Would someone please explain the appeal of auto racing?

[Schmidty]

I tried to watch a race again recently, but was ultimately unsuccessful. The monotony of watching cars driving in never-ending circles seemed to almost knock a few IQ points out of my head. As I sat there trying to not fall asleep, this question came to my mind: What in the world do racing fans find interesting or entertaining in the "sport"?

[sabotai]

They get to do what everyone else wants to do. Drive real fucking fast.

[EagleFan]

You either like it or you don't, end of story. It seems to make you feel better about yourself by knocking those who do (your little IQ remark), so if that's what gets you through the day than more power to you.

[sooner333]

There have been points where I've wanted to watch auto racing...and like it. I have a favorite NASCAR driver, but really don't follow the action on a weekly basis. I think its because of my general lack of knowledge about cars and what makes them do better than others. And the fact that its part driver, part car. The cars aren't all the same, which means not everyone is on an equal playing field. But if they all had the same car, there wouldn't be that mystery. So...I don't know, maybe I should watch and learn...or be productive and stop watching yet another sport.

[Schmidty]

Originally posted by EagleFan
You either like it or you don't, end of story. It seems to make you feel better about yourself by knocking those who do (your little IQ remark), so if that's what gets you through the day than more power to you.

No need to be so sensitive, I just don't understand the appeal of racing, and would like to be able to. I figure there has to be something redeeming about a sport that is so popular, and I'd just like to know what to look for in it. Should I be watching the front of the pack, should I be watching the back of the pack, or should I pay close attention to the pit stops? What is it about racing that intrigues so many people?

I just really want to understand the sport better.

[MrBug708]

Booze and the wrecks

Plus all of the sponsorship

Having said that, I have no idea why

[Airhog]

Until recently I didnt care much for it, but now I enjoy it. Iwill admit, watching the first 300 laps can be boring.

I think that nascar in paticular is one of the hardest sports to win in. The cars have all gotten so close in the last 10 years. It really takes alot of luck to win an event. So it feels more special when your favorite driver wins a race, much more so because some drivers win maybe one race a year or less.

Another appealing aspect is that a good driver can only do so much. Auto racing is one of the few sports in the world that you can be the best driver in the sport, but never win a race. Drivers are so dependent on their crew and their car, much more so than any other athlete.

[Fritz]

Everyone one says you have to go to a race to really get it.

I've been there and it is still boring as hell, except for all the fucked up hicks.

The end of a race is like Marti Gras for women with missing teeth and tattoos of cutlery on their breasts.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Schmidty you'll have to understand that racing fans (and NASCAR fans in particular IMO) have been ripped on so many times that we can be a bit sensitive toward what seems like criticism, even if the question doesn't have any real malice in it.

That said, the appeal of NASCAR really is something that's hard to define in just a few words. And every fan probably ranks the factors in differing order too.

I grew up as a casual fan, back when every race didn't even get radio coverage much less television. I think my interest then was probably attributable to the regional appeal of the sport combined with the few strong personalities that were at the top. You either loved Richard Petty or hated him. I fell into the latter group & always cheered David Pearson.

In my late teens & beyond, it became more complex than that. Somewhere along the way, NASCAR passed every other sport to become my favorite (although I really don't know exactly when that happened).

Above all, I think I'm drawn by the people & the personalities. The most accessable group of athletes in the world, the most fan friendly IMO. If you're within driving distance of a track in the days leading up to a race, you've got chances to meet the drivers at one of the many sponsor appearances they put in. Combined with the mass media access of today, you get a pretty good feel for not only how these guys drive but whether you'd want to have 'em come over for dinner or hang out at your 4th of July bar-b-que.

On-track, there's the appeal of never knowing who'll win, not until the checkered flag waves. Dave Bliss running out of fuel on the final lap of last week's Busch race is a great example, it's ain't over 'til it's really over. And that lends itself to tremendous tension.

Then there's pit strategy, random acts of mechanical failure (more tension), and driver skill all adding to the chess match as the race progresses.

On a simpler level, I think most people like cars that go fast. And a lot of people like the risk associated with speed. And simple aesthetics, as the cars are simply quite pretty to look at (especially under the lights). And nearly everybody can relate in some way to what's being done, at least everybody who's driven a car.

I wish I had a simple, easy-to-follow, answer for you Schmidty, but the truth is, it isn't one or two things, it's more the way everything fits together in combination.

[Samdari]

Originally posted by JonInMiddleGA
athletes

Hehe, he called NASCAR drivers athletes. Hehe.

[Tekneek]

I don't think I would be up to the challenge of driving a car in any of the top racing circuits for the duration of an entire race. Maybe you can, since you make fun of calling them atheletes. Would you prefer a different word be used? What would it be?

For all of the talk about hicks, you would think NASCAR was the only racing circuit in the entire world. Are you saying everyone at a Champ Car or IRL race is a hick? Everyone at a Formula One race is a hick? The way some of you spit out generalizations is stunning.

I don't follow racing that closely, mostly because I work every single Saturday and Sunday, so I never see the races and am not such a diehard that I would record them. My interest in it breaks down sort of like this. I like the skill of the different drivers, and when they have the chance to demonstrate some of that technical aptitude. I do enjoy some of the strategy aspects of it, like when to pit, what work to do each time they pit, and so on. I like the team aspect of it, where if the entire team is not together, and hitting everything just right, they pretty much don't have a chance at winning the race.

I prefer open-wheel racing to stock cars, personally, but know enough about the Winston Cup series to know what is going on. My father-in-law is a big racing fan, having grown up going to the Indy 500 every year, so he is able to fill in the blanks when I have a question and I have gained a deeper understanding of what is really going on out there. There really is a lot more to it than just guys going around in a circle.

The way you guys talk about racing is the way some women talk about football. "So, they just stand around, and then run into each other? Sometimes some guy dances around, and some guy keeps putting his hands in the other guy's crotch? This is a sport?"

[cmp]

I think Tekneek put it perfectly in his message.

But if you don't understand it, don't find it interesting, at least stop making fun of the people who do find it to be an interesting sport and enjoy watching it. I know there are some people on this board who find soccer interesting. I myself do not. Personally I find it somewhat boring. But I don't rip on soccer fans and say things like "fucked up hicks" when I talk about their fans.

So if you don't like auto racing, find it boring or whatever, just don't worry about it then. Let the people who like watching the sport enjoy it.

[kcchief19]

I must admit that I bristle at the notion that auto racing is a "sport" and the drivers are "athletes." I view auto racing as a competition, more aligned with playing cards or video games than football or basketball. I drove from Springfield to St. Louis in the middle of July in a black 1978 Bobcat with no air conditioning. I am no athlete, but that is all the endurance you need to be a race car driver. Make sure you hit the head before you strap yourself in and you're ready to go for a few hours.

I'm certain that part of it is my mindset. I cannot think of any sport I enjoy where the sole goal is to do something the fastest. I don't like auto racing. The only thing possibly more boring than auto racing is watching track. Running around in circles? Yeesh.

Back when I played ball, I had a coach who would time us both in 90-foot sprints and from the batter's box to first base. Without fail, when I was running to first after a hit, I was faster than running a standard sprint. Unless there was a greater goal in mind, I simply didn't have the desire to perform.

I respect the heck out of someone who is well-conditioned enough to run a mile at a fast clip or run a marathon. I also understand that NASCAR fans chaff at the stereotypes. But don't defend the "sport" by calling these guys athletes.

[Tekneek]

Are you really saying the effects on your car drive were the same kind of effects working on a human being during an auto race? Are you honestly saying they are exactly the same?

Along the same line of thinking, not all baseball players are athletes either. Cecil Fielder was no athlete. Kirby Puckett was no athlete. David Wells isn't an athlete.

I am willing to concede that people who participate in sports do not have to be athletes. I also know that driving a car on a highway without air conditioning does not subject your body to the same effects that you endure in an auto race. To say that it does displays an amazing amount of ignorance and arrogance.

EDIT: - I would even offer up that it takes more fitness to race competitively in the top circuits than it does to pitch in the American League. I am leaving the National League off, since the pitchers actually have to bat and run the bases in that league.

[rexallllsc]

Originally posted by Fritz
Everyone one says you have to go to a race to really get it.

I've been there and it is still boring as hell, except for all the fucked up hicks.

The end of a race is like Marti Gras for women with missing teeth and tattoos of cutlery on their breasts.

When the California Speedway opened up in Fontana, two friends and myself went to check out the inagural race...same experience as Fritz...boring.

Not to invalidate others' feelings about the sport...

[JonInMiddleGA]

Rather than sidetrack this discussion (as usually happens) with the whole "athletes" debate, how about I just designate 'em as "competitors" for the purpose of the topic at hand?

Then we can have the whole unsolvable "athlete" debate some other time.

[Tekneek]

Baseball and the NBA are terribly boring things to me. Watching golf is less interesting than watching paint dry. That doesn't mean those are crap sports and I should ridicule anyone who plays them or watches them.

[JonInMiddleGA]

FWIW, I'm not a big fan of the at-the-track experience myself.

There's too much of the actual competition you can't see, and at least at some tracks there's the distraction of knowing it takes longer to exit the parking lot than the race actually lasts to detract from the enjoyment.

[cmp]

Originally posted by rexallllsc
When the California Speedway opened up in Fontana, two friends and myself went to check out the inagural race...same experience as Fritz...boring.

Not to invalidate others' feelings about the sport...

I can understand your feelings there. California isn't the most exciting track on the circuit. I have gone to Michigan, which is the sister track to California, a few times. A couple times there was some very exciting racing. But there can also be some very boring racing.

[cthomer5000]

Originally posted by JonInMiddleGA
Rather than sidetrack this discussion (as usually happens) with the whole "athletes" debate, how about I just designate 'em as "competitors" for the purpose of the topic at hand?

Then we can have the whole unsolvable "athlete" debate some other time.

for me it's easy. if animals or machines are involved, it is not a sport.

[Marmel]

This thread may not have answered Schmidty's question, but it did answer the question of what sport has the most sensative fans. Carry on.

[Airhog]

I would have to agree that they are athletes. These guys regularly subject themselves to 2 G's over a long period of time. They also have to wistand tempratures over 110 degrees inside their car for several hours. Look at mark martin one of the fittest drivers. He has something like 6 or 7% body fat. now that is being in shape. Just because they dont exert alot of phyiscal strength I still think they are athelets for the things above.

[Bishop]

Same could be said for almost any sport, its just whatever appeals to you.... Like baseball for instance, that is the most boring sport in the world to me.


But anyway, some people like that most of the better drivers have different personalities, some are clean an others are dirty racers.. then all the history, plus you really never know who's gonna win.

You can't really buy a championship or a win, and teams don't fall apart at the end of the year because of a salary cap.

So it can be fun to pick out a driver, usually your favorite one an just root for him through the race.

Till you watch it a few times, and really pick up on who is who it can be pretty boring yeah.

That can really be said for any sport, football wouldn't be as fun if I didn't hate the Raiders and like the Jets ect ect....

[cmp]

I can see why some people can't seem to enjoy auto racing. Personally, the reason I enjoy it more is that I have a hometown driver to root for. Johnny Benson started racing around the Grand Rapids area and I watched him when he was in the ASA series in the early 90's. Without him in NASCAR I may not be as big of a fan. Without a favorite driver to root for it may not be as interesting.

[mckerney]

Did anyone else read Rick Reilly's article about all the people who went to Dale Ernhardt's garage on his birtday?

What a bunch of sad and pathetic people....

[Happy29]

Yes, these guys are in the car for four hours, no radio, no food, no drinks I have to agree these guys are athletes too because I'm a fan, but a bit more mental than physical are they athletes. What other fans don't know is that it's the car they're really worshipping, during the race, they could care less about the guy inside. I'm saying this because I'm not one of the real real real hardcore fans in the south who basically use it to resolve all of life's problems but I'm saying that NASCAR drivers are athletes from an ethical perspective.

We all consider Golfers athletes, we all consider curlers athletes, hell, yes we do consider auto racing drivers athletes but the argument just keeps going on.

We have Robby Gordon in NASCAR goin to drive the IRL Indy 500 and the Coca Cola 600 in the same day, totalling 1100 miles. Unless Robby gave up pizzas a long time ago, he'll be dead by 503. If you dont think that's the spirit of an athlete or close to it, I don't know who or what is.

An answer to McKerney's question, hey I'm a Dale Earnhardt fan, people find ways to immortalize their favorite driver. Some people would agree with you if you say "Oh these people are worshipping a dead guy blah blah blah". I don't mind really, this is a message board and I want you to speak your mind but there are people who want to find ways to immortalize their favorite athlete be they dead or not, I'm just saying.

[mckerney]

Originally posted by Happy29
We all consider Golfers athletes, we all consider curlers athletes, hell, yes we do consider auto racing drivers athletes but the argument just keeps going on.

We do?

[Happy29]

Yeah, anything can be considered a sport this modern day and age

[Tekneek]

I bet golfers do a lot more in 3 rounds of golf than the average DH-only baseball player does in a week.

[Happy29]

They probably get more exercise than the average pitcher too.

[lynchjm24]

Originally posted by Happy29

We all consider Golfers athletes, we all consider curlers athletes, hell, yes we do consider auto racing drivers athletes but the argument just keeps going on.

You can drop the we - because that's nonsense.

[TargetPractice6]

sport
n.
Physical activity that is governed by a set of rules or customs and often engaged in competitively

athlete
n.
a person trained to compete in sports

[illinifan999]

NASCAR rules!

[sterlingice]

Originally posted by TargetPractice6
sport
n.
Physical activity that is governed by a set of rules or customs and often engaged in competitively

athlete
n.
a person trained to compete in sports

{now entering the nit-picking zone}
There is the small problem with that simplistic of a definition. If I worked at the local UPS distribution center and was racing a co-worker to see who could move the most boxes in 10 minutes, is that a sport? By that definition it is.

SI

[Samdari]

FWIW, I was not trying to ridicule anyone who is a fan. Not everyone would agree with my entertainment choices either. Fritz' are illegal in many states. If it entertains you, watch, I don't care. (as per Jon pointing out that the debate is pointless, reasons deleted) I don't consider it a sport, just an entertainment outlet, the entertainment value of which escapes me.

[klayman]

Well, I consider them athletes. But then again, I consider myself an athlete, and all I do is eat and surf the net all day, so my opinion probably doesn't count.

[tucker342]

To sit in a car for a few hours in those kinds of conditions, doesn't mean you are physically an athelete, but I will say that mentally they are.

[ISiddiqui]

for me it's easy. if animals or machines are involved, it is not a sport.

Try saying it to equestrian riders . I believe RUET practices on Cook College... just don't stand too close to their horses when you do say it .

[JonInMiddleGA]

Hey mckerney, is it alright with you if people memorialize, grieve or simply remember something/someone they respected in their own way?

I find it interesting that you took away a negative impression of those fans from Reilly's piece, considering Reilly has spoken highly of Earnhardt & racing in general.

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/inside_game/magazine/life_of_reilly/news/2001/02/20/life_of_reilly/

It's the only day of the year the garage is open to the public, although now I guess shrine/museum is a better description than garage. And I'd bet there was more than a fair share of first time visitors there this year. If I ever happen to catch myself with a way to schedule myself into the area, I might just stop by myself.

Not because of any unhealthy obsession about Dale Earnhardt, but for the same reasons people visit other museums or birthplaces or gravesites. I know that I still can't see the #3 logo without remembering what it felt like to lose him from the sport, I know that I never see a 3rd lap of a race without having him cross my mind, and I know that I wasn't even among the most fervent of Earnhardt fans. I had to get older before I could appreciate him I guess. But I know this -- if it impacted me as much as it did emotionally, I can only imagine what it was like for those who'd been sold-out fans for years.

Judge 'em how you like mckerney, but I'd advise you only to do it within the anonymous confines of the internet. You make that comment to a fan in person & you might just be picking yourself up off the floor. And it'd probably be best if you just stayed down, 'cause you might be knocked on your ass three times, just because it'd be the appropriate number.

[CHEMICAL SOLDIER]

The debate never ends .

[Anrhydeddu]

Never, in a million years, thought I would see auto racing and chess match in the same sentence.

Jon, I have told people face to face how pathetic they were for wanting to visit Elvis' shrine and his shag carpeted ceilings in Memphis. Just like I have to race fans. They just laugh because they know they are rather peculiar breeds of folks. But then again, I tend not to talk to true redneck Southerners, they scare me.

[Kodos]

I don't watch any racing these days, but as a kid, dad used to take us to see the local modified racers at Spencer Speedway in New York. It was pretty cool. Modifieds are cool looking cars, and the races were always exciting. It was a good way to spend a Friday night as a kid. So, while I don't watch racing myself anymore, I can see its appeal I guess. Once in a while, they'd have a smash-up derby too. Destroying cars is always good for a laugh. If only they didn't have that stupid Chuckles the Clown...

Now, what I really don't understand is the appeal of fake wrestling. Now THERE is something that just has to kill brain cells by the million. It literally gives me a headache to watch even 5 minutes of it. Ugh.

[QuikSand]

Isn't it possible to argue, at the same time, that:

-competitors in some activity are not athletes, but

-what they do requires skills, and is indeed meritorious?


Just because someone might argue that _______ (car drivers, golfers, bowlers, dart-throwers, whatever the debate is this week) are not athletes doesn't necessarily mean that their feats aren't worthwhile.

In this case, I'd like to leave room for the answer "What race car drivers do requires skill and stamina that most people don't have, but they aren't athletes in the traditional sense of the word."

[mckerney]

Originally posted by JonInMiddleGA
Hey mckerney, is it alright with you if people memorialize, grieve or simply remember something/someone they respected in their own way?

I find it interesting that you took away a negative impression of those fans from Reilly's piece, considering Reilly has spoken highly of Earnhardt & racing in general.

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/ins...ife_of_reilly/

It's the only day of the year the garage is open to the public, although now I guess shrine/museum is a better description than garage. And I'd bet there was more than a fair share of first time visitors there this year. If I ever happen to catch myself with a way to schedule myself into the area, I might just stop by myself.

Not because of any unhealthy obsession about Dale Earnhardt, but for the same reasons people visit other museums or birthplaces or gravesites. I know that I still can't see the #3 logo without remembering what it felt like to lose him from the sport, I know that I never see a 3rd lap of a race without having him cross my mind, and I know that I wasn't even among the most fervent of Earnhardt fans. I had to get older before I could appreciate him I guess. But I know this -- if it impacted me as much as it did emotionally, I can only imagine what it was like for those who'd been sold-out fans for years.

Judge 'em how you like mckerney, but I'd advise you only to do it within the anonymous confines of the internet. You make that comment to a fan in person & you might just be picking yourself up off the floor. And it'd probably be best if you just stayed down, 'cause you might be knocked on your ass three times, just because it'd be the appropriate number.

I'm not talking about people who were fans that memorialed him, but the people who camping outside the garage before it opens. How come it's alright to call people who wait camp outside before Star Wars opens crazy and not these people? Can't we just diagnose this as a mental disorder? When Korey Stringer died people mourned, but no one (that I know of anyway) has camped outside the where he lifted weights and trained to play football so they can see the area. And if anyone would, I'd call them wacko too. Why the hell can't we just call crazy people crazy?

And as for your last comment, if someone called down the thunder like that they'd get it well before they would even be able to consider knocking me down a second time.

[JonInMiddleGA]

So people who camp out for concert/movie tickets are called crazy? Hmm, don't think I've ever heard that one before, Grateful Dead fans are one possible exception I suppose. The next most obsessive group of fans I can think of would be Parrot Heads, but I don't think I've ever really heard them knocked for their fanaticsm either.

Sorry mckerney, but I found your comment offensive & worth being called on. But knock yourself out, that's what ignore is for.

[kcchief19]

Originally posted by Tekneek
I also know that driving a car on a highway without air conditioning does not subject your body to the same effects that you endure in an auto race. To say that it does displays an amazing amount of ignorance and arrogance.

EDIT: - I would even offer up that it takes more fitness to race competitively in the top circuits than it does to pitch in the American League. I am leaving the National League off, since the pitchers actually have to bat and run the bases in that league.

I feel like a Wig. My efforts at sarcasm were completely lost. Then again, have you ever driven for four hours in a black-on-black 1978 Bobcat with no air condition in the Missouri summer in 104-degree heat?

It takes more fitness to race competitively in the top circuits than it does to pitch in the American League? Unbelieveable. Richard Petty raced for 35 years until he was 55. Dale Earnhardt was 50 and still racing when he died. Others have raced well into their 50s as well. Only one player in major league history played past 50 that wasn't a stunt of some sort (Satchel Paige, for example).

Any activity in which a guy damn near 60 years old can compete with a 20-year-old is probably not a sport.

QS gave what I would deem an accurate and acceptable answer to the question of auto racing's status as a sport. But here's the thing: just because I don't like auto racing or I don't think it's a sport is no reason to get your panties in a wad. So what if somebody doesn't like auto racing or doesn't think it's a sport? Why is that so threatening?

IMHO, auto racing fans are probably the second touchiest fans in "sports" behind only soccer fans and ahead of hockey fans. Tell a soccer fan you don't like soccer and you'll be wishing you were talking to Dell Griffith about shower rings.

[Dutch]

Autoracing is a sport. I'd go so far as to say that the F1 series is probably on par with Soccer as the most competative of the high stakes competitions in the world.

When you are sitting on pole in an F1 race, you are supposed to win. That driver is under so much pressure from the fans, the team, the sponsors, the media, that it's a wonder he has time to worry about that guy in the #2 spot...or the #3 spot or anywhere else in the starting grid for that matter. F1 not only requires great agility, awareness, and feel on the part of the driver, but it requires a true focus you simply don't need in other sports.

The ability to take the quickest vehicle in sport around a road or street course on the edge of capability for one lap is impressive. To do it for 70 while battling for position is absolutely amazing.

I'm not going to sit here and argue that race car drivers are athletes, who cares, they are competators, and that's good enough for me.

I would argue that while Football players are athletes, I'd tend to wonder how true of a sport the NFL is these days with salary caps, free agency, reverse order drafting, money sharing, and every other attempt to make all the teams equal. A true sport would allow the (Dallas Cowboys) the best opportunity to field anybody they wanted, reign supreme, and dare the rest of the league to knock them down. But we all know that a team nowadays can be good for a year or two, but then "it's time to go and give somebody else a chance." That's borderline choreography.

[Samdari]

Originally posted by QuikSand
Isn't it possible to argue, at the same time, that:

-competitors in some activity are not athletes, but

-what they do requires skills, and is indeed meritorious?


Just because someone might argue that _______ (car drivers, golfers, bowlers, dart-throwers, whatever the debate is this week) are not athletes doesn't necessarily mean that their feats aren't worthwhile.

In this case, I'd like to leave room for the answer "What race car drivers do requires skill and stamina that most people don't have, but they aren't athletes in the traditional sense of the word."

Very nice argument kickstand. A nice break from the tired, old, and completely wrong "if you can't do it, its a sport" argument. I have a very deep knowledge of of optical physics, which is indeed meritorious, and a fairly rare skill, but me sitting in front of my computer all day is far from athletic (my waistline pushes me further from the keyboard almost daily).

On the other side of the coin, nuclear physics and knitting are both far, far beyond me. Both are meritorious in their own right (nothing is quite as comforting as a hand-knitted afghan on a cold day) but people with those skills are not athletes simply because the average person does not have them.

A better analogy perhaps is a backhoe operator. Take me away from my photons, and put me on one of those, and I could do some serious damage. Yet, they perform services critical to maintaining the country's (nay, the world's) infrastructure. Their skills have merit. NASCAR drivers are similar, they operate a machine, one that the average citizen could not hope to operate effectively. Their operation of those machines provides entertainment to a huge number of people, also a service with merit. Neither the backhoe operator, nor the driver, however is an athlete.

[Buzzbee]

To answer the QUESTION that was posed at the start of this thread, I can't tell you why some people are avid racing fans. I also cannot tell you why others think it is as exciting as watching grass grow. I CAN tell you why I like NASCAR. There are several reasons.

The first is that I have favorite drivers. Having someone to pull for REALLY makes the race more exciting for me. Especially when my driver is doing well. I think most of us here can probably relate. Take your favorite sport, whether it be football, basketball, hockey, soccer or whatever. Do you find yourself more emotionally involved when you are watching your favorite team than when you are watching a game between teams that you really don't care about? Would you watch a football game between Princeton and Harvard JUST because it is football? I'm guessing not. Same with racing. If you don't have any emotional involvement, then yes, it is just a bunch of guys going around in circles. I believe that with most any sport, we like it because there was something that initially pulled us in. It might be a person from your hometown who made it big. Or maybe getting an autograph from a player who was really nice to you and so now you pull for that player or team. Or it might be a hometown team. But SOMETHING drew you in. Same with racing. There has to be a hook. A favorite driver is usually the hook.

Another reason I like NASCAR is the technical aspect. The cars are amazingly complex and a great deal of engineering goes into their manufacture. To think that the cars are so finely tuned and so precise that simply adding one pound of air pressure in one of the tires can change the way the car handles astounds me. And to think that the drivers can notice the change and adjust accordingly also impresses me. However, this is one of those things that just simply may not interest everyone.

I hope I gave you some good feedback.

[QuikSand]

Samdari, I don't disagree with anything you state above. I infer from your tone that you are attempting to correct me... but I think we're in the same place.

The only subtlety I'd insiston, though, is that there's a difference between a "competitor" in something and a "participant" in something. I don't think anyone would reasonably argue that a backhoe operator in a typical workday is an athlete. He's not "a competitor" in any sense of the word, athletic or otherwise. That difference eliminates the whole class of "people with unusual skills" unless they are using those skills in some sort of competition. (And yes, I'm aware that some athletic events are not strictly competitive, but I think a well-formed definition of "competition" can resolve that incongruity)

You and I agree that drivers aren't athletes. My point is just that in reaching this conclusion, we don't necessarily have to be disparaging them.

I and a few hundred other people recently competed in a birdwatching event. Most competitors spent upwards of 15 hours on the birding trails over the course of the day. Most fo the skills needed are ones of knoweldge, training, and acumen. However, there is a considerble emenent of stamina - both mental and physical - involved in staying sharp through the whole, long day. I personally walked about 9 miles over the course of the day, and finished up absolutely dog tired.

Am I an "athlete" by virtue of compating in an event that requires some measure of skill that not everyone posseses, and some measure of physical ability to maintain it for the time necessary? Good heavens, I think not.

At the same time, I have plenty of respect for the people who do well in that competition, and admire their efforts. I could say much the same about people who are outstanding dart throwers, shuffleboard players, golfers, race car drivers, or anything else that clearly requires skill to succeed.

Race car drivers have skills that most of us don't have, and to the extent that translates to entertainment and pleasure for the rest of us, they deserve the adulation and enrichment that follows. That logical statement includes no reference to whether they are athletes, as that is simply beside the point.