MLS has bypassed the NBA as the 3rd most attended sports league in the US

[MrBug708]

Major League Soccer doesn't get the buzz on sports radio or the blogs, but it has corner kicked its way past the NBA in average attendance, according to the news site Examiner.com. MLS attendance has gone up 6.6 percent this season, helping it become the new No. 3 sports league in the United States, based on per-game attendance. An average of 17,870 fans have attended MLS games over the course of the 2011 season -- that's 3.0 percent more than the NBA and 4.1 percent more than the National Hockey League.

Getting The Boot: NBA Loses Its Spot As Third-Best-Attended U.S. Pro Sports League | ThePostGame

[sterlingice]

I'll do the obvious joke of "it's easier to have a larger attendance than 0, right?"

SI

[MizzouRah]

I still don't understand why hockey isn't watched more?

I'd rather watch a good hockey game more than just about any sport except for college football.

Apparently I'm in the minority.

[molson]

Originally Posted by MizzouRah

I still don't understand why hockey isn't watched more?

I'd rather watch a good hockey game more than just about any sport except for college football.

Apparently I'm in the minority.

I prefer hockey as a sport. But at some point, completely overnight, I seemingly lost track of who plays for who, and what teams are good. It all seemed like random mismatch of teams whose rosters are reshuffled every year, there's no year-to-year storylines or consistency...I know that's not literally true in any way, but for some reason I can pay minimal attention to the NBA, MLB, and still pretty much always know what's going on, where with the NHL I'd have to subscribe to the Hockey News and read it religiously to have a clue.

Which has nothing to do with this thread, but whatever, leave me alone, I just woke up and there's snow on 11/5 in Boise.

[Lathum]

The Sounders are a big part of that, they average over 30K a game, either way, good for the MLS. They have a good business model and stick to it. The NBA owners have no one to blame but themselves. And we all know such a big chunk comes from TV money. When the MLS starts getting TV deals like the NBA that will be news.

As for hockey, it is hard to watch on TV and expensive to go to a game, not a great combination.

[Chubby]

Originally Posted by HiFiRevival

The hockey numbers are hurt badly by having teams in places they have no business being. Most of the quality franchises have excellent attendance and actually average more than their NBA counterparts. It's just places like Florida and Phoenix that drag down the average.

also most arenas capacity is 17-19k which makes it kinda tough to hit 18K average

[Matthean]

Hockey is also one sport that is vastly improved when you see it live. Basketball, even live, can be not all that exciting to watch. I watch NBA games where there's little crowd and what crowd there is tends to be about as loud as a library.

[kcchief19]

Here's the key stat: the MLS has an average ticket price half the NBA and the NHL prices and fewer than half as many home games.

Double the ticket price and double the home games and get back to us.

[Buccaneer]

Originally Posted by MizzouRah

I still don't understand why hockey isn't watched more?

I'd rather watch a good hockey game more than just about any sport except for college football.

Apparently I'm in the minority.

A good hockey game is cool to watch but most NHL games are not. The many stupid fights degrade the watchability tremendously, imo. It's like the imbeciles that only watch car racing just to see crashes. Baseball, football and soccer are not like that and thus, greater appeal, imo. As far as NBA > NHL, I think market has a lot to do with it, as HiFi said. While I can't understand the appeal of NBA, I can believe that the great appeal of NCAA hoops can spill over to the NBA.

[britrock88]

Originally Posted by Chubby

also most arenas capacity is 17-19k which makes it kinda tough to hit 18K average

Thank you.

[MrBug708]

I would imagine most of the same people posting and defend hockey are the same ones that troll the World Cup thread and tell us how bad soccer sucks

[larrymcg421]

Hi, my name is TV. Meet my friend Ratings. Hello MLS. I don't believe we've met yet.

[Chubby]

Originally Posted by Buccaneer

A good hockey game is cool to watch but most NHL games are not. The many stupid fights degrade the watchability tremendously, imo. It's like the imbeciles that only watch car racing just to see crashes. Baseball, football and soccer are not like that and thus, greater appeal, imo. As far as NBA > NHL, I think market has a lot to do with it, as HiFi said. While I can't understand the appeal of NBA, I can believe that the great appeal of NCAA hoops can spill over to the NBA.

I'm guessing the last time you watched an NHL game was in the 80s? Fighting is still there but "many" is not an adjective I'd use to describe them by any means.

Bug - Nah, I enjoy the WC but can't really stomach MLS. Hell, we watched the semis and finals in the delivery room before my son was born (Gold Cup 09? US had huge upset win in semis, took lead against Mexico in finals then pissed it away)

[bronconick]

Such an odd metric to claim 3rd. The crazy thing is that if it were to catch even the NHL in yearly revenue, it would be something like the 3rd or 4th richest soccer league in the world. Pass the NBA, and only the EPL would be making more money, IIRC.

[DaddyTorgo]

Originally Posted by bronconick

Such an odd metric to claim 3rd. The crazy thing is that if it were to catch even the NHL in yearly revenue, it would be something like the 3rd or 4th richest soccer league in the world. Pass the NBA, and only the EPL would be making more money, IIRC.

Love the stat. Fuck the haters.

/still would love to see the level of play continue to improve so the games are more attractive to watch

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by HiFiRevival

And yet the numbers were enough that NBC Sports/Versus took the plunge and signed MLS to a fairly lucrative deal.

That's NBC/Versus, which also signed a long term deal with Professional Bull Riding (which I like fairly well but readily acknowledge the ratings challenge for).

[sabotai]

Originally Posted by Chubby

also most arenas capacity is 17-19k which makes it kinda tough to hit 18K average

This. I looked at the attendances awhile back, and since an NBA court is smaller than an NHL rink, and they play in the (mostly) same buildings, it's virtually impossible for the NHL to pass NBA in terms of overall attendance. Then you look at soccer and they play in outdoor stadiums that have well above the capacity of an arena and it becomes almost an apples-to-oranges comparison. Many NHL and NBA teams sell out every game and would probably have no problem selling out an arena that would have a few thousand more seats, but an indoor arena can only get so big.

[kcchief19]

According to the Sports Business Daily, the M.L.S./NBC deal is worth $10 million a year.

NHL, NBC/Versus Ink 10-Year, $2 Billion National TV Rights Contract

I think the NHL has scoreboard on this one.

[mckerney]

Originally Posted by kcchief19

Here's the key stat: the MLS has an average ticket price half the NBA and the NHL prices and fewer than half as many home games.

Double the ticket price and double the home games and get back to us.

Yeah, having higher average per game attendance is nice, but I wouldn't call it the 3rd most attended league in the US. MLS has 16 teams playing 30 games a year, NBA has 30 teams playing 82 games a year. By the numbers given the NBA had 21,340,500 in paid attendance for last season while MLS had 4,288,800.

[kcchief19]

Originally Posted by HiFiRevival

And yet the numbers were enough that NBC Sports/Versus took the plunge and signed MLS to a fairly lucrative deal. Soccer is here, MLS is not going away, and once someone figures out how to count the bar crowd into ratings things will look better for MLS.

This exact sentence has been uttered repeatedly for 50 years. The ESPN documentary on the NY Cosmos was classic, with the line from Howard Cossell from the 1970s saying soccer was going to be the biggest sport in the country in a decade.

I don't get why it's so important to soccer fans that everybody love their sport. It doesn't matter if it's the 4th favorite or 10th favorite sport in the country if you love it. For every stat you come up with proving soccer is on par with the big four, I can show you three stats to prove it's not. Only 2-3 teams are profitable, the league has lost over a half million dollars since its start, and is barely breaking even now ... and is probably still under water given the spending on new soccer-specific stadiums in the last few years so that MLS teams could get into 20,000-seat stadiums and out of 60,000-seat football stadiums they couldn't fill.

Bottom line ... who cares? I have nothing against soccer, other than all the people trying to convince me soccer is the most awesome thing in the world.

[kcchief19]

Originally Posted by mckerney

Yeah, having higher average per game attendance is nice, but I wouldn't call it the 3rd most attended league in the US. MLS has 16 teams playing 30 games a year, NBA has 30 teams playing 82 games a year. By the numbers given the NBA had 21,340,500 in paid attendance for last season while MLS had 4,288,800.

Or consider this ... the Seattle Sounders drew 654,000 fans this year.

The Lehigh Valley Iron Pigs (AAA team of the Philadelphia Phillies) drew 628,000 fans this year.

27 minor league baseball teams drew more fans the the LA Galaxy this year, the MLS's second team in attendance.

[MizzouRah]

Originally Posted by HiFiRevival

The hockey numbers are hurt badly by having teams in places they have no business being. Most of the quality franchises have excellent attendance and actually average more than their NBA counterparts. It's just places like Florida and Phoenix that drag down the average.

True...

Also, I forgot hockey arenas do not seat as many.

[RPI-Fan]

Originally Posted by HiFiRevival

The hockey numbers are hurt badly by having teams in places they have no business being. Most of the quality franchises have excellent attendance and actually average more than their NBA counterparts. It's just places like Florida and Phoenix that drag down the average.

To be fair, I think the median capacity in MLS is not that much different than for hockey. In particular, San Jose has a ridiculously low capacity (and their new stadium is 2 years away at a minimum). Honestly I'm not even sure why San Jose still has a franchise given their stadium mess.

[Ksyrup]

Originally Posted by molson

I prefer hockey as a sport. But at some point, completely overnight, I seemingly lost track of who plays for who, and what teams are good. It all seemed like random mismatch of teams whose rosters are reshuffled every year, there's no year-to-year storylines or consistency...I know that's not literally true in any way, but for some reason I can spend pay minimal attention to the NBA, MLB, and still pretty much always know what's going on, where with the NHL I'd have to subscribe to the Hockey News and read it religiously to have a clue.

Which has nothing to do with this thread, but whatever, leave me alone, I just woke up and there's snow on 11/5 in Boise.

I agree with this. It probably sounds cliche, but I lost interest in the NHL after the strike/lockout. Not because I was upset with the players/owners, but simply because the game was off my radar for 18 months. Since then, it's just become a jumble of weird names and familiar names jumbled around on different teams. I have no clue what goes on in the league anymore, and it feels like I have to work to find any information. Not having a game on ESPN once or twice a week doesn't help, either.

[RainMaker]

I've been meaning to go to a Chicago Fire game for awhile now. I guess I just feel like I'll be out of place there as I don't know the sport all that well and don't follow the team much. I know a few of the players, but that's about it.

[Marc Vaughan]

Originally Posted by DaddyTorgo

Love the stat. Fuck the haters.

/still would love to see the level of play continue to improve so the games are more attractive to watch

I'm sure the level of play will continue to improve; but I'd argue the MLS is very enjoyable as it is - tactically a little niave at times ... but that can often make for more exciting games imho

[RomaGoth]

Originally Posted by MizzouRah

I still don't understand why hockey isn't watched more?

I'd rather watch a good hockey game more than just about any sport except for college football.

Apparently I'm in the minority.

I actually prefer hockey in person, and it is close between football and hockey on tv with a slight not to football.

The reasons are about the same as to why hockey and soccer are not more popular in the US: most fans here want immediate, quick action and the attention span of a fan here is but a blip on the radar. In order to enjoy hockey and soccer, one must actually learn the rules and develop a solid understanding of the who/what/why/when for the game. Most people, sadly, don't bother with it.

[JAG]

Originally Posted by RainMaker

I've been meaning to go to a Chicago Fire game for awhile now. I guess I just feel like I'll be out of place there as I don't know the sport all that well and don't follow the team much. I know a few of the players, but that's about it.

I started going to Fire games midway through their opening season and then got season tickets the following year (can't recall if I did the year after, but I kept going to a number of home games until they ended up in Naperville for a year during the Soldier Field construction). Sitting (or rather standing) in their supporter section (Barnburners, not sure if that's still their name) doing all the crazy stuff was by far and away the best live sporting experiences I've ever had. My wife and I don't even really follow the team anymore and we still sometimes break out into Fire chants.

[cuervo72]

Have to admit, the chants are one reason I can't see ever getting into soccer. Can't say exactly what it is about them, but they make me uncomfortable.

(don't really like them seeping into baseball and college football, either)

[RomaGoth]

Originally Posted by cuervo72

Have to admit, the chants are one reason I can't see ever getting into soccer. Can't say exactly what it is about them, but they make me uncomfortable.

(don't really like them seeping into baseball and college football, either)

I think it is because when you hear those chants, you know a brawl and at least one shooting is coming.

[Lathum]

Originally Posted by HiFiRevival

once someone figures out how to count the bar crowd into ratings things will look better for MLS.

This comment makes no sense to me. I can say with almost 100% certainty I have spent more time in bars than just about any on this board, and I have never once had anyone ask me to put a soccer game on the TV.

Lakers-Mavs, yeah, people ask for that to be put on.

[ISiddiqui]

Originally Posted by kcchief19

I don't get why it's so important to soccer fans that everybody love their sport. It doesn't matter if it's the 4th favorite or 10th favorite sport in the country if you love it. For every stat you come up with proving soccer is on par with the big four, I can show you three stats to prove it's not. Only 2-3 teams are profitable, the league has lost over a half million dollars since its start, and is barely breaking even now ... and is probably still under water given the spending on new soccer-specific stadiums in the last few years so that MLS teams could get into 20,000-seat stadiums and out of 60,000-seat football stadiums they couldn't fill.

Bottom line ... who cares? I have nothing against soccer, other than all the people trying to convince me soccer is the most awesome thing in the world.

It's mostly a reaction. When you have so many people slamming soccer, calling it boring and a girly sport, etc, etc, etc, it is only natural for soccer fans to be overly defensive of the sport and to go crazy over small victories!

[fortheglory]

Maybe it's the popularity of Football Manager

[Lathum]

Originally Posted by HiFiRevival

There are multiple soccer bars in DC and more than one shows MLS games as much as anything else. There are 9 "official" DC United bars in the city and you can usually find people watching other MLS games there whenever one is on.

It's certainly not the same as the huge crowds they'll pack in for certain UEFA, World Cup, and Premiership games, but I've been surprised at the size of crowds who show up and watch something like Seattle-Chicago on a weeknight.

We have them is Seattle as well, probably more given the popularity of it here, but I doubt it is enough to make any kind of dent. And there are tons more people out there in bars that aren't soccer bars watching basketball.

[MacroGuru]

Originally Posted by Lathum

This comment makes no sense to me. I can say with almost 100% certainty I have spent more time in bars than just about any on this board, and I have never once had anyone ask me to put a soccer game on the TV.

Lakers-Mavs, yeah, people ask for that to be put on.

It does to me because in my travels over the past couple of years we were following Real Salt Lake and would look up soccer friendly bars and we would hit some that would have a couple of hundred fans in there watching to some that had maybe 20..It's a growing trend....

[SirFozzie]

Also: THE #'s are likely skewed because of a couple big performing new teams (the seattles, the vancouvers, philadelphia etcetera). Let's see if the currently under performing places (like DC and New England) pick up before we crow.

[Lathum]

Originally Posted by MacroGuru

It does to me because in my travels over the past couple of years we were following Real Salt Lake and would look up soccer friendly bars and we would hit some that would have a couple of hundred fans in there watching to some that had maybe 20..It's a growing trend....

IMO means nothing, for every one "soccer" bar you probably have 100 other bars with people who want to watch an NBA game over an MLS game.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by Lathum

IMO means nothing, for every one "soccer" bar you probably have 100 other bars with people who want to watch an NBA game over an MLS game.

Or re-runs of WSOP coverage for that matter.

Snipped from a NY Post article in early October Including World Football Challenge matches against MLS teams, league clubs averaged 324,000 viewers this season on ESPN and ESPN2 combined, up from their 279,000 last year.


That's about half the number of viewers that Fox Sports gets for their WPT coverage to put it into some perspective.

[MrBug708]

It's great to see some much inspired hate...lol

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by HiFiRevival

something as innocuous as soccer.

Methinks you assume too much.

[bronconick]

Originally Posted by HiFiRevival

Once again, why the need to shit all over something without reason? There's a good professional soccer league whose average attendance has grown steadily from 13,756 in 2000 to 17,869 in 2011. There are people that are happy to see that the league is not only turning a profit, but solidifying itself enough to be considered legitimately here to stay.

It amazes me that people have this absurd need to attack something as innocuous as soccer.

You're getting this reaction because you implied that if Nielsen could report bar watching numbers, it would somehow be a greater bonus to MLS and soccer than any other sport. That goes against all the anecdotal evidence, which is really the only kind of evidence that matters until Nielsen actually *does* start counting it.