losing first names in save game

ok, so last night i asked how to properly save the game back and forth from my friend and i. well, we figured it out, but now run into a new problem.

we ran a few tests, and after he creates a game and sends it to me, all is well, then i do a trade, send it to him, all is still well. however, when he makes his move and sends me the save file, about half the players first names are missing!! i can go an add the names, save and send, and he gets the names i changed, but when he sends it back, i lose the names AGAIN!

the other situation we tried was me creating first, and sending to him. That works fine. Then he does a move and sends back to me, AGAIN, i lose names.

Whats the deal...any help or ideas this time?

[Draft Dodger]

are you both using a properly licensed copy of the game?

i have the original disk yes. i visited him awhile back and installed the game on his computer also with my information.

we thought this might be the problem, but it makes no sense because nothing gets sent over the net as to licensing of this game, unlike TCY or other games. he isnt losing names either, only me.

[Buzzbee]

I can think of a few things that might be causing the problems, but I'm not going to share them with you. If both of you plan to play the game, then both of you should buy the game.

It seems innocent enough. You paid for the game and want to go head to head against a buddy. So just install it on his PC and away you go. Hell, I'd be tempted to do the same. However, both of you really should purchase the game.

I'm not trying to be a jerk. Just being honest.

[Bee]

Edit:

Didn't catch that he was using the same license on both computers Buzzbee. I'll revise my post as well.

Originally posted by Buzzbee
I can think of a few things that might be causing the problems, but I'm not going to share them with you. If both of you plan to play the game, then both of you should buy the game.

It seems innocent enough. You paid for the game and want to go head to head against a buddy. So just install it on his PC and away you go. Hell, I'd be tempted to do the same. However, both of you really should purchase the game.

I'm not trying to be a jerk. Just being honest.

you arent being a jerk. we thought this might be the problem, but i still dont understand why. many many games can be used off of one cd and i didnt realize this would work the same as a game such as TCY or TDCB or any of the other games that actually go online and license the game.

and anyway, fof comes with a serial, not a license. much like many other programs, as long as you have the serial, you can run the product just fine.
so i dont think its really an issue of being honest or being tempted to do anything, because im sure many have done it. thanks for the help anyways.

[Draft Dodger]

well, I do know that some pretty weird stuff will happen if the serial number (order number...whatever) isn't put in correctly - similar to the kinds of errors you mentioned.

I'm not saying for sure that's the case...but it certainly wouldn't surprise me.

[Buzzbee]

Just because you CAN, doesn't mean that you SHOULD. Yes, there are probably a lot of people who have done it. That doesn't make it right, or make it ok for you to do it. I guess its just that I consider it to be stealing, or software piracy. Your buddy is using a copy of the game that he didn't pay for. I have a problem with that (not a problem with you, though).

[sabotai]

"I guess its just that I consider it to be...software piracy."

ding ding ding!

[mrskippy]

Hypocrites.

Don't any of you share music on Kazaa?

[Buzzbee]

Originally posted by mrskippy
Hypocrites.

Don't any of you share music on Kazaa?

Nope.

[Draft Dodger]

Originally posted by mrskippy
Hypocrites.

Don't any of you share music on Kazaa?

and that's relative how?

[The Afoci]

Originally posted by Draft Dodger
and that's relative how?

I assume because technically both are illegal.

[Draft Dodger]

Originally posted by The Afoci
I assume because technically both are illegal.

so is speeding. and, in some states, sodomy. murder is also illegal. just because I do one, doesn't mean I'm a hypocrite for speaking out against another.

[Buzzbee]

DD - I have to agree with the Afoci here. Yes, speeding and murder are illegal, and speaking out against murder while speeding wouldn't be hypocritical. However, trying to make a distinction between pirating software and pirating music is about like trying to distinguish between speeding in Arizona and speeding in California. It's still speeding.

And the fact that you are taking a file that you have paid for and sharing it with others who haven't paid for it makes this eerily similar to software piracy.

Just calling it like I see it.

lets not argue about piracy, speeding, murder andallthatjazz now...

my error! i didnt want a simple question as to why i was losing names to lead into an argument about other stuff.

we already figured this might be the case. now dont get the fof police after me.

[Ksyrup]

Originally posted by Draft Dodger
so is speeding. and, in some states, sodomy. murder is also illegal. just because I do one, doesn't mean I'm a hypocrite for speaking out against another.

Exactly. I mean, if I'm driving at a high rate of speed while my wife blows me, and I just happen to veer off the road and hit a hitchhiker, that doesn't mean I can't speak out against the evils of software piracy.

[Solecismic]

I don't want this to turn into a huge argument, but, yes, I consider the above example stealing.

Sharing a license code intended for one person is illegal, and violates the terms in the license agreement that's electronically signed when installing the game.

I look the other way in a couple of cases - two people living in the same household, or someone who installs it on his main computer, but also likes to play it on his laptop. But when it's two households, you really should purchase another copy.

// begin soapbox

And, yes, I also consider sharing copyrighted music on Kazaa stealing, and I've never done it, nor will I let my son do it when he's old enough to torture me with Eminem or whoever his anti-establishment successor might be.

Some justify music-swapping as okay, because it usually only rips off large corporations. Who cares if they lose 10 percent of their profit? Well, a lot of that 10 percent will come out of the money they spend gambling on new and unusual bands. It sure as heck won't come out of the year-end bonus to the executives. So, the main victims are garage bands struggling for a break.

//end soapbox

I don't think music-swapping or sharing a license with a friend makes anyone a bad person. Perhaps just a little unaware of how hard it is to make a living selling intellectual property.

[Buzzbee]

Originally posted by andallthatjazz
my error! i didnt want a simple question as to why i was losing names to lead into an argument about other stuff.

Don't fret it. This is par for the course at FOFC.

Average life span of an on topic post...about 6 replies. After that it will eventually degrade to sex, drugs, trolling, or collossal _________ (fill in the blank).

[Buzzbee]

Dola -

My next suggestion would be:

Once your buddy buys the game, contact Jim or Ethan at Solecismic and I'm confident they'd be happy to 'splain how to share your saved games without issue.

[Draft Dodger]

Originally posted by Solecismic
I don't want this to turn into a huge argument, but, yes, I consider the above example stealing.

so do I.

I just don't think it's the same thing as downloading music from Kazaa (I think software piracy is much more sever than that music downloading).

[Draft Dodger]

Originally posted by Buzzbee
Dola -

My next suggestion would be:

Once your buddy buys the game, contact Jim or Ethan at Solecismic and I'm confident they'd be happy to 'splain how to share your saved games without issue.

who is Ethan? what did I miss?

[sabotai]

"So, the main victims are garage bands struggling for a break."

The irony is that the garage bands struggling for a break are generally people who openly support music-sharing. They don't air time on the radio. They don't get ads on TV or in stores. So music-sharing is basically the only way they have to get their music out there and create a buzz. And they realize that and support it.

[Ben E Lou]

Whoa. I missed this thread. I've said it before. Looking for help with software piracy is an automatic banning.

[Solecismic]

Yes, it is ironic. A rather cut-throat struggle for increasingly limited development dollars.

I guess that's a good decision for bands if and only if internet buzz is something promoters care about. Does it even exist to a significant extent in the music world? I thought bands were discovered by playing the club scene.

It sometimes works that way in the software world - those PopCap games being a good example.

But for a niche product like mine, it would be professional suicide.

[Masked]

Originally posted by Draft Dodger
who is Ethan? what did I miss?

Child labor laws in New Hampshire are very loose.

[mrskippy]

Nice job SkyDog. I don't think he was being deceptive. Rather than climb over the guy, give him the steps he needs to buy a copy of the game. That's a much more productive measure.

Also, here's an idea for Jim and something that I'm starting to see a lot, especially with MMORPGs. What the software companies do now is allow you to share the software itself. Rather than buy a second copy for your other computer or more importantly for a friend, you can now buy a second serial number/software license.

This is something that the business software industry has done for years, whereas companies will be one physical copy of Micrsoft Windows, Microsoft Office, Photoshop, Quark or whatever. But they buy additional licenses for each computer. At my former employer, when they went through and built new PCs, they went through and put the Microsoft Windows sticker at each terminal. They were on a sticker sheet. When they have to reinstall, they often will reinstall from a CD-R (the original is kept under lock and key). And it's all within the license agreement.

Also, perhaps it's time that Jim made the game available by eLicense. BTW, eLicense is supposed to be capable of doing the above -- selling multiple licenses in one transaction.

As for this particular user who posted above, here's hoping he buys the game. Once he does, he should be let back onto this forum. And he should be given help with his problem. And if the problem still exists ...

Skippy

[Ben E Lou]

Originally posted by mrskippy
....Rather than climb over the guy, give him the steps he needs to buy a copy of the game....

As for this particular user who posted above, here's hoping he buys the game. Once he does, he should be let back onto this forum. And he should be given help with his problem. And if the problem still exists ...

Did you even read his post????????????

He has the game. He bought the game. He installed it on his friend's computer. He knows how to buy the game.

[DolphinFan1]

Originally posted by Solecismic
I don't want this to turn into a huge argument, but, yes, I consider the above example stealing.

Sharing a license code intended for one person is illegal, and violates the terms in the license agreement that's electronically signed when installing the game.

I look the other way in a couple of cases - two people living in the same household, or someone who installs it on his main computer, but also likes to play it on his laptop. But when it's two households, you really should purchase another copy.

// begin soapbox

And, yes, I also consider sharing copyrighted music on Kazaa stealing, and I've never done it, nor will I let my son do it when he's old enough to torture me with Eminem or whoever his anti-establishment successor might be.

Some justify music-swapping as okay, because it usually only rips off large corporations. Who cares if they lose 10 percent of their profit? Well, a lot of that 10 percent will come out of the money they spend gambling on new and unusual bands. It sure as heck won't come out of the year-end bonus to the executives. So, the main victims are garage bands struggling for a break.

//end soapbox

I don't think music-swapping or sharing a license with a friend makes anyone a bad person. Perhaps just a little unaware of how hard it is to make a living selling intellectual property.

I agree, but when I tried to buy 2 extra games of FOF I was told that I could only buy one. I wanted to give my brother and a friend a Christmas present when it came out. I would have paid for 3 legally. Note: I did not give my brother or my friend a copy. I just told them that I couldn't buy more than one. I do things legally. It does create problems though when an honest person wants to do it right and is told he can't.

[mrskippy]

He has the game. He bought the game. He installed it on his friend's computer. He knows how to buy the game.

I know that, just being sarcastic. Geesh!!!

Rather than let this evolve into an ethics test, someone simply could have said, "Go buy the game. Once you have done so, feel free to reask your question."

As for what this guy did, I'd venture to guess that each of us has done this at least once in our lives.

And Jim does need to make license acquisition easier and make it possible to buy a secondary license. If Microsoft and Adobe can do it for a $500 piece of software, I think Jim could do this for his games. He doesn't have to discount.

Otherwise, make it an eLicense download. I mean look at what Softwrap (an eLicense rival) has done with OOTP. You can download OOTP from the legal-section in Kazaa, try and buy. Simple. Same goes for CM 01/02. You also can download these from the Web. Trygames.com has Season Ticket Baseball and Season Ticket Basketball using the same method. ESD is the wave of the future, not CD.

[Draft Dodger]

Originally posted by DolphinFan1
I agree, but when I tried to buy 2 extra games of FOF I was told that I could only buy one. I wanted to give my brother and a friend a Christmas present when it came out. I would have paid for 3 legally. Note: I did not give my brother or my friend a copy. I just told them that I couldn't buy more than one. I do things legally. It does create problems though when an honest person wants to do it right and is told he can't.

that's really bizarre. I'm surprised by that.

[Ben E Lou]

Originally posted by mrskippy
Rather than let this evolve into an ethics test, someone simply could have said, "Go buy the game. Once you have done so, feel free to reask your question."

Why would they have said this, since clearly he said he already had bought the game???

[mrskippy]

Originally posted by DolphinFan1
I agree, but when I tried to buy 2 extra games of FOF I was told that I could only buy one. I wanted to give my brother and a friend a Christmas present when it came out. I would have paid for 3 legally. Note: I did not give my brother or my friend a copy. I just told them that I couldn't buy more than one. I do things legally. It does create problems though when an honest person wants to do it right and is told he can't.

Ding ding ding. This is exactly what I'm talking about.

When you have these restrictions in place, you can assuredly expect piracy. Almost everybody selling software on the Web allows you to buy more than one. And most will even offer a discount once you start getting into the 5, 10 or 20 copy range.

[mrskippy]

Originally posted by SkyDog
Why would they have said this, since clearly he said he already had bought the game???

OK make that -- "Have your friend go buy the game ... yada, yada, yada."

[Draft Dodger]

anyone have any idea what Skippy is talking about?

[Draft Dodger]

SkyDog - I thought you were kidding about banning that guy; isn't that action a wee bit harsh?

[mrskippy]

I was going to post this to the friend's thread, but SkyDog closed it before I could.

Here is my response and what should have been said it the first place, rather than getting on this guy's ass and calling him a thief. Remember, I know for a fact that many on here download from Kazaa (from earlier threads regarding legal download services) and I know that many of you've probably shared a copy of a computer game. So while you point one finger, there are three pointing back.

Anyway ... my response:

I understand that your motives were to see if it would work, but the problem is that you struck a nerve when it came to software piracy. I believe you weren't intending to steal the game.

Here's my solution:

1 - Buy the game
2 - If you continue to have problems, come back here and repost the question. I think that most members of this community would be glad to help once you own a legal copy
3 - At the same time e-mail support AT solecismic.com, because Jim's a great man and would be glad to help ... but only if you own your own copy
4 - If all else fails and your still not happy, I think that Jim would be more than willing to offer you a refund

To put it another way, if you do this with a copy of a commercial product, you do not get support from the developer. If you own a pirated copy of MS Windows and it craps out your computer, it's your loss. Obviously if it works, great, but than you still stole it.

Point is, own the game before askign for support. Once you own it, we'd all be more than willing to help. Good luck.

[Ben E Lou]

Originally posted by Draft Dodger
SkyDog - I thought you were kidding about banning that guy; isn't that action a wee bit harsh?

I have a strict policy regarding gaming piracy.

[The Afoci]

Originally posted by SkyDog
I have a strict policy regarding piracy.

Bucc seems nice to me though.

[Draft Dodger]

Originally posted by SkyDog
I have a strict policy regarding gaming piracy.

you used to have a pretty liberal warning policy too.

obviously, I don't make the rules. just surprised to see him get such a quick boot

[DolphinFan1]

Originally posted by Draft Dodger
that's really bizarre. I'm surprised by that.

Well, I sent Jim an e-mail about it and he told me it was company policy. Yes, my brother and friend could have bought the game, but I wanted to surprise them with Christmas presents. I was a little discouraged with the whole episode.

[Ben E Lou]

Originally posted by Draft Dodger
you used to have a pretty liberal warning policy too.

obviously, I don't make the rules. just surprised to see him get such a quick boot

Actually I referenced this earlier. There have been maybe 5-10 others banned for piracy-oriented issues since I've been at the helm. Usually I catch the thread early on, delete the thread, and delete the user so that no one ever sees. I do it that way so that anyone who might be inclined to help out never gets an e-mail address for the person.

[mrskippy]

Originally posted by SkyDog
I have a strict policy regarding gaming piracy.

Just gaming piracy?

Anyone have a copy of Photoshop they wanna give me? J/K

All piracy is wrong!!! SkyDog look back at the threads about BuyMusic.com, the new Napster, and legal music download services.

Candy bars are only 50 cents. And damn Hershey, they make enough money already. And look, it's easy to steal. Just slip it in my pocket. But how many of you would really do this?

Also, look at music downloading another way. They sell singles of popular songs at Wal-Mart, Target, Kmart, record stores, etc. What's the difference between downloading that and stealing that from the store shelf?

And none of this "try before I buy" bull shit. Because, acordoing to the person who started this thread that is what he and his friend were trying to see.

[Schmidty]

I agree that a warning would have been a better approach.

I think the point should be to stop piracy, and educate people who might want to steal games, not to simply make them bitter. I think that instantly banning people without warning for even mentioning something fishy will only anger them, and make them more likely to pirate games.

Just my opinion.

[mrskippy]

Originally posted by DolphinFan1
Well, I sent Jim an e-mail about it and he told me it was company policy. Yes, my brother and friend could have bought the game, but I wanted to surprise them with Christmas presents. I was a little discouraged with the whole episode.

Not to Jim:

FOF makes an excellent gift!!!

Two ways to do it:

-- Sell gift certificates for your Web store
-- Sell the game eLicense. As I believe they have a gift system
-- Sell the game as normal, but add a gift option.
-- And if you do number four, you can do what Amazon, Buy.com and others do. Offer gift wrapping and put the wife to work.

[mrskippy]

Originally posted by Schmidty
and make them more likely to pirate games.

Or buy the competitor's game as was mentioned in the other thread the SD closed.

One thing Jim must remember is that after Oct. 31, he will have a legitimate and formidable competitor in the text-based football genre. Up until now, he's had the market cornered.

And from the sound of things, Arlie is creating one helluva game.

Best of all, it'll be eLicense ... instant gratification.

[The Afoci]

I hate eLicesnse, but that may just be me.

[Draft Dodger]

Originally posted by SkyDog
Actually I referenced this earlier. There have been maybe 5-10 others banned for piracy-oriented issues since I've been at the helm. Usually I catch the thread early on, delete the thread, and delete the user so that no one ever sees. I do it that way so that anyone who might be inclined to help out never gets an e-mail address for the person.

see - that's what I'm saying.

I had no idea there was a policy against mentioning gaming piracy here - and I've been here forever. if threads/posts disappear quietly, how do we know it's not allowed.

[Ben E Lou]

Originally posted by Draft Dodger
see - that's what I'm saying.

I had no idea there was a policy against mentioning gaming piracy here - and I've been here forever. if threads/posts disappear quietly, how do we know it's not allowed.

I've mentioned it several times.

[mrskippy]

But again SkyDog, I think I posted a more fair solution, rather than just getting over someone's ass.

Now more than ever, as TPF approaches, it's important not to piss off a customer or in the case of this guy's friend, a potential customer. As they'll just go buy the other game, and rightly so. Especially since that other game will be multiplayer.

Cut the above poster some slack.

Perhaps Jim can make the guy a deal that if the game doesn't work and do what he's hoping to do that he can get a refund. Fair enough?

I don't think this guy was trying to pirate the software purposefully. After all ... he does have a purchased copy!!! Most true software pirates, would have a pirated copy already. That's how it works and it trickles down.

Cut him some slack.