Math textbook political correctness, gone 10 2/3 times overboard

[panerd]

I can't even begin to explain my utter contempt for textbook companies who try to be multicultural by having every picture contain a kid in a wheelchair, an Asian, a black, a hispanic girl, and a Indian (American kind) girl. But I will give the companies that if I were one of those groups the books of years ago probably had their full share of cute white girls and boys. I also understand maybe integrating names that occur outside of the Bible every once in a while but this one takes the cake...

We just got an update of an old textbook. Usually these updates try and clear up some problems that don't make sense, update sports statistics questions, throw in a new way of looking at a problem, take out references to things like the trade towers or OJ Simpson, etc. I understand they have to do this to sell books but today the kids were doing a problem and I noticed this passage...

"Many people have interesting stories about how they were named. Here is one student's story of how their name was chosen: "I'm a twin, and my mom and dad didn't know they were going to have twins. My sister was born first, and she was named Sukey. I was a surprise. My mom named me after the woman in the next hospital bed, whose name was Takara."

So I go back to the previous edition and find this...

"Many people have interesting stories about how they were named. Here is one student's story of how their name was chosen: "I'm a twin, and my mom and dad didn't know they were going to have twins. My sister was born first, and she was named Susan. I was a surprise. My mom named me after the woman in the next hospital bed, whose name was Barbara."

What the fuck? First of all this isn't even a real story? Secondly, I can't even explain how digusted and tired I am of shit like this. These are the names that are more modern and appropriate than Susan and Barbara?

[Pumpy Tudors]

And it doesn't even have anything to do with math!

[JediKooter]

Can't they just use fruit and vegetables??

[John Galt]

For a math guy, you use the words a "1000 times" a little loosely.

[MJ4H]

I have no idea how to react to this thread.

Sukey was on Gilmore Girls though I think.

[TCY Junkie]

Sukey is another name for Susan. He must be a Streisand fan.

[Crim]

Originally Posted by Pumpy Tudors

And it doesn't even have anything to do with math!

Like hell it don't!

[Cringer]

I do not think I am one thousandth as pissed about this as panerd.

[ISiddiqui]

I greet this thread with a 1000 times meh.

[BrianD]

Originally Posted by ISiddiqui

I greet this thread with a 1000 times meh.

+1

Or does that screw up the math?

[Crim]

Originally Posted by BrianD

+1

Or does that screw up the math?

stop counting problems.

[Tigercat]

Originally Posted by panerd

"Many people have interesting stories about how they were named. Here is one student's story of how their name was chosen: "I'm a twin, and my mom and dad didn't know they were going to have twins. My sister was born first, and she was named Susan. I was a surprise. My mom named me after the woman in the next hospital bed, whose name was Barbara."

I don't find the example > or = to an interesting story. I obviously lack math skillz.

[Crim]

Don't let em get you down, panerd, keep on preachin!

[Groundhog]

Originally Posted by Cringer

I do not think I am one thousandth as pissed about this as panerd.

+1.

On TV right now in Australia every commercial follows a formula in that they all contain at least: 1 WASP, 1 Asian, 1 Aboriginal.

It's a big change from half a decade ago, but then, when I walk around Sydney (especially the CBD) I see probably as many Asian folks as I do WASPs, and the odd aboriginal. So to me it seems more like keeping up with the times (or even progressing - I doubt we are that much more multicultural than half a decade ago) than anything else.

[NoMyths]

I am more interested in why a person would get pissed off about (or even notice) the names of fake people in a sample math problem than I am in the reasons behind their inclusion (which are obvious, and non-threatening as far as I'm concerned). If the signs of a multi-cultural society bother you, perhaps it's worth examining whether there is a constructive way to move past your anger by considering the root causes. After all, it's not just math problems -- there are all sorts of people in our country who don't have WASPy names.

[panerd]

Originally Posted by Jo Jo the African Tribesman

I am more interested in why a person would get pissed off about (or even notice) the names of fake people in a sample math problem than I am in the reasons behind their inclusion (which are obvious, and non-threatening as far as I'm concerned). If the signs of a multi-cultural society bother you, perhaps it's worth examining whether there is a constructive way to move past your anger by considering the root causes. After all, it's not just math problems -- there are all sorts of people in our country who don't have WASPy names.

There is a big picture of two Asian babies and the story in the very first chapter in the book. So the implication is that this a real, true, and funny story. Maybe the title of my thread is a little much, but somebody actually thought it was worth their time to change the picture of the white babies to Asians and to change the names to Sukey and Takara. Sorry, but it is fucking stupid and it not multicultural in the least. If simply changing a picture and a person's name makes it multicultural and sensitive than I guess this post now is also...

[NoMyths]

Originally Posted by panerd

There is a big picture of two Asian babies and the story in the very first chapter in the book. So the implication is that this a real, true, and funny story. Maybe the title of my thread is a little much, but somebody actually thought it was worth their time to change the picture of the white babies to Asians and to change the names to Sukey and Takara. Sorry, but it is fucking stupid and it not multicultural in the least. If simply changing a picture and a person's name makes it multicultural and sensitive than I guess this post now is also...

Are you accustomed to math textbooks presenting problems with real stories and people, while also making them funny? I have to say, the tone of both of your posts echoes that of many people who have racial biases -- you're pretty worked up over an insignificant issue, focusing on the racial aspects of it. It's a math problem. The company obviously felt that by adding in some non-white names it might resonate with non-white kids, as well as enlarge the demographic audience for the textbook. I'd argue that such bitterness will not bring you much happiness in the modern world.

[panerd]

Originally Posted by NoMyths

Are you accustomed to math textbooks presenting problems with real stories and people, while also making them funny? I have to say, the tone of both of your posts echoes that of many people who have racial biases -- you're pretty worked up over an insignificant issue, focusing on the racial aspects of it. It's a math problem. The company obviously felt that by adding in some non-white names it might resonate with non-white kids, as well as enlarge the demographic audience for the textbook. I'd argue that such bitterness will not bring you much happiness in the modern world.

Guess I have just been a teacher long enough to see the shift from all white, to pretty balanced multicultural, to Takara and Sukay and the lady in the wheelchair. You may call it a racial bias, I think pandering is a better definition. Not really even sure who they are pandering to but I guess this book cause a rise in our young Asian's test scores.

[NoMyths]

Originally Posted by panerd

Guess I have just been a teacher long enough to see the shift from all white, to pretty balanced multicultural, to Takara and Sukay and the lady in the wheelchair. You may call it a racial bias, I think pandering is a better definition. Not really even sure who they are pandering to but I guess this book cause a rise in our young Asian's test scores.

So you're upset because...they're trying to broaden the audience for their textbook ("pandering")?

Not really even sure who they are pandering to but I guess this book cause a rise in our young Asian's test scores.

I certainly hope the young Asians in your classes get the same level of help and attention that the cute white kids do, whether or not two names in a sample math problem assist them in doing so.

[Subby]

Look at it this way - how awesome is your life if it leaves you room to get worked up about something like this?!

[JPhillips]

I shouldn't let this bother me, but being the father of an Asian girl, it really pisses me off. I'm thrilled that my daughter will be able to look at textbooks and see herself and her heritage represented there. She and millions like her are a part of this great country and they deserve to see themselves in their taxpayer funded materials.

I hope my daughter never has a teacher with such obvious anger and racial issues as you do times 1000.

[NoMyths]

Originally Posted by JPhillips

I shouldn't let this bother me, but being the father of an Asian girl, it really pisses me off. I'm thrilled that my daughter will be able to look at textbooks and see herself and her heritage represented there. She and millions like her are a part of this great country and they deserve to see themselves in their taxpayer funded materials.

This is pretty much exactly the response many minority groups have to published evidence that they are represented, whether it is in fiction or a simple textbook. Thanks for sharing your perspective, JPhillips.

[panerd]

Originally Posted by NoMyths

So you're upset because...they're trying to broaden the audience for their textbook ("pandering")?



I certainly hope the young Asians in your classes get the same level of help and attention that the cute white kids do, whether or not two names in a sample math problem assist them in doing so.

Christ, I guess I will drop it. I thought it was a pretty sad discovery, (and a sign of why education is so pitiful in this country. These are the solutions we come up with to problems) but the reaction of most was that my post wasn't that interesting. Your responses make no sense and I would love to continue replying to you but I see no need in getting into a discussion on race when that wasn't the premise of my orignal post at all.

I guess only Crim even sees the point I tried very poorly to make.

[Buccaneer]

Anyone else having no idea that Sukey or Takara were Asian names?

[panerd]

Originally Posted by JPhillips

I shouldn't let this bother me, but being the father of an Asian girl, it really pisses me off. I'm thrilled that my daughter will be able to look at textbooks and see herself and her heritage represented there. She and millions like her are a part of this great country and they deserve to see themselves in their taxpayer funded materials.

I hope my daughter never has a teacher with such obvious anger and racial issues as you do times 1000.

Whatever makes you happy. If this is the solution you think will solve problems that more power to you and the textbook industry. (changing the original names to Asian names instead of maybe actually coming up with a real life Asian example. Maybe explaining where different cultures names come from or something? Neh, lets change Susan to Sukay that will appease the Asian community!)

[st.cronin]

I don't think this is exactly political correctness, it is multi-culturalism. They are not the same concept.

[NoMyths]

As an educator myself, it troubles me that a colleague would be unable to comprehend the meaning in my posts -- particularly as I feel I'm being very generous in my responses. I don't doubt that the discussion of the racial undertones of your post is surprising to you. I'd just like to point out that you will probably be a happier person if you analyze the reasons for your anger at issues like these and find a way to move past them. Non-WASPy names are a fact of 21st century American life. You are never going to see less of them in textbooks and other media again. The sooner you come to terms with whatever core issues are troubling you about them, the happier your life will be.

[JPhillips]

If that's what you're advocating, I missed it. I'd agree with you that adding real cultural references would be better. If that's your intention, I apologize.

[panerd]

Originally Posted by st.cronin

I don't think this is exactly political correctness, it is multi-culturalism. They are not the same concept.

Meh. Multi-culturalism would be explaining something about the Asian culture. They changed the names from the last book from white names to Asian names, that isn't exactly educational or cultural in any way is it? Guess I am not seeing something that you all see here.

[st.cronin]

Originally Posted by panerd

Meh. Multi-culturalism would be explaining something about the Asian culture. They changed the names from the last book from white names to Asian names, that isn't exactly educational or cultural in any way is it? Guess I am not seeing something that you all see here.

In a math textbook?

[Groundhog]

FWIW, Sukay appears to be a surname rather than a first name, and not Asian. Takara is Japanese.

[timmynausea]

Originally Posted by Groundhog

FWIW, Sukay appears to be a surname rather than a first name, and not Asian. Takara is Japanese.

Sukey is a first name. Sukay is a last name. At some point during the thread, the spelling got goofed, but it is Sukey in the first post.

[Buccaneer]

Yeah, it does seem that Takara is obviously Japanese, if one had heard of the various companies with that name. But as a person's name, it could be many things - like misspelling a name on purpose.

[sabotai]

Originally Posted by Groundhog

On TV right now in Australia every commercial follows a formula in that they all contain at least: 1 WASP, 1 Asian, 1 Aboriginal.

In the US, we have 2 white people and 1 black person in every commercial. The black person always has the fewest lines. Most of the time they don't have any.

[QuikSand]

Originally Posted by Subby

Look at it this way - how awesome is your life if it leaves you room to get worked up about something like this?!

^^^

not getting enough love in this thread

[MJ4H]

Seriously, no one but me busted out laughing at "Joe Joe the African Tribesman?"

[st.cronin]

Never liked the Swiss, they make them little clocks, these two cocksuckers come out of 'em with these little hammers, hit each other on the head. What kind of sick mentality is that?

[Drake]

All I know is that if I'm the one paying for texbooks, shelling out cash for a new edition where names in story problems being changed (regardless of what they're changed from or to) was a major revision, I'd be pissed.

Oh, wait. That's all I ever get with Madden upgrades.

[sterlingice]

Originally Posted by Buccaneer

Anyone else having no idea that Sukey or Takara were Asian names?

I guessed Takara was. Had no clue about Sukey

SI

[MikeVic]

What's a WASP?

[sterlingice]

Originally Posted by JPhillips

I shouldn't let this bother me, but being the father of an Asian girl, it really pisses me off. I'm thrilled that my daughter will be able to look at textbooks and see herself and her heritage represented there. She and millions like her are a part of this great country and they deserve to see themselves in their taxpayer funded materials.

I hope my daughter never has a teacher with such obvious anger and racial issues as you do times 1000.

I'm going to play Devil's advocate for a moment. Like other racially charged issues like affirmative action, is it fair when the pendulum swings too far the other direction?

In theory, as of 2008, the population is 68% white, 15% hispanic, 12% African American, and 5% Asian American. If the book is 25/25/25/25- is that fair? Or how about 20/20/20/20/20 (other- Native American, etc)? How about having a textbook with no whites at all? I know we aren't talking about it in this case but where is the line?

SI

[Radii]

Originally Posted by MikeVic

What's a WASP?

I would be willing to bet 2/3 or more of this thread are WASPs!

(http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/White_A...xon_Protestant)

[Groundhog]

Originally Posted by Radii

I would be willing to bet 2/3 or more of this thread are WASPs!

(White Anglo-Saxon Protestant) - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

I had no idea that the P stood for "Protestant" - I though it was "person". Learn something new every day. I guess I'm a WAS.

[JPhillips]

Originally Posted by sterlingice

I'm going to play Devil's advocate for a moment. Like other racially charged issues like affirmative action, is it fair when the pendulum swings too far the other direction?

In theory, as of 2008, the population is 68% white, 15% hispanic, 12% African American, and 5% Asian American. If the book is 25/25/25/25- is that fair? Or how about 20/20/20/20/20 (other- Native American, etc)? How about having a textbook with no whites at all? I know we aren't talking about it in this case but where is the line?

SI

Until we have numbers, there really is no point in arguing this as I'm not advocating for any sort of equal splits or an absence of whites. Finding the right balance is difficult and while I'm eager to have Asians in particular represented due to my situation, I'm not going to count pictures and look for any sort of percentages. I don't think it's too much to ask that our fellow taxpayers be given some representation in school materials.

[sterlingice]

Originally Posted by Groundhog

I had no idea that the P stood for "Protestant" - I though it was "person". Learn something new every day. I guess I'm a WAS.

I'm a WP

Although according to Wiki's article, Germans are getting counted towards the "AS" part in modern verbage. However, I'm only 1/4 German while I'm 1/4 Italian and 1/2 Lithuanian. So I'm more than half non-AS.

SI

[sterlingice]

Originally Posted by JPhillips

Until we have numbers, there really is no point in arguing this as I'm not advocating for any sort of equal splits or an absence of whites. Finding the right balance is difficult and while I'm eager to have Asians in particular represented due to my situation, I'm not going to count pictures and look for any sort of percentages. I don't think it's too much to ask that our fellow taxpayers be given some representation in school materials.

I think the bolded part sounds a lot like empty election year rhetoric- c'mon "it's not too much to ask that our fellow taxpayers". But that aside, no question was answered. And I pose this not just to you but anyone.

Also, what do you mean by "until we have numbers"? What I posted above are US census estimates for 2008

SI

[Arles]

Originally Posted by st.cronin

I don't think this is exactly political correctness, it is multi-culturalism. They are not the same concept.

^^ What he said

[Groundhog]

Originally Posted by JPhillips

Until we have numbers, there really is no point in arguing this as I'm not advocating for any sort of equal splits or an absence of whites. Finding the right balance is difficult and while I'm eager to have Asians in particular represented due to my situation, I'm not going to count pictures and look for any sort of percentages. I don't think it's too much to ask that our fellow taxpayers be given some representation in school materials.

Honestly it isn't something that I've given a lot of thought to, but isn't it more important for the majority to be exposed to the minority, rather than vice versa? The minorities are exposed to the majority all the time, but the reverse is far often less true.

But at the end of the day, this isn't really an issue that inspires a lot of outrage in me one way or the other.

[molson]

I think we teach children something other than multi-culturalism when we artificially ensure that there's token representation of every group. We're teaching them that certain groups can't stand up on their own, without this boosting up by the majority.

[st.cronin]

Originally Posted by molson

I think we teach children something other than math when we artificially ensure that there's token representation of every group. We're teaching them that certain groups can't stand up on their own, without this boosting up by the majority.

fixed