Teachers aren't too bright

[21C]

Let's start out by saying that I am a teacher - high school Math. Sometimes I just have to shake my head and wonder who some of these people that are teaching our kids.

Story 1:
We had an after school meeting to discuss different things. One of the teachers was to present some information on Occupational Health and Safety. He had a Word file opened that was being displayed on a data projector. He then asks the IT guy to assist him get the relevant page on display. I'm thinking that he needed another file opened but all he needed was to scroll down!

I could not believe what I was seeing. It wasn't like he had his hands full with some demonstration. In about five minutes he again calls for assistance to scroll down.

Story 2:
We had a union meeting to discuss our recent pay rise - which was amazing in our current economic climate. It was broken down into three parts - 4.4% this year, 3.8% next year and 3.8% the year after.

We are a Catholic school and one of the teachers asks why we are not getting the same deal as the public schools when we always match their pay rises. He says that their pay rise was reported as being 12.48% over three years but ours only adds up to 12%.

Immediately everyone else starts to talk amongst themselves and ask the same thing. As a Math teacher, I know the answer but I wasn't going to correct the guy in front of everyone.

Eventually someone speaks up and says that it is because the rises are compounded which will result in 12.48% by the end of the three years. I watch all of the teachers in amazement as they ask each other if that is true. Even some of my fellow Math teachers are having it explained to them - and we teach this kind of stuff.

[Danny]

Pretty ridiculous math teachers couldn't figure out the second one. For the first one, the age certainly is a factor. How old was this person? I know plenty of perfectly intelligent people who simply are clueless when it comes to technology. They are from a generation that never used things like that growing up generally.

[21C]

The guy doing the talk in the first story is about 50. I wouldn't call him dumb but I guess he must be computer-challenged. A bit surprising since we do things like writing our reports on the computer.

The Math thing isn't too surprising either. Our school changed calculators a couple of years ago. Instead of entering stuff like tan-64 as we do now, we previously had to enter it as 64-tan. It took me about 30 minutes to get used to the changes. The rest of the staff needed a representative from the calculator company sent out to explain the changes to us.

[johnnyshaka]

I work in the IT Dept. at a school district...nothing surprises me anymore about teachers. Don't get me wrong, I have the highest respect for the jobs they take on but a teacher, of all people, should embrace the motto of "life-long learning" better than anybody in any field...am I wrong?

The paramaters of my job change everyday and if I don't stay on top of things then I'm not doing my job and should be canned on principle alone. So when I hear the excuse about somebody "not growing up with computers" I call BS. Whether they like it or not their jobs are forever changing and they need to adapt or else they become irrelevant and that isn't helping anybody, least of all, the kids sitting in front of them in the classroom.

[jeff061]

Having consulted for IT departments in school districts I respect anyone who lived that nightmare.

Main problem I had with the teachers was they all expect the rules of IT, specifically security(which no one understands even exists), should be broken for their own special requirements and needs. It's like that everywhere, except in schools they generally get the backing of principals and superintendents. "Teaching comes before everything" is the general guideline.

Also, the few teachers that taught computer courses thought they were experts while their students were far more knowledgeable. I used to have to fight off teachers declaring they should be managing the mail system. Ugh.

[21C]

There are a lot of technically able people that I work with but I can't get over the number of technophobes. The same Math teachers that can't learn how to use a "new" calculator will be the first to criticize a kid for not learning algebra.

Our students need to do a statewide general computer use exam and the Math department is responsible for "teaching" spreadsheets. There are at least three teachers out of a staff of eight that tremble with fear at the very thought of this. One of them has asked me to teach her class about spreadsheets while she takes mine for "normal" Math.

[Eaglesfan27]

I ask teachers to complete many different forms on troubled kids to get feedback on them and all of the forms have sections for comments. Many are responded to with well written out responses, but I'd say at least 10% of them have major spelling mistakes on relatively simple words. I know teachers are rushed and maybe that contributes to the mistakes.

[molson]

Teachers should be paid more, but it should be a lot harder to become one. As it stands, they're overpaid, and it annoys me to no end when the whine about their pay, which compares very, very, favorable (in most states) to government lawyers, policeman, fireman, etc. And its typically really difficult to fire the idiot ones.

Education should be a more elite, more competitive discipline. Pay them more, attract better talent, but be relentless with cutting them loose when they're idiots.

[Passacaglia]

Here's a fun 'stupid teacher' story I read recently. Okay, it's probably more of an 'obsessed actuaries' story, but if you read all the way through, you'll get to the stupid teacher part:

State Math Problem - Actuarial Outpost

[JPhillips]

One of the problems with education reform ideas is that nobody wants to accept the fact that in such a large profession there will always be a portion that's well below average. There isn't any way to get all good teachers.

[RedKingGold]

There are people who are bad at their jobs or don't appear to have the required intelligence needed for the occupation. Big shock there.

I'd bet you could substitute any profession for "teachers" and have the exact same problem(s).

[QuikSand]

The problem with saying "we need much better teachers" is that we need to damned many of them. To reference a bumper sticker I saw recently, "We've got plenty of youth. How about a fountain of smart?"

[cuervo72]

This is nothing new. I had a big argument with my 2nd grade teacher when I disagreed with her assertion that there were 34 cm in a foot.

[Noop]

I think that might be because most of the teachers who would be good go to other professions. If I had to guess most of the English majors plan to go on to law school or work toward their masters in something other then education. The Education majors(before it was cut at FIU) aren't the brightest pair of apples in the bunch.

[jeff061]

Those who can do, those who can't teach.


Yeah, there are exceptions. So don't pounce on me.

[MJ4H]

Saying there are exceptions to that is like saying there are exceptions to i hate jews.

[jeff061]

Does that count as a Godwin? What's the line on that?

[MJ4H]

probably

[sterlingice]

Well, this is a thread entitled "teachers aren't too bright" with 2 silly anecdotes painting an entire profession. So, it's not exactly a deep and enlightening thread to begin with...

SI

[Noop]

Originally Posted by sterlingice

Well, this is a thread entitled "teachers aren't too bright" with 2 silly anecdotes painting an entire profession. So, it's not exactly a deep and enlightening thread to begin with...

SI

I am sure he and others who are around the teaching profession can come up with plenty.

[Passacaglia]

Originally Posted by Noop

I am sure he and others who are around the teaching profession can come up with plenty.

Oh, then I guess it's okay.

[sterlingice]

Originally Posted by Noop

I am sure he and others who are around the teaching profession can come up with plenty.

"Florida State players aren't too bright (and get into trouble with the law)"

SI

[Noop]

Originally Posted by Passacaglia

Oh, then I guess it's okay.

That comment hit home eh? Why did you become a teacher?

[Noop]

Originally Posted by sterlingice

"Florida State players aren't too bright (and get into trouble with the law)"

SI

I don't go to Florida State, I root for the team, but I don't go to the school nor have I ever played for them. However if you want to bring that into the discussion then by all means, if your a teacher you should know a thing or two about staying on topic or being relevant to the topic.

[Subby]

Originally Posted by Noop

The Education majors(before it was cut at FIU) aren't the brightest pair of apples in the bunch.

This sentence is oozing with awesomeness.

Also, I love that there is an intellectual hierarchy at...FIU.

[JPhillips]

Originally Posted by Noop

I don't go to Florida State, I root for the team, but I don't go to the school nor have I ever played for them. However if you want to bring that into the discussion then by all means, if your a teacher you should know a thing or two about staying on topic or being relevant to the topic.

Future lawyers aren't too bright.

[Ronnie Dobbs2]

Dig up, noop.

[Noop]

Originally Posted by Subby

This sentence is oozing with awesomeness.

Also, I love that there is an intellectual hierarchy at...FIU.

I need to reword it then because I wasn't trying to imply any major was in possession of smarter people. I was attempting to say that Education majors at FIU struggled when they had to get a different major. Like the English Education majors had to become English majors, the Math Education majors had to become Math majors, etc. My observation with regard to the English majors was they struggled with the course work because they weren't use to the format of classes.(I.e. one book a week, quiz, discussion about book, rinse and repeat)

One of the young ladies told me at most they read three books and weren't use to being required to read over a week, usually weekends.

[Passacaglia]

Originally Posted by Noop

That comment hit home eh? Why did you become a teacher?

I'm not a teacher. Are you asserting that someone can argue against the statement "teachers aren't too bright" only if he or she is a teacher?

[Noop]

Originally Posted by JPhillips

Future lawyers aren't too bright.

I guess not because the use of your and you're is clearly an indicator of someone's intelligence and captivity to learn a profession.

[Noop]

Originally Posted by Passacaglia

I'm not a teacher. Are you asserting that someone can argue against the statement "teachers aren't too bright" only if he or she is a teacher?

No. I am just saying someone who is around the profession can give more examples to support his argument. Do you ask your roofer about the plumbing? You could and you might get some great insight or you can get insight from someone who plumbs(is that even a word?) for a living.

[Passacaglia]

Originally Posted by Noop

No. I am just saying someone who is around the profession can give more examples to support his argument. Do you ask your roofer about the plumbing? You could and you might get some great insight or you can get insight from someone who plumbs(is that even a word?) for a living.

That's obviously true. How many examples would it take to sufficiently support that argument?

[Noop]

Originally Posted by Passacaglia

That's obviously true. How many examples would it take to sufficiently support that argument?

That's a good question however I don't have an answer nor did I ever claimed to have an answer.

[jeff061]

The anti "teachers are stupid"(exaggerated for more antagonistic effect) movement is using jew hatred and grammar to back their cause. This surely will solidify any stance.

[Logan]

Originally Posted by Noop

I was attempting to say that Education majors at FIU struggled when they had to get a different major. Like the English Education majors had to become English majors, the Math Education majors had to become Math majors, etc.

That's probably because they are completely different fields that lead to completely different jobs which require completely different skills. What else would you expect? One of my best friends from school was a math major, graduated with a 4.0, and now works at Google developing all the algorithms used in the search process. He's doing really well and is extremely successful (both in stature and financially) for a guy my age.

Remove the math major from Rutgers, ship him to the education school, and force him to handle sophomore geometry classes like my ex-girlfriend has and he's probably on his ass before the first marketing period is over.

Point is, your comparison is about as relevant as someone losing their ability to major in economics and then focusing on the culinary arts.

[sterlingice]

Originally Posted by Noop

I don't go to Florida State, I root for the team, but I don't go to the school nor have I ever played for them. However if you want to bring that into the discussion then by all means, if you're a teacher you should know a thing or two about staying on topic or being relevant to the topic.

You have always been rabidly defensive of them so I gave you an example I thought you could relate to, what with what happened earlier this week. I guess that didn't work. Then again, you missed the point of my original post so I guess that's not surprising.

Just because there are some examples out there doesn't mean it can be true to stereotype an entire group. If I were a teacher, I might point out how you're contradicting yourself with your pedantic little remark. However, as I am not, I won't do that.

SI

[Ronnie Dobbs2]

Originally Posted by jeff061

The anti "teachers are stupid"(exaggerated for more antagonistic effect) movement is using jew hatred and grammar to back their cause. This surely will solidify any stance.

What exactly have the "teachers are dumb" movement used to support their case that is so awe-inspring?

[Noop]

Originally Posted by Logan

That's probably because they are completely different fields that lead to completely different jobs which require completely different skills. What else would you expect? One of my best friends from school was a math major, graduated with a 4.0, and now works at Google developing all the algorithms used in the search process. He's doing really well and is extremely successful (both in stature and financially) for a guy my age.

Remove the math major from Rutgers, ship him to the education school, and force him to handle sophomore geometry classes like my ex-girlfriend has and he's probably on his ass before the first marketing period is over.

Point is, your comparison is about as relevant as someone losing their ability to major in economics and then focusing on the culinary arts.

That's a valid point.

[jeff061]

I worked with a few once. They were dumb.

I give the teachers in my high school a pass since the culture there was just ridiculous. They couldn't be expected to thrive there. But that's another thread altogether.

[Noop]

Originally Posted by sterlingice

You have always been rabidly defensive of them so I gave you an example I thought you could relate to, what with what happened earlier this week. I guess that didn't work. Then again, you missed the point of my original post so I guess that's not surprising.

Recent history would prove you false. I root for the team but I don't defend the actions anymore.(not for the last two years)

Originally Posted by sterlingice

Just because there are some examples out there doesn't mean it can be true to stereotype an entire group. If I were a teacher, I might point out how you're contradicting yourself with your pedantic little remark. However, as I am not, I won't do that.

SI

I never said it was true. I said someone around the profession can likely come up with many examples.

[sterlingice]

Originally Posted by jeff061

I worked with a few once. They were dumb.

I give the teachers in my high school a pass since the culture there were just ridiculous. They couldn't be expected to thrive there. But that's another thread altogether.

I hear anecdotal evidence is always the best and most conclusive

SI

[Subby]

"Hey Dummy"

[Logan]

Originally Posted by Ronnie Dobbs2

What exactly have the "teachers are dumb" movement used to support their case that is so awe-inspring?

Because they don't know how to handle computers, they can't scroll down. Every other profession is great at using computers! (last one is of course the best)

And thanks noop.

[cuervo72]

I would suggest that different teachers require different skills.

HS teaching can be highly specialized, and teachers need to be very well versed in the area of their expertise (yes, this includes math teachers). Most of the time this is the case, but not always (like when Computer Math was new and math teachers were teaching it even if they had no programming knowledge). But a Calculus teacher had darned well better know Calc, for instance.

Jr. High is similar, though the depth of the knowledge isn't quite to the level of HS. We had an odd case where a Science teacher was forced to teach Social Studies while at the same time a SS teacher taught Science, but that was the result of some technicality that I didn't have all the details on.

Elementary school strikes me as completely different. Basic reading skills, basic math skills. You don't have to be a genius to teach these. But you *do* have to understand young children and be able to relate to them. Much more psychology involved.

[Kodos]

Originally Posted by Noop

I guess not because the use of your and you're is clearly an indicator of someone's intelligence and captivity to learn a profession.

Words that might make sense in place of "captivity":

capacity
capability
ability

[Noop]

Originally Posted by Kodos

Words that might make sense in place of "captivity":

capacity
capability
ability

Indeed you're right.

[MrDNA]

Originally Posted by Noop

Indeed your write.

Fixed it for you. And you think TEACHERS aren't smart.

[21C]

Originally Posted by sterlingice

Well, this is a thread entitled "teachers aren't too bright" with 2 silly anecdotes painting an entire profession. So, it's not exactly a deep and enlightening thread to begin with...

SI

Thanks for your contribution.

The post was never meant to be anything more than a vent. I'm a teacher. FFS.

[AZSpeechCoach]

Since we're venting here...I'm running a speech tournament at my school starting tomorrow. I need assistance from many people, both classified and certified. To get their assistance, I need to be nice. I'm really tired of hearing the rants about how stupid our administration is, how stupid so-and-so's predecessor was, how fucked up our processes are...just give me what the hell I want and get away from me!

Okay...I need some sleep now

[Mike Lowe]

I got to this thread sort of late. Sorry, I was planning a vacation for Spring Break and thinking about all of the repairs I'll have time to do around the house all summer long. I also plan to spend a lot of time playing with the dogs, watching baseball on Slingbox while relaxing in my hot tub all the while collecting a paycheck for doing nothing that resembles work for 3 months. Some days I literally fall asleep just thinking about how awesome it is that I can't even remember what it feels like to work while everyone else is getting up. Hell, most people work more before lunch that first Monday I am off than I do the entire summer. The summer, of course, is only 12 of the 16+ weeks a year I get paid to not go to work. Speaking of pay, those paychecks have gotten much bigger having completed my Masters, getting nearly a 50% pay increase all the while doing the exact same job I had been doing. The only difference is that it gets easier and easier each semester.

Sorry, I just couldn't resist. Totally exaggerating the point here just to be obnoxious ;-) but I will say that I love my job and would never want it any other way! Teaching is a great gig and if you love learning, love spending time with youth, and enjoy sharing knowledge with peers as well as students, teaching is a fantastic career. You'll always work day-shift, have weekends off, have a union to protect you (plus tenure) and can make a VERY nice living if you play your cards right.

Goodnight, I DO have to work tomorrow though!