Pat Robertson challenges Young Earth Creationism

[ISiddiqui]

Holy crap, I didn't see this one coming! Good for him though. (Thanks to Toddzilla for steering me to this from a Facebook post)

Pat Robertson challenges creationism – CNN Belief Blog - CNN.com Blogs

Washington (CNN) – Televangelist Pat Robertson challenged the idea that Earth is 6,000 years old this week, saying the man who many credit with conceiving the idea, former Archbishop of Ireland James Ussher, “wasn’t inspired by the Lord when he said that it all took 6,000 years.”

The statement was in response to a question Robertson fielded Tuesday from a viewer on his Christian Broadcasting Network show "The 700 Club.” In a submitted question, the viewer wrote that one of her biggest fears was that her children and husband would not go to heaven “because they question why the Bible could not explain the existence of dinosaurs.”

“You go back in time, you've got radiocarbon dating. You got all these things, and you've got the carcasses of dinosaurs frozen in time out in the Dakotas,” Robertson said. “They're out there. So, there was a time when these giant reptiles were on the Earth, and it was before the time of the Bible. So, don't try and cover it up and make like everything was 6,000 years. That's not the Bible.”

Before answering the question, Robertson acknowledged the statement was controversial by saying, “I know that people will probably try to lynch me when I say this.”

“If you fight science, you are going to lose your children, and I believe in telling them the way it was,” Robertson concluded.

Forty-six percent of Americans believe that God created humans in their present form at one point within the past 10,000 years, according to a survey released by Gallup in June. That number has remained unchanged for the past 30 years, since 1982, when Gallup first asked the question on creationism versus evolution.

The Gallup poll has not specifically asked about views on the age of the Earth.

Ussher’s work, from the mid-1600s, is widely cited by creationists as evidence that Earth is only a few thousand years old. Answer in Genesis, the famed Christian creationist ministry behind the Creation Museum in Petersburg, Kentucky, cites Ussher as proof of Earth’s age. They describe the archbishop as “a brilliant scholar who had very good reasons for his conclusions concerning the date of creation.”

For Christians who read the creation account in Genesis literally, the six days in the account are strictly 24-hour periods and leave no room for evolution. Young Earth creationists use this construct and biblical genealogies to determine the age of the Earth, and typically come up with 6,000 to 10,000 years.

Most scientists, however, agree that the Earth is 4.5 billion years old and the universe is 14.5 billion years old.

The idea of creationism has been scorned by the mainstream scientific community since shortly after Charles Darwin introduced "The Origin of Species" in 1859. By 1880, The American Naturalists, a science journal, reported nearly every major university in America was teaching evolution.

The question about Earth’s age has been in the news recently. Earlier this month, Republican Sen. Marco Rubio of Florida attempted to walk the line between science and faith-based creationism in remarks that that provoked the ire of liberal blogs and left the door open to creationism.

“I'm not a scientist, man,” Rubio told GQ’s Micheal Hainey. “I can tell you what recorded history says, I can tell you what the Bible says, but I think that's a dispute amongst theologians and I think it has nothing to do with the gross domestic product or economic growth of the United States.”

[stevew]

He's still a dinosaur himself.

[GrantDawg]

Originally Posted by stevew

He's still a dinosaur himself.

Yeah, he should know. He was there.

[Groundhog]

"Forty-six percent of Americans believe that God created humans in their present form at one point within the past 10,000 years"

That shouldn't surprise me, but it does. :o

[Grover]

Originally Posted by Groundhog

"Forty-six percent of Americans believe that God created humans in their present form at one point within the past 10,000 years"

That shouldn't surprise me, but it does. :o

I thought the same thing when I read it. I thought it would be around 35% or so.

[sterlingice]

Originally Posted by Grover

I thought the same thing when I read it. I thought it would be around 35% or so.

And I was thinking less than that

SI

[sterlingice]

It's Pat Robertson, so one must ask: Was it's the fault of "the gays" that the earth was thought to be only 10K years old?

SI

[Drake]

You know, I don't agree with Robertson on much -- and I think he's become increasingly unstable over the years -- but I have to give him a tip of the cap for even saying this. His demographic is largely made up of literalist evangelicals, so this is a pretty daring move on his part.

Don't get me wrong: I still think he's mostly an idiot and a money-grubber, but credit where credit is due and all that.

[Grover]

Originally Posted by sterlingice

And I was thinking less than that

SI

I've seen the painting of Regan on a velociraptor. I know this stuff was real 6,000 years ago.

[JPhillips]

What higher?

Age of Earth or pounds Robertson can leg press.

[EagleFan]

I was nearly lynched in school for saying the same thing about 30 years ago. Went to a Christian school and when this topic came up I asked why it had to be so important that evolution and the big bang didn't happen. Isn't it possible that is how God did it? To me that is still a logical question. Big Bang/evolution and God do not have to be exclusive of each other.

The whole Made in His Image thing always comes out at some point in this debate and my answer is "where does that ever say literal?". Christians believe that we have a soul that will live on after death, could that be what is made in his image? The answers to that always make amuse me because the same people that will respond to a statement that they have no real answer for with "it's God, of course we don't know what he thinks or does" suddenly take these statements as 100% certainty. That makes it like trying to have a discussion with my 8 year old who only uses selective arguments to try to get what she wants.

[ISiddiqui]

Ugh, re: "made in His image". It shocks me that some still believe that God is this old white bearded guy in the clouds. I wonder why people's view of "image" are simply referential to physical image?

[flounder]

What gets me is when I point out all the physical evidence supporting the age of the Earth and I get the response either that it's all made up or that God planted it there to test our faith. Like God's some big practical joker.

[molson]

It makes sense that the tenets of religion would be flexible because human understanding of the universe is so limited and always developing.

Though on the other hand, some people just connect better spiritually to the whole thing if they have strict rules and ideas of things too. So I don't really see any need to brow-beat them about their beliefs either. We all have a different path.

[amazedbygrace86]

I’ll just be upfront in saying that I am a Christian Evangelical. No, I don’t believe God is some old, bearded guy in the clouds. The Bible doesn’t teach that and it is sad when people who say they are “Christians” give the impression that God is like that. And yes, I do interpret the Bible literally – literally in the sense that I do try to consider the grammatical, historical and even literary context of a Bible passage before trying to apply it to today. And yes, I do hold to “young earth creationism,” because I believe the Bible teaches it, but also because I am not convinced of the scientific "evidence" for the theory of macro-evolution.

So with that said, I would agree with Drake that Robertson is becoming “increasingly unstable over the years…” Perhaps the saddest thing about Mr. Robertson's comments is that he really didn’t address the woman’s fear that “her children and husband would not go to heaven ‘because they question why the Bible could not explain the existence of dinosaurs.’”

The Bible doesn’t teach that someone goes to heaven because they believe in “young-earth creationism.” The Bible also doesn’t teach that someone goes to heaven by being a good parent, going to church a lot, helping out with things like Super-storm Sandy relief, etc.

No, the Bible teaches in many places that people go to Heaven (more specifically, a new heaven and new earth) only by personal trust or “faith” in the person and work of Jesus Christ (though, this should impact the way one lives). For instance, John 3:16, a verse I’m sure you all know, says: “For God so loved the world, that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life.” (Check out this short video to hear more about this: 321) .

Instead of helping this woman, I believe Robertson has in some way muddled things by allowing a secondary issue (i.e. creationism) to merge with a primary issue (i.e. eternal salvation).

[Drake]

Originally Posted by ISiddiqui

Ugh, re: "made in His image". It shocks me that some still believe that God is this old white bearded guy in the clouds. I wonder why people's view of "image" are simply referential to physical image?

But it makes the old white bearded guys feel better about themselves...

ETA: For the record, I'm also a Christian Evangelical, and I don't believe the Bible teaches Young Earth Creationism. I think big traditions have been built around Young Earth Creationism, but the arguments are less compelling to me than basic literary criticism of ways to read Hebrew cultural literature appropriately. I also believe that Jonah is an allegory and Job is a post-Exilic work. Revelations was not written by John the Apostle, and at least half the books attributed to Paul were probably not written by him (and definitely not Hebrews).

This all goes to show that I agree completely with amazedbygrace86 that anyone who focuses on Creationism as even *a* central message of the Bible is completely missing the point.

I do enjoy watching people in my church get all red-faced and argumentative about it, though. I'm sure they feel the same way when I argue about the Western church's unreasonable exclusion of the Apocrypha.

[ISiddiqui]

Originally Posted by amazedbygrace86

Perhaps the saddest thing about Mr. Robertson's comments is that he really didn’t address the woman’s fear that “her children and husband would not go to heaven ‘because they question why the Bible could not explain the existence of dinosaurs.’”

The Bible doesn’t teach that someone goes to heaven because they believe in “young-earth creationism.” The Bible also doesn’t teach that someone goes to heaven by being a good parent, going to church a lot, helping out with things like Super-storm Sandy relief, etc.

I think you are reading the issue slightly differently than Robertson did. I took the woman's statement to mean that her children and husband are moving AWAY from God because the Bible doesn't explain dinosaurs. In that because the Bible in a YEC view doesn't seem to adequately explain the existance of dinosaurs, her children & husband are rejecting the entire Scripture. And I think that's the way Robertson saw the question.

(FWIW, I consider myself a Christian Evangelical Left, though also in the Mainstream Protestant tradition - I'm a muddle - though I consider myself an Evolutionary Creationist.

Originally Posted by Drake

ETA: For the record, I'm also a Christian Evangelical, and I don't believe the Bible teaches Young Earth Creationism. I think big traditions have been built around Young Earth Creationism, but the arguments are less compelling to me than basic literary criticism of ways to read Hebrew cultural literature appropriately. I also believe that Jonah is an allegory and Job is a post-Exilic work. Revelations was not written by John the Apostle, and at least half the books attributed to Paul were probably not written by him (and definitely not Hebrews).

I'm right there with you, FWIW.

I'm sure they feel the same way when I argue about the Western church's unreasonable exclusion of the Apocrypha.

Western PROTESTANT Church . The Catholics remain fine with the Apocrypha.

[Edward64]

Originally Posted by ISiddiqui

Western PROTESTANT Church . The Catholics remain fine with the Apocrypha.

My sister was Catholic turned crazy Baptist. I don't have conversations with her anymore but when she quotes the Bible and tells me its God's truth etc. I ask her which version - hers that's missing some chapters or the original.

[Edward64]

Originally Posted by amazedbygrace86

And yes, I do hold to “young earth creationism,” because I believe the Bible teaches it, but also because I am not convinced of the scientific "evidence" for the theory of macro-evolution.

I may be mistaken but I do not believe macro-or-micro evolution necessarily contradicts an earth that is 14 billion or so years old. Specifically on the age of the earth ... evolution nothwithstanding ... why can you not believe the evidence?