeToxRoxDVHStyle

I'd be fine with it. Inge only hit .133 in the ALDS so hey, it's a wash.

But I can't say I'd do it at the expense of Maybin and Miller, which it'd probably cost.

Yeah not those two. Possibly for Humberto Sanchez.

[sterlingice]

Originally Posted by Router Help

I wouldn't mind seeing the Tigers try to get A-Rod next year. Move Guillen from short to first.

Why would you move an (batting considerations only) above average SS to 1B where he would be a below average 1B to move ARod into your lineup and then give up some quality prospects to boot?

SI

[Router Help]

Originally Posted by sterlingice

Why would you move an (batting considerations only) above average SS to 1B where he would be a below average 1B to move ARod into your lineup and then give up some quality prospects to boot?

SI

Because Guillen is becoming more and more of a defensive liability at short. He played a few games at first this year and didn't look too bad. I'm sure with some work in spring he could be good.

As far as A-Rod goes, we'd love to have someone with his numbers in the lineup. Slump or no slump.

[RPI-Fan]

Where are people getting the idea that teams are going to be willing to not only trade away value to get A-Rod, but also pick up his $25mil contract?!

[dawgfan]

Originally Posted by RPI-Fan

Where are people getting the idea that teams are going to be willing to not only trade away value to get A-Rod, but also pick up his $25mil contract?!

I would assume these scenarios include the Yankees picking up a sizeable portion of the remaining dollars (in addition to the money Texas is still paying out). I think the Rangers are currently picking up about 7-8M annually, and you figure the Yankees would also chip in some more in order to get back a better return on the deal.

[sterlingice]

Originally Posted by RPI-Fan

Where are people getting the idea that teams are going to be willing to not only trade away value to get A-Rod, but also pick up his $25mil contract?!

Well, at this point, he's "only" making $17M or $18M per year as part of his contract is being picked up by Texas so that does make a pretty big difference. That said, I'm presume other teams are banking on the fact that the Yankees would pick up some of his remaining salary if they traded for him but I don't know.

EDIT: D'oh, beaten to it.

SI

[DeToxRox]

Originally Posted by RPI-Fan

Where are people getting the idea that teams are going to be willing to not only trade away value to get A-Rod, but also pick up his $25mil contract?!

What they give up depends on what the team picks up. A team like the Tigers could pick up a lot more of his contract if they wanted and deal less then a team who needs the Yanks to pick up most of it. It won't matter though because it's all A-Rods say.

[RPI-Fan]

Originally Posted by sterlingice

Well, at this point, he's "only" making $17M or $18M per year as part of his contract is being picked up by Texas so that does make a pretty big difference. That said, I'm presume other teams are banking on the fact that the Yankees would pick up some of his remaining salary if they traded for him but I don't know.

EDIT: D'oh, beaten to it.

SI

My impression is that Texas' picking up $8mil is based on him playing for NYY. I'd think that if he gets traded somewhere else Texas is off the hook.

[Logan]

Originally Posted by RPI-Fan

My impression is that Texas' picking up $8mil is based on him playing for NYY. I'd think that if he gets traded somewhere else Texas is off the hook.

I'd love to see a source for this.

[RPI-Fan]

Originally Posted by Logan

I'd love to see a source for this.

I'd love to see a source indicating it is the other way.

I'm just speculating and not trying to mask it as anything else. But it just doesn't make sense to me that the Yankees could move him wherever they want (say, Texas' division rival), and force Texas to pay 25% of his salary.

[sterlingice]

Well, how it really worked is that the Rangers sent something like $70M as part of the trade. So, yes, that cash is not necessarily earmarked as "for ARod's contract"- it's just cash and it's already been sent from Texas to New York.

So, the Yankees could try to shop him at $25M per year as he's actually owed and just pocket some of that cash they got from Texas. However, there's no way anyone is going to deal for a $25M per year contract so it's just assumed that the cash from Texas would follow him tho it's not in any way bound to him other than as being part of the trade for him.

SI

[Logan]

Originally Posted by sterlingice

Well, how it really worked is that the Rangers sent something like $70M as part of the trade. So, yes, that cash is not necessarily earmarked as "for ARod's contract"- it's just cash and it's already been sent from Texas to New York.

So, the Yankees could try to shop him at $25M per year as he's actually owed and just pocket some of that cash they got from Texas. However, there's no way anyone is going to deal for a $25M per year contract so it's just assumed that the cash from Texas would follow him tho it's not in any way bound to him other than as being part of the trade for him.

SI

I believe this is how it works as well.

[RPI-Fan]

Originally Posted by sterlingice

Well, how it really worked is that the Rangers sent something like $70M as part of the trade. So, yes, that cash is not necessarily earmarked as "for ARod's contract"- it's just cash and it's already been sent from Texas to New York.

So, the Yankees could try to shop him at $25M per year as he's actually owed and just pocket some of that cash they got from Texas. However, there's no way anyone is going to deal for a $25M per year contract so it's just assumed that the cash from Texas would follow him tho it's not in any way bound to him other than as being part of the trade for him.

SI

That makes sense... thanks!

So if the Yankees traded him to the Angels, the Rangers would really, really be getting screwed (they're paying $8mil/year for their division rival to get Arod).

[sterlingice]

Originally Posted by RPI-Fan

That makes sense... thanks!

So if the Yankees traded him to the Angels, the Rangers would really, really be getting screwed (they're paying $8mil/year for their division rival to get Arod).

Well, it's all a matter of perspective. If you really want to skew it, you say "The Rangers paid $8M per year to not have to pay ARod $25M per year". It's all about sunk costs and flexibility going forwards. The Rangers have already passed along that cash or maybe they are paying it per year- either way, it's already set in stone and nothing can be done about it. Trading him to the Angels or the Brewers doesn't matter. It's not like they get the money back or something.

SI

[jbmagic]

They probably going to hire Pinella

If so, A-Rod is not going anywhere. Pinella has work with A-rod when they were in Seattle and they have a good relationship.

[DaddyTorgo]

Originally Posted by jbmagic

They probably going to hire Pinella

If so, A-Rod is not going anywhere. Pinella has work with A-rod when they were in Seattle and they have a good relationship.

doesn't matter jb. that's not a call pinella gets to make. cashman assembles the team for pinella. and they'd likely swing arod out before bringing in a new manager anyway.

[clintl]

It would be funny if George hires Pinella, and Pinella moves A-Rod back to short and makes Jeter play some other position.

[bosshogg23]

Originally Posted by sterlingice

Well, how it really worked is that the Rangers sent something like $70M as part of the trade. So, yes, that cash is not necessarily earmarked as "for ARod's contract"- it's just cash and it's already been sent from Texas to New York.

So, the Yankees could try to shop him at $25M per year as he's actually owed and just pocket some of that cash they got from Texas. However, there's no way anyone is going to deal for a $25M per year contract so it's just assumed that the cash from Texas would follow him tho it's not in any way bound to him other than as being part of the trade for him.

SI

ESPN Trade Article

The trade calls for Texas to pay $43 million of Rodriguez's salary over the remaining seven years: $3 million in 2004, $6 million each in 2005, 2006 and 2010, $7 million apiece in 2007 and 2009 and $8 million in 2008. In addition, the Rangers will pay the $24 million remaining in deferred money from the original contract, with the interest rate lowered from 3 percent to 1.75 percent.

All the deferred money owed by Texas -- $36 million including salaries from 2001 to 2003 -- will be lumped with the original $10 million signing bonus, of which $4 million is still owed. The payout schedule will be pushed back to 2016-2025 from 2011-20.



It sounds like the money is for his contract specifically.