Tour de France 2005

[wbatl1]

Well, today is the first day of the Tour. I am by no means a huge follower of cycling, but I do get excited for and watch the Giro'd italia(or however you spell it) and the Tour de France. So, who else is excited and what are your thoughts?

[korme]

Go Lance baby. Livestrong.

[Joe]

Lance is a dick

[ice4277]

Wake me up when the final weekend is here.

[terpkristin]

I too am going to be one of the ones watching every day. Usually, if I have time, I try to put my bike up on the trainer while watching it, so I can ride along with the boys on the TdF. I'm also a Lance fan, been once since long before the cancer, during the time when he was a total asshole to his teammates and coaches.

GO LANCE!!!

/tk

[fantastic flying froggies]

There are already some quite large differences made in the prologue today. Of course, the favorites haven't started yet...

[fantastic flying froggies]

dola- I don't really have anything against Lance, but I really hope he doesn't win this year, it'd be nice if somebody else won it for a change...

Whatever happens, I hope it will a Tour with many attacks and offensives, unlike the last couple of boring years...

[MrBug708]

If Lance doesn't win this year you can bet the steroid issue will be brought up often/

Of course, I'm probably in the minority who thinks he has juiced at various times in his life, not necessarily during the TDF

[terpkristin]

Wow.



I can't believe that Lance passed Ullrich. Shows why I really don't have much faith in Ullrich, though...he never seems to be in good form for the TdF. And, as the commentators mentioned, he had a bad loss in the Tour de Suisse, the pre-TdF race that people pegged him to win.

/tk

[wbatl1]

Looks to me like T-Mobil will once again struglle to find a leader with that very mediocre preformance from Ullrich

[korme]

Originally Posted by fantastic flying froggies

dola- I don't really have anything against Lance, but I really hope he doesn't win this year, it'd be nice if somebody else won it for a change...

Whatever happens, I hope it will a Tour with many attacks and offensives, unlike the last couple of boring years...

Well it is his last year so next year there will be a new champ. So you're good after this year when Lance takes #7

[sachmo71]

Are they going to call it "Tour De Lance" all month again?

[korme]

No, they will call it

Tour de Lance

[thealmighty]

Originally Posted by George W Bush

Lance is a dick

But he's OUR dick.

[Emiliano]

I was about to start a thread on the Tour, but I was out all day. I'll be watching, like every year. I'm a huge cycling fan.
Obviously Armstrong is clearly the favorite even this year. I don't see anyone on his level. I did see some good things from Ivan Basso in the Giro (although he finished like 20ish cause he had a really bad mountain day) so I have some hope on him.
BTW, Zabriskie won the prologue. Armstrong finished 2nd. Basso 20th, at 1'20''. Not a good start for Ivan I suppose...

[Airhog]

I must object that this cannot be a real thread, since you did not call it tour de lance!

[Buccaneer]

Lance is just about ready to win the ITT. No drama this Tour, just one exceptionally and phenomenonly strong rider.

[Easy Mac]

Maybe I don't understand cycling (and I don't), but aside from 1 move in like the 6th stage, his rivals never tried anything to get past Lance. Do they just not care, or am I missing something inherent in cycling. I wouldn't think 3 minutes would be hard to make up over 10 days (about the time he built the lead). Get 30 seconds up a day, and you have him.

[Buccaneer]

Every time Basso, Rassmussen or Ullrich make a move, Lance would just catch them and stay on their back wheels. Lance rode safe all week because he could afford to.

[wbatl1]

A great tour overall from Discovery. Everyone did their job, and it culminated with a first in the GC, a white jersey, a good finish in the Team classification, and two stage wins. Bravo!

[MIJB#19]

Originally Posted by wbatl1

A great tour overall from Discovery. Everyone did their job, and it culminated with a first in the GC, a white jersey, a good finish in the Team classification, and two stage wins. Bravo!

Four stages wins. :P

Okay, I've followed the Tour de France since 1993 and I have to admit that the way Johan Bruyneel and Lance Arsmtrong made their team work, I am impressed and sthink they've shown exactly what cycling is all about: having the best team and best strategy. Armstong deserves the wins. But part of me is sad about the dominance, the lack of excitement and so little surprises this Tour. And the absence of Armstrong, arguably the best rider in the world, in other races is a sad sign. It's probably setting a trend that Le Tour is for the berst riders and the rest of the season is for the rest of the pro's.

It's almost like an NFL team saving their best quarterback to only play in one or two important rivalry games and the playoffs.

[Vince]

To continue the football analogy...

...do you think it would be better if riders/teams (I know nothing of cycling, so I don't know if all races are a team event) had to earn their way into the Tour? You don't see star QBs being sat for just that reason -- the playoffs aren't guaranteed until you earn it. Would Cycling be improved as a sport if there was a 'league system' or something similar in which only the top teams made it to the tour? I have no idea if that's possible, but it seems as if the problem of the best riders avoiding other races is because there is absolutely no motivation for them to race other than the Tour.

[Honolulu_Blue]

Are we there yet?

[Icy]

Originally Posted by Vince

To continue the football analogy...

...do you think it would be better if riders/teams (I know nothing of cycling, so I don't know if all races are a team event) had to earn their way into the Tour? You don't see star QBs being sat for just that reason -- the playoffs aren't guaranteed until you earn it. Would Cycling be improved as a sport if there was a 'league system' or something similar in which only the top teams made it to the tour? I have no idea if that's possible, but it seems as if the problem of the best riders avoiding other races is because there is absolutely no motivation for them to race other than the Tour.

There is already that league system, some divisions and a ladder system between them, but some teams are auto invited to the tour and of course Amstrong one is. It's all about money, else they would be forced to run some other races to get points to qualify.

[Vince]

Originally Posted by Icy

There is already that league system, some divisions and a ladder system between them, but some teams are auto invited to the tour and of course Amstrong one is. It's all about money, else they would be forced to run some other races to get points to qualify.

Ah. That's sort of sad...

[Icy]

You made me curious and i saw i was wrong, by cyclist Armstrong is #49 in the rankings, but his team is racing to get the points. Anyway the Tour organization has the rights to invite teams even not qualified. Here are the current world federation rankings:

By team:
1 PHO PHONAK HEARING SYSTEMS SWITZERLAND 230
2 DVL DAVITAMON-LOTTO BELGIUM 224
3 RAB RABOBANK NETHERLANDS 222
4 CSC TEAM CSC DENMARK 214
5 SDV SAUNIER DUVAL - PRODIR SPAIN 188
6 FAS FASSA BORTOLO ITALY 182
7 C.A CREDIT AGRICOLE FRANCE 177
8 LSW LIBERTY SEGUROS - WÜRTH TEAM SPAIN 173
9 DSC DISCOVERY CHANNEL UNITED STATES OF AMERICA 161
10 TMO T-MOBILE TEAM GERMANY 158
11 COF COFIDIS, LE CREDIT PAR TELEPHONE FRANCE 156
12 GST GEROLSTEINER GERMANY 151
13 LIQ LIQUIGAS-BIANCHI ITALY 143
14 QST QUICK STEP BELGIUM 136
15 IBA ILLES BALEARS - CAISSE D'EPARGNE SPAIN 131
16 LAM LAMPRE - CAFFITA ITALY 130
17 BTL BOUYGUES TELECOM FRANCE 109
18 DOM DOMINA VACANZE ITALY 79
19 FDJ FRANÇAISE DES JEUX FRANCE 77
20 EUS EUSKALTEL - EUSKADI SPAIN 70

By country:

1 ITA ITALY 540
2 ESP SPAIN 337
3 USA UNITED STATES OF AMERICA 243
4 BEL BELGIUM 223
5 GER GERMANY 211
6 AUS AUSTRALIA 173
7 NED NETHERLANDS 112
8 FRA FRANCE 94
9 COL COLOMBIA 94
10 UKR UKRAINE 86
11 KAZ KAZAKHSTAN 81
12 SUI SWITZERLAND 77
13 LUX LUXEMBOURG 75
14 RUS RUSSIAN FEDERATION 73
15 NOR NORWAY 57
16 SWE SWEDEN 30
17 DEN DENMARK 25
18 SLO SLOVENIA 15
19 EST ESTONIA 2
20 AUT AUSTRIA 1

More info and individual rankings at:
http://www.uci.ch/uciroot/wspage.asp....06.2005&l=eng

[MIJB#19]

Originally Posted by Icy

There is already that league system, some divisions and a ladder system between them, but some teams are auto invited to the tour and of course Amstrong one is. It's all about money, else they would be forced to run some other races to get points to qualify.

Sorry, but i disagree with that.

All teams in today's Tour de France had to work their way up over the years. 20 of 21 teams are UCI ProTour, who had to show sportive success, financial gurantees and more to be allowed in the 'Major League' of cycling with 20 teams and about 30 races, including Le Tour de France. The 21st team was invited. That team had to perform in second tier races and is also ther due to their French origin.

The riders have had to work their way up to be hired by ProTour teams, just like an NFL quarterback has to prove himself in college to be drafted and then has to show his skills in camps and games to remain at the squad.

[Vince]

The team has to show sportive success -- does the team have to include Lance, or can he just join up for Le Tour?

[Icy]

Originally Posted by MIJB#19

Sorry, but i disagree with that.

All teams in today's Tour de France had to work their way up over the years. 20 of 21 teams are UCI ProTour, who had to show sportive success, financial gurantees and more to be allowed in the 'Major League' of cycling with 20 teams and about 30 races, including Le Tour de France. The 21st team was invited. That team had to perform in second tier races and is also ther due to their French origin.

The riders have had to work their way up to be hired by ProTour teams, just like an NFL quarterback has to prove himself in college to be drafted and then has to show his skills in camps and games to remain at the squad.

You're right, i already corrected myself on the second post posting the UCI rankings.

[thealmighty]

Originally Posted by Vince

The team has to show sportive success -- does the team have to include Lance, or can he just join up for Le Tour?

A team can bring whomever they choose once they get in, I believe.

Also, some of you who don't follow cycling (I have followed the Tour- not cycling in general, however, for the better part of 20 years- saw Lemond's great time trial that won for him that year against Hinault, I believe) teams have more than the 9 riders entered in a tour. They pick the ones who are in the best form, or who have a skill that will be especially needed for the particular event.

[fantastic flying froggies]

Don't forget that Salvoldeli, a rider from Discovery also won the Giro this year. The Giro is the Italian tour and just as big as the TdF.

[fantastic flying froggies]

Originally Posted by thealmighty

...- saw Lemond's great time trial that won for him that year against Hinault, I believe) ...

Close but no cigar. It was Fignon who lost his yellow jersey for 8 little seconds...

[MIJB#19]

Originally Posted by thealmighty

A team can bring whomever they choose once they get in, I believe.

Also, some of you who don't follow cycling (I have followed the Tour- not cycling in general, however, for the better part of 20 years- saw Lemond's great time trial that won for him that year against Hinault, I believe) teams have more than the 9 riders entered in a tour. They pick the ones who are in the best form, or who have a skill that will be especially needed for the particular event.

Almost the opposite is what makes Lance Armstrong's success so amazing.

He's been sitting around the table with manager Johan Bruyneel and they carefully selected the riders who would fit best in a supporting role to Armstrong. Sure, every big rider does that, but Armstrong & Bruyneel seems to have almost perfectionized the team building by finding the best fits for every role that has to be filled during the three weeks. So, in stead of randomly signing about 25-30 riders and selecting the 8 best to help him, the Discovery Channel team has persued and signed about 15 riders who could make the 9-men Tour de France selection, plan their seasons accordinly for every rider to be at their best in Le Tour and support Lance Armstrong as best as possible.

[Mr. Wednesday]

And for all of that, in addition to Savoldelli's Giro this year, I believe they have a Vuelta or two on the mantle as well from a few years back.

[amdaily]

It was a great sight to see the old Red, White, and Blue once again hoisted over Paris and the anthem played loduly in the background. God Bless America

[EagleFan]

I would like to point out the totally classless fans that are present for that event. People spitting on and throwing things at Lance as he rides past. If this were held in America and something even remotely like that happened it would end up making some huge headline in a paper in France about how bad the Americans act.

Here's a novel idea, how about a little better security for the riders at this event.

[21C]

Was there much spitting and throwing of things this year? I can't say I saw or heard anything about that this year - I think that was happening last year or the year before when the doping whispers were the loudest. I saw a lot of support for Lance from the people on the sides of the road.

I think that it would be impossible to provide better security without putting barricades all the way down the sides of the road - and remember some stages are hundreds of miles long. I agree that some of the dickheads on the side of the road in the mountain stages are annoying as hell when they lean out in front of the riders and pull back at the last minute - as well as the ones who want to run beside the riders. Quite often these asshats were waving or carrying other flags - like Spanish, German or American - so the degree of stupidity has no boundaries.

[MIJB#19]

Originally Posted by EagleFan

I would like to point out the totally classless fans that are present for that event. People spitting on and throwing things at Lance as he rides past. If this were held in America and something even remotely like that happened it would end up making some huge headline in a paper in France about how bad the Americans act.

Here's a novel idea, how about a little better security for the riders at this event.

Do you even have a clue what the hell you are talking about?

1. These 'fans' are from all over the globe, but the morons are definately not the French folks.
2. All riders have been affected by the morons at the sides, but Armstrong was by far not the biggest 'victim'.
3. I've watched most of the live coverage and the only thing I've seen or heard about being thrown to Lance specifially was water as there are people on te sides who think all riders like that.
4. Why on earth do you need to stir up the ongoing lame and non-sesne America-France political sentiments over a sports event?

I do agree that these morons have to be kept away from the riders.

[21C]

Originally Posted by EagleFan

Here's a novel idea, how about a little better security for the riders at this event.

The other part about this is that it is traditional to allow spectators so close to the riders - they are especially close in the mountain stages since the cyclists are going so much slower than usual and they are often spread out. The fans have to camp out on the roadside all day since the roads are closed for the race.

It is similar in a way to the closeness of baseball fans and basketball fans. Remember there was talk of moving fans further away ( or putting up some barriers ) after the Ron Artest-inspired fan riot and when that fan in Fenway took a swing at Gary Sheffield. Cooler heads prevailed in those situations and fans are still close enough to reach out and touch their heroes - or hurl abuse to the ones they hate. Same in the Tour.

Besides this is not unique in the TdF. Cycling events in every country share the same experience.

[SirFozzie]

There were still cries of "Doper" and "Druggie" when Armstrong passed by in the final stage. Apparently, some folks would rather believe that Armstrong has somehow beaten 200+ drug tests and somehow fooled everybody, despite being in a media spotlight FOR SEVEN STRAIGHT YEARS.

[jeff061]

He was "randomly" tested mulitple times during the tour.

[rkmsuf]

Originally Posted by SirFozzie

There were still cries of "Doper" and "Druggie" when Armstrong passed by in the final stage. Apparently, some folks would rather believe that Armstrong has somehow beaten 200+ drug tests and somehow fooled everybody, despite being in a media spotlight FOR SEVEN STRAIGHT YEARS.

"Le Whizzinator! Le Whizzinator!"

[MIJB#19]

Originally Posted by SirFozzie

There were still cries of "Doper" and "Druggie" when Armstrong passed by in the final stage. Apparently, some folks would rather believe that Armstrong has somehow beaten 200+ drug tests and somehow fooled everybody, despite being in a media spotlight FOR SEVEN STRAIGHT YEARS.

That's what they say about all the cyclists all the time, it's not Armstong limited, although he's getting more media attention, thus also more stuff thrown his way. It's the cry of people who whish they had the skills, durability, professionality and leadership to pull off such an amazing achievement.

[fantastic flying froggies]

Originally Posted by SirFozzie

There were still cries of "Doper" and "Druggie" when Armstrong passed by in the final stage. Apparently, some folks would rather believe that Armstrong has somehow beaten 200+ drug tests and somehow fooled everybody, despite being in a media spotlight FOR SEVEN STRAIGHT YEARS.

Well, that's part of the problem actually. He was controled positive a couple of times during those 7 years, but got away because it was drugs prescribed to him for his treatment.

There is still a hint of suspicion on the whole Discovery team...

I actually think that most riders take drugs and that the cyclist union should allow all doping, that way there would'nt be any more questions about it.

[Blade6119]

Originally Posted by thealmighty

But he's OUR dick.

PRICELESS!!!!!!

[MIJB#19]

Originally Posted by fantastic flying froggies

Well, that's part of the problem actually. He was controled positive a couple of times during those 7 years, but got away because it was drugs prescribed to him for his treatment.

There is still a hint of suspicion on the whole Discovery team...

I actually think that most riders take drugs and that the cyclist union should allow all doping, that way there would'nt be any more questions about it.

And in te meanwhile the president of the UCI claimed in an interview that Armstrong was never ever positive on any test and never ever used prescribed drugs... But he also claimed that Armstrong actually financially supports the development and acquisition of doping testing machines for the UCI. (UCI = the world cycling federation)

[Mr. Wednesday]

Armstrong was on EPO during or after chemo as part of his course of treatment, IIRC. I don't believe he's ever had a positive test during competition.

[Glengoyne]

This year was pretty cool, eventhough I missed the exciting Pyrenes stages while I was on vacation. I thought that Discovery did reasonably well as a team this time. It almost seemed like they wanted to achieve more as a team than "just" supporting Lance. I think that it goes back to when they assembled the team. It seemed like they didn't have the depth of mountain Pace-setters that they had last year, but instead went for a more diverse set of riders. I'm not sure if it was their plan when they built their team, or if Bruneel(sp?) simply looked at the assets he had, and put them to their best use.

I'm interested if Ullrich will be back in form next year. He and Basso have somewhat different strengths, so it could be an interesting competition. I'm also interested how discovery will do with a mere mortal as their lead rider. Not to mention who that rider will be.

Oh and while I'm here...does anyone know if they awarded Vino 5th position in the GC? There was some uncertainty at the end of the broadcast Sunday.

[Mr. Wednesday]

The official site at www.letour.com shows Vino in 5th with a 20 second advantage on Leipheimer.

[Mr. Wednesday]

Dola, something interesting I just noted in the young rider standings... Vladimir Karpets is a past winner, but this year he finished over an hour down on Popovych . Although the race for the white jersey was fairly close for first and second (separated by nine minutes), Popo and Kashechkin blew away the rest of the field -- the third place for that jersey was 44 minutes down from Popovych.