Curtis Martin officially retires: Hall of Famer?

[cthomer5000]

So, unsurprisingly, Curtis Martin offically retired today.

My question to the board is, do you think he'll be inducted into the hall of fame?

The case for Curtis:

• One of two backs to go over 1,000 for 10 straight years (Barry Sanders is the other)
• 4th all-time in rushing yardage
• 7th all-time in yards from scrimmage
• 12th all time in rushing TDs
• Was an iron-man until the final injury that eventually sunk him (missed just 4 games in his first 10 years)

The big case against Curtis:

Was arguably never the top back during a given year. Led the league in rushing just once (was the oldest player ever to do so, in fact). Was consistently among the very top backs, but probably never the top back during a given year.

[rkmsuf]

yes

[DaddyTorgo]

i'm just pissed that he left the pats to go hang out with parcells in NJ

[st.cronin]

I had to think for a second to remember who he was. No.

[rkmsuf]

Originally Posted by DaddyTorgo

i'm just pissed that he left the pats to go hang out with parcells in NJ

why? didn't work out too badly for NE.

[rkmsuf]

Originally Posted by st.cronin

I had to think for a second to remember who he was. No.

turn in your nfl fan card

[Castlerock]

Originally Posted by DaddyTorgo

i'm just pissed that he left the pats to go hang out with parcells in NJ

+1

[rkmsuf]

Originally Posted by Castlerock

+1

yeah I suppose you people wanted to keep him around to save Pete Carrol, right?

[molson]

Obvious hall of famer. 4th all-time in rushing yards for crying out loud.

[cthomer5000]

I really have to think this one over personally. I hope he makes it, and I also hope the Jets retire his number. He's undoubtedly one of the absolute best to ever put on the uniform for the Jets.

I think the sticking point really could be that he was never THE guy, and the fact that there are some other good backs who've retired recently (Faulk, Bettis).

[molson]

Originally Posted by cthomer5000

I think the sticking point really could be that he was never THE guy, and the fact that there are some other good backs who've retired recently (Faulk, Bettis).

How many RBs in the last say, 10 years have been "THE guy" by that standard. Certainly not Bettis (Though Bettis has been in more commercials, which will help him).

[rkmsuf]

Originally Posted by cthomer5000

I really have to think this one over personally. I hope he makes it, and I also hope the Jets retire his number. He's undoubtedly one of the absolute best to ever put on the uniform for the Jets.

I think the sticking point really could be that he was never THE guy, and the fact that there are some other good backs who've retired recently (Faulk, Bettis).

As a Pats fan, the notion that the best ever to put the uniform on for the Jets isn't worthy of the hall of fame makes me LOL.

[cthomer5000]

Originally Posted by rkmsuf

As a Pats fan, the notion that the best ever to put the uniform on for the Jets isn't worthy of the hall of fame makes me LOL.

Your reading comprehension makes me LOL.

[rkmsuf]

Originally Posted by cthomer5000

Your reading comprehension makes me LOL.

I got it. You aren't sure if he'll make it. You hope he does but can't make the call.

Understandable since he did play for the Jets which makes it even more of a slam dunk he should go. You do what he did in the NJ swamp and you are the man.





Actually I think Martin was a better player than Bettis.

As far as the election committee, Martin will score well since he was a great guy. I don't see how he doesn't make it even if Faulk and Bettis are also in consideration.

[stevew]

If Bettis is widely considered to be a lock, and I mean that's tainted by where I live so maybe he's not, then Martin has to be a lock as well. I thought Bettis was terribly overrated and I think Martin performed better than him.

I thought Martin was going to be able to give Emmit's record a run for it's money, although injuries pretty much derailed that.

[Anthony]

i would take Faulk/Martin before i take Faulk/Bettis.

[Kodos]

I voted yes. Consistently very good for a long time.

[molson]

Originally Posted by Kodos

I voted yes. Consistently very good for a long time.

In baseball HOF discussions, that kind of thing can work against someone. But for an NFL RB, longevity is a huge accomplishment.

[Eaglesfan27]

Originally Posted by molson

Obvious hall of famer. 4th all-time in rushing yards for crying out loud.

QFT. 1st ballot hall of famer.

[vex]

I would have said no, because like you said, wasn't the top back. However, with the stats you posted, I say yes.

[miked]

Over 1000+ in each of his first 10 seasons, including a 1600yd performance in his last full season. Not to mention, with the Jets, he lost 8 fumbles in 123 games. Silly to think he shouldn't be a first ballot member. It wasn't that he got 4th overall by sticking around a long time, he was very effective in all his seasons (Except the last 2).

[Lathum]

no brainer

[rkmsuf]

Originally Posted by miked

Over 1000+ in each of his first 10 seasons, including a 1600yd performance in his last full season. Not to mention, with the Jets, he lost 8 fumbles in 123 games. Silly to think he shouldn't be a first ballot member. It wasn't that he got 4th overall by sticking around a long time, he was very effective in all his seasons (Except the last 2).

You could argue that at 4.0 a carry he wasn't "special" and that 4th all time was a direct result of longevity and getting the carries.

I say he's in but you could argue otherwise if so inclined.

He and Bettis have the lowest per carry average until you get to #10 on the all time carry list and Riggins.

Eddie George, 3.6 ypc. LOL.

[Synovia]

Touches per Fumble:

C Martin    138.0
C Dillon     102.1
M Faulk      100.1
J Bettis    89.7
E George     84.7
B Sanders     83.4
E Smith     80.7
E James     77.1
R Watters    71.8
T Thomas     67.0
M Allen     55.5
J Riggins     54.6
O Anderson     52.5
T Barber     51.3
W Payton    50.5
J Brown       46.2
O Simpson    42.6
E Dickerson    42.0
T Dorsett     37.0
F Harris      36.3

In my mind, Curtis Martin is a HOF'er. He was basically the best the NFL has ever seen at holding onto the ball.

[Desnudo]

Consistent, but unexciting. I say no.

[molson]

Originally Posted by Synovia

In my mind, Curtis Martin is a HOF'er. He was basically the best the NFL has ever seen at holding onto the ball.

Great stat. It speaks well for Dillon's value and HOF chances as well.

[Synovia]

Originally Posted by molson

Great stat. It speaks well for Dillon's value and HOF chances as well.

I dont know if it makes a difference in HOF chances, but it definitely does in the players value. A good part of the reason players like Bettis and Martin hung around so long is because they NEVER dropped the ball. Other players may have had higher YPC, but put the ball down more.

Fumbles hurt a LOT more than a low YPC.

Remember, failed running attempts lead to turning the ball over 45 yards downfield. Fumbles lead to turning the ball over right here.

It would be interesting to see where the numbers came out if you subtracted the league average punt from their total for each fumble, and see who came out with the highest YPC.

[Logan]

Originally Posted by Desnudo

Consistent, but unexciting. I say no.

A guy who is a guarantee for 4 yards every carry, nothing more and nothing less, would be very unexciting...but could potentially be the biggest weapon ever when it comes to ball control and keeping the opposing team's offense off the field.

edit: A resounding YES from me. I think he'll be better thought of in 10-20 years than he is now.

[Vinatieri for Prez]

Originally Posted by molson

Great stat. It speaks well for Dillon's value and HOF chances as well.

Dillon will get in too.

[rkmsuf]

Originally Posted by Vinatieri for Prez

Dillon will get in too.

Now there is a really borderline guy.

[Vinatieri for Prez]

Originally Posted by rkmsuf

Now there is a really borderline guy.

I think it's close, but he will and should go. That 1,600 yard franchise record SB win season with the Pats clinched it. He also was consistently good over many seasons. He'll go.

And Curtis Martin will definitely go. The writers will eat him up. And they should. Class guy (although I hated him for leaving the Pats) and just a solid consistent runner over time. Fourth in career yards? No brainer.

[rkmsuf]

Look at Tomlinson's career numbers. That's like wtf stuff.

[cthomer5000]

Originally Posted by rkmsuf

Look at Tomlinson's career numbers. That's like wtf stuff.

It really is. He's posting video game numbers.

You guys have sold me on the fact that he'll get inducted. The fact that he was also a definite good guy and a real "heart of a warrior" type will really work in his favor. I imagine he's very well liked by basically everybody who is going to have a say in voting.

[st.cronin]

I put Faulk way, way, way above Martin and Bettis. He's in a different league. Bettis was also a very unique style runner, I think maybe he gets some points for that.

[cthomer5000]

Originally Posted by Vinatieri for Prez

Dillon will get in too.

I think he's extremely borderline.

In my opinion, if Dillon is even a serious candidate than Martin is a 1st-ballot guy.

[Synovia]

Faulk also had a LOT more talent around him that Martin EVER did. A LOT of Martin's years were on teams that had abysmal passing games.

[Desnudo]

Originally Posted by Logan

A guy who is a guarantee for 4 yards every carry, nothing more and nothing less, would be very unexciting...but could potentially be the biggest weapon ever when it comes to ball control and keeping the opposing team's offense off the field.

edit: A resounding YES from me. I think he'll be better thought of in 10-20 years than he is now.

I agree, because people will be looking at stats. He just wasn't very exciting to watch.

[Young Drachma]

I always waited for him to decline in New York or to bolt after Parcells left. But he really stuck it out and was dependable as hell for so many years. The guy is a no-doubt first ballot HoF.

[gkb]

I'm undecided on Martin. Looking at the stats posted really makes me think that yeah, he should be in. Thinking about the NFL while he was in the league and the "impact" he had makes me think no.

I'm not sure just being consistent is enough to get into the HoF. I know a lot of the guys on this forum don't like Colin Cowherd's show, but one of the things he mentions when talking about HoF entry is, "Can you tell the story of Sport League X without Player Y?"

Can you tell the story of Pro Football without Curtis Martin?
Can you tell the story of Pro Football without Corey Dillon?
Can you tell the story of Pro Football without Jerome Bettis?

I'm not sure I know the answers to those questions and I'm sure some of you who know a lot more about football's history will come up with some great examples against that manner of determining HoF entry.

I'm rambling...for entry into the HoF I'd say Martin no, Dillon no, Bettis yes.

[Young Drachma]

Without him, the Jets never would've rebounded to a place where they were at least decent. That makes him the most important member of the club since Broadway Joe.

[Young Drachma]

Originally Posted by gkb

I'm undecided on Martin. Looking at the stats posted really makes me think that yeah, he should be in. Thinking about the NFL while he was in the league and the "impact" he had makes me think no.

I'm not sure just being consistent is enough to get into the HoF. I know a lot of the guys on this forum don't like Colin Cowherd's show, but one of the things he mentions when talking about HoF entry is, "Can you tell the story of Sport League X without Player Y?"

Can you tell the story of Pro Football without Curtis Martin?
Can you tell the story of Pro Football without Corey Dillon?
Can you tell the story of Pro Football without Jerome Bettis?

I'm not sure I know the answers to those questions and I'm sure some of you who know a lot more about football's history will come up with some great examples against that manner of determining HoF entry.


I think the context of what teams some of these guys played on is far more important a consideration in football than other sports.

I'm rambling...for entry into the HoF I'd say Martin no, Dillon no, Bettis yes.

Telling the story of the NFL (since it's the only pro football league with any staying power) would be a hell of a lot less interesting if you didn't have Curtis Martin on the Jets, Jerome Bettis on the Steelers...and Dillion is more of a toss up. He was the only thing on the Bengals teams for so many years and then he went to New England and was a model citizen in a title year. he doesn't scream HoF to me, but he'll probably stack up with the best of 'em at the end and should get a shot.

I think the context of what teams some of these guys played on is far more important a consideration in football than other sports.

Lynn Swann is in the Hall of Fame for crying out loud. I think football's credibility in terms of who gets in and who doesn't, is probably the most porous of any sport other than basketball, where pretty much anybody gets in.

[Vinatieri for Prez]

Originally Posted by gkb

Can you tell the story of Pro Football without Curtis Martin?
Can you tell the story of Pro Football without Corey Dillon?
Can you tell the story of Pro Football without Jerome Bettis?

I see what you're saying, but that's simply not the criteria for going into the pro football hall of fame. If it was, some guys in there would not be in there.

[Vinatieri for Prez]

Originally Posted by cthomer5000

I think he's extremely borderline.

In my opinion, if Dillon is even a serious candidate than Martin is a 1st-ballot guy.

You would be right on both accounts then.

[Desnudo]

Originally Posted by gkb

I'm undecided on Martin. Looking at the stats posted really makes me think that yeah, he should be in. Thinking about the NFL while he was in the league and the "impact" he had makes me think no.

I'm not sure just being consistent is enough to get into the HoF. I know a lot of the guys on this forum don't like Colin Cowherd's show, but one of the things he mentions when talking about HoF entry is, "Can you tell the story of Sport League X without Player Y?"

Can you tell the story of Pro Football without Curtis Martin?
Can you tell the story of Pro Football without Corey Dillon?
Can you tell the story of Pro Football without Jerome Bettis?

I'm not sure I know the answers to those questions and I'm sure some of you who know a lot more about football's history will come up with some great examples against that manner of determining HoF entry.

I'm rambling...for entry into the HoF I'd say Martin no, Dillon no, Bettis yes.

I think of it more like, "Would I pay just to see Curtis Martin because he's a special player?" And the answer is no. For all three.

[Castlerock]

Originally Posted by Vinatieri for Prez

Dillon will get in too.

I don't know. That very borderline.

Originally Posted by stevew

If Bettis is widely considered to be a lock, and I mean that's tainted by where I live so maybe he's not, then Martin has to be a lock as well. I thought Bettis was terribly overrated and I think Martin performed better than him.

I thought Martin was going to be able to give Emmit's record a run for it's money, although injuries pretty much derailed that.

I don't think Bettis is a lock at all.

Originally Posted by st.cronin

I put Faulk way, way, way above Martin and Bettis. He's in a different league. Bettis was also a very unique style runner, I think maybe he gets some points for that.

I think it's:
Faulk
Martin
Dillon
Bettis
with the HOF line below Martin.

[MikeVic]

Bettis has to get in! And it's not the Steeler fan in me that's saying so!

[molson]

Originally Posted by Vinatieri for Prez

I see what you're saying, but that's simply not the criteria for going into the pro football hall of fame. If it was, some guys in there would not be in there.

Cowherd is such an oddball. One could "tell the history of football" and limit specifc mentioning of players to 5 or 6. Or on the other hand, telling a more complete "history of football" should probably include Doug Williams and Jim Mcmahon. Should they be in?

[RedKingGold]

Smith's not eligible for the HOF yet either, right?

I think the problem for all of these backs in the 90's is that there were many very good ones. In fact, I think this is pretty much what kills Terrell Davis's HOF chances.

[stevew]

You can definitely tell the story of pro-football without Corey Dillon. I mean, that's just plain laughable.

[cthomer5000]

I don't quite get the Dillon ahead of Bettis logic.

It's honestly never crossed my mind that Dillon was a hall of fame RB.