Brokeback Mountain

[Bubba Wheels]

Biggest example of 'media masterbation' I have ever seen. Cannot pickup a newspaper or magazine or entertainment tv show without seeing more news coverage about this movie than you can about the current Christmas retail numbers. And the thing is, nobody cares about this movie what-so-ever. Talk Soup says the per-screen numbers is about a whole whopping $100,000 per-viewing. Then he says 'good luck in the red states!" Not even drawing crowds in NY or LA.

Biggest case of disconnect between media and audience I have ever seen. Can't help but wonder if only because of the high percentage of gays in Hollywood and Hollywood media coverage that this is being driven so relentlessly. BTW, the last is a valid observation (no different than liberals debating the number of Catholics on the Supreme Court and its possible impact on abortion law in the future).

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by Bubba Wheels

Can't help but wonder if only because of the high percentage of gays in Hollywood and Hollywood media coverage that this is being driven so relentlessly.

Gee, y'think?

(actually, I believe it's a little deeper than that, but close enough for a Saturday morning)

[cthomer5000]

I guess the high percentage of gorillas in Hollywood and the Hollywood media explains the insane amount of press I'm seeing about King Kong?

[Bubba Wheels]

Originally Posted by cthomer5000

I guess the high percentage of gorillas in Hollywood and the Hollywood media explains the insane amount of press I'm seeing about King Kong?

No, that would be a another issue: How can Hollywood continue to make alot of money when they have been completely bankrupt of new ideas? I know, lets remake the same movie again every 10yrs. Yeah, thats the ticket!

[JeeberD]

Four words:

Anne Hathaway's bare boobs

That'll make up for the gay cowboys for me...

[cthomer5000]

Originally Posted by JeeberD

Four words:

Anne Hathaway's bare boobs

That'll make up for the gay cowboys for me...

I'm all about seeing Brokeback Mountain, but i've also got a PSA for everyone:

Anne Hathaway's bare boobs are also on display numerous times in the movie Havoc that was just released straight-to-DVD (after sitting on the studio shelf for 2 years). It's a decent movie, not great, not bad, but it requires a little patience.

[Airhog]

Originally Posted by Bubba Wheels

Biggest case of disconnect between media and audience I have ever seen. Can't help but wonder if only because of the high percentage of gays in Hollywood and Hollywood media coverage that this is being driven so relentlessly. BTW, the last is a valid observation (no different than liberals debating the number of Catholics on the Supreme Court and its possible impact on abortion law in the future).

Lets face it. The only reason you have an issue with this movie is because it shows gay people.

[cthomer5000]

Originally Posted by Airhog

Lets face it. The only reason you have an issue with this movie is because it shows gay people.

Gee, y'think?

[Airhog]

Originally Posted by cthomer5000

Gee, y'think?

They don't call me captain obvious for nothing

[Cuckoo]

Whether or not Bubba's point is valid is not really the issue, in my opinion. I have heard from people who have no interest in any Hollywood causes say it is a very good movie.

By all indications, it is at the very least a quality film. Combine that with the fact that it's very unique in its presentation of a fairly old storyline, and it is not a surprise to me at all that the movie is getting plenty of press.

[JeeberD]

Originally Posted by cthomer5000

I'm all about seeing Brokeback Mountain, but i've also got a PSA for everyone:

Anne Hathaway's bare boobs are also on display numerous times in the movie Havoc that was just released straight-to-DVD (after sitting on the studio shelf for 2 years). It's a decent movie, not great, not bad, but it requires a little patience.

Got the video of the pertinent Havoc scenes saved to the computer already. But thanks for the info...

[Flasch186]

I havnt seen it but what if its good? could be bad, I dont know....BUT here is the question:

BW - Have you seen the movie yet? If not, than you might be what is defined as ignorant to know if it lives up to the hype or not.

according to Yahoo the cirtics (12 of them:

Atlanta Journal-Constitution
Eleanor Ringel Gillespie "Flawed but groundbreaking -- and beautifully done." more... B
Chicago Sun-Times
Roger Ebert "...(Ang) Lee respects the entire arc of his story, right down to the lonely conclusion." more... A
Chicago Tribune
Michael Phillips "Heath Ledger is a revelation as Ennis." more... A-
E! Online "...director Ang Lee takes gorgeous outside shots and wrangles up the emotion until you weep like a baby." more... A
Entertainment Weekly
Owen Gleiberman "Brokeback Mountain is that rare thing, a big Hollywood weeper with a beautiful ache at its center." more... A
filmcritic.com
David Thomas "...a work of universal substance..." more... A
New York Post
Kyle Smith "This is one of the best serious films about homosexuality ever made, but though it's sad and sobering it's still only a rough draft of a great movie." more... B
New York Times
Stephen Holden "...landmark..." more... A
ReelViews
James Berardinelli "The primary supporting actors deserve equal recognition." more... B
Rolling Stone
Peter Travers "...unmissable and unforgettable..." more... A
San Francisco Chronicle
Mick LaSalle "...pays attention to the nuances of expression, to the thoughts and emotions being articulated between the words and in the pauses." more... A
Seattle Post-Intelligencer
William Arnold "It's so poignant and unthreatening that its crossover appeal to women and straight men should be very strong." more... A-


then approx. 2400 users gave it a B....more than likely not all of them have seen it either BUT I dont need to slap you around with a class on statistics again, do I?

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by Flasch186

I havnt seen it but what if its good? could be bad, I dont know....BUT here is the question:

Except that isn't really the point.

It could be Ben-Hur, it could be Waterworld, but that really doesn't explain the amount of media hype this movie is getting.

[Bubba Wheels]

Yes, I remember all the good press and great reviews that Passion of the Christ got, not to mention all of Mel Gibson's good press, seeing that particular movie grossed something like $340 million so far at least. And I believe that movie was pretty radical regarding what usually comes out of Hollywood. You said " A quality film telling an old story in a unique way...". Yes, its always about that isn't it?

BTW, first thing I thought of when this movie came out was the cowboy in the Village People. So driving home from Toronto yesterday and lo and behold, talk-show having an interview with 'the original gay cowboy from the Village People." Can't say I stayed tuned to hear it though.

[Flasch186]

the fact that its a unique story, getting critical acclaim, winning nominations left and right doesnt give reason to hype, and a new release?

[Cuckoo]

Originally Posted by Bubba Wheels

Biggest example of 'media masterbation' I have ever seen. Cannot pickup a newspaper or magazine or entertainment tv show without seeing more news coverage about this movie than you can about the current Christmas retail numbers. And the thing is, nobody cares about this movie what-so-ever. Talk Soup says the per-screen numbers is about a whole whopping $100,000 per-viewing. Then he says 'good luck in the red states!" Not even drawing crowds in NY or LA.

Biggest case of disconnect between media and audience I have ever seen. Can't help but wonder if only because of the high percentage of gays in Hollywood and Hollywood media coverage that this is being driven so relentlessly. BTW, the last is a valid observation (no different than liberals debating the number of Catholics on the Supreme Court and its possible impact on abortion law in the future).

I have a question for you Bubba. Do you think that moviemakers have no other interest in the creation of films than simply "connecting" with a mass audience?

My personal opinion is they definitely do.

It may very well be true that the quality of the film is being inflated by those who have a personal interest in its subject matter. Honestly, I have no idea. But it certainly wouldn't be the first time that's happened in film history.

It's also equally possible that the film is truly well done, one of the better films of the year. I intend to see it so I can make up my mind.

[GrantDawg]

Originally Posted by Airhog

They don't call me captain obvious for nothing

Change his title, Skydog. Change it now!

[cthomer5000]

Originally Posted by JonInMiddleGA

Except that isn't really the point.

It could be Ben-Hur, it could be Waterworld, but that really doesn't explain the amount of media hype this movie is getting.

This is what I'm not seeing. I live in New Jersey and work in New York City. I'm hearing 50x more about King Kong than I am about Brokeback Mountain. I've heard equally much about Syriana through my normal media outlets. I'm just not seeing what you guys are claiming is there, but perhaps it's regional. Of course that makes even less sense since the movie is actually showing in New York right now, while it is not being shown yet nation-wide.

[Flasch186]

Originally Posted by Bubba Wheels

Yes, I remember all the good press and great reviews that Passion of the Christ got, not to mention all of Mel Gibson's good press, seeing that particular movie grossed something like $340 million so far at least. And I believe that movie was pretty radical regarding what usually comes out of Hollywood. You said " A quality film telling an old story in a unique way...". Yes, its always about that isn't it?

BTW, first thing I thought of when this movie came out was the cowboy in the Village People. So driving home from Toronto yesterday and lo and behold, talk-show having an interview with 'the original gay cowboy from the Village People." Can't say I stayed tuned to hear it though.

I saw Passion and loved it and it got tons of hype. Why do you think you are bashing something you havnt seen? Can you explain it without letting your faith drip into your attack? Considering that youre coming from a place of ignorance Id love to hear it. I can defend the crap out of Passion as a movie since I've seen it I cannot attack or defend a movie I havn't seen and neither can you so why dont you STFU and leave your ridiculous poisened Ideology out of analysis and ONLY use cognitive reasoning.

IOW, you have no idea whether the hype is warranted or not.

Passion was excellent as a film (BTW Im Jewish wherein a lot of the attacks came from Jews, just wanted to point that out), it was well shot, well acted, emotionally effective, brutal, and moving. It was excellent. Your turn. watch Brokeback and then critique it as a movie. Im wiating on the edge of my seat.

[GrantDawg]

Originally Posted by Cuckoo

By all indications, it is at the very least a quality film. Combine that with the fact that it's very unique in its presentation of a fairly old storyline, and it is not a surprise to me at all that the movie is getting plenty of press.

What's the original story line? I haven't heard.

[Bubba Wheels]

I am afraid, however, that after all the hype about this particular movie regarding cowboys I will never be able to view the title of 'Blazing Saddles' again in quite the same way.

[Easy Mac]

Originally Posted by Bubba Wheels

Biggest example of 'media masterbation' I have ever seen. Cannot pickup a newspaper or magazine or entertainment tv show without seeing more news coverage about this movie than you can about the current Christmas retail numbers. And the thing is, nobody cares about this movie what-so-ever. Talk Soup says the per-screen numbers is about a whole whopping $100,000 per-viewing. Then he says 'good luck in the red states!" Not even drawing crowds in NY or LA.

Biggest case of disconnect between media and audience I have ever seen. Can't help but wonder if only because of the high percentage of gays in Hollywood and Hollywood media coverage that this is being driven so relentlessly. BTW, the last is a valid observation (no different than liberals debating the number of Catholics on the Supreme Court and its possible impact on abortion law in the future).

Ummm, you realize $100,000 per screen is freaking huge right?

[cthomer5000]

Originally Posted by Bubba Wheels

I am afraid, however, that after all the hype about this particular movie regarding cowboys I will never be able to view the title of 'Blazing Saddles' again in quite the same way.

You are one sad motherfucker.

[Cuckoo]

Originally Posted by cthomer5000

This is what I'm not seeing. I live in New Jersey and work in New York City. I'm hearing 50x more about King Kong than I am about Brokeback Mountain. I've heard equally much about Syriana through my normal media outlets. I'm just not seeing what you guys are claiming is there, but perhaps it's regional. Of course that makes even less sense since the movie is actually showing in New York right now, while it is not being shown yet nation-wide.

A recent article in Entertainment Weekly suggested that the studio is indeed marketing it specifically in the "heartland."

I agree with JIMG and Bubba that the movie is receiving a lot of hype, and I also agree that there are probably a number of people in Hollywood with a personal interest in the subject matter.

The leap I won't take is the suggestion that means it's not a great movie or not worth seeing. The other comment I can't agree with is that the only thing that matters is whether the movie sells a lot of tickets.

[GrantDawg]

Originally Posted by Bubba Wheels

I am afraid, however, that after all the hype about this particular movie regarding cowboys I will never be able to view the title of 'Blazing Saddles' again in quite the same way.

Best post by BW ever! Frame it and call it a day.

[Airhog]

Originally Posted by Flasch186

(BTW Im Jewish wherein a lot of the attacks came from Jews, just wanted to point that out)

No wonder you get all of the good hollywood roles

[Flasch186]

Originally Posted by Bubba Wheels

I am afraid, however, that after all the hype about this particular movie regarding cowboys I will never be able to view the title of 'Blazing Saddles' again in quite the same way.

You havnt even seen it!! Why arent you railing about Will & Grace. Perhaps cuz its funny? Do you not think gays existed back then? How bout now? You know gays exist right? So do Nazis? So do Christians...So a movie can be made about one group and be hyped and be good but not another, if it isnt on the Bubba scale. You are so biased. What makes you think anyone would actually listen or consider anything you say other than to be simply poisoned rhetoric?

[GrantDawg]

Originally Posted by cthomer5000

You are one sad motherfucker.

Oh, come on! That was funny.

[Easy Mac]

Originally Posted by Flasch186

You havnt even seen it!! Why arent you railing about Will & Grace. Perhaps cuz its funny? Do you not think gays existed back then? How bout now? You know gays exist right? So do Nazis? So do Christians...So a movie can be made about one group and be hyped and be good but not another, if it isnt on the Bubba scale. You are so biased. What makes you think anyone would actually listen or consider anything you say other than to be simply poisoned rhetoric?

you realize will and grace isn't actually funny.

[Cuckoo]

Originally Posted by GrantDawg

What's the original story line? I haven't heard.

Are you asking the plot of the movie?

It's a tragic romance between two cowboys who meet while watching sheep in the late 60's, I believe. They form a friendship as well as a sexual relationship. Both are trapped in fairly loveless marriages, though, and they have the occasional meeting over the years but are never able to be together. I won't go through the ending or all the details, but that's the general idea.

[Barkeep49]

Originally Posted by cthomer5000

This is what I'm not seeing. I live in New Jersey and work in New York City. I'm hearing 50x more about King Kong than I am about Brokeback Mountain. I've heard equally much about Syriana through my normal media outlets. I'm just not seeing what you guys are claiming is there, but perhaps it's regional. Of course that makes even less sense since the movie is actually showing in New York right now, while it is not being shown yet nation-wide.

Living in Chicago where it is also being shown I would have to agree that there has been far more Kong publicity, as one would expect, that Brokeback. The real question, however, is Brokeback recieving more publicity than other art films have recieved at this time of the year? It seems to me that some film always grabs the critics attention about this time as an Oscar hopeful, but I don't really have a firm enough recollection to decide one way or another.

That said, I think that Bubba, despite bring this up for his own reasons, does have a good point that there is a pretty big disconnect between the values espoused in this movie and that of most of America.

[cthomer5000]

Originally Posted by Easy Mac

Ummm, you realize $100,000 per screen is freaking huge right?

He's a moron, so of course not. Brokedback Mountain did 150% more per screen last night than King Kong did.

[Esquared1]

I figured this movie to be more of an expose, given Gunnery Sargent Hartman's belief that "there are only two things that come from Texas."

[Flasch186]

Originally Posted by Easy Mac

you realize will and grace isn't actually funny.

Will & Grace is halarious....especially the live episode. The wirting is so much better than 30% of the sit coms out there. Joey is awful (just throwin that out there) but Will & Grace is still very funny.

[Cuckoo]

Have to go with Easy Mac here. I have never found Will and Grace funny, and I could never understand the appeal of that show. In fact, I would go so far as to call it irritating.

Edit: There was a recent NBC promo where they were touting all of their great comedies over the years from Friends to Seinfeld to Cosby Show to Cheers. Then pops up Will and Grace, which seemed really out of place to me.

[st.cronin]

Will and Grace is awful - probably the worst popular tv show of my lifetime.

[MJ4H]

I've never even heard of this movie. Until this thread.

[Flasch186]

Originally Posted by Barkeep49

That said, I think that Bubba, despite bring this up for his own reasons, does have a good point that there is a pretty big disconnect between the values espoused in this movie and that of most of America.

Maybe absolutely true, your point, but thats why its a film and not a documentary. Not every movie is supposed to be a movie based on a true story.

[Easy Mac]

I've seen far more promotion for Syriana than I have for BareBack Mountain, but I've heard better things about the cowboys. Personal preference here, but I have no interest in seeing the movie, I just don't get a kick out of seeing guys kiss. Just a personal thing i have, I know the story may be great, but I don't want to see it. Same thing with Million Dollar Baby. Everyone said it kicks ass, but I just don't like Eastwood or Hillary Swank (my fiancee made me watch it, and I hated it.). I may see it eventually if the misses wants to (she loves Ledger and Gyllenhaal, and I love me some Anne Hathaway), but I doubt it.

[Flasch186]

Originally Posted by st.cronin

Will and Grace is awful - probably the worst popular tv show of my lifetime.

Well I'd like to think you are biased as well based on faith BUT if I post a poll and hear differently from a broad spectrum of people (BW pay attention its a statistics thing again) I could deduce that I am in the minority on this.

[Bubba Wheels]

Originally Posted by cthomer5000

He's a moron, so of course not. Brokedback Mountain did 150% more per screen last night than King Kong did.

Gee, lets see, more people dispersed over a greater number of screens might equal less gross-per-screen while still reaping in much larger profits overall. Regardless, pretty easy to look up the movie box offices grosses.

Have to laugh, though, on how a major motion picture with big stars setting out to be a main-stream movie is now suddenly being described by its advocates as an 'art-house' movie. All in the spin, I guess.

[Barkeep49]

Originally Posted by Flasch186

Maybe absolutely true, your point, but thats why its a film and not a documentary. Not every movie is supposed to be a movie based on a true story.

I'm not quite sure where you got the idea that I was saying that as I never reference the idea of fiction vs nonfiction in my post.

[Easy Mac]

Originally Posted by Flasch186

Will & Grace is halarious....especially the live episode. The wirting is so much better than 30% of the sit coms out there. Joey is awful (just throwin that out there) but Will & Grace is still very funny.

Comparing it to Joey is like comparing the Browns to the Texans. One may be head and shoulders above the other, but they still suck.

[Honolulu_Blue]

Wow, Bubba and Jon are upset at about a movie about gay people. Will wonders never cease?

Fellas, so long as there are folks like you around

Also, there are plenty of movies about gay people released every year that don't get any media hype at all. Anyone remember "Boat Trip"? Does the gay cowboy angle makes this movie unique? Sure it does. It's taking the American symbol of tough-guy masculinity - cowboys (see, eg, John Wayne and Clint Eastwood) - and giving it a bit of a... twist.

Now, I haven't seen the movie, but by all accounts it is incredibly well-made, which is not surprising given that it Ang Lee is directing it, and very well-acted, which is surprising given Heath Ledger is a lead, but not so surprising given that Jack Gyllenhall is the other.

All that said, so long as their are folks like Bubba and Jon in the world, a film like Brokeback Mountain will continue to get media hype. Keep on keepin' on, fellas...

[Easy Mac]

7

Originally Posted by Bubba Wheels

Gee, lets see, more people dispersed over a greater number of screens might equal less gross-per-screen while still reaping in much larger profits overall. Regardless, pretty easy to look up the movie box offices grosses.

You can't hold the number up as a failure and then say the number doesn't matter when you were completely wrong. And 100,000 per screen is the largest ever for a movie, whether it is in wide release or not. And comparing the # of screens doesn't matter, since Kong was supposed to be a blockbuster. Would it be fair to compare My Big Fat Greek Wedding and Minority Report? I think they made about the same, but most would argue The first was more successful because it started smaller.

[GrantDawg]

I love Will and Grace. Grace is hot. Everyone that says otherwise can bite me.

[Easy Mac]

Originally Posted by Barkeep49

That said, I think that Bubba, despite bring this up for his own reasons, does have a good point that there is a pretty big disconnect between the values espoused in this movie and that of most of America.

I haven't seen the movie, but from everything I've read its not promoting any values. Its generally just a good love story about people who couldn't be together, but it happens to be two gay guys out west. I'd say the subject is the point of disconnect, not any values promoted by the movie.

[GrantDawg]

Originally Posted by Easy Mac

7You can't hold the number up as a failure and then say the number doesn't matter when you were completely wrong. And 100,000 per screen is the largest ever for a movie, whether it is in wide release or not. And comparing the # of screens doesn't matter, since Kong was supposed to be a blockbuster. Would it be fair to compare My Big Fat Greek Wedding and Minority Report? I think they made about the same, but most would argue The first was more successful because it started smaller.

The first easily made more profit because it had a fraction of the cost of the second.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by Cuckoo

The leap I won't take is the suggestion that means it's not a great movie or not worth seeing.

Nor at any point have I argued whether the film has "technical merit" or whatever the appropriate phrase would be. To me, that's largely beside the point. It may or may not be well-written/well-acted/well-directed/ beautifully photographed, don't know & don't care.

Point is, this isn't the only movie that would fit any/all of those descriptions but those received lower levels of "mainstream" hype. And I believe the subject matter plays the biggest difference in that. The hype is meant to drive audiences & the audiences are meant to legitimize the lifestyle being portrayed. That's the agenda in play here, not some noble effort to get people to "see a good movie" or anything so benign.

It is what it is, and it really shouldn't be that big a shock that it's happening.
The aforemention Will & Grace benefitted from some of the sort of thing, just on a slightly lesser scale. But there's more prestige attached to film than sitcoms, so that's not surprising either. I guess what puzzles me still is why, when the Right has an agenda, there's not all that much denial about it but when the Left does it, the denial almost overshadows the agenda itself.

[Easy Mac]

Originally Posted by Honolulu_Blue

Now, I haven't seen the movie, but by all accounts it is incredibly well-made, which is not surprising given that it Ang Lee is directing it, and very well-acted, which is surprising given Heath Ledger is a lead, but not so surprising given that Jack Gyllenhall is the other.

I'd argue against this. Gyllenhaal has as much range as Chris Kaman. I love Donnie Darko, but its not related to his acting.