Is Don Imus/Rutgers basketball the best the US media can do these days?

[Leonidas]

Sitting here in England I gotta say this whole Don Imus/Rutgers basketball team really looks silly. OK, he should get spanked as it was a really dumb thing to say. And he gets to face Al Sharpton for it (punishment in itself) and gets rightfully suspended. Now they are dragging out the ladies on the basketball team and want to hold some kind of meeting with him? Geeze, let's just milk the latest pop culture gaffe du'jour way beyond the shelf life it actually deserves. Aren't there a war and a presidential campaign to cover?

[Greyroofoo]

I bet after the team press conference some of the girls went home and listened to rap lyrics that are much more offensive than what the guy said.

[PSUColonel]

any racism story involving hypersensitivity seems to be the topic du Jour with the media these days. Although I must admit I am surprised the media hasn't been carrying the water for Imus.

[cmp]

I just find this whole thing ridiculously stupid.

[lordscarlet]

Originally Posted by Greyroofoo

I bet after the team press conference some of the girls went home and listened to rap lyrics that are much more offensive than what the guy said.

I don't agree with the excessive media coverage, but are you saying that Don Imus making racist remarks is acceptable?

[albionmoonlight]

"We just hope to come to some type of understanding of what the remarks really entailed, his reasons why they were said," Essence Carson said at a news conference. "And we'd just like to express our great hurt, the sadness that he has brought to us."

Just. If you "just" want to do these things, then why are you on the front page of cnn.com holding a microphone? I think that you want publicity.

A shock jock said something stupid and insensitive. He apologized. And a real apology--not one of those "I'm sorry that you all are so stupid" apologies. And he got suspended.

So I really wonder why this needs to be alive. You need to tell him that calling you a nappy headed ho hurt your feelings? Why? Of course it hurt your feelings. It was an over-the-line insult.

You need to understand why he said these things? He told you already. They were a mistake. He's human, and he makes them.

I get the sense that people are upset that he apologized before they had a chance to get in front of a camera, express outrage, and demand an apology.

[molson]

Originally Posted by lordscarlet

I don't agree with the excessive media coverage, but are you saying that Don Imus making racist remarks is acceptable?

He was clumsy the way he said it, but the joke, by itself (that the Tennesse players were hot, and that the Rutgers players were more ghetto), isn't something that neccessarily needs to grind our country to a halt.

[Klinglerware]

What I don't get is why Imus is still trying to be funny, given the format of his show.

It does seem that it is counter-productive to his current formula (cozying up to the beltway and media elite) by continuing to do (half-heartedly) the low-brow bits from his earlier schtick from his shock-jock phase.

[lordscarlet]

Originally Posted by molson

He was clumsy the way he said it, but the joke, by itself (that the Tennesse players were hot, and that the Rutgers players were more ghetto), isn't something that neccessarily needs to grind our country to a halt.

I don't actually know what he said, seeing as how I'm annoyed by the hype like everyone else. I opened one article yesterday and it didn't tell me what he actually said and I was done with it.

Personally, I'm happy to see Imus under hot water.

[Klinglerware]

It also looks like Sid Rosenberg was involved in this incident. Will Imus ever learn?

[molson]

Originally Posted by albionmoonlight

I get the sense that people are upset that he apologized before they had a chance to get in front of a camera, express outrage, and demand an apology.

I think that's part of it. Also, Sharpton & Co. require an incident like this every few months to justify their own relevance. How long has it been since Michael Richards? It was just a matter of time.

I hear jokes like this all the time, everywhere, on Howard Stern and SNL and The Daily Show. Sterotypes are funny. Imus is kind of a creepy old man, so it's not clear whether he means it with humor or not.

By all accounts, Imus is a horrible human being, so I won't lose slepp over whatever happens to him, but honestly, who the hell cares.

[lordscarlet]

Originally Posted by molson

I hear jokes like this all the time, everywhere, on Howard Stern and SNL and The Daily Show. Sterotypes are funny. Imus is kind of a creepy old man, so it's not clear whether he means it with humor or not.

By all accounts, Imus is a horrible human being, so I won't lose slepp over whatever happens to him, but honestly, who the hell cares.

"

[molson]

There was an SNL sketch on weekend update a few months ago discussing whether Obama was too black to be president, or not black enough to get the black votes. They determined that at this point, he's blacker than Colin Powell, but not quite as black as Bill Clinton.

Why no outrage? Because it was funny? It's a total witch hunt, and Al Sharpton has an incredible power to decide for the rest of us what's offensive.

[wade moore]

Originally Posted by molson

There was an SNL sketch on weekend update a few months ago discussing whether Obama was too black to be president, or not black enough to get the black votes. They determined that at this point, he's blacker than Colin Powell, but not quite as black as Bill Clinton.

Why no outrage? Because it was funny? It's a total witch hunt, and Al Sharpton has an incredible power to decide for the rest of us what's offensive.

The one thing I will say (and I don't feel like digging up the details) is that Imus does have a history of borderline racial slurs throughout his career.

[miami_fan]

Originally Posted by molson

There was an SNL sketch on weekend update a few months ago discussing whether Obama was too black to be president, or not black enough to get the black votes. They determined that at this point, he's blacker than Colin Powell, but not quite as black as Bill Clinton.

Why no outrage? Because it was funny? It's a total witch hunt, and Al Sharpton has an incredible power to decide for the rest of us what's offensive.

I dislke Al Shapton immensely however he is hardly the first not will he be the last that wants to decide what is offensive to the rest of us.

[molson]

Originally Posted by wade moore

The one thing I will say (and I don't feel like digging up the details) is that Imus does have a history of borderline racial slurs throughout his career.

Howard Stern always talks about the time he saw Imus at WNBC bellittling a black secretary, dropping the n-bomb in the process.

So he deserves the crap he's getting, but not necessarily for this one comment.

[wade moore]

Originally Posted by molson

Howard Stern always talks about the time he saw Imus at WNBC bellittling a black secretary, dropping the n-bomb in the process.

So he deserves the crap he's getting, but not necessarily for this one comment.

I think you're probably right. More than anything else I think I'm just surprised that Imus still has a relatively successful career.. not just because of his history with racial comments, but because he's just not good.

[Ksyrup]

I think some people have a hard time understanding the line between making a joke with racial overtones (even one that goes over the line) and being a racist. The two do not necessarily equate.

As far as Imus goes, I've never really heard his show, I just know "of" him. However, he is responsible for calling Parcells a "tapioca-filled condom with a belt," which still cracks me up, so I'll give him the benefit of the doubt on this one.

[wade moore]

Originally Posted by Ksyrup

I think some people have a hard time understanding the line between making a joke with racial overtones (even one that goes over the line) and being a racist. The two do not necessarily equate.

This is why I pointed out the history. Although this comment seems borderline rather than blatantly over the line, his history of repeated comments like this (some clearly over the line, some borderline) certainly make you question the core of his beliefs.

[Ksyrup]

Originally Posted by wade moore

This is why I pointed out the history. Although this comment seems borderline rather than blatantly over the line, his history of repeated comments like this (some clearly over the line, some borderline) certainly make you question the core of his beliefs.

Maybe. Or maybe it's a matter of him knowing how to get cheap laughs out of a particular segment of his audience. Not necessarily condoning it, but it's hard to know the true motivation.

[wade moore]

Originally Posted by Ksyrup

Maybe. Or maybe it's a matter of him knowing how to get cheap laughs out of a particular segment of his audience. Not necessarily condoning it, but it's hard to know the true motivation.

Agreed. Either way it's distasteful imo, but again, I don't think he's very good either so that would just show that this method of entertainment doesn't hit with me as a potential listener.

I'm certainly not saying he is racist, but I'm saying that what he chooses to do for entertainment is not entertaining to me.

[Leonidas]

Imus is a miserable old recovering drug addict (he freely admits this) who does one very good thing in his life with his ranch for terminally ill children. He has made a career out of ill-conceived, flip comments that have been hailed by the political elite in Washington as proof they are not full of their own PC BS because they regularly show up on his show. He is occasionally funny, more times than not miserable.

I doubt he's a racist, more a product of his times. My mother-in-law who is visiting us right now is a good example. She's a left-wing, Bill Clinton/Al Gore voting, card carrying democrat. Yet the other day she managed to offend even me when I took her to our local gas station/convenience store and say on the way to the car, "Wow, they even have Habib at the 7-11 here with an English accent." I was offended as I consider the Pakistani family that runs this store to be my friends who I see and talk to at least once a week. My mother-in-law is not a racist, she is just ill-informed and comes from a generation where this kind of thing was acceptable. She's from the same generation as Imus.

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

Originally Posted by Leonidas

I doubt he's a racist, more a product of his times. My mother-in-law who is visiting us right now is a good example. She's a left-wing, Bill Clinton/Al Gore voting, card carrying democrat. Yet the other day she managed to offend even me when I took her to our local gas station/convenience store and say on the way to the car, "Wow, they even have Habib at the 7-11 here with an English accent." I was offended as I consider the Pakistani family that runs this store to be my friends who I see and talk to at least once a week. My mother-in-law is not a racist, she is just ill-informed and comes from a generation where this kind of thing was acceptable. She's from the same generation as Imus.

I have in-laws that still make comments about how many nig%$$s are on the court during a basketball game. It's stupid, but honestly, there's not much you can do other than tell them not to say it again (which rarely works). I'm proud to say that my generation (I'm around 30) has taken leaps and bounds in regards to race relations. The further we get from the wrongs committed in the past, the better off we are. I hope my newly-born daughter doesn't even think twice about saying these kinds of things about other people simply because they're of a different race.

[miami_fan]

I give Imus as much of the benefit of the doubt for his actions as I do give Al Sharpton for his.

I did say how much I dislike Al Sharpton right?

[lordscarlet]

Originally Posted by Leonidas

She's from the same generation as Imus.

Your mother-in-law was born during the gold rush?

[cmp]

Originally Posted by Mizzou B-ball fan

I have in-laws that still make comments about how many nig%$$s are on the court during a basketball game. It's stupid, but honestly, there's not much you can do other than tell them not to say it again (which rarely works). I'm proud to say that my generation (I'm around 30) has taken leaps and bounds in regards to race relations. The further we get from the wrongs committed in the past, the better off we are. I hope my newly-born daughter doesn't even think twice about saying these kinds of things about other people simply because they're of a different race.

I think you may be surprised how kids still talk though. While people of all races get along very well for the most part in my area, it doesn't mean the name calling has stopped. I hear it more now than ever actually.

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

Originally Posted by gold101

I think you may be surprised how kids still talk though. While people of all races get along very well for the most part in my area, it doesn't mean the name calling has stopped. I hear it more now than ever actually.

It's never going to cease obviously. I'm not suggesting it will. It takes time. But every generation that can come through and create some sort of reduction in racial tension is a good thing. I can honestly say that my friends of my age group do stereotype at some level, but it's nothing like what our parents and grandparents did in the past and even do now.

[Young Drachma]

I do not think that whoever was with those girls, should have had them come out and say anything. I think a simple statement not dignifying such remarks with a reply, would have sufficed. They've got enough to do.

I've read a few thoughtful comments on the matter over the past few days, but...I think this media is full of hypocrites who have nothing better to do than skewer one of their own for a little media coverage.

Imus is an ass and apparently, he has a hobby of doing these sorts of things. It doesn't matter. Because he's not the first, won't be the last and isn't the only one.

I was far more annoyed that there wasn't anyone more credible than Al Sharpton to have a radio show for him to go on and apologize. That's far more of an outrage to me, because I've absolutely had it with people who while still have some use, have far outlived their benefit to anything worthwhile in terms of 'advancing' a cause towards equality and all that business.

[Young Drachma]

Of course, we're still in a day and age where the dominant culture still thinks all black folks look alike. So..perhaps I have too many expectations on both sides of the coin.

And I hate to break this to some folks, but..not all black people listen to hip-hop or rap music.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by Klinglerware

What I don't get is why Imus is still trying to be funny, given the format of his show.

It does seem that it is counter-productive to his current formula (cozying up to the beltway and media elite) by continuing to do (half-heartedly) the low-brow bits from his earlier schtick from his shock-jock phase.

I think that's probably because most/many of his radio audience (not his CNBC audience) still tunes as much for the latter as the former. They've just gotten older through the years & find the newer schtick interesting too.

[Leonidas]

Originally Posted by Dark Cloud

Of course, we're still in a day and age where the dominant culture still thinks all black folks look alike. So..perhaps I have too many expectations on both sides of the coin.

And I hate to break this to some folks, but..not all black people listen to hip-hop or rap music.

We had a black guy on my high school basketball team, Scottie, who loved AC/DC and any other heavy metal we could play. He adopted Back in Black as his personal theme song. The other black kids in school always looked at him kind of funny, but we loved the guy. He was a great character. A young man of his own mind.

And lest we forget, the Godfather of the modern guitar was Jimi Hendrix.

And I'll always remember Wynton Marsalis on the old Roy Firestone Show on ESPN discussing his take on rap music. He said, "Rap is to good music what McDonald's is to a gourmet meal."

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

Originally Posted by Leonidas

And I'll always remember Wynton Marsalis on the old Roy Firestone Show on ESPN discussing his take on rap music. He said, "Rap is to good music what McDonald's is to a gourmet meal."

You can imagine the looks I get when people see me in a convertible playing Public Enemy: Fear of a Black Planet and screaming out the lyrics with Flavor Flav. It's not pretty, but I love it.

[Klinglerware]

Originally Posted by JonInMiddleGA

I think that's probably because most/many of his radio audience (not his CNBC audience) still tunes as much for the latter as the former. They've just gotten older through the years & find the newer schtick interesting too.

I suppose you are right. As someone who listened to him back in the late eighties and early nineties, and tunes in occasionally now--the comedy bits don't work as well for me these days. Obviously he's retooled the show to make it sound less like Stern et al (as recently as 1989 Imus still had women call up and fake orgasms on the air) and to leverage his Clinton-era ascendancy in high-brow circles, but the comedy just doesn't have the same punch as it used to--maybe its his conscious dancing around the line of good taste instead of blowing past it as he might have done 15 years ago that results in unfunny comedy that doesn't really satisfy the old core but manages to offend others.

If he kept it high-brow, I would still enjoy the guest interviews (though I don't care for Imus' self-aggrandizing style). But then again, that's just my personal opinion.

[Subby]

My question to the op would be why are you looking to the media for entertainment?

[Leonidas]

Originally Posted by Mizzou B-ball fan

You can imagine the looks I get when people see me in a convertible playing Public Enemy: Fear of a Black Planet and screaming out the lyrics with Flavor Flav. It's not pretty, but I love it.

I got no problem with it if you enjoy it. Compared to the crap they make now PE is practically Beethoven. I just always found it funny to hear a highly respected, classically trained black musician of the highest degree totally rip on rap.

[spleen1015]

Chris Rock should've said it first. It would have been okay then.

[st.cronin]

Doesn't Imus say stuff like this ALMOST EVERY DAY? What, exactly, was so specially insensitive about this?

[cougarfreak]

Originally Posted by Dark Cloud

Of course, we're still in a day and age where the dominant culture still thinks all black folks look alike. So..perhaps I have too many expectations on both sides of the coin.

And I hate to break this to some folks, but..not all black people listen to hip-hop or rap music.

And a culture that likes to dump all of us "dominant culture folks" into the same boat as thinking all blacks look alike. I know it's a shock to some folks........but I don't.

[JW]

The media covers issues like this in part because it is afraid to cover the real internal issues of poor black communiites. Until the race hucksters like Sharpton and Jackson decide to attack the real issues with the same zeal they show when attacking the likes of Imus, or until other black leaders develop who are willing to attack those issues (What are they? Let's start with the unwed pregnancy rate and single parent family rate.), poor black communities will continue to disintegrate.

As for Imus, I never watch him. But what he said was dreadful, though it is no worse than you'll hear on MTV, BET, or Comedy Central, to name a few, several times a day. I'm sure this will also make a good Southpark show not long from now. It has really become funny how often the phrase "nappy headed ho's" has been repeated on CNN, MSNBC, and Fox News over the last few days.

[Honolulu_Blue]

Originally Posted by Leonidas

Sitting here in England I gotta say this whole Don Imus/Rutgers basketball team really looks silly. OK, he should get spanked as it was a really dumb thing to say. And he gets to face Al Sharpton for it (punishment in itself) and gets rightfully suspended. Now they are dragging out the ladies on the basketball team and want to hold some kind of meeting with him? Geeze, let's just milk the latest pop culture gaffe du'jour way beyond the shelf life it actually deserves. Aren't there a war and a presidential campaign to cover?

Well, luckily Anna Nicole's paternity test came back, so that knocked Imus off the front page for at least a few hours.

[BYU 14]

What a clusterfuck listening to Imus stammer his way through the Sharpton "interview" They are both idiots in my book. Imus does have a history of this type of behavior and it is now really to a point where he can no longer justify it. Sharpton has also had his share of foot in Mouth moments (Though he will never admit it) and really has no room to call Imus out...

The whole thing turned into a meaningless debate of two great hypocrites....Just what our Media loves.

[King of New York]

I have never understood the appeal of Imus. I tried listening to his show once--he mumbled for twenty minutes about what type of toast he likes to eat for breakfast. Then he mentioned Arizona a bunch of times. Then back to the toast. Occasionally, random people in the studio would interject comments such as "you really like butter on toast, Imus? Really? Butter? Why not jelly?"

[Easy Mac]

Originally Posted by st.cronin

Doesn't Imus say stuff like this ALMOST EVERY DAY? What, exactly, was so specially insensitive about this?

That a large percentage of whites think its true, but they hate themselves for thinking that, so they (including the white media) act outraged so people will think they feel the complete opposite. Its like the preachers who speak out vehemently against homosexuality while having a male prostitute on the side.

[Glengoyne]

I'll admit. I read the bit in an article talking about his comments. I just skimmed around the article to find his quote. In doing so I completely missed the racism element. I just thought that it was madly inappropriate to call a women's basketball team a bunch of Hos, nappy headed or otherwise.

Later when I read the bit about Sharpton and the fact that the players are largely/all black, I understood suddenly just how big a faux pas he had made.

[Glengoyne]

Oh I forgot I was looking to see what exactly he had said, cause I was betting it was a lesbian comment. Something akin to the "Go out there and lick'em tonight" jokes of late.

[cuervo72]

The thing I find most interesting about this is that the media/activists (well, and the team's coach) are acting as though this was such a horrible thing for the women - ruins their time in the sun of the tourney, sullys their reputations, etc. Compare this to when the Duke lax allegations were shown to be false. *Much* more damaging to those involved, yet I don't recall as big a deal being made when the charges were dropped (certainly not as big a deal as when the charges were levied).

[14ers]

Originally Posted by st.cronin

Doesn't Imus say stuff like this ALMOST EVERY DAY? What, exactly, was so specially insensitive about this?

This was my first reaction after hearing Imus's comment; "Nappy Haired HO's". I was expecting a repeat of Cosmo Kramers "Nigger" comment from all the media reporting.

Are people more pissed at him calling those college girls HO's, or does it have something to do with his Haircut comment?

And, what was said in the background right before Imus's comment?

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by cuervo72

... sullys their reputations, etc.

Downright amusing that anyone would play that particular card since if it weren't for good ol' Al the number of people who heard the comment would have been a small fraction of those who know about it now.

[st.cronin]

I guess actually my question is, why single him out on that particular day. I've heard far more insensitive stuff every time I've listened to his show.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by st.cronin

I guess actually my question is, why single him out on that particular day. I've heard far more insensitive stuff every time I've listened to his show.

Because Sharpton decided he needed some attention, same reason he does pretty much everything.

Meanwhile, here's a link to an incomplete transcript of the exchange
http://mediamatters.org/items/200704040011
I was curious because I didn't remember the part that has gotten all the attention as being quite as random as it seems out of the original context.

Also, after reviewing the team photos that go with the Rutgers roster, I was a little concerned that Imus didn't know what the word "nappy" means. Best I can tell from some Googling, it's usually defined as being tightly curled hair that's dirty. Nearly every picture of the Rutgers players features straightened hair (albeit with a couple of questionable hairdos).

But then I look at the game photos on both the Rutgers & UT websites. You can look yourself & make your own call. I think it's pretty safe to say that a lot of players weren't exactly looking ready for a magazine cover. Now I'm very cool with that, they're out there to play ball not play dress up & headbands usually aren't a good fashion statement for anybody. But that was the context of the discussion, pretty much about the looks/image given off by the players. Shallow though that might be, that was where the conversation was focused. And that seems a lot more sexist than racist to me.

If the 2 Live Stews make the same crack, there's not a discussion about "nappy". They might have caught heat for "ho's" & I'm a little surprised that hasn't been the word that's gotten the attention.