Congress and steroids in baseball.

SackAttack · 03-16-2005, 01:43 PM

Among the other furor - namely, who's going to testify? - I found this little snippet in an AP article:

Quote:

Originally Posted by Associated Press

Less than 24 hours before the start of the highly anticipated hearing, Jose Canseco's request for immunity was denied by the House Government Reform committee, which also revealed that baseball's drug-testing agreement contains a provision that testing would be "suspended immediately'' if the government conducts an independent investigation into drug use in baseball.

So, I have two questions here.

1) If Congress is really concerned about rooting out steroids in baseball, why conduct the investigation knowing that clause exists?

2) What's the point of that clause? To avoid creating evidence that Congress can then use to publicly reveal the cheaters?

rkmsuf · 03-16-2005, 01:49 PM

If that is written into the baseball rules I say shut the whole sport down.

It's run like a carnival.

Deattribution · 03-16-2005, 01:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rkmsuf

It's run like a carnival.

Congressional hearings start Thursday at 10 a.m. ET on ESPN.

ESPN's front page footnote.

Arles · 03-16-2005, 01:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SackAttack

1) If Congress is really concerned about rooting out steroids in baseball, why conduct the investigation knowing that clause exists?

I'll do you one better - why not focus on use in the minors/college, high school and American Legion teams? That's where you will be able to make a difference for the better. Then again, senators wouldn't get much grandstanding coverage talking to Joe Schmo American Legion coach as they would Jose Canseco.

Quote:

2) What's the point of that clause? To avoid creating evidence that Congress can then use to publicly reveal the cheaters?

From what I understand, baseball is allowed to track names, dates and results for every test per the collective bargaining. This was added to prevent players from being forced to potentially incriminate themselves by failing a test during a congressional investigation.

Another interesting sidenote on this is that congress originally asked specifically for the names of every player that failed a steroids test in the past few seasons. MLB fought this and eventually was able to provide the congressional group with simply the results with names blacked out.

The more that comes out on this, the more it seems like congress is more interesting in trying to expose players that cheated then they are in solving the problem (especially among young kids).

rkmsuf · 03-16-2005, 02:02 PM

Isn't exposing the cheaters working towards solving the problem?

How else can this be solved than from top down when the system clearly rewards professional players generously and laughs in the face of everyone? Great, kids are clean in high school, college, get to the show and roid up. Wonderful.

I mean f-ing a. Can't MLB do what's right in spite of some of their precious money and ridiculous infighting?

Fritz · 03-16-2005, 02:52 PM

1.) Congress grants immunity to get something from the people testifying. Why would they grant Canseco immunity when they have his book?

2.) If Congress has some interest in drug abuse in an industry, why in the world would they need a list of specific employees? If this were drug use in trucking, they probably wouldn't be looking at specific truckers.

Desnudo · 03-16-2005, 02:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rkmsuf

Isn't exposing the cheaters working towards solving the problem?

How else can this be solved than from top down when the system clearly rewards professional players generously and laughs in the face of everyone? Great, kids are clean in high school, college, get to the show and roid up. Wonderful.

I mean f-ing a. Can't MLB do what's right in spite of some of their precious money and ridiculous infighting?

If something like this happened to Barry Bonds, I think people would stop using steroids in a hurry:

SlapBone · 03-16-2005, 04:25 PM

Canseco is a money-grubbin publicity whore. He needs an ass-whippin for writing that book and this is NOT because he blew the cover off underground steroids use in MLB, it's because he's a loser that wrote a book that jammed everyone who may have called him a friend.

I agree that these guys need to get off the juice, but it's starting to turn into a witch-hunt.

Anthony · 03-16-2005, 05:07 PM

and rightfully so. they've profited immensely from the padded stats that juicing brings. don't go turning them into victims. if you want to feel sorry for someone, feel sorry for all the players who were legit and got pushed out of the league because their numbers weren't as gaudy as the roid-using players.

yabanci · 03-16-2005, 05:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SackAttack

....1) If Congress is really concerned about rooting out steroids in baseball, why conduct the investigation knowing that clause exists?....

Because congress doesn't care about that clause. If baseball wants to play hardball with congress, congress merely has to threaten the withdrawal of baseball's antitrust exemption and baseball will dance like a puppet on a string.

randal7 · 03-17-2005, 05:57 AM

This gives me hope for the future. I will sleep well knowing my elected representatives are hard at work on the serious issues of the day.

Ragone · 03-17-2005, 06:09 AM

Somewhere pete rose is smiling.. with jose canseco's book he's no longer the most despised man in baseball

Tekneek · 03-17-2005, 06:18 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ragone

Somewhere pete rose is smiling.. with jose canseco's book he's no longer the most despised man in baseball

But these steroid junkies have a better chance of getting into the Hall of Fame than Pete Rose does.

Ragone · 03-17-2005, 06:22 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tekneek

But these steroid junkies have a better chance of getting into the Hall of Fame than Pete Rose does.

Meanwhile Racist ty cobb and downright crook denny mcclain are in the hof..

yes.. lets maintain the integrity of the hof.. i just can't wait for the cream and clear wing of the Hall of fame to be built

HomerJSimpson · 03-17-2005, 06:35 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ragone

Meanwhile Racist ty cobb and downright crook denny mcclain are in the hof..

yes.. lets maintain the integrity of the hof.. i just can't wait for the cream and clear wing of the Hall of fame to be built

As much as I despise steroids, those players didn't have a sign they looked at every day that told them steroids would get them banned from baseball. Comparing them to Pete Rose is apples/oranges.

Ragone · 03-17-2005, 06:37 AM

A good step to getting roids outta baseball would be to say outfront.. anyone admitting to our testing positive to roids is barred from consideration from hof.. TAKE THAT BONDS! :P

HomerJSimpson · 03-17-2005, 06:38 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ragone

A good step to getting roids outta baseball would be to say outfront.. anyone admitting to our testing positive to roids is barred from consideration from hof.. TAKE THAT BONDS! :P

From this point forward. You couldn't make that retro-active.

Celeval · 03-17-2005, 09:17 AM

FYI, the hearings are live on CSPAN-3, or via RealPlayer at http://www.cspan.org/

Anthony · 03-17-2005, 09:27 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ragone

Meanwhile Racist ty cobb and downright crook denny mcclain are in the hof..

what does Cobb's personal views have to do with his statistics? you gonna ban people from the Hall based on where they stand on the abortion issue, too?

it's the Hall of Fame for baseball, not the Hall of Fame for political correctness.

rkmsuf · 03-17-2005, 09:33 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Celeval

FYI, the hearings are live on CSPAN-3, or via RealPlayer at http://www.cspan.org/

I wouldn't want to fight Eliajah Cummings.

Celeval · 03-17-2005, 09:34 AM

Possibly the first time Jim Bunting ever batted leadoff.

Klinglerware · 03-17-2005, 09:36 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hell Atlantic

what does Cobb's personal views have to do with his statistics?

Well, the argument could be made that if Cobb (maybe) or Cap Anson (definitely) tried to keep black players out of professional baseball--their stats benefitted from not having as high a level of competition as they could have had if black players were in the league...

rkmsuf · 03-17-2005, 09:37 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Celeval

Possibly the first time Jim Bunting ever batted leadoff.

He's pissed.

Philliesfan980 · 03-17-2005, 09:46 AM

I really hope that Congress does step in and take control of whats going on with the Baseball steriod mess, and mearly for selfish reasons. I'd love to go back to the days where 35 home runs actually meant something, and good team defense and a stolen base guy were valuable.

KWhit · 03-17-2005, 09:49 AM

Interesting stuff here:

According to the official baseball plan:

A player who fails a test - 1st offense:

10 day suspension

OR

A fine up to $10,000 (and the offender is NOT named).

So for a first offense, a player could be fined $1, not suspended, and not named. That is very different from what MLB has led us to believe.

Philliesfan980 · 03-17-2005, 09:57 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by KWhit

Interesting stuff here:

According to the official baseball plan:

A player who fails a test - 1st offense:

10 day suspension

OR

A fine up to $10,000 (and the offender is NOT named).

So for a first offense, a player could be fined $1, not suspended, and not named. That is very different from what MLB has led us to believe.

I love baseball, but I hate the players association, that plan is a complete joke. Comon Congress, kick their ass.

Klinglerware · 03-17-2005, 10:13 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Philliesfan980

I really hope that Congress does step in and take control of whats going on with the Baseball steriod mess, and mearly for selfish reasons. I'd love to go back to the days where 35 home runs actually meant something, and good team defense and a stolen base guy were valuable.

Not gonna happen--ballparks are too small, the astroturf is going away. Speed and defense are not going to be an important part of the game for the forseeable future...

Ksyrup · 03-17-2005, 10:15 AM

I hope they try to engage Jose Canseco in the same kind of light-hearted discussion that they are with Bunning...

"Mr. Canseco, before we start, let me just say that I enjoyed your defensive prowess on the baseball field. A bit of trivia, let me ask you, who was the pitcher who got charged with a HR after you misplayed that ball off your head and over the fence?"

rkmsuf · 03-17-2005, 11:08 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ksyrup

I hope they try to engage Jose Canseco in the same kind of light-hearted discussion that they are with Bunning...

"Mr. Canseco, before we start, let me just say that I enjoyed your defensive prowess on the baseball field. A bit of trivia, let me ask you, who was the pitcher who got charged with a HR after you misplayed that ball off your head and over the fence?"

Bunning is one of their own. I suspect they will turn the heat up on them just based on some of their opening statements.

I thought Bunning was less that brilliant up there though. An hour from him was way too much.

rkmsuf · 03-17-2005, 11:09 AM

Nora, I can't understand a f-ing word you are saying.

KWhit · 03-17-2005, 11:12 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rkmsuf

Bunning is one of their own. I suspect they will turn the heat up on them just based on some of their opening statements.

I thought Bunning was less that brilliant up there though. An hour from him was way too much.

I thought Bunning did an excellent job.

Klinglerware · 03-17-2005, 11:13 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rkmsuf

I thought Bunning was less that brilliant up there though.

Didn't Bunning almost lose the election last year because of allegations that he wasn't completely together mentally?

rkmsuf · 03-17-2005, 11:17 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Klinglerware

Didn't Bunning almost lose the election last year because of allegations that he wasn't completely together mentally?

No idea but he called the NFL "Major League Football".

He was ok...maybe it was just the length and the first question they asked him went right over his head and he went off on a stupid tangent about erasing records.

sterlingice · 03-17-2005, 11:28 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Philliesfan980

I love baseball, but I hate the players association, that plan is a complete joke. Comon Congress, kick their ass.

I agree but, wow, it's slimy. Rooting for Congress against the MLBPA (because you know if management had their way, they'd have a crazy policy tho for all the wrong reasons).

SI

KWhit · 03-17-2005, 11:35 AM

An interesting argument has been made a couple of times today.

The fact that steroid use is tolerated by MLB causes all players to feel the need to use steroids to compete. This causes the employees of MLB to go through serious health risks while on the job, causing an unsafe work environment.

A couple of hints have been dropped that this could lead to a rewriting of labor law to ensure tougher policies are instituted.

Fonzie · 03-17-2005, 11:43 AM

rkmsuf · 03-17-2005, 11:46 AM

dashing

KWhit · 03-17-2005, 11:47 AM

A scientist is shooting huge holes in MLB's new plan right now.

rkmsuf · 03-17-2005, 11:49 AM

Doctor catfight!

rkmsuf · 03-17-2005, 11:50 AM

Pellman got b*tchslapped!

bosshogg23 · 03-17-2005, 12:01 PM

Denny McClain is not in the Hall of Fame. He did several years in jail for his pension theft so he got what he deserved.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Klinglerware

Didn't Bunning almost lose the election last year because of allegations that he wasn't completely together mentally?

Ya Bunning's people didnt let him have press conferences with open questions. This during the middle of a campaign. He is off his rocker apparently.

rkmsuf · 03-17-2005, 12:02 PM

oh, Pellman, Pellman, Pellman.

Major League Baseball Advisor extrodinaire.

Strike one MLB.

What a boob. Not only has he no clue, he's darn annoying the way he's talking.

KWhit · 03-17-2005, 01:27 PM

The players are coming into the room now.

Fonzie · 03-17-2005, 01:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by KWhit

The players are coming into the room now.

Are McGwire and Canseco both in the room?

I'd love to see a good ol' fashioned rhubarb erupt.

Celeval · 03-17-2005, 01:35 PM

Yep, all the players are lined up apparently at the same table.

How long has Sosa been here? He's having his interpreter read his statement? Heh.

KWhit · 03-17-2005, 01:35 PM

Sosa denies ever using steroids.

rkmsuf · 03-17-2005, 01:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Celeval

Yep, all the players are lined up apparently at the same table.

How long has Sosa been here? He's having his interpreter read his statement? Heh.

it's his lawyer and I'm sure Sosa understands every word and speaks perfect english when needed.

Fonzie · 03-17-2005, 01:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by KWhit

Sosa denies ever using steroids.

Really, Sammy? Well, I guess that settles that. Thanks for coming!

KWhit · 03-17-2005, 01:38 PM

McGwire seems like he is about to cry.

rkmsuf · 03-17-2005, 01:39 PM

McGwire is crying. Are you sh*tting me?

There's no crying in Congressional hearings!

03-16-2005, 01:49 PM	#2
rkmsuf Head Coach Join Date: Dec 2001	If that is written into the baseball rules I say shut the whole sport down. It's run like a carnival. __________________ "Don't you have homes?" -- Judge Smales

03-16-2005, 02:02 PM	#5
rkmsuf Head Coach Join Date: Dec 2001	Isn't exposing the cheaters working towards solving the problem? How else can this be solved than from top down when the system clearly rewards professional players generously and laughs in the face of everyone? Great, kids are clean in high school, college, get to the show and roid up. Wonderful. I mean f-ing a. Can't MLB do what's right in spite of some of their precious money and ridiculous infighting? __________________ "Don't you have homes?" -- Judge Smales Last edited by rkmsuf : 03-16-2005 at 02:02 PM.

03-16-2005, 02:52 PM	#6
Fritz Lethargic Hooligan Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: hello kitty found my wallet at a big tent revival and returned it with all the cash missing	1.) Congress grants immunity to get something from the people testifying. Why would they grant Canseco immunity when they have his book? 2.) If Congress has some interest in drug abuse in an industry, why in the world would they need a list of specific employees? If this were drug use in trucking, they probably wouldn't be looking at specific truckers. __________________ donkey, donkey, walk a little faster

03-17-2005, 10:15 AM	#28
Ksyrup This guy has posted so much, his fingers are about to fall off. Join Date: Nov 2000 Location: In Absentia	I hope they try to engage Jose Canseco in the same kind of light-hearted discussion that they are with Bunning... "Mr. Canseco, before we start, let me just say that I enjoyed your defensive prowess on the baseball field. A bit of trivia, let me ask you, who was the pitcher who got charged with a HR after you misplayed that ball off your head and over the fence?" __________________ M's pitcher Miguel Batista: "Now, I feel like I've had everything. I've talked pitching with Sandy Koufax, had Kenny G play for me. Maybe if I could have an interview with God, then I'd be served. I'd be complete." Last edited by Ksyrup : 03-17-2005 at 10:15 AM.

03-17-2005, 11:09 AM	#30
rkmsuf Head Coach Join Date: Dec 2001	Nora, I can't understand a f-ing word you are saying. __________________ "Don't you have homes?" -- Judge Smales

03-16-2005, 04:25 PM	#8
SlapBone High School JV Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: Houston, Texas	Canseco is a money-grubbin publicity whore. He needs an ass-whippin for writing that book and this is NOT because he blew the cover off underground steroids use in MLB, it's because he's a loser that wrote a book that jammed everyone who may have called him a friend. I agree that these guys need to get off the juice, but it's starting to turn into a witch-hunt.

03-16-2005, 05:07 PM	#9
Anthony Banned Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: Astoria, NY, USA	and rightfully so. they've profited immensely from the padded stats that juicing brings. don't go turning them into victims. if you want to feel sorry for someone, feel sorry for all the players who were legit and got pushed out of the league because their numbers weren't as gaudy as the roid-using players.

03-17-2005, 05:57 AM	#11
randal7 H.S. Freshman Team Join Date: Nov 2003	This gives me hope for the future. I will sleep well knowing my elected representatives are hard at work on the serious issues of the day.

03-17-2005, 06:09 AM	#12
Ragone Pro Rookie Join Date: May 2002 Location: Kansas City, Mo	Somewhere pete rose is smiling.. with jose canseco's book he's no longer the most despised man in baseball

03-17-2005, 06:37 AM	#16
Ragone Pro Rookie Join Date: May 2002 Location: Kansas City, Mo	A good step to getting roids outta baseball would be to say outfront.. anyone admitting to our testing positive to roids is barred from consideration from hof.. TAKE THAT BONDS! :P

03-17-2005, 09:17 AM	#18
Celeval Pro Starter Join Date: Nov 2000 Location: Cary, NC, USA	FYI, the hearings are live on CSPAN-3, or via RealPlayer at http://www.cspan.org/

03-17-2005, 09:34 AM	#21
Celeval Pro Starter Join Date: Nov 2000 Location: Cary, NC, USA	Possibly the first time Jim Bunting ever batted leadoff.

03-17-2005, 09:46 AM	#24
Philliesfan980 Banned Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: Exton, PA	I really hope that Congress does step in and take control of whats going on with the Baseball steriod mess, and mearly for selfish reasons. I'd love to go back to the days where 35 home runs actually meant something, and good team defense and a stolen base guy were valuable.

03-17-2005, 09:49 AM	#25
KWhit Coordinator Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: Conyers GA	Interesting stuff here: According to the official baseball plan: A player who fails a test - 1st offense: 10 day suspension OR A fine up to $10,000 (and the offender is NOT named). So for a first offense, a player could be fined $1, not suspended, and not named. That is very different from what MLB has led us to believe.

03-17-2005, 11:35 AM	#35
KWhit Coordinator Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: Conyers GA	An interesting argument has been made a couple of times today. The fact that steroid use is tolerated by MLB causes all players to feel the need to use steroids to compete. This causes the employees of MLB to go through serious health risks while on the job, causing an unsafe work environment. A couple of hints have been dropped that this could lead to a rewriting of labor law to ensure tougher policies are instituted.

03-17-2005, 11:43 AM	#36
Fonzie Pro Rookie Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: Illinois

03-17-2005, 11:46 AM	#37
rkmsuf Head Coach Join Date: Dec 2001	dashing __________________ "Don't you have homes?" -- Judge Smales

03-17-2005, 11:47 AM	#38
KWhit Coordinator Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: Conyers GA	A scientist is shooting huge holes in MLB's new plan right now.

03-17-2005, 11:49 AM	#39
rkmsuf Head Coach Join Date: Dec 2001	Doctor catfight! __________________ "Don't you have homes?" -- Judge Smales

03-17-2005, 11:50 AM	#40
rkmsuf Head Coach Join Date: Dec 2001	Pellman got b*tchslapped! __________________ "Don't you have homes?" -- Judge Smales

03-17-2005, 12:02 PM	#42
rkmsuf Head Coach Join Date: Dec 2001	oh, Pellman, Pellman, Pellman. Major League Baseball Advisor extrodinaire. Strike one MLB. What a boob. Not only has he no clue, he's darn annoying the way he's talking. __________________ "Don't you have homes?" -- Judge Smales

03-17-2005, 01:27 PM	#43
KWhit Coordinator Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: Conyers GA	The players are coming into the room now.

03-17-2005, 01:35 PM	#45
Celeval Pro Starter Join Date: Nov 2000 Location: Cary, NC, USA	Yep, all the players are lined up apparently at the same table. How long has Sosa been here? He's having his interpreter read his statement? Heh.

03-17-2005, 01:38 PM	#49
KWhit Coordinator Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: Conyers GA	McGwire seems like he is about to cry.

03-17-2005, 01:39 PM	#50
rkmsuf Head Coach Join Date: Dec 2001	McGwire is crying. Are you shtting me? There's no crying in Congressional hearings! __________________ "Don't you have homes?" -- Judge Smales Last edited by rkmsuf : 03-17-2005 at 01:40 PM.*

Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)