The 2011 NBA Offseason---Stern says no

[stevew]

Draft is on the 23rd.

Lockout on the 30th?

[Groundhog]

Welp, looking forward to using the Cavs in NBA 2K12 anyway!

[stevew]

Seems to be a pretty big consensus on the lockout being nasty.

[bulletsponge]

they want to roll back salaries already on the books. you can bet your ass it will get nasty

[DaddyTorgo]

The players also claim that they're much better prepared than NFL players and have been saving up for this for a couple years now.

[LloydLungs]

I really can't see any scenario where NO games are missed. I think it's somewhere between a 60-game season and no season, with no season being a realistic long shot.

[Groundhog]

Originally Posted by DaddyTorgo

The players also claim that they're much better prepared than NFL players and have been saving up for this for a couple years now.

Somehow I doubt that, given what I've read about NBA players and their money.

[DaddyTorgo]

Originally Posted by Groundhog

Somehow I doubt that, given what I've read about NBA players and their money.

hence why i said claim

[MrBug708]

I guess Dwight Howard becoming a Laker will have to wait for a bit...

[Groundhog]

Originally Posted by MrBug708

I guess Dwight Howard becoming a Laker will have to wait for a bit...

Until he ring-chases in 2018?

[Hoya1]

The shitty thing in all of this is the loss of perspective of what they accomplished this year. Ratings are up, people are watching, the product is great. All of that goes out the window when games are missed due to a dispute.

[DeToxRox]

The Dwight Howard sweepstakes have begun. Golden State offered Monta Ellis, Andris Biedrins and Ekpe Udoh. Unlikely that'll get it done.


-draft express

[Noop]

Bosh for Dwight.

[MrBug708]

Minnesota has apparently offered Love and the #2 for...Gasol.

[Noop]

Originally Posted by MrBug708

Minnesota has apparently offered Love and the #2 for...Gasol.

What??? They are trying to get an all Spanish team or something? If I am the Lakers I might take that trade in a heart beat.

[whomario]

I call Bullshit. I think it´s only logical that teams call the Lakers about Gasol in hopes of getting a bargain because their management has lost trust in Gasol, but no way do they offer the one player that gives their franchise some identity.

A quick google search doesn´t bring up any results even claiming they heard that, all there is is Chad Ford claiming the Wolves have interest in Gasol (based largely on Rubio coming over from what i understand, sure ...) with a couple blogs speculating around that rumour.

If Gasol wasn´t so relatively old and the Wolves that far from being competitive i´d actually call that even. Love isn´t as good as his stats, Gasol not as bad as this one bad playoff run.

[stevew]

Am I wrong to want Williams over Irving? I can't renember the last time a ball dominant point guard won anything. Williams has sweet range and I think he will have a good chance at being a 20ppg + scorer.

[RainMaker]

Originally Posted by stevew

Am I wrong to want Williams over Irving? I can't renember the last time a ball dominant point guard won anything. Williams has sweet range and I think he will have a good chance at being a 20ppg + scorer.

I don't know. I think Kyrie is a safer bet and a PG is almost a must in today's game. My concern with Williams is the same with Beasley. He's undersized for the 4 which is where he'd be best at.

I'd still love to see them find a way to get that #2 pick from Minnesota and draft both.

[Hammer755]

I don't see any way that the NBA fails to lose a good chunk of the year. In the NFL, both sides are trying to get a bigger part of the profits. The NBA, on the other hand, is in real financial trouble, and (if you believe the owners, that is) they can't survive without huge concessions.

[Groundhog]

Originally Posted by stevew

Am I wrong to want Williams over Irving? I can't renember the last time a ball dominant point guard won anything. Williams has sweet range and I think he will have a good chance at being a 20ppg + scorer.

Like RM says, my biggest concern with Williams is his tweener status. I don't think he has PF size yet I don't think he's a SF either. From DraftExpress.com:

"Williams amazingly enough only took 5 pull-up jumpers all season, representing just 1% of his total offense."

Reading the rest of his write up there's a lot to like about his game in college, but the fact is that he scored the vast majority of his points at the basket where as he'll be forced to step away from the basket in the NBA, which will also effect how often he gets to the line, which was a major part of his game in college (fouled on 33% of his possessions).

Of course very few guys succeed in the NBA without evolving their games considerably and Williams is obviously very talented, but when you read Irving's impressive college situational stats - although being over 12 games - and consider that he'll be able to carry far more of his college style of play over to the pros than Williams did, it makes a pretty good case for Irving at #1 IMO.

At the end of the day though, I'd much prefer to be drafting top 2 than 3-5. I think this draft is a real crapshoot after Williams and Irving.

[Neon_Chaos]

Teenage daughter of Robert Horry dies after lifelong illness - Ball Don't Lie - NBA*Blog - Yahoo! Sports

[mckerney]

Originally Posted by stevew

Am I wrong to want Williams over Irving? I can't renember the last time a ball dominant point guard won anything. Williams has sweet range and I think he will have a good chance at being a 20ppg + scorer.

ESPN has a story saying the Cavs have decided to go with Irving. A bit disappointing, I was still hoping that Irving would fall to 2, though wasn't really expecting it.

[Groundhog]

Interestingly enough from an Aussie's perspective, Irving was born in Australia - his dad played basketball over here for a few years - and has dual citizenship. He said yesterday that he would like to play for Australia, which sort of makes sense because even though he only lived here for 2 years, it's not like he's going to have to beat out the likes of Rose and CP3 to get minutes on our national squad.

He has played for USA basketball in the past however, so not sure how that may complicate things, but just gives me another reason to root for him as a Cav!

[stevew]

Yay! We are drafting a guy who will eventually be the 8th best PG in our conference. One who will never sniff an all star game.

[Groundhog]

Originally Posted by stevew

Yay! We are drafting a guy who will eventually be the 8th best PG in our conference. One who will never sniff an all star game.

I don't know about that, he has the tools to be as good as any of the PGs I reckon.

To be honest I'm more concerned with what we do at #4 than at #1.

[DaddyTorgo]

Ugh - WTF am I going to do if Reggie Jackson (BC) goes to the Heat @ 31?? Fuck me. I need to root for him but not Lebron. WTF.

[stevew]

I doubt the Heat take an American player at 31. Best thing from that spot is to take a stashable Euro IMO.

[DaddyTorgo]

Originally Posted by stevew

I doubt the Heat take an American player at 31. Best thing from that spot is to take a stashable Euro IMO.

I dunno - I've heard the rumor multiple times over and he's apparently been given a guarantee by someone because he's stopped working out and everything...

[stevew]

Well, if he's like most BC players you won't have to root against him in the NBA for more than a couple years

[DaddyTorgo]

Originally Posted by stevew

Well, if he's like most BC players you won't have to root against him in the NBA for more than a couple years

That's not exactly true. Craig Smith has carved out a decent career as a back-of-bench player (not surprising given his size and athleticism). Jared Dudley is lighting shit up for the Suns.

And umm...yeah...that's all I got at the moment.

[stevew]

Forgot about Dudley. I'm pretty sure any team would love to have him as their 7th man and pay him 4.5m/year for the next half decade. He's a really good player.

[whomario]

Originally Posted by DaddyTorgo

I dunno - I've heard the rumor multiple times over and he's apparently been given a guarantee by someone because he's stopped working out and everything...

Why would someone stop working out for a guarantee for the first spot without a guaranteed contract ? A Euro might if he´s set on staying in Europe (and then in a few years could negotiate his own terms while at 30 he´d be confined to rookie salary), but an american ? No way.

regarding "irving 8th best PG in a conference" : Possible, but who´s to say that Williams will be a star ? From what i have seen there are some real question marks with him, the way he scored in College won´t easily translate (he made a living taking slow footed big guys off the drible and then finishing over less than impressive help) and i have some doubts he´ll be able to create shots for himself against NBA PFs while at SF he´s really more of a spot up shooter.

Let´s just say that i´d not hang up if anyone offered me something good for the 1st pick in this draft.

[Icy]

I'm really excited about Ricky Rubio in the NBA this year, would hate a long lockup.

Rubio had a bad season in Spain (despite winning the title, but as backup), with a huge loss of self confidence in a very rigid scheme where he couldn't use his "magic".

I hope that the more open and faster NBA game will fit him well. I'm sure he is going to be in a lot highlights and recaps next season, but hope he can also contribute to the Wolves and not only with random flashy plays.

[Groundhog]

I actually wonder if, given that the T'Wolves really don't need a player like Williams so much, the Cavs might be able to draft Kanter, who fills a need for them, and send him to Minnesota for Williams and some bad contracts? The Cavs have a 14mil trade exception to use.

[albionmoonlight]

There's a guy in my office who is a huge college b-ball fan and an even bigger Duke fan. He's the kind of guy who will get excited about seeing Duke play some warm-up game against East Podunk State because he's really excited to see "this kid that East Podunk has who is just deadly from 3." He also knows more about Duke's 10th man than I know about some of the starters from teams I follow. Point is, this guy has absorbed a TON of Duke basketball over the years. Also, like a lot of college fans, he's a big believer that most kids leave for the NBA too early and almost all of them would benefit from more time in college.

All of which is lead-in to this: I was talking to him the other day and saying that I figure that he would have wanted Irving to come back because he played so little last year with the injury. And he said that, in the years he's been watching, he can't remember seeing another player in person who was so far above the other players in terms of athletic ability and basketball instincts. He acknowledged that Irving would have a learning curve, but that he thought that the NBA was a no-brainer move because another year in college would have been "like a varsity kid spending a year playing in the JV league."

So, based on that, I'd have to say that Irving seems like he might end up joining (instead of being in the tier below) the elite young PG class in the NBA.

[DaddyTorgo]

Originally Posted by whomario

Why would someone stop working out for a guarantee for the first spot without a guaranteed contract ? A Euro might if he´s set on staying in Europe (and then in a few years could negotiate his own terms while at 30 he´d be confined to rookie salary), but an american ? No way.

regarding "irving 8th best PG in a conference" : Possible, but who´s to say that Williams will be a star ? From what i have seen there are some real question marks with him, the way he scored in College won´t easily translate (he made a living taking slow footed big guys off the drible and then finishing over less than impressive help) and i have some doubts he´ll be able to create shots for himself against NBA PFs while at SF he´s really more of a spot up shooter.

Let´s just say that i´d not hang up if anyone offered me something good for the 1st pick in this draft.

Very good point. I hadn't really considered that I guess...was too busy panicking. Thanks for talking me down off the proverbial ledge.

My bad - looks like I misread the rumor anyways. Chad Ford was saying he wouldn't slip past the Heat @ 31, but there's a team further up in the first round that's made him a promise.

Ford writes: "I don't know who has promised him. Three rumored teams -- the Blazers, Boston Celtics and New Jersey Nets -- all say they haven't. The Blazers and Celtics don't make sense anyway. Both drafted similar players (Elliot Williams and Avery Bradley) last year with their first-round picks.
Ford believes the Heat will take Jackson at No. 31, if he's available after the first round.
"Bottom line. He's got a promise. It's not Celtics, Nets or Blazers. It's Heat at 31. But it doesn't stop a team from drafting him higher."

[mckerney]

Originally Posted by Groundhog

I actually wonder if, given that the T'Wolves really don't need a player like Williams so much, the Cavs might be able to draft Kanter, who fills a need for them, and send him to Minnesota for Williams and some bad contracts? The Cavs have a 14mil trade exception to use.

I really hope the Wolves don't do this, though I also have no confidence in Kahn making a good decision. With the Wolves roster they need to get the best talent wherever on the floor they can get it. With Kevin Love being the best and only decent player they have it would be ideal if they could get a PG, SG, SF or C, but after winning 32 games over the last two years and next season not looking much better, plus no lottery pick next year, I think they just need to take the best player available.

Also, if the Wolves do trade down they have to more than getting rid of bad contracts they're pretty far under the cap and I don't think they have any contracts they really need to get rid of.

[bhlloy]

If the Wolves take Williams then your 4 or 5 best players are all PF. I understand the concept of taking the best player available and generally agree with it but in this case, it just doesn't make sense.

[mckerney]

Originally Posted by bhlloy

If the Wolves take Williams then your 4 or 5 best players are all PF. I understand the concept of taking the best player available and generally agree with it but in this case, it just doesn't make sense.

Only two of those guys are worth keeping though. The Wolves look like they're about 3 or 4 years away from competing, may as well not worry about the current make up of the roster.

[bhlloy]

I guess. You have to get value for those pieces that are worth something though, and if teams know you have to get rid of a couple you're going to get jack.

It's just horrible roster mismanagement that has got them to this point, where they are stacked with players at a couple of positions and have absolutely nothing at the rest. Maybe Kahn was building a roster for the next NBA Jam release?

[whomario]

Kanter imo is going to be really, really good and it won´t be as long as people might think due to him sitting out the year.
Some may doubt if he´s going to be able to do it against much stronger/more physical competition but he doesn´t really rely on his strengths to score, it´s just a nice bonus. Has some of the same qualities that Scola has (running the floor, cutting to the basket at the right moment, great footwork and a pretty substantial set of post moves for a young pivot player) but is more equiped physichally to make use of his back to the basket skills.


The european player i am rooting for the most is Jan Vesely though, the guy is just fun to watch and has such a unique skill set. Truly great athleticism and agility for being essentially a 7 footer (6´11 bare foot), he could actually guard SFs on a nightly basis (guarded 2 guards frequently in Europe). Has nice defensive instincts and is very disruptive there with his length and quickness.
Plus a great deal of energy and enthusiasm (sometimes too much), think Tyler Hansbrough only 2 inches taller and way more athletic. And on the other end he hurts the rim (one of my early sleeper picks to being in the dunk contest), very fun to watch.
His offense needs work, but he´s going to be productive there by running the floor, cutting to the basket and hopefully gets to play with a PG that can run the pick and roll with him.

Ultimately he´ll need to either add a bit of strengths to play the 4 or improve his jump shot to play the 3, but until then he´ll likely be still fun to watch and hopefully gets a coach willing to find ways to use his defensive abilities on the perimeter.

nice video showing some of his defensive qualities that don´t show up on the box score (and a few of his weaknesses) and starts of with a play that is pretty much insane :



some more highlights :

[mckerney]

Originally Posted by bhlloy

I guess. You have to get value for those pieces that are worth something though, and if teams know you have to get rid of a couple you're going to get jack.

It's just horrible roster mismanagement that has got them to this point, where they are stacked with players at a couple of positions and have absolutely nothing at the rest. Maybe Kahn was building a roster for the next NBA Jam release?

I'll definitely agree on horrible roster management. I'd be great if they could get a player who fits the team better, but with this being a week draft, blowing the last two drafts and not having their first round pick next year I think they need to just get the most talented player they can.

[Groundhog]

Do the Pistons dae draft another Serbian player...

*edit: whoops, he plays in Serbia, but isn't Serbian.

[Groundhog]

A quick uneducated mock draft:

1. Cleveland: Kyrie Irving
2. Minnesota: Derrick Williams
3. Utah: Brandon Knight
4. Cleveland: Enes Kanter
5. Toronto: Kemba Walker
6. Wizards: Marcus Morris
7. Sacramento: Jan Vesely
8. Detroit: Kawhi Leonard
9. Charlotte: Klay Thompson
10. Milwaukee: Bismack Biyombo
11. Golden State: Chris Singleton
12. Utah: Jonas Valanciunas
13. Phoenix: Jimmer Fredette
14. Houston: Markieff Morris

[stevew]

Valanciunas almost has to go in the top 10 or in the 2nd round. Or it could be years until his buyout/earning potential of the NBA scale make sense. I ultimately think the Cavs will take and stash him by buying a first rounder. Diop from the Bobcats would be a contract I could see taking

[Neon_Chaos]

I'd love for the Cavs to pick Williams at 1, and just completely screw with Minny.

[JPhillips]

Originally Posted by Groundhog

A quick uneducated mock draft:

1. Cleveland: Kyrie Irving
2. Minnesota: Derrick Williams
3. Utah: Brandon Knight
4. Cleveland: Enes Kanter
5. Toronto: Kemba Walker
6. Wizards: Marcus Morris
7. Sacramento: Jan Vesely
8. Detroit: Kawhi Leonard
9. Charlotte: Klay Thompson
10. Milwaukee: Bismack Biyombo
11. Golden State: Chris Singleton
12. Utah: Jonas Valanciunas
13. Phoenix: Jimmer Fredette
14. Houston: Markieff Morris

Sounds like Biyombo is falling fast after his Italian workout.

[mckerney]

Originally Posted by Neon_Chaos

I'd love for the Cavs to pick Williams at 1, and just completely screw with Minny.

I'd love it if Minnesota could get Kyrie Irving.

[Groundhog]

Originally Posted by mckerney

I'd love it if Minnesota could get Kyrie Irving.

That would put them in an interesting situation, with 3 recent lottery pick PGs on the roster.

Apparently Kanter at #2 is a possibility, that would give Utah a Jefferson-Millsap-Williams frontcourt.

[mckerney]

Minnesota fired Kurt Rambis. A shitty thing to do to place the blame on him while Kahn gets to keep his job.