George Steinbrenner we hardly knew ye....

[spleen1015]

hxxp://sports.espn.go.com/new-york/mlb/news/story?id=5375561

RIP George.

[Noop]

Damn I just saw this. RIP George.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Rest In Peace George.

[cartman]

I wonder if the first thing he is going to do in the afterlife is track down Billy Martin and fire him again.

[ISiddiqui]

RIP George... as much as you loved to root against him, it is hard to deny his impact on the sport.

[albionmoonlight]

A rare thing in sports: an owner who wanted the team to win as much as the fans did.

RIP.

[rowech]

Guess he had to wait until the all-star game just to make sure he was the center of attention again.

An owner people hated but would have loved it if your team had an owner that cared about winning as much as he did.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by ISiddiqui

as much as you loved to root against him, it is hard to deny his impact on the sport.

Even more than his impact, the thing that saddens me about his death as far as baseball/sports is concerned is that he was a guy that you knew wanted to win. Not because it'd be good for his investment, not because it'd sell more t-shirts, but because he believed that was the object of the game.

Can't say that about a lot of owners today.

[lungs]

Tip my cap today to the Steinbrenners.

[CraigSca]

It's amazing how he changed over the years. I can remember when he was hated as much by Yankee fans as the rest of the population.

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

Originally Posted by JonInMiddleGA

Even more than his impact, the thing that saddens me about his death as far as baseball/sports is concerned is that he was a guy that you knew wanted to win. Not because it'd be good for his investment, not because it'd sell more t-shirts, but because he believed that was the object of the game.

Can't say that about a lot of owners today.

This illustrates quite clearly just how screwed up baseball has become at this point, mostly due to the fallacy that an owner should be win at all costs despite the obvious disparity in payroll and market revenues and no leveling mechanism. George and his actions are the reason that baseball is the least competitive league in professional sports. He definitely had an impact on the sport, but it was mostly negative.

[Lathum]

Originally Posted by Mizzou B-ball fan

This illustrates quite clearly just how screwed up baseball has become at this point, mostly due to the fallacy that an owner should be win at all costs despite the obvious disparity in payroll and market revenues and no leveling mechanism. George and his actions are the reason that baseball is the least competitive league in professional sports. He definitely had an impact on the sport, but it was mostly negative.

As much as I hate the Yankees and the way they spend they operate within the rules of the game. Don't hate Steinbrenner for that or blame him, blame baseball, maybe you should blame Curt Flood.

He wanted to win and was willing to spend to do it. I get the feeling that even if he was in a small market he would spend the same money and risk losing money just to win.

first Sheppard now George, Yogi better watch out.

[cartman]

Why is it that capitalism is considered good for business, except when sports related businesses come into play?

[PilotMan]

As much as I hate the Yankees, I see the bigger picture here. The passing of an icon is a time for reflection and remembering all that he accomplished, and all that surrounded him. RIP George.

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

Originally Posted by Lathum

As much as I hate the Yankees and the way they spend they operate within the rules of the game. Don't hate Steinbrenner for that or blame him, blame baseball, maybe you should blame Curt Flood.

He wanted to win and was willing to spend to do it. I get the feeling that even if he was in a small market he would spend the same money and risk losing money just to win.

first Sheppard now George, Yogi better watch out.

Any owner in baseball can and would have done the same thing as George in that market and then they would have been lauded as the 'guy who wanted to win as much as the fans'. It's easy to take 'risks' when you're in the largest market in baseball. What's tough is to do what's best for the game and even the playing field. That would have been a far bigger risk than anything that George did. Instead, he made millions upon millions with all his 'risks'.

[Lathum]

Originally Posted by Mizzou B-ball fan

Any owner in baseball can and would have done the same thing as George in that market and then they would have been lauded as the 'guy who wanted to win as much as the fans'. It's easy to take 'risks' when you're in the largest market in baseball. What's tough is to do what's best for the game and even the playing field. That would have been a far bigger risk than anything that George did. Instead, he made millions upon millions with all his 'risks'.

Why on Earth wouldn't he?

Make millions and win titles or make sure the playing field is level, hmmmm?

Don't be sore because your team plays in a small market and pockets revenue sharing money instead of spending to win.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by Mizzou B-ball fan

What's tough is to do what's best for the game and even the playing field.

That's not his job as an owner, his job is or at least should be, to field a winning team.

He was one the last owners I've seen who looked at winning at the object, not getting rich, the latter always seemed to be a by-product for him where baseball was concerned.

As one of the AJC writers put it this morning, "he was the owner every fan wants".

[Ronnie Dobbs2]

Could not agree with Jon any more. And the Yankees he bought were not the Yankees of today. He made that. I suppose you could argue that it's easier to do that in New York, but he still did it. Others have similar situations and flounder, he excelled. Baseball will miss him.

[MikeVic]

R.I.P. I'll echo the other thoughts in that it's nice to see an owner that just wants to win.

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

Originally Posted by JonInMiddleGA

That's not his job as an owner, his job is or at least should be, to field a winning team.

He was one the last owners I've seen who looked at winning at the object, not getting rich, the latter always seemed to be a by-product for him where baseball was concerned.

As one of the AJC writers put it this morning, "he was the owner every fan wants".

You can be an owner and still look out for the best interests of the league while still pushing your team to win at all costs. It can be both.

It's not hard to be 'the owner every fan wants' when you have a clear financial advantage over the other teams. He has every right to be a leader in the way he did. It just wasn't in the best interest of baseball as a sport.

[Lathum]

Originally Posted by Mizzou B-ball fan

You can be an owner and still look out for the best interests of the league while still pushing your team to win at all costs. It can be both.

It's not hard to be 'the owner every fan wants' when you have a clear financial advantage over the other teams. He has every right to be a leader in the way he did. It just wasn't in the best interest of baseball as a sport.

And again, it should be up to baseball to change the rules in that case. Don't be mad at George for operating within the framework.

[cartman]

The Yankees, by far, contributed the most in revenue sharing, due to their higher revenues. It is not the Yankees fault that many of the recipients of revenue sharing (namely the Pirates, Royals, and Padres) elected to pocket the money instead of using it for payroll to make their teams more competitive.

[Ronnie Dobbs2]

Anyway, rest in peace George and keep fucking that chicken MBBF.

[molson]

Originally Posted by Mizzou B-ball fan

You can be an owner and still look out for the best interests of the league while still pushing your team to win at all costs. It can be both.

It's not hard to be 'the owner every fan wants' when you have a clear financial advantage over the other teams. He has every right to be a leader in the way he did. It just wasn't in the best interest of baseball as a sport.

What do you think he should have done? Give away players to the Royals and then pay their salaries? If he didn't sign some big free agent, the Red Sox or the Cubs or the Dodgers would have. ( Not the Royals.)

[Dr. Sak]

Originally Posted by Lathum

And again, it should be up to baseball to change the rules in that case. Don't be mad at George for operating within the framework.

I agree 100%. RIP George

[molson]

Originally Posted by Mizzou B-ball fan

George and his actions are the reason that baseball is the least competitive league in professional sports.

This is an amazing assertion.

It was all George, huh? He made New York a huge market and created the player's union?

[RendeR]

I think the biggest argument against him is that when times came up where the owners (who MAKE the rules BTW) could have balanced the playing fields and done more to improve the game itself and return to the apex of American (and World Wide) sports, Steinbrenner was the leader of the "things are fine as they are" camp.

He was GREAT for the Yankees. He was worthless to baseball as a whole.

He was definitely an Icon within the sport, but I have no great feeling of loss at his demise. The Yankees might suffer some in the future, but perhaps the sport as a whole will grow and become more without him.

[RendeR]

Originally Posted by molson

This is an amazing assertion.

It was all George, huh? He made New York a huge market and created the player's union?

George created the "buy the best players" mentality to win at all costs. Thereby driving their biggest rivals over the decades to do the same, which in turn creates a huge disparity between the large and small market teams.

He might not be solely responsible for the piss poor product we have today, but he definitely lead the way to it.

[Chubby]

Originally Posted by Mizzou B-ball fan

Any owner in baseball can and would have done the same thing as George in that market and then they would have been lauded as the 'guy who wanted to win as much as the fans'. It's easy to take 'risks' when you're in the largest market in baseball. What's tough is to do what's best for the game and even the playing field. That would have been a far bigger risk than anything that George did. Instead, he made millions upon millions with all his 'risks'.

Just like the Mets have right?

[stevew]

for the most part the Yankees don't drive spending. Be mad at Tom Hicks, he is more responsible than George. Jeter was one of the contracts that did blow up the marketplace. But when you're retaining a home grown talent it is acceptable. Re Teixera and CC....those guys got market.

[molson]

Originally Posted by RendeR

I think the biggest argument against him is that when times came up where the owners (who MAKE the rules BTW) could have balanced the playing fields and done more to improve the game itself and return to the apex of American (and World Wide) sports, Steinbrenner was the leader of the "things are fine as they are" camp.

I'm always perplexed by this argument. We've had multiple strikes/lockouts over salary distribution issues. What the hell was the '94 strike all about if the owners and players agreed that there shouldn't be a salary cap?

The players won't go for it. They won't play under those rules.

[JonInMiddleGA]

When I think about it, George was one of the last vestiges of American greatness. He wanted to win, he'll be criticized. LeBron wants to win, he's villified by some.

Steinbrenner never accepted mediocrity, whereas too many Americans today seem to crave it.

[Logan]

Jesus christ MBBF needs to be smacked.

How much of George's money has ended up DIRECTLY in your owner's pocket?

[ISiddiqui]

Originally Posted by RendeR

I think the biggest argument against him is that when times came up where the owners (who MAKE the rules BTW) could have balanced the playing fields and done more to improve the game itself and return to the apex of American (and World Wide) sports, Steinbrenner was the leader of the "things are fine as they are" camp.

He was GREAT for the Yankees. He was worthless to baseball as a whole.

He was definitely an Icon within the sport, but I have no great feeling of loss at his demise. The Yankees might suffer some in the future, but perhaps the sport as a whole will grow and become more without him.

Truth. It was great to see an owner want to win, but without a counterbalance (such as a strong Commissioner) his excesses were unable to be checked.

[Logan]

Originally Posted by ISiddiqui

Truth. It was great to see an owner want to win, but without a counterbalance (such as a strong Commissioner) his excesses were unable to be checked.

And if those counterbalances were in place, he would have put about an extra $100 million in his bank account annually.

What a prick.

[molson]

Only in MLB could someone be criticized for being successful. Just unbelievable. Imagine this in any other context.

If the Royals can't compete they should be contracted. They have no special entitlement to a baseball franchise. They're not the good guys just because they're a failed franchise. The Yankees aren't the bad guys just because they're successful.

[spleen1015]

MBBF, go take your shit some where else.

[Lathum]

[quote=RendeR;2319195]

I think the biggest argument against him is that when times came up where the owners (who MAKE the rules BTW) could have balanced the playing fields and done more to improve the game itself and return to the apex of American (and World Wide) sports, Steinbrenner was the leader of the "things are fine as they are" camp.

Things were fine for him. If the other owners/ commishoner weren't strong enough or organized enough to change the system that isn't Georges fault.

H

e was GREAT for the Yankees. He was worthless to baseball as a whole.

Just not true. When the Yankees are good it is good for baseball. Just like when the Lakers are good it is good for basketball. Do you really think baseball would have gotten as much TV money from Fox and ESPN if they didn't have good Yankee teams driving the ratings?

He was definitely an Icon within the sport, but I have no great feeling of loss at his demise. The Yankees might suffer some in the future, but perhaps the sport as a whole will grow and become more without him.

George has had virtually no involvement in the Yankees for years now. His son Hank runs the team and does just fine, nothing is changing.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by molson

Only in MLB could someone be criticized for being successful. Just unbelievable. Imagine this in any other context.

Don't get carried away, it seems to be the norm in most businesses today.

[molson]

Also, it's only the small market fans that claim that baseball has been "destroyed". Maybe for their failed franchises, it has been, but take a look at the overall MLB attendance numbers of the 90s and 00s v. previous decades.

[Ajaxab]

Originally Posted by Logan

How much of George's money has ended up DIRECTLY in your owner's pocket?

In my case, none. I haven't really followed baseball since '95 and the excesses of the Yankees are one of the reasons why. I haven't had an owner for 15 years because I haven't been a baseball fan for 15 years. I have no interest in watching a game between teams in the same professional league where one player makes as much, if not more, than another team in that league. It makes a mockery of the sport's competitive balance. Sure, some people don't like competitive balance or only appreciate competitive balance among those with the resources to be competitive, but I'm not one of those people when it comes to sports. Baseball is dead to me. You can't put the blame on George for that, but, as others have point out, he did nothing to encourage fans like me to stick with the game.

[Crapshoot]

Originally Posted by JonInMiddleGA

Even more than his impact, the thing that saddens me about his death as far as baseball/sports is concerned is that he was a guy that you knew wanted to win. Not because it'd be good for his investment, not because it'd sell more t-shirts, but because he believed that was the object of the game.

Can't say that about a lot of owners today.

You're wrong on pretty much everything else baseball related, but this one you're dead on about.

[Lathum]

The whole Small market thing doesn't even fly with me anymore.

Minnesota just built a new stadium, is always competitive and just signed Mauer to a huge deal.

Padres are in first place.

Rays have amazing talent and went to the World series a few years ago and would be crushing any other division.

Reds are in first place and have a newish ballpark

Brewers have a new ballpark and in recent years have been competitive.

[spleen1015]

Just because the Yankees and the Red Sox exist doesn't mean there's no parity in baseball.

Before you guys get too caught up in it, go look at the numbers. Go look at the playoff distribution over the last 10 years and then compare it to the likes of the NBA.

NBA has had 5 different champions over the last 10 years. MLB has had 8.

If the season ended today, I think the Yankees are the only team that would make the playoffs who also did last year.

[Logan]

Anyway, while I'm certainly no NYY fan, I'll be stuck to WFAN for the rest of the day to hear some of the stories from past and current players, media, etc. I know Francesca is on vacation this week, which I'm sure he's kicking himself over right now.

Pretty sure I've mentioned this before on here, but Steinbrenner was one of the most charitable guys in NYC, and for the most part did it completely anonymously. On his own, he funded the gifts that went to all the less fortunate kids who would write letters to Santa asking for presents, which to me is one of the greatest things a man could ever do.

[JediKooter]

RIP George, never really liked you, but, you were unique and put your mark forever on baseball.

[molson]

Originally Posted by Logan

Pretty sure I've mentioned this before on here, but Steinbrenner was one of the most charitable guys in NYC, and for the most part did it completely anonymously. On his own, he funded the gifts that went to all the less fortunate kids who would write letters to Santa asking for presents, which to me is one of the greatest things a man could ever do.

He was always a huge contributor to the Jimmy Fund when the Red Sox/WEEI had their fundraisers. John Henry always brought that up.

Edit: Of course, his biggest charitable cause was small market baseball teams.

[Ronnie Dobbs2]

Originally Posted by molson

He was always a huge contributor to the Jimmy Fund when the Red Sox/WEEI had their fundraisers. John Henry always brought that up.

Bit of trivia, not really charity: MIT's football "stadium" is Steinbrenner Field, paid for by George in honor of his father, who ran track at MIT as an undergrad.

[RendeR]

[quote=Lathum;2319217]

Originally Posted by RendeR

Just not true. When the Yankees are good it is good for baseball. Just like when the Lakers are good it is good for basketball. Do you really think baseball would have gotten as much TV money from Fox and ESPN if they didn't have good Yankee teams driving the ratings?

This statement is perfect. This shows exactly what is wrong with both sports you mention.

The sheer arrogance than without a competitive Yankee or Lakers team the league would suffer is utterly idiotic. Does it drive up ratings in NY and LA? sure. Does it do jack shit for anyone else? No, not really. Certainly not as much as having a competitive team in whatever local city you choose would do.

The saddest part is that the rest of the country has put up with this stupidity for so long that NY and LA seem to actually BELIEVE its the way things ought to be.

Did the Rams moving to St Louis hurt the NFL's ratings? not really. The single most balanced league in the nation is the NFL. Where is it ranked in relation to the other sports? Oh yeah, its number 1.

If the Yankees ceased to exist would baseball die? No. it would move on just fine without them.

[Logan]

So you're really arguing that if the Yankees and Lakers didn't exist, revenues for all other teams in their respective leagues would be the same or better?