Are white people allowed to quote the line "That ain't nothing but ultra perm"

[LastWhiteSoxFanStanding]

According to my friend, I can't because people of color don't appreciate when educated white people code switch and something about cultural appropriation? I am not sure. He took issue with the phrase "that aint nothing" mostly. According to him it would have been ok to use just say That is just ultra perm

I can give a bit more context later if people care (you probably won't)

So what say you, FOFC? Is this a quoteable line? Are we going to have a serious discussion or will this turn into the most offensive thread in FOF history

[Logan]

Well, I'm a white guy, so I'll start off with that...

I can't imagine why the issue would be the first part and not the second part (if it's even an issue), or just the implication of the whole thing.

If you're going to quote a line, why would you change any of the words...outside of an obvious one, of course?

[NobodyHere]

Originally Posted by LastWhiteSoxFanStanding

According to my friend, I can't because people of color don't appreciate when educated white people code switch and something about cultural appropriation? I am not sure. He took issue with the phrase "that aint nothing" mostly. According to him it would have been ok to use just say That is just ultra perm

I can give a bit more context later if people care (you probably won't)

So what say you, FOFC? Is this a quoteable line? Are we going to have a serious discussion or will this turn into the most offensive thread in FOF history

To say that a person can't do something because the color of their skin is simply racism. (Except acting roles of historical figures)

[rjolley]

I'm a Black man and I don't see the problem, especially with the correction. Non-Black people can't say ain't? Must've missed that one in the latest newsletter.

I'm more curious as to why that line was the appropriate quote.

[digamma]

That whole movie is quotable as far as I'm concerned.

[ISiddiqui]

Originally Posted by NobodyHere

To say that a person can't do something because the color of their skin is simply racism.

Unless you are changing the definition of racism, not really. Or, perhaps, you think that determining whether it's appropriate for someone of one race to say something advances the superiority of one race over another?

[JonInMiddleGA]

Wait ... what?

I gotta be missing something somewhere.

the phrase "that aint nothing"

Has this person never been around any rednecks on most any Fri or Sat night?
That phrase is a helluva lot older than anybody still living.

(Those are common words predating all the "hey ya'll, watch this" jokes as well as "hold my beer")

[cartman]

What about a black guy, impersonating a old white Jewish guy, saying "He beat Joe Louis's ass!"?

[BYU 14]

This shit just gets ridiculous sometimes. People should be able to say whatever the fuck they want unless it is intentionally bigoted, malicious or hurtful. And even then they can still be ignorant, they just deserve whatever ramifications come with that mindset.

And this comes from a white guy, married to a black woman, with black and white kids, two of whom are married to Hispanics and one with a half Asian child, and a younger brother who is gay. In other words my family pretty much has all the bases covered and the credo we live by is to show love to all, regardless of ethnicity, religion, sexual preference or socio-economic background.

[cartman]

Originally Posted by BYU 14

This shit just gets ridiculous sometimes. People should be able to say whatever the fuck they want unless it is intentionally bigoted, malicious or hurtful. And even then they can still be ignorant, they just deserve whatever ramifications come with that mindset.

And this comes from a white guy, married to a black woman, with black and white kids, two of whom are married to Hispanics and one with a half Asian child, and a younger brother who is gay. In other words my family pretty much has all the bases covered and the credo we live by is to show love to all, regardless of ethnicity, religion, sexual preference or socio-economic background.

That ain't nothing but ultra perm.

[sabotai]

Originally Posted by cartman

What about a black guy, impersonating a old white Jewish guy, saying "He beat Joe Louis's ass!"?

That's right, he did whip Joe Louis' ass.

[CU Tiger]

Originally Posted by ISiddiqui

Unless you are changing the definition of racism, not really. Or, perhaps, you think that determining whether it's appropriate for someone of one race to say something advances the superiority of one race over another?

By saying 1 race can say something and another race can not, then you are by definition saying that 1 race is superior in the matter at hand, no?

[BYU 14]

Originally Posted by cartman

That ain't nothing but ultra perm.

or a G thang

[SteveM58]

I know it makes me "that" guy....but I have no idea where that quote is from.

I'm also content in my willful ignorance. Enough so that I know I could google it quicker than writing this sentence.

[digamma]

Originally Posted by sabotai

That's right, he did whip Joe Louis' ass.

Joe Louis was 75 years old.

[sabotai]

Originally Posted by digamma

Joe Louis was 75 years old.

I don't know how old he was, but he got his ass whooped.

[Butter]

I asked Frank, "you hang out with Joe Louis, he always lies about his age, how old is Joe Louis?"

He said, "You know what, Joe Louis is 137 years old."

137 years old!

[sabotai]

Oh man, you ain't never meet no Frank Sinatra.

[Logan]

You ain't never met no Martin Luther the King.

[Honolulu_Blue]

Originally Posted by CU Tiger

By saying 1 race can say something and another race can not, then you are by definition saying that 1 race is superior in the matter at hand, no?

No. Not in the slightest.

[ISiddiqui]

Originally Posted by CU Tiger

By saying 1 race can say something and another race can not, then you are by definition saying that 1 race is superior in the matter at hand, no?

Not at all. If you are saying that one race cannot say something that another race can because of historic discrimination and oppression, and those phrases and words are attempts by the historically oppressed race to reclaim it's dignity and identity, you are saying the exact opposite of superiority.

The N-word comes to mind. Black folk are allowed to say it because they are reclaiming a word that has been used to oppress them. Others can't because it has been a word that has used to oppress black people.

When you are the dominant culture, sometimes you need to take a step back so other marginalized cultures can grow and take that space that had been denied them.

[Logan]

I'm pretty sure every black guy who says the n-word has been way more superior at not being a racist than every white guy who has said it, so he does have a point.

[ISiddiqui]

[CU Tiger]

Originally Posted by ISiddiqui

Not at all. If you are saying that one race cannot say something that another race can because of historic discrimination and oppression, and those phrases and words are attempts by the historically oppressed race to reclaim it's dignity and identity, you are saying the exact opposite of superiority.

The N-word comes to mind. Black folk are allowed to say it because they are reclaiming a word that has been used to oppress them. Others can't because it has been a word that has used to oppress black people.

When you are the dominant culture, sometimes you need to take a step back so other marginalized cultures can grow and take that space that had been denied them.

Suffice to say you and I will never see eye to eye on this issue, so no point in continuing dialogue.

Racism is defined as holding ones race above another. Power position doesn't matter.

Stated differently, superiority isn't the antithesis of inferiority. Equality is the antithesis of inferiority.

[ISiddiqui]

Originally Posted by CU Tiger

Racism is defined as holding ones race above another. Power position doesn't matter.

Holding one's race above another seems to literally be power positioning. Saying you can't say something because your group has oppressed us and we are attempting to gain back some of that which your group has taken from us seems to be saying we don't believe your group should be above our group anymore.

[CrescentMoonie]

Originally Posted by ISiddiqui

Holding one's race above another seems to literally be power positioning.

Which can be true of someone whose race is actually in a place of inferiority but wishes for it not to be so. It is absolutely possible to be the oppressed minority and be racist, it just means that your version of racism doesn't hold as much cultural sway as that of others.

[ISiddiqui]

Originally Posted by CrescentMoonie

It is absolutely possible to be the oppressed minority and be racist, it just means that your version of racism doesn't hold as much cultural sway as that of others.

Take it up with the dictionary, I guess? And I think that in order for it to be racism it must have as an aspect of it the belief that a race is superior or that a race is inferior (and black people can indeed be racist IMO; they just have to believe that the black race is superior or believe that another race is an inferior race - whether it be white, East Asian, etc). Anything other than that is prejudice or bias, but not racism.

[Buccaneer]

Originally Posted by ISiddiqui

Anything other than that is prejudice or bias, but not racism.

That is very much correct. Unfortunately, today's culture and media have co-opted the word racism to mean pretty much anything. When that is done, it's true meaning is lost and the true nature of racism gets buried.

I would guess that 90% of what is called racism is really prejudice and bias.

It's like how people are merging neo-nazism, white nationalist and nationalists who are white. Three different things but when meanings are obscured or blended, then it becomes something nebulous to discuss and confront because their definitions have been lost.

[CrescentMoonie]

Originally Posted by ISiddiqui

Take it up with the dictionary, I guess? And I think that in order for it to be racism it must have as an aspect of it the belief that a race is superior or that a race is inferior (and black people can indeed be racist IMO; they just have to believe that the black race is superior or believe that another race is an inferior race - whether it be white, East Asian, etc). Anything other than that is prejudice or bias, but not racism.

Which is what I just said. The actual position of the race is largely irrelevant, it's ones feeling about that race in relation to others. You can clearly be racist without having any actual power.

[AENeuman]

Seems that an individual can say, with in reason, that "I experience that phrase/word you are using as racist (harassing, sexist, homophobic, etc)" and be correct. As the speaker it seems we should respect the reaction and be somewhat more mindful of repeating it around similar groups.

That's all.

[ISiddiqui]

CM: Ok, I misunderstood what you were getting at. In the two races that the OP was talking about - white & black, I find it is incredibly rare that the latter is racist. Albeit a lot of folks from the former seem to believe the latter is 'racist' when advocating for equality and pointing out how the former group has prevented that from occurring (John Lewis comes to mind as a recent example).

[Schmidty]

I fucking hate this thread.

[NobodyHere]

Originally Posted by ISiddiqui

CM: Ok, I misunderstood what you were getting at. In the two races that the OP was talking about - white & black, I find it is incredibly rare that the latter is racist. Albeit a lot of folks from the former seem to believe the latter is 'racist' when advocating for equality and pointing out how the former group has prevented that from occurring (John Lewis comes to mind as a recent example).

Right, black people are never racist

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by AENeuman

As the speaker it seems we should respect the reaction and be somewhat more mindful of repeating it around similar groups.

That kind of requires a presumption of giving a fuck though, doesn't it?

I can control my intentions.

I learned long ago that I cannot control the reactions of any number of delusional fuckwits on the planet.

[AENeuman]

Originally Posted by JonInMiddleGA

That kind of requires a presumption of giving a fuck though, doesn't it?

I can control my intentions.

I learned long ago that I cannot control the reactions of any number of delusional fuckwits on the planet.

Ok. LWFS, was asking about a friend, which I also think has overlap in the professional world. That's all.

Btw, why do you have so many delusional fuckwits in your life? I think one of the best part of getting older is deciding who you want in your life.

[sabotai]

Originally Posted by Schmidty

I fucking hate this thread.

All right, geez, didn't know you'd have this reaction to people quoting Coming To America. Duly noted for the future.

[Young Drachma]

Wow, this thread features all the FOFC greatest hits.

[Izulde]

Putting aside the issues of right/wrong, cultural appropriation, the real issue is this:

When someone of a majority cultural group switches to the specific language/dialect of a minority cultural group, they're going to do it wrong 99.9% of the time, even if they know the linguistics of the minority dialect. Why? Because they won't understand the subtle rules of context and nuance that give the original its power, flavor, and levels of meaning.

The reason a member of a minority group can usually successfully switch to majority language is because ipso facto the majority, context and nuance permeates throughout everything - our daily interactions, our business settings, our popular culture is almost completely governed by majority language structures, so one naturally absorbs its shades of meanings in a way that one can't with minority dialects unless one is in some way fully immersed in the minority culture (in most cases by being a member of the group).

[Julio Riddols]

Your friend is just overly sensitive and should ride a shorter horse. Wonder what he thought of Robert Downey Jr. in Tropic Thunder.

[Mota]

People of all cultures and races can be influenced by people of other cultures and races. It shouldn't be surprising in any way that a saying or dialect bleeds into mainstream dialect. I would also view it as a good thing. Living in a multicultural city, I would hope that we can all experience what other cultures have to offer and not isolate ourselves in little bubbles.