RIAA loses suit to make mother pay for 13 year old's file sharing..

SirFozzie · 09-26-2005, 06:54 PM

http://www.theinquirer.net/?article=26460

THE RECORDING Industry Association of America (RIAA) has lost a key case where it attempted to sue a mother over her 13-year old child's file sharing abilities.

According to CD Freaks, the case was overturned in a federal court in Michigan with prejudice. That means the RIAA case is lost.

The RIAA was forced to withdraw its case because it held the mother couldn't be held to be liable for letting her daughter share music online.

The case was brought by Priority Records on behalf of Elektra Motowwn Records, Warner Bros, Sony Music, UMG Recordings and Arista.

The funny thing is that RIAA came in, assuming that the woman would settle like all the other folks so far, she told em no.. they tried to pressure her at the opening hearing, telling her that it would be much cheaper just to work with the "Settlement Center" (ie, extortion house)..

The Judge was not amused by their actions and told the lawyer (who figured just to extend it till the mother agreed to pay due to legal bills).. she now goes through YOU, nobody else. No Settlement Center.

And now this.

DaddyTorgo · 09-26-2005, 06:56 PM

yessss!!! VICTORY OVER THE HEATHENS AT LONG LAST!!! I SHALL HAVE MY VENGENCE!!

SirFozzie · 09-26-2005, 06:57 PM

Judge smacking around the RIAA in initial court appearance

SirFozzie · 09-26-2005, 07:04 PM

Love this part (Sorry about the line #'s, got this from the .txt file above)

20 THE COURT: I'm in no hurry to see this case resolved.
21 So far, Mrs. Santangelo has raised enough issues, including the
22 use of a screen name or an account name -- not hers, but some
23 other person's -- that suggests that she might have some really
24 interesting defenses to this. And there are defenses that
25 maybe even ought to be litigated. The whole concept of a young
1 person using the parent's computer access is bad enough, but if
2 this name is not hers, she doesn't pay for this account.
3 MR. MASCHIO: They wouldn't have brought the action,
4 your Honor, if they hadn't verified that very carefully.
5 THE COURT: Well, we'll see, won't we? We'll see.
6 And if what she's telling me is wrong, I won't be very happy
7 with her.
8 So let's set another conference date for July 8th at,
9 say, 10 a.m. And hopefully you will have an attorney by then.
10 And if you get an attorney, you need to put the attorney in
11 touch with Mr. Maschio, and maybe you will get this thing
12 resolved.
13 MS. SANTANGELO: Mr. Maschio's --
14 THE COURT: He will give you his business card.
15 MS. SANTANGELO: There is more than one group here.
16 MR. MASCHIO: I'll give her my card, but our
17 instructions are for these people to deal with the conference
18 settlement center. They had discussions.
19 THE COURT: I'm sorry. Your instructions from me, the
20 Judge --
21 MR. MASCHIO: Okay.
22 THE COURT: -- are that, if she appears with a lawyer,
23 her lawyer will deal with you.
24 MR. MASCHIO: Oh, absolutely, your Honor.
25 THE COURT: Otherwise, you take your action and you
1 file it in front of an arbitrator.
2 MR. MASCHIO: No, all I was suggesting, your Honor, is
3 that, if she doesn't come with an attorney, that the more
4 direct way of doing this -- and this is just to facilitate
5 things -- is to deal directly with the conference center.
6 THE COURT: Not once you've filed an action in my
7 court.
8 MR. MASCHIO: Okay.
9 THE COURT: You file an action in my court, your
10 conference center is out of it. They have nothing to do with
11 anything.
12 MR. MASCHIO: Okay. I'll give her my card.
13 THE COURT: If you are here, you are here as an
14 officer of the court. You're taking up my time and cluttering
15 up my calendar, so you will do it in the context of the Court.
16 Maybe it will be with a magistrate judge, but you will be
17 representing your client, not some conference center. And if
18 your people want things to be done through the conference
19 center, tell them not to bring lawsuits.

JonInMiddleGA · 09-26-2005, 07:07 PM

Just another example of why I have a decreasing amount of faith in the court system & why I'm becoming more & more certain that it needs a serious overhaul.

SirFozzie · 09-26-2005, 07:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JonInMiddleGA

Just another example of why I have a decreasing amount of faith in the court system & why I'm becoming more & more certain that it needs a serious overhaul.

Yup, because some folks want to use it as an extortion tool, right Jon? (Sarcasm I know)

(yeah, I know, we're back to that divide on this issue, but HA! it's good to see a judge deliver a legal smackdown like this. Couldn't have happened to a nicer bunch of assholes)

JonInMiddleGA · 09-26-2005, 07:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SirFozzie

(yeah, I know, we're back to that divide on this issue, but HA! it's good to see a judge deliver a legal smackdown like this. Couldn't have happened to a nicer bunch of assholes)

Sorry Fozzie, the only assholes I see in the story a miserable 13 y/o thief/accessory to theft, a mother who clearly hasn't taught her child right from wrong, and a judge who did his best to let them get away with it. If all 3 died tomorrow, the world would be a better place.

Greyroofoo · 09-26-2005, 07:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JonInMiddleGA

Sorry Fozzie, the only assholes I see in the story a miserable 13 y/o thief/accessory to theft, a mother who clearly hasn't taught her child right from wrong, and a judge who did his best to let them get away with it. If all 3 died tomorrow, the world would be a better place.

word!

SirFozzie · 09-26-2005, 07:22 PM

And there we go, after about a year of pretty much agreeing on most issues, we're back to this, Just like the old days Jon.

This is a huge kick in the jimmies for the RIAA. Their big plan was to sue all the parents into trying to hover over the kids 24/7, just in case they downloaded a song. Thy threaten 150K a song (as if..), and extort as much as they can out of the family, and then move on to the next one.

But even though they still can sue the kid (and if they should or not, hey, that's their decision), don't know if they will.

A) They'd look even further like the mafia-like thugs they are with 2,000 lawsuits against minors

B) Guess what.. kids ain't got no money. Oh well, can't extort it from the big pocketbooks of the folks no more.

The judge had it right. Don't use our already overburdened court system as an extortion system. If you're going to sue.. deal with lawyers. Don't say. "Our lawyers will crush you.. but you can pay us now" and refer them to the "Settlement" Center instead of dealing with lawyers.

SirFozzie · 09-26-2005, 07:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Greyroofoo

word!

If by "word" means completely overreacting, and making an ass out of yourself, then word indeed.

BrianD · 09-26-2005, 07:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JonInMiddleGA

Sorry Fozzie, the only assholes I see in the story a miserable 13 y/o thief/accessory to theft, a mother who clearly hasn't taught her child right from wrong, and a judge who did his best to let them get away with it. If all 3 died tomorrow, the world would be a better place.

A judge who refused to let his court be used for extortion and insists it only be used for legal purposes. Yes, that is pretty terrible.

sovereignstar · 09-26-2005, 07:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SirFozzie

If by "word" means completely overreacting, and making an ass out of yourself, then word indeed.

Or perhaps "word" means Jon needs to be gang-raped by the Tech football team until he dies of internal bleeding.

Tekneek · 09-26-2005, 07:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JonInMiddleGA

Sorry Fozzie, the only assholes I see in the story a miserable 13 y/o thief/accessory to theft, a mother who clearly hasn't taught her child right from wrong, and a judge who did his best to let them get away with it. If all 3 died tomorrow, the world would be a better place.

When the judicial system doesn't agree with you, just wish them all dead.

SirFozzie · 09-26-2005, 07:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sovereignstar

Or perhaps "word" means Jon needs to be gang-raped by the Tech football team until he dies of internal bleeding.

Dude, NOT cool. Mock the views if you want. Don't go to that level.

Really not cool.

DaddyTorgo · 09-26-2005, 07:31 PM

aaaah, i sense a SD-boxination coming for Sov.

BrianD · 09-26-2005, 07:34 PM

When you see someone wish death on three people, it is hard to not have a strong reaction.

DaddyTorgo · 09-26-2005, 07:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BrianD

When you see someone wish death on three people, it is hard to not have a strong reaction.

ah true true. i had overlooked that a bit. in that sense, sov's comments weren't so bad. Can I get a dual-boxination?

BrianD · 09-26-2005, 07:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DaddyTorgo

ah true true. i had overlooked that a bit. in that sense, sov's comments weren't so bad. Can I get a dual-boxination?

Well, I'm not saying Sov's comment was right....but I understand it.

JonInMiddleGA · 09-26-2005, 07:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SirFozzie

If by "word" means completely overreacting, and making an ass out of yourself, then word indeed.

Actually Fozzie, I'm completely serious.

I'm sick beyond words of watching thieves get away with it, and I harbor them nothing but ill will at this point. $150k isn't enough IMO, these acts of theft should come with jail time, including 3 strikes provisions that puts removes these theiving little pieces of vermin out of circulation permanently if neccessary. And if parents aren't willing to control their children's criminal behavior, then they don't belong on the streets either.

But hey, maybe you're right, maybe lawlessness IS the way to go. Maybe the RIAA finds some very talented & highly motivated "persuaders" to "encourage" people to quit stealing from them.

Raiders Army · 09-26-2005, 07:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BrianD

When you see someone wish death on three people, it is hard to not have a strong reaction.

Technically he didn't wish death upon them. He just said the world would be a better place without them around.

Personally, I think the judge made a good call.

DaddyTorgo · 09-26-2005, 07:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JonInMiddleGA

Actually Fozzie, I'm completely serious.

I'm sick beyond words of watching thieves get away with it, and I harbor them nothing but ill will at this point. $150k isn't enough IMO, these acts of theft should come with jail time, including 3 strikes provisions that puts removes these theiving little pieces of vermin out of circulation permanently if neccessary. And if parents aren't willing to control their children's criminal behavior, then they don't belong on the streets either.

But hey, maybe you're right, maybe lawlessness IS the way to go. Maybe the RIAA finds some very talented & highly motivated "persuaders" to "encourage" people to quit stealing from them.

the issue i have with the RIAA in these cases is that the punishment FAR outweighs the crime, even financially. the 150k/song figure is RIDICULOUS. there is no logical way they could come up with that figure. so in that sense i would rather see zero penalty then one that is that ridiculous

BrianD · 09-26-2005, 07:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JonInMiddleGA

Actually Fozzie, I'm completely serious.

But hey, maybe you're right, maybe lawlessness IS the way to go. Maybe the RIAA finds some very talented & highly motivated "persuaders" to "encourage" people to quit stealing from them.

The RIAA has a legal recourse, but they are afraid to use it in case a bad precedent is set. They much prefer to use their current crop of highly motivated "persuaders" to try to bully folks.

Flasch186 · 09-26-2005, 08:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JonInMiddleGA

Actually Fozzie, I'm completely serious.

I'm sick beyond words of watching thieves get away with it, and I harbor them nothing but ill will at this point. $150k isn't enough IMO, these acts of theft should come with jail time, including 3 strikes provisions that puts removes these theiving little pieces of vermin out of circulation permanently if neccessary. And if parents aren't willing to control their children's criminal behavior, then they don't belong on the streets either.

But hey, maybe you're right, maybe lawlessness IS the way to go. Maybe the RIAA finds some very talented & highly motivated "persuaders" to "encourage" people to quit stealing from them.

Im sure you'll agree though that the RIAA doesn't behave appropriately on theyre way to court. If I called you up tomorrow and said, "Jon, I saw on the message board you wished death on XYZ, and in my opinion it is you threatening them. BUT if you simply want to send me a check for 50k I'll forget about it." You'd agree the behaviour is reprehensible. Sure theft is bad but extortion is too. Right?

MacroGuru · 09-26-2005, 08:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JonInMiddleGA

Actually Fozzie, I'm completely serious.

I'm sick beyond words of watching thieves get away with it, and I harbor them nothing but ill will at this point. $150k isn't enough IMO, these acts of theft should come with jail time, including 3 strikes provisions that puts removes these theiving little pieces of vermin out of circulation permanently if neccessary. And if parents aren't willing to control their children's criminal behavior, then they don't belong on the streets either.

But hey, maybe you're right, maybe lawlessness IS the way to go. Maybe the RIAA finds some very talented & highly motivated "persuaders" to "encourage" people to quit stealing from them.

Real quick question for you....back when casette tapes were the rage....did you perhaps, record something from the radio, even for yourself.....what about copy said song for your friends? Make that slow mix from the radio you liked for your dates?

How about ever sneak a taste of candy from the bulk bins?

Just curious here....

DaddyTorgo · 09-26-2005, 08:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by indoorsoccersim

Real quick question for you....back when casette tapes were the rage....did you perhaps, record something from the radio, even for yourself.....what about copy said song for your friends? Make that slow mix from the radio you liked for your dates?

How about ever sneak a taste of candy from the bulk bins?

Just curious here....

i'm sure the answer you'll get is "nope. never." because JiMG is rightous, and perfect and has never done a single thing wrong in his life. Never even does a rolling-stop at a stop-sign on a deserted road.

*sarcasm off*

not that i'm biblical at all, but...LET HE WHO IS WITHOUT SIN CAST THE FIRST STONE

sabotai · 09-26-2005, 08:32 PM

What'd I give to have a private detective follow Jon around and see what lawlessness he's up to without even thinking about it. Speeding? Littering (with all the smoking you do, some of them must find their way to the sidewalk/street

)?. I mean, you're the one who says the world is black and white. Lawlessness is lawlessness, right?

sterlingice · 09-26-2005, 08:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SirFozzie

B) Guess what.. kids ain't got no money. Oh well, can't extort it from the big pocketbooks of the folks no more.

"Poor people have no money. Might as well let them steal stuff".

SI

MrBigglesworth · 09-26-2005, 08:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by indoorsoccersim

Real quick question for you....back when casette tapes were the rage....did you perhaps, record something from the radio, even for yourself.....what about copy said song for your friends? Make that slow mix from the radio you liked for your dates?

How about ever sneak a taste of candy from the bulk bins?

Just curious here....

...or record a show on VHS? Or channel surf while your favorite show was on commercial?

Someone once said that an alcoholic is defined by most people as "anyone that drinks more than me". It appears that JIMG's definition of a criminal that should be executed is "anyone that steals more than me".

But the real issue is that intellectual property is much different from real property. Someone takes a song off the internets, that doesn't preclude someone else from owning it or listening to it. In fact, there is a greater benefit to society the more people that are able to listen to it, which just isn't the case with real property.

SirFozzie · 09-26-2005, 08:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JonInMiddleGA

Actually Fozzie, I'm completely serious.

I'm sick beyond words of watching thieves get away with it, and I harbor them nothing but ill will at this point. $150k isn't enough IMO, these acts of theft should come with jail time, including 3 strikes provisions that puts removes these theiving little pieces of vermin out of circulation permanently if neccessary. And if parents aren't willing to control their children's criminal behavior, then they don't belong on the streets either.

But hey, maybe you're right, maybe lawlessness IS the way to go. Maybe the RIAA finds some very talented & highly motivated "persuaders" to "encourage" people to quit stealing from them.

Bwahahahahahahahahahaa! How you can mouth that stuff with a straight face, Jon, is beyond me.

That's what we need, sure it is alright. Maximum Security lockups for teenagers. Alcatraz for Adolescents! Sing Sing for Secondary Schoolers! Alles in ordnung!

Ladies and gentlemen, for Jon's next gig, he's going to advocate that we burn all libraries to the ground! After all, they loan out books again and again, without paying the author full price for the book each time they loan it to someone new..., or even asking permission of the most holy copyright owners. How completely horrid!

And while we're at it, ban the VCR, and the Tivo! You'll watch our shows when WE want you to, and no time else! If we let Joe Average use a VCR, he'll just tape television shows and *gasp* share it with his friends! They might even.. The HORROR.. FAST FORWARD THROUGH THE COMMERCIALS..

We must protect the god-given holy Copyright and Intellectual Property! God Save our Great Nation. And remember..

Crapshoot · 09-26-2005, 08:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JonInMiddleGA

Actually Fozzie, I'm completely serious.

I'm sick beyond words of watching thieves get away with it, and I harbor them nothing but ill will at this point. $150k isn't enough IMO, these acts of theft should come with jail time, including 3 strikes provisions that puts removes these theiving little pieces of vermin out of circulation permanently if neccessary. And if parents aren't willing to control their children's criminal behavior, then they don't belong on the streets either.

But hey, maybe you're right, maybe lawlessness IS the way to go. Maybe the RIAA finds some very talented & highly motivated "persuaders" to "encourage" people to quit stealing from them.

This is repulsive Jon, even by your standards. A punishment should fit the crime. Respect for property rights is one of the hallmarks of a capitalist society, but you've shown enough selective disregard for the means and acquisition of property (see the Lucent thread) that its more than a little hypocritical.

Anthony · 09-26-2005, 08:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DaddyTorgo

aaaah, i sense a SD-boxination coming for Sov.

this is what you get when sov tries to take a page out of my book.

illinifan999 · 09-26-2005, 08:58 PM

Life in prison for downloading songs, man where do people come up with this stuff?

So I'm guessing you have no problem with someone spending their life in prison for going 4 miles over the speed limit right? It may be a petty crime, but fuck once we put those punks in jail I'll bet the streets are much more safe!

JonInMiddleGA · 09-26-2005, 09:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by indoorsoccersim

Real quick question for you....back when casette tapes were the rage....did you perhaps, record something from the radio, even for yourself.....what about copy said song for your friends? Make that slow mix from the radio you liked for your dates?

How about ever sneak a taste of candy from the bulk bins?

Just curious here....

Nope, although the radio thing is sort of an unfair question -- I knew from an early age that it was illegal to make those tapes because I had an interest in the radio business at a pretty young age (had a on-air guy explain why they weren't supposed to do the whole "will you announce this before you play it so I can tape it" when I was probably 8 or 9 years old.

And no, I never stole candy from the store (again, not quite fair though since I honestly don't recall ever seeing bulk bins until I was an adult or at least late teens.).

Anthony · 09-26-2005, 09:01 PM

i'll give Jon this:

he's very consistent. i hate his views, but i admire his willingness to share his unpopular (and all totally wrong) opinions with the public.

the "let the punishment fit the crime" statement is appropriate in this case - $150K for downloading a song is grossly insane. you don't even get punished that much for stealing an actual cd. a slap on the wrist and community service is more like it.

illinifan999 · 09-26-2005, 09:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JonInMiddleGA

Nope, although the radio thing is sort of an unfair question -- I knew from an early age that it was illegal to make those tapes because I had an interest in the radio business at a pretty young age (had a on-air guy explain why they weren't supposed to do the whole "will you announce this before you play it so I can tape it" when I was probably 8 or 9 years old.

And no, I never stole candy from the store (again, not quite fair though since I honestly don't recall ever seeing bulk bins until I was an adult or at least late teens.).

ever speed, maybe even just 1 mile over the speed limit?

panerd · 09-26-2005, 09:04 PM

I have always wondered why a pedophile has never attempted a similar defense? (Bear with me here, more of a curiosity thing than an evil plan)

"What do you mean you found naked images of 13 year old girls on my computer? They belong to my 11-year old son! He can't look at naked girls that are older than him?"

Anthony · 09-26-2005, 09:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by illinifan999

ever speed, maybe even just 1 mile over the speed limit?

do you really expect an honest answer? jon knows as much as anone else that as soon as he admits to [insert petty, minor infraction here] everyone will jump down his throat with "a HA!!! so you *are* in fact a criminal too!".

JonInMiddleGA · 09-26-2005, 09:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SirFozzie

Bwahahahahahahahahahaa! How you can mouth that stuff with a straight face, Jon, is beyond me.

How you can support thieves with a straight face escapes me too, so I guess we're even. And how you can do it & still look at yourself in a mirror really astonishes me.

I don't separate intellectual property particularly from physical property, as they are both derived from efforts & have rightful owners. And those are indeed things I hold in extremely high regard, I don't intend to apologize for that.

I don't shed a tear when a shopkeeper guns down some thieving p.o.s., if I get a convienient chance I'll even offer to buy him/her a box of ammo to reload with for next time. I really don't see any difference with the sort of thieves mentioned in this article & meant exactly what I said earlier, the world would be better off without them.

If that bothers you (or anybody else), I don't know what to tell you, that's just how it is. I won't lie to make you feel better nor will I sit back & let you post something celebrating these theiving pieces of garbage without making it clear that your attitude is at best offensive & at worst downright nauseating. Nobody around here seems to have a problem calling me out when they disagree with something I say, so I really don't feel much need to sit back & let something that disgusts me so thoroughly go without a reply either.

ISiddiqui · 09-26-2005, 09:13 PM

I thought Jon believed in personal responsibility... why charge the parent for something the kid did? RIAA is only doing it because it fears the PR backlash if it goes against kids directly.

JonInMiddleGA · 09-26-2005, 09:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hell Atlantic

you don't even get punished that much for stealing an actual cd. a slap on the wrist and community service is more like it.

To coin a phrase, two wrongs don't make a right. Inadequate punishment for one doesn't negate the need for at least somewhat adequate punishement for the other.

JonInMiddleGA · 09-26-2005, 09:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ISiddiqui

I thought Jon believed in personal responsibility... why charge the parent for something the kid did? RIAA is only doing it because it fears the PR backlash if it goes against kids directly.

Actually, I believe there's a pretty good history of parents being responsible for the conduct of their children in a legal sense.

ISiddiqui · 09-26-2005, 09:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JonInMiddleGA

Actually, I believe there's a pretty good history of parents being responsible for the conduct of their children in a legal sense.

And what does that have to do with the concept of "PERSONAL responsibility". Since you show such disdain for the law, refering back to it doesn't qualify as an adequate response.

RendeR · 09-26-2005, 09:27 PM

Why do you people continue to attempt to make a real discussion with JiMG? He has proven time and time again that he will not waiver from his pathtically self rightious views on how EVERYONE should live their lives.

Lucky for us we live in America and not say...stalinist russia or some other big-brother society. Yes, we're going that way with this pathetic administration, but we're not dead yet.

Trying to have a logical sane, common SENSE discussion with JiMG is like trying to count the chinese all in a row, by the time you've finished, he's got an entirely new fucked up train of thought going. Its a waste of time.

Danny · 09-26-2005, 09:28 PM

This one time when I was a baby I accidently stole a candy necklace from a grocery store. My mom was grabbing something from a shelf and I must have picked it up and put it around my neck. I then fell asleep in the stroller and we left with the necklace. I cant believe my mom didn't get thrown into prison for 20 years, what is this world coming to!

illinifan999 · 09-26-2005, 09:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by illinifan999

ever speed, maybe even just 1 mile over the speed limit?

DaddyTorgo · 09-26-2005, 09:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RendeR

Why do you people continue to attempt to make a real discussion with JiMG? He has proven time and time again that he will not waiver from his pathtically self rightious views on how EVERYONE should live their lives.

Lucky for us we live in America and not say...stalinist russia or some other big-brother society. Yes, we're going that way with this pathetic administration, but we're not dead yet.

Trying to have a logical sane, common SENSE discussion with JiMG is like trying to count the chinese all in a row, by the time you've finished, he's got an entirely new fucked up train of thought going. Its a waste of time.

because it's amusing maybe? It's like waving meat in front of a hungry bear.

DaddyTorgo · 09-26-2005, 09:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Danny Drickman

This one time when I was a baby I accidently stole a candy necklace from a grocery store. My mom was grabbing something from a shelf and I must have picked it up and put it around my neck. I then fell asleep in the stroller and we left with the necklace. I cant believe my mom didn't get thrown into prison for 20 years, what is this world coming to!

well you're just going to HELL!! SINNER!!

JonInMiddleGA · 09-26-2005, 09:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RendeR

Its a waste of time.

Kinda like expecting anything of any value to ever come from your keyboard?

Surely as the sun rises & sets, Render will waste bandwidth & contribute nothing to any conversation.

JonInMiddleGA · 09-26-2005, 09:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ISiddiqui

And what does that have to do with the concept of "PERSONAL responsibility". Since you show such disdain for the law, refering back to it doesn't qualify as an adequate response.

Well, if you want to know the truth, I figure outright advocation of executing them for their abject failure to teach anything resembling an adequate set of ethics or morality to their children would probably be more than some of the bedwetters here could take, I figured I'd go with the lesser (albeit increasingly ineffective) route here just to be kind.

illinifan999 · 09-26-2005, 09:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by illinifan999

ever speed, maybe even just 1 mile over the speed limit?

ba dump cha

09-26-2005, 06:57 PM	#3
SirFozzie Hall Of Famer Join Date: Nov 2000 Location: The State of Insanity	Judge smacking around the RIAA in initial court appearance __________________ Check out Foz's New Video Game Site, An 8-bit Mind in an 8GB world! http://an8bitmind.com

09-26-2005, 07:04 PM	#4
SirFozzie Hall Of Famer Join Date: Nov 2000 Location: The State of Insanity	Love this part (Sorry about the line #'s, got this from the .txt file above) 20 THE COURT: I'm in no hurry to see this case resolved. 21 So far, Mrs. Santangelo has raised enough issues, including the 22 use of a screen name or an account name -- not hers, but some 23 other person's -- that suggests that she might have some really 24 interesting defenses to this. And there are defenses that 25 maybe even ought to be litigated. The whole concept of a young 1 person using the parent's computer access is bad enough, but if 2 this name is not hers, she doesn't pay for this account. 3 MR. MASCHIO: They wouldn't have brought the action, 4 your Honor, if they hadn't verified that very carefully. 5 THE COURT: Well, we'll see, won't we? We'll see. 6 And if what she's telling me is wrong, I won't be very happy 7 with her. 8 So let's set another conference date for July 8th at, 9 say, 10 a.m. And hopefully you will have an attorney by then. 10 And if you get an attorney, you need to put the attorney in 11 touch with Mr. Maschio, and maybe you will get this thing 12 resolved. 13 MS. SANTANGELO: Mr. Maschio's -- 14 THE COURT: He will give you his business card. 15 MS. SANTANGELO: There is more than one group here. 16 MR. MASCHIO: I'll give her my card, but our 17 instructions are for these people to deal with the conference 18 settlement center. They had discussions. 19 THE COURT: I'm sorry. Your instructions from me, the 20 Judge -- 21 MR. MASCHIO: Okay. 22 THE COURT: -- are that, if she appears with a lawyer, 23 her lawyer will deal with you. 24 MR. MASCHIO: Oh, absolutely, your Honor. 25 THE COURT: Otherwise, you take your action and you 1 file it in front of an arbitrator. 2 MR. MASCHIO: No, all I was suggesting, your Honor, is 3 that, if she doesn't come with an attorney, that the more 4 direct way of doing this -- and this is just to facilitate 5 things -- is to deal directly with the conference center. 6 THE COURT: Not once you've filed an action in my 7 court. 8 MR. MASCHIO: Okay. 9 THE COURT: You file an action in my court, your 10 conference center is out of it. They have nothing to do with 11 anything. 12 MR. MASCHIO: Okay. I'll give her my card. 13 THE COURT: If you are here, you are here as an 14 officer of the court. You're taking up my time and cluttering 15 up my calendar, so you will do it in the context of the Court. 16 Maybe it will be with a magistrate judge, but you will be 17 representing your client, not some conference center. And if 18 your people want things to be done through the conference 19 center, tell them not to bring lawsuits. __________________ Check out Foz's New Video Game Site, An 8-bit Mind in an 8GB world! http://an8bitmind.com

09-26-2005, 07:07 PM	#5
JonInMiddleGA Hall Of Famer Join Date: Nov 2000 Location: Behind Enemy Lines in Athens, GA	Just another example of why I have a decreasing amount of faith in the court system & why I'm becoming more & more certain that it needs a serious overhaul. __________________ "I lit another cigarette. Unless I specifically inform you to the contrary, I am always lighting another cigarette." - from a novel by Martin Amis

09-26-2005, 07:22 PM	#9
SirFozzie Hall Of Famer Join Date: Nov 2000 Location: The State of Insanity	And there we go, after about a year of pretty much agreeing on most issues, we're back to this, Just like the old days Jon. This is a huge kick in the jimmies for the RIAA. Their big plan was to sue all the parents into trying to hover over the kids 24/7, just in case they downloaded a song. Thy threaten 150K a song (as if..), and extort as much as they can out of the family, and then move on to the next one. But even though they still can sue the kid (and if they should or not, hey, that's their decision), don't know if they will. A) They'd look even further like the mafia-like thugs they are with 2,000 lawsuits against minors B) Guess what.. kids ain't got no money. Oh well, can't extort it from the big pocketbooks of the folks no more. The judge had it right. Don't use our already overburdened court system as an extortion system. If you're going to sue.. deal with lawyers. Don't say. "Our lawyers will crush you.. but you can pay us now" and refer them to the "Settlement" Center instead of dealing with lawyers. __________________ Check out Foz's New Video Game Site, An 8-bit Mind in an 8GB world! http://an8bitmind.com

09-26-2005, 08:58 PM	#32
illinifan999 Pro Rookie Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: VA	Life in prison for downloading songs, man where do people come up with this stuff? So I'm guessing you have no problem with someone spending their life in prison for going 4 miles over the speed limit right? It may be a petty crime, but fuck once we put those punks in jail I'll bet the streets are much more safe! __________________ Chicago Eagles 2 time ZFL champions We're "rebuilding"

09-26-2005, 06:56 PM	#2
DaddyTorgo Hall Of Famer Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Massachusetts	yessss!!! VICTORY OVER THE HEATHENS AT LONG LAST!!! I SHALL HAVE MY VENGENCE!!

09-26-2005, 07:31 PM	#15
DaddyTorgo Hall Of Famer Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Massachusetts	aaaah, i sense a SD-boxination coming for Sov.

09-26-2005, 07:34 PM	#16
BrianD Grizzled Veteran Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Appleton, WI	When you see someone wish death on three people, it is hard to not have a strong reaction.

09-26-2005, 08:32 PM	#26
sabotai General Manager Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: The Satellite of Love	What'd I give to have a private detective follow Jon around and see what lawlessness he's up to without even thinking about it. Speeding? Littering (with all the smoking you do, some of them must find their way to the sidewalk/street )?. I mean, you're the one who says the world is black and white. Lawlessness is lawlessness, right?

09-26-2005, 09:01 PM	#34
Anthony Banned Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: Astoria, NY, USA	i'll give Jon this: he's very consistent. i hate his views, but i admire his willingness to share his unpopular (and all totally wrong) opinions with the public. the "let the punishment fit the crime" statement is appropriate in this case - $150K for downloading a song is grossly insane. you don't even get punished that much for stealing an actual cd. a slap on the wrist and community service is more like it.

09-26-2005, 09:04 PM	#36
panerd Grizzled Veteran Join Date: Jul 2001 Location: St. Louis	I have always wondered why a pedophile has never attempted a similar defense? (Bear with me here, more of a curiosity thing than an evil plan) "What do you mean you found naked images of 13 year old girls on my computer? They belong to my 11-year old son! He can't look at naked girls that are older than him?"

09-26-2005, 09:13 PM	#39
ISiddiqui Hall Of Famer Join Date: Jan 2001 Location: Decatur, GA	I thought Jon believed in personal responsibility... why charge the parent for something the kid did? RIAA is only doing it because it fears the PR backlash if it goes against kids directly. __________________ "A prayer for the wild at heart, kept in cages" -Tennessee Williams

09-26-2005, 09:27 PM	#43
RendeR Coordinator Join Date: Aug 2001 Location: Buffalo, NY	Why do you people continue to attempt to make a real discussion with JiMG? He has proven time and time again that he will not waiver from his pathtically self rightious views on how EVERYONE should live their lives. Lucky for us we live in America and not say...stalinist russia or some other big-brother society. Yes, we're going that way with this pathetic administration, but we're not dead yet. Trying to have a logical sane, common SENSE discussion with JiMG is like trying to count the chinese all in a row, by the time you've finished, he's got an entirely new fucked up train of thought going. Its a waste of time. __________________ http://wotlabs.net/s...8/signature.png http://wotlabs.net/sig_dark/na/banichi18/signature.png

09-26-2005, 09:28 PM	#44
Danny Head Coach Join Date: Jul 2001	This one time when I was a baby I accidently stole a candy necklace from a grocery store. My mom was grabbing something from a shelf and I must have picked it up and put it around my neck. I then fell asleep in the stroller and we left with the necklace. I cant believe my mom didn't get thrown into prison for 20 years, what is this world coming to!

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