High school athletics in your state

[ahbrady]

I'm a coach at a private school in Arkansas. Our state association is voting on changing things up quite a bit for the year after this next one, and I was wondering how some of the other states do things. Currently Arkansas has five classifications ranging from A to AAAAA, with only the top four playing football. Private school students are multiplied by 1.35 to determine what class the private school will participate in. The state association has already determined that the AA and AAA classes will be combined and divided into three different classes. There is a proposal to split the highest classification into two different classes. There is also a proposal to raise the private school multiplier to 1.75.

I don't want either proposal to pass, but I think both will. I obviously have a vested interest in the private school multiplier, so I'm biased on that one. The one about splitting the highest class into two classes is more ridiculous to me. The fact that a state as small as Arkansas will have a AAAAAAA state championship seems absurd. There will also only be 16 schools in the 7A and 6A classifications, which to me cheapens winning a state championship.

Sorry for rambling about that a little too much. I really just wanted to see how other states did their classifications and whether private schools had a multiplier or had their own division.

[Tigercat]

In Louisiana the private schools are just thrown in by enrollment the same exact way as public schools. It used to be that public and private schools could play in football classifications above their enrollment, with HS power Evangel as an example of a 1A enrollment school playing as a 5A football school(5A being the highest classification). Just a few years ago the LHSAA voted and ruled that schools must play in their enrollment classification, so now all schools play under their enrollment. If Louisiana can play under 5 classifications (well more if you count the tiny school classifications such as "C") it would seem strange that Arkansas would need more.

[JonInMiddleGA]

5 classification, A thru AAAAA
they used to be equally divided by ADA, but I believe it's bell-shaped now (well, largest & smallest have lower % of schools than the 3 equal classes in the middle).

Reclassified & reassigned regions every two years (new ones just came out last week, for 2006 season)

Private school multiplier was 1.5 when introduced a few years back, may have been adjusted downward since then.

Also, some private schools (100 or so) have their own separate association, the GISA.
These are mostly smaller (100 or so 9th-12th) schools in middle & south.

[Easy Mac]

Last I heard:

4 classes. Divided by school sizes. Each class has an upper state and a lower state. THe upper and lower champs play for the state championship. Private schools have their own classifications, SCISA. I think they divide it up amongst school size, but I'm not entirely sure. A private school can play in the public school leagues though, also based on school size (I know that in Charleston, the private schools seem almost as large as the normal schools).

In football, class 4A is split between the big 16 tourney and the regular 4A tourney. THe 16 biggest schools play eachother, while the rest of 4A plays eachother. My old high school used to be 4A (now 3A), and we made the playoffs pretty much every year with 1-2 wins because every other school in our region was a big 16 school.

[sterlingice]

A state as big as Texas only has 5A (unless something has changed in the last 5 years). Who the heck would need 7A?

SI

[JeeberD]

Nope, 5A is still the largest classification in Texas, SI...

[JW]

Originally Posted by Tigercat

In Louisiana the private schools are just thrown in by enrollment the same exact way as public schools. It used to be that public and private schools could play in football classifications above their enrollment, with HS power Evangel as an example of a 1A enrollment school playing as a 5A football school(5A being the highest classification). Just a few years ago the LHSAA voted and ruled that schools must play in their enrollment classification, so now all schools play under their enrollment. If Louisiana can play under 5 classifications (well more if you count the tiny school classifications such as "C") it would seem strange that Arkansas would need more.

And the thing to remember about the Class B and C schools in Louisiana are that they are special designations for schools without football teams. They get to start their basketball season early instead.

I do agree w/you. Arkansas does not need any more classifications.

But I think the super classifications may have to do with football powers like we have in Louisiana like West Monroe, that are essentially football factories and are head and shoulders above the average AAAAA school. Maybe Arkansas has that problem.

[sooner333]

Oklahoma has 6A through A, with 32 schools at each level (but more in one of the mid-A levels). 16 teams make the playoffs (the top four in each of the four divisions). Then there is B and C classes which are the small schools that play 8-man football. I believe that private schools play at their enrollment, and there aren't any private schools at the top level (which is basically OKC area, Tulsa area, Lawton area, Enid, and Stillwater).

[Tigercat]

Originally Posted by JW

And the thing to remember about the Class B and C schools in Louisiana are that they are special designations for schools without football teams. They get to start their basketball season early instead.

I do agree w/you. Arkansas does not need any more classifications.

But I think the super classifications may have to do with football powers like we have in Louisiana like West Monroe, that are essentially football factories and are head and shoulders above the average AAAAA school. Maybe Arkansas has that problem.

There are not a TON of real have nots in big(5A) high school Louisiana at least. If you put the right coach in schools like the Lafouches, the River Parishes, the Jefferson Parish schools, some of the Lafayette schools, the Catholic schools or nearly any of the big Northern schools and any of those schools can compete for state under the right circumstances. There aren't that many 5A schools that have no chance to win playoff games in the right situation. The situation may be a lot different in Arkansas though.

[cougarfreak]

I coach varsity baseball in KY, private school enrollment is doubled, and we have 4 classifications for football only. Basketball, Baseball, Soccer and Wrestling are all one classification. Track is two.

[kcchief19]

I believe Missouri uses a 1.35 multiplier for private schools, and I believe they use a 2x multiplier for single-sex schools. Missouri has six classes for football, five for basketball and four classes for most other sports. Some smaller sports with fewer schools have only 2-3 classes. I believe the top two football classes are 32 schools, the rest 64. Basketball and other classes are larger, probably at least 64 each. I know that Kansas is similar, 6 classes of football for sure, but I think they may go up to six classes in other sports. Kansas is a little bigger geographically, but about half the size of Missouri in population.

What's the reasoning behind it? I know in Missouri the reason for splitting the larger football class into two smaller classes was competitiveness; in a 64-team class, there was such a gap between the top tier and the lower tier that teams in the lower tier just got pummeled. But I could see the change also taking place to reduce travel and create smaller districts.

One thing Missouri does that makes senseto me that annoys me about other states: our classes are referred to as 4A, 6A, etc., not this AAAAA or god forbid AAAAAAA crap.

One small (nerd) gripe about Missouri: sports are all divided into classes and MSHSAA oversees two non-sports competitions, music and speech/debate. Music also had five classes, speech/debate one. My high school had more than 30 schools in its district and there are something like 10 districts. Obviously if you one a state title, it was an incredible achievement, and it was a great story when small-school students won titles. But a lot more kids could have won state titles and still felt like they really achieved something if they dividied into say TWO districts and still had 150 schools in each class.

Yeah, I was a masterdebater. Another piece of the nerd puzzle.

[Balldog]

In Ohio the private schools are treated just like public schools, for now. Almost every state champion is a private school.

In basketball and baseball there are 4 Divisions, I - IV.
In football there are 6 Divisions, I - VI.
In track there are 3 Divisions, I - III.

[ScottVib]

CT has 6 divisions in football S, SS, M, MM, L, LL based on male enrollment.

Private (mostly Catholic) Schools compete in the same divisions as the public schools without a multiplier.

Some Private/Prep schools (i.e. Avon Old Farms) are outside of the CIAC.


VT has 4 divisions in football, based on enrollment, however successful programs can be moved up beyond their enrollment classification. Division IV is exclusively for 8 Man football. Division III for the smallest schools on up to Division I. Private schools are mixed in with the public schools.

[k0ruptr]

hawaii - large school bracket and a small school bracket. and i like it that way, none of this 5A 3A crap, keep it simple there in highschool and just wanna play.

[finkenst]

Originally Posted by k0ruptr

hawaii - large school bracket and a small school bracket. and i like it that way, none of this 5A 3A crap, keep it simple there in highschool and just wanna play.

Punahou wins everything anyway...

[Young Drachma]

New Jersey has more school districts than any other state in the country (significantly more, mostly because of home rule and small district reluctance to merge) and so it's a fairly arcane classification system relative to anywhere else I've been. But it could be because I understand ours a lot better, in all its complexity.

There are four statewide classifications based on size. They range from Group IV, the largest to Group I, the smallest.

Schools are part of one of five regions - North I, North II, Central, South or Non-Public. In football, even the non-publics are broken into their own Group IV to Group I schematic, as are all the public schools.

There are 20 state sectional champions crowned at the end of the football season. There used to be Group playoffs between each of the four sectional champions (North I, II, Central, South and Non-Public) and then a Tournament of Champions among those four at Giants Stadium.

But I think they stopped doing that.

In most other sports, the non-public schools are broken up in North/South A (larger) and B (smaller).

Basketball still does the tournament of champions.

Wrestling has a weird setup that negates all of this, as does Ice Hockey, Volleyball and other minor sports which just do Public/Non-Public.

I think with so many schools playing, 20 state sectional champions isn't too much. It's a really, really competitive state - not that others aren't - but when its all in a small area and the district boundaries are really close, it just makes more sense to reward outstanding seasons.

[BYU 14]

Arizona "officially" has 5 (1A through 5A) with 1A playing 8 man ball. Beginning this year though we will operate with split championships in both 4A and 5A, a 4A 1 and 2 division and the same in 5A. This will apply for the next 2 year block as part of a probable transition to a 6A classification when alignments are redone.

The problem now is all the Schools are mixed up in all the regions. The School I Coach at is 5A II, yet we have 2 5A I schools in our region. We play them both and they count in region standings, but in the playoffs there will be separate brackets for 5A I and 5A II. Really confusing in a way, it also cheapens the playoffs for the next 2 Seasons as under the old format you pretty much needed 7 wins to get into the playoffs with a very ocassional 6 win team sneaking in. Now it is conceivable to see 2 or 3 5-5 Teams make it which is ridiculous IMO.

The reason they did not go to a 6A in this block, with all the growth we have in AZ is the cost and red tape involved in creating a "new" classification, where as by splitting the top two classifications in half there was no need for this.......we will see how it plays out this Season.

[JonInMiddleGA]

One thing that jumped out at me, after reading BYU's post, is that we hardly ever hear anybody mention who is actually in charge in their state.

Here, it's the GHSA, which is a relatively independent body, non-governmental (although the legislature did threaten to seize power a few years back, blackmailing the GHSA into adding the pvt school multiplier to avoid that). Schools that are members have a voting representative, etc., etc.

Is that typical, or is there anybody out there with governmental control of h.s. athletics?

[Young Drachma]

Originally Posted by JonInMiddleGA

One thing that jumped out at me, after reading BYU's post, is that we hardly ever hear anybody mention who is actually in charge in their state.

Here, it's the GHSA, which is a relatively independent body, non-governmental (although the legislature did threaten to seize power a few years back, blackmailing the GHSA into adding the pvt school multiplier to avoid that). Schools that are members have a voting representative, etc., etc.

Is that typical, or is there anybody out there with governmental control of h.s. athletics?

Pretty sure that every state's scholastic organization that governs school sports are quasi or actually independent, as they belong to an organization of all the groups in the country like themselves.

I'd love to hear if they're elected or something in some places.

[ahbrady]

Originally Posted by JonInMiddleGA

One thing that jumped out at me, after reading BYU's post, is that we hardly ever hear anybody mention who is actually in charge in their state.

Here, it's the GHSA, which is a relatively independent body, non-governmental (although the legislature did threaten to seize power a few years back, blackmailing the GHSA into adding the pvt school multiplier to avoid that). Schools that are members have a voting representative, etc., etc.

Is that typical, or is there anybody out there with governmental control of h.s. athletics?

Here its the Arkansas Activities Association(AAA). The abbreviation makes it a little confusing when talking about the AAA governing the different classifications especially class AAA. They are an independent organization. Member schools are the voting reps.

I was interested to hear from all of the different states that are represented here. Thanks for the responses. It sounds like there are quite a few different variations.

[finkenst]

illinois, indiana, ohio, and new mexico all have scholastic sports groups that are independent.

[AZSpeechCoach]

Arizona has the Arizona Interscholastic Association (AIA) which handles all extracurricular sports and most non-athletic competitions (chess, speech, cheerleading, music, theatre). I serve on the State speech and debate advisory committee, and they are not very supportive to you if you don't play with a ball.

[MrBug708]

California has CIF (California Interscholastic Federation, I think) and different regions of that through the state. They don't have a true state football champion of any sort. FOotball works totally different though. My old private school (enrollment of 520) was Division 11 for football, Division 5 for everything else. The lower division the better.