Alumna sues her college for not finding a job

[Galaxy]

Alumna sues college because she hasn't found a job - CNN.com

[Flasch186]

that'll help.

[Noop]

I read this the other day and wondered why someone hasn't done this earlier.

[bhlloy]

I'm actually surprised it took this long. FOFC is slipping.

What a complete joke. For one she can't even put a proper sentence together. And she doesn't seem to grasp that a 4.0 is better than a 2.7 (especially a 2.7 from such an upstanding institution that I'm sure Monroe College of New York is) I can't imagine why anyone wouldn't want to hire her

I do actually have a problem with how crappy, uncredentialed colleges market themselves to stupid people, promise the world and leave them in even more debt and even more of a burden to society than they were before. But this woman can just fuck off and die.

[sovereignstar]

A 2.7 GPA??? ROFL

[King of New York]

She'd better hope that none of her prospective employers knows how to use The Google, because if they do, she just made herself unhireable forever.

[BrianD]

Wow, that is one dumb woman. Colleges don't do the work to find jobs for their students...they just teach you how to work the process and help you find leads. The students still need to do the work to get hired.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by Noop

I read this the other day and wondered why someone hasn't done this earlier.

+1

Given the bill of goods that many tuition payers seem to be sold by many institutions this was pretty much inevitable and I wouldn't be remotely surprised to see someone eventually win a case like this.

[Galaxy]

As Thompson sees it, any reasonable employer would pounce on an applicant with her academic credentials, which include a 2.7 grade-point average and a solid attendance record. But Monroe's career-services department has put forth insufficient effort to help her secure employment, she claims.

"They're supposed to say, 'I got this student, her attendance is good, her GPA is all right -- can you interview this person?' They're not doing that," she said.

Has she never gone through the process before? It's called applying for a job with a cover letter/resume, ect.

[DaddyTorgo]

lol apparently she hasn't. hahaha

[sterlingice]

Originally Posted by King of New York

She'd better hope that none of her prospective employers knows how to use The Google, because if they do, she just made herself unhireable forever.

I dunno. This reminds me of an episode of the short-lived Dilbert tv show where he brings down Nirvana Corp (the perfect place to work), mostly by accident. I think it was Dogbert who mentions that it will be much easier to find him work now that he's infamous than with all the good years of hard, unnoticed work.

SI

[molson]

Even Harvard won't work as your personal agent in getting you a job.

It must have been a real hard crash back to earth for this lady.

Though the U.S. would do well to have 50% of the "colleges" in this country close down.

[sterlingice]

Originally Posted by molson

Though the U.S. would do well to have 50% of the "colleges" in this country close down.

True to a point. Only works if we somehow manage to start some protectionism for some of our "less skilled" jobs and/or really lock down on illegal immigration. There simply just aren't enough jobs here right now and they're leaving faster than they are being created and have been for years

SI

[Maple Leafs]

As Thompson sees it, any reasonable employer would pounce on an applicant with her academic credentials, which include a 2.7 grade-point average and a solid attendance record ... She suggested that Monroe's Office of Career Advancement shows preferential treatment to students with excellent grades. "They favor more toward students that got a 4.0. They help them more out with the job placement," she said.

I can't say how much I enjoy journalism that pretends to be objective but is secretly making fun of the subject.

[Lathum]

Maybe this guy will take the case for her

[M GO BLUE!!!]

I am going to hold off on passing judgment until I see a picture of this dumb bitch.

[JonInMiddleGA]

From the school website

We assist you in all of your career planning efforts. We provide individual career counseling services, conduct workshops on resume writing, interviewing, networking, career planning, etc., locate full and part - time employment opportunites, coordinate an internship (co-operative education) program, provide career assessment, and host a number of on campus recruitment events and job fairs throughout the year.

We can argue pretty easily whether she interpreted that bolded part too literally or too broadly, but in light of the suit I'm not sure that any school ought to have that phrase included in their claimed services at this point either.

[sterlingice]

To be fair, they say they "assist" and promise nothing. I'm sure they have a job placement office that she could have gone to and they have fulfilled their legal obligation
SI

[Pumpy Tudors]

Originally Posted by Lathum

Maybe this guy will take the case for her

how did i get involved

[lighthousekeeper]

heh - good find

[EagleFan]

WTF? Someone else trying to blame their problems on someone other than themselves...

[RainMaker]

Originally Posted by JonInMiddleGA

+1

Given the bill of goods that many tuition payers seem to be sold by many institutions this was pretty much inevitable and I wouldn't be remotely surprised to see someone eventually win a case like this.

While I don't think it's the case with higher end schools, I do wonder about some of the vocational schools that advertise heavily on TV. We have Westwood College here and from what I've heard, the degree isn't worth the paper it's printed on.

I'm not saying she's right and I don't know enough details about it. But colleges do need to be careful in what they promise their students.

[Lathum]

Originally Posted by RainMaker

While I don't think it's the case with higher end schools, I do wonder about some of the vocational schools that advertise heavily on TV. We have Westwood College here and from what I've heard, the degree isn't worth the paper it's printed on.

I'm not saying she's right and I don't know enough details about it. But colleges do need to be careful in what they promise their students.

I don't really buy this.

When selecting a school it is your responsibility to research what a degree from there can do for you in the real world. A simple google search can tell you if it is worth it or not. An education is an investment that you expect a lifelong return on so like any investment you better do some research ahead of time.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by RainMaker

We have Westwood College here and from what I've heard, the degree isn't worth the paper it's printed on.

Sounds like a large number of state colleges & universities I could name.

But colleges do need to be careful in what they promise their students.

From a legal sense, absolutely.

But from a more general prospective, society has spent so much energy promoting the placebo of a college degree as the solution to everyone's problems to the extent of it becoming some sort of an end all & be all proposition that I think this woman happens to be the first to get publicity for suing but she's far from alone is feeling like she got ripped off. And I'm not sure I blame her too much for that.

[RainMaker]

Originally Posted by Lathum

I don't really buy this.

When selecting a school it is your responsibility to research what a degree from there can do for you in the real world. A simple google search can tell you if it is worth it or not. An education is an investment that you expect a lifelong return on so like any investment you better do some research ahead of time.

First off, I'm not defending her lawsuit. I don't know the details so I don't want to get thrust into the camp of saying she is right.

But I will argue that colleges and universities should not be treated differently than any other product or service you purchase. If you buy a hair gel that says it will grow hair on your head and it doesn't, do you have a right to sue? If the school promised in their marketing materials that they would help her find a job and didn't provide that service, doesn't she have a case?

[RainMaker]

Originally Posted by JonInMiddleGA

From a legal sense, absolutely.

But from a more general prospective, society has spent so much energy promoting the placebo of a college degree as the solution to everyone's problems to the extent of it becoming some sort of an end all & be all proposition that I think this woman happens to be the first to get publicity for suing but she's far from alone is feeling like she got ripped off. And I'm not sure I blame her too much for that.

I think the problem is that people think that a degree is a magic elixir that entitles you to a great job. That any degree in any major means a job is waiting for you. College is a great way to advance yourself in certain professions. It's a necessary as well in many. But there is a huge difference in a Chemistry degree and a Political Science degree.

We promote this idea that everyone needs to go to college, but don't promote the idea that people need to go to college for the right reasons and decide what their goals are early on.

[Lathum]

Originally Posted by RainMaker

First off, I'm not defending her lawsuit. I don't know the details so I don't want to get thrust into the camp of saying she is right.

But I will argue that colleges and universities should not be treated differently than any other product or service you purchase. If you buy a wrinkle cream that says it will grow hair on your head and it doesn't, do you have a right to sue? If the school promised in their marketing materials that they would help her find a job and didn't provide that service, doesn't she have a case?

They article stated the school didn't promise anything of the sort. They provide assistance.

And IMO you are looking at it the wrong way. Going to college isn't a product you buy. It is an investment. For example, when you join a gym they may tell you with hard work they will help you get to your goal, but you have to put in the effort. Now if you only go twice a week and don't get the results you felt they promised should you sue them?

The bottom line is college is an investment that you need to spend wisely on and be educated on the benefits. If you don't get the desired results it is your responsibility, not the schools. Maybe she should have worked harder at her investment.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by Lathum

Going to college isn't a product you buy. It is an investment.

I'd disagree almost completely. The product is typically a degree that theoretically has some value on the job market.

[sterlingice]

To be fair, college is probably the second most expensive thing you will put money into behind a house and a lot of us I know spent a couple of years shopping around and educating ourselves about it. But, at the end of the day, it's not as easy as "educating yourself on the benefits"- I think most people going into college do that but you still can't grasp what you're getting out of it because it's just too big.

SI

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by sterlingice

To be fair, college is probably the second most expensive thing you will put money into behind a house and a lot of us I know spent a couple of years shopping around and educating ourselves about it. But, at the end of the day, it's not as easy as "educating yourself on the benefits"- I think most people going into college do that but you still can't grasp what you're getting out of it because it's just too big.

I'd probably argue the "most people" down to "some people" but realistically as the number of people attending college rises, the percentage of those capable of grasping how it works, what value it might have, and have to make use of that after graduation declines.

[GoldenEagle]

Originally Posted by sovereignstar

A 2.7 GPA??? ROFL

Meh. I don't GPA is as important as people think it is. in other words, I think most employers ignore it.

[RainMaker]

Originally Posted by Lathum

They article stated the school didn't promise anything of the sort. They provide assistance.

And IMO you are looking at it the wrong way. Going to college isn't a product you buy. It is an investment. For example, when you join a gym they may tell you with hard work they will help you get to your goal, but you have to put in the effort. Now if you only go twice a week and don't get the results you felt they promised should you sue them?

The bottom line is college is an investment that you need to spend wisely on and be educated on the benefits. If you don't get the desired results it is your responsibility, not the schools. Maybe she should have worked harder at her investment.

It may be a personal investment to people who go, but it's still a service provided by an individual entity. You are still paying X amount of dollars to receive what they are offering you as a service (classes, mentoring, etc).

It would be like a gym saying that if you show up and do their Yoga class 5 times a week you'll be able to dunk a basketball. If after you follow their instructions and still can't dunk a basketball, it's false advertising.

I'm not saying this is what the school did and it looks like they didn't. But I am saying that schools do need to be responsible for what they promise their students. If they state that most of their students receive a job within 3 months and that turns out to be a lie, they should be held liable. Their pamphlets and brochures are marketing materials. They are responsible for living up to what they say they will provide you.

[Abe Sargent]

Originally Posted by sterlingice

To be fair, they say they "assist" and promise nothing. I'm sure they have a job placement office that she could have gone to and they have fulfilled their legal obligation
SI

The verb is that sentence is provide, not assist. It says they will provide....job opportunities. Key word is obviously what opportunities means, but that is their language, and it was good research to find it.

[Lathum]

Originally Posted by sterlingice

To be fair, college is probably the second most expensive thing you will put money into behind a house and a lot of us I know spent a couple of years shopping around and educating ourselves about it. But, at the end of the day, it's not as easy as "educating yourself on the benefits"- I think most people going into college do that but you still can't grasp what you're getting out of it because it's just too big.

SI

I agree with this, but if you sink money into University of Phoenix to get some useless degree you have no one to blame but yourself when you get laughed at by potential employers.

[Lathum]

Originally Posted by JonInMiddleGA

I'd disagree almost completely. The product is typically a degree that theoretically has some value on the job market.

an investment is something you put money and/ or time into in order to get a return. In the case of college the return on your investment, among other things, is a good job that you wouldn't have been able to get otherwise. The degree isn't what employers values, it's the investment that the degree represents.

But we will agree to disagree.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by Lathum

The degree isn't what employers values, it's the investment that the degree represents. But we will agree to disagree.

Yeah, we definitely disagree, which is fine. I've just seen too many instances first hand where all that mattered about the degree was that it filled out a few lines on a personnel form/application. Actually, I've seen very very few cases where that wasn't the case.

[Lathum]

Originally Posted by JonInMiddleGA

Yeah, we definitely disagree, which is fine. I've just seen too many instances first hand where all that mattered about the degree was that it filled out a few lines on a personnel form/application. Actually, I've seen very very few cases where that wasn't the case.

I agree with that, and in order to get the good job the investment is required.

[JeeberD]

Originally Posted by GoldenEagle

Meh. I don't GPA is as important as people think it is. in other words, I think most employers ignore it.

For some reason this post really amuses me...

[DaddyTorgo]

nobody has pointed out yet in this thread that frivolous lawsuits like this are a huge drain on the legal system and cost taxpayers $$.

[sterlingice]

Originally Posted by GoldenEagle

Meh. I don't GPA is as important as people think it is. in other words, I think most employers ignore it.

I think it can close doors but it rarely opens them. If yours is too low, you'll get sent off the pile. But employers don't seem to care if it's high as long as it meets a certain threshold.

SI

[flere-imsaho]

GPA only matters for your first job out of college (and/or grad school applications) and if you apply to someone with "unique" requirements, like Google. After your first job, it's all about experience and how you did in your last job (combined with how well you interview, how well you network, etc...).

This young woman may, however slightly, have a case if her school says they'll do concrete things for her job search and then demonstrably failed to do those things, but if this is how she's going to react every time someone fails to do something they said they'd do, she's in for a long and disappointing stay in the workforce.

[Samdari]

Originally Posted by GoldenEagle

Meh. I don't GPA is as important as people think it is. in other words, I think most employers ignore it.

I don't think this is true at all. Most large companies don't have time to interview all their applicants. They don't even have time to have a human read and evaluate all resumes. Thus the thousands of resumes they get for hundreds of entry level openings are get categorized by GPA (and school). A 2.7 from an unheard of school will never even get seen by human eyes, let alone get to a phone screen.

[DaddyTorgo]

has anyone actually heard of this school??

[Celeval]

Originally Posted by Abe Sargent

The verb is that sentence is provide, not assist. It says they will provide....job opportunities. Key word is obviously what opportunities means, but that is their language, and it was good research to find it.

That's key to me - providing opportunities does not mean providing a job.

Baseball analogy - a player can be provided with plenty of "hit opportunities" by his manager, but it's all up to him whether he actually gets a hit.

[Celeval]

Originally Posted by JonInMiddleGA

Yeah, we definitely disagree, which is fine. I've just seen too many instances first hand where all that mattered about the degree was that it filled out a few lines on a personnel form/application. Actually, I've seen very very few cases where that wasn't the case.

Depends strongly on industry and school, I think. Random no-name school means pretty much nothing to me when interviewing potential job candidates, but getting a degree from a school with a good in-field reputation implies certain characteristics to me.

I'm generally interviewing programmer-types. The face that someone has a degree in CS from Monroe College wouldn't mean a thing to me - hell, they may have only been taught Java, and poorly. If they have the degree from Georgia Tech, I know enough about GT's curriculum to know they're familiar with a variety of languages and (should) have been taught concepts and how-to-do-things rather than a focus on syntax. That means something to me.

Of course, two jobs away from the degree, and it no longer matters when I'm interviewing.

HOWEVER, I fully believe that the education they get in college generally will influence how they do at those first two jobs. If they can apply it or learn it there, then great. If not - doesn't matter how good the education was to begin with.