The official 2008 MLB thread

[terpkristin]

Seems like as good a place as any to ask, anybody have experiences (good or bad) with the MLB.com Gameday Audio program? It seems like a pretty inexpensive way for me to be able to listen to a lot of the BoSox games. I don't really need to watch them, but I like to listen...

Anybody good/bad? Or should I just jump in?

/tk

[Lathum]

Originally Posted by terpkristin

Seems like as good a place as any to ask, anybody have experiences (good or bad) with the MLB.com Gameday Audio program? It seems like a pretty inexpensive way for me to be able to listen to a lot of the BoSox games. I don't really need to watch them, but I like to listen...

Anybody good/bad? Or should I just jump in?

/tk

we talked about this earlier in this thread. basicly it's a good deal

[terpkristin]

Originally Posted by Lathum

we talked about this earlier in this thread. basicly it's a good deal

Doh. I missed that. And now I'm signing up for it.

/tk

[sterlingice]

I see rain! Call the season. Royals either win the Central or Wild Card and qualify for the playoffs! Woo!

SI

[Lathum]

Originally Posted by sterlingice

I see rain! Call the season. Royals either win the Central or Wild Card and qualify for the playoffs! Woo!

SI

must be fun to be in Kansas right now

[sterlingice]

It's one of the better sports days I can think of. And even better is that I just have 48 hours to just enjoy it as the Royals don't play until Wednesday and KU doesn't play until Saturday

SI

[korme]

Originally Posted by Lathum

pitching wins. period. As long as they score timely runs thats all that matters. I just don't understand your argument. It's not like Juan Pierre hitting third.

Lathum, you're a dumb ass. I know that pitching wins, but this whole argument stems from Eric Byrnes batting third. Plain and simple. I defended my points, but apparently you ignore all logic. And here I thought saldana was the female.

[Lathum]

Originally Posted by Shorty3281

Lathum, you're a dumb ass. I know that pitching wins, but this whole argument stems from Eric Byrnes batting third. Plain and simple. I defended my points, but apparently you ignore all logic. And here I thought saldana was the female.

dude, WTF was your point? That a guy who is 32 bats third, big fucking deal. That the Dbacks had the most wins in the NL but didn't score alot of runs? That Byrnes isn't a typical 3 hitter? Who the fuck cares? They win. It works for them.

Maybe rooting for shit teams like the Reds and Bengals has warped your sense of a winner,, but your probably like all the other knuckle draggers down here who would rather see Ocho Cinco do a clever endzone celebration then win.

Dumbass, grow the fuck up dude.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Meanwhile Jayson Stark looks like Idiot #1 with his Braves prediction.
Back to back nights when the bullpen blows another one.

edit to add: Meanwhile the Braves announced tonight that Scott Spezio has been signed to a minor league contract & will work out with Class A Rome before reporting to AAA Richmond.

[Arles]

Originally Posted by Shorty3281

Again, the point is that while they won a nice amount of games, we can't just pretend that their lineup was as equal the reason as the pitching staff.

These are obvious rebuttals, how are you not picking up on them

The DBacks saying their hitting is why they win would be akin to the Yankees saying they win on the back of their starting 5. Unlike the Yankees, the DBacks have limited resources and chosen to spend it on a very solid starting 4 rotation and bullpen. That means that just two players in their starting lineup (Byrnes and Hudson) make more than $2 million. With that many young guys, they feel it's best to put the vets in the 2-3 spot instead of higher talent guys that are younger. I don't think it's a terrible theory, to be honest. Still, with guys like Chris Young, Upton, Stephen Drew, Jackson and Reynolds - the Dbacks have a pretty solid offense with a ton of upside.

Then again, maybe the DBacks are crazy for investing $15 million on a starting rotation of Webb, Haren and Doug Davis for 2008 instead of paying that same amount to Adam Dunn and having a better #3 hitter.

[Lathum]

thank you for making my point Arlie

[JonInMiddleGA]

Long time Braves announcer Skip Caray will begin the season working a limited schedule of home games on radio only. He's suffering from a variety of health issues -- diabetes, arrythmia, congestive heart failure, and reduced liver & kidney function -- and apparently nearly died last October.

"My wife told me she went in there one day and they were wheeling me off to the side in ICU and she said, 'Great, is he getting a room?'" Caray said. "And they said, 'No, ma'am, we've done all we can do for him. Make sure that his next of kin is close.' So it was that close.

"And I do remember somewhere in there — I don't know when — but I woke up one time and I remember thinking, without any fear, 'So this is what dying is like. This isn't so bad.' And the next thing I remember, the doctor and my family are looking at me. I just woke up."

http://www.ajc.com/sports/content/sp...ge_tab_newstab

[Lathum]

OK I feel bad about losing my cool at shorty but I'm not going to edit my post. Him taking what was a seemingly good naturated discussion to calling me a dumbass unprovoked was bush league and uncalled for.

[JS19]

Originally Posted by Lathum

I am amazed at all these talking heads who are predicting the Braves to win the NL east.

They have 2 over 40 pitchers in there rotation, a suspect closer and an injury prone third baseman. Not much speed at the top and a lineup that strikes out way to much.

Outside of Tex and McCann they have offensive questions at every position and Mark Kotsay is their opening day center fielder. Am I missing something here?

Not just saying this bc I'm a Mets fan, but I don't see it either. Not saying they are a bad team, but good enough to get past the Mets/Phillies?

Same thing with all these ESPN guys picking the Cubs to make the World Series, some even say to win it. I'll admit, as I get older I don't have the time to follow the game as much as I once did, but I still like to think I follow it closley enough, and the only reason I would see the Cubs making the playoffs is by default, no chance in hell for a title.

[korme]

Originally Posted by Lathum

dude, WTF was your point? That a guy who is 32 bats third, big fucking deal. That the Dbacks had the most wins in the NL but didn't score alot of runs? That Byrnes isn't a typical 3 hitter? Who the fuck cares? They win. It works for them.

Maybe rooting for shit teams like the Reds and Bengals has warped your sense of a winner,, but your probably like all the other knuckle draggers down here who would rather see Ocho Cinco do a clever endzone celebration then win.

Dumbass, grow the fuck up dude.

hahahahahahahahah

[korme]

Originally Posted by Arles

The DBacks saying their hitting is why they win would be akin to the Yankees saying they win on the back of their starting 5. Unlike the Yankees, the DBacks have limited resources and chosen to spend it on a very solid starting 4 rotation and bullpen. That means that just two players in their starting lineup (Byrnes and Hudson) make more than $2 million. With that many young guys, they feel it's best to put the vets in the 2-3 spot instead of higher talent guys that are younger. I don't think it's a terrible theory, to be honest. Still, with guys like Chris Young, Upton, Stephen Drew, Jackson and Reynolds - the Dbacks have a pretty solid offense with a ton of upside.

Then again, maybe the DBacks are crazy for investing $15 million on a starting rotation of Webb, Haren and Doug Davis for 2008 instead of paying that same amount to Adam Dunn and having a better #3 hitter.

It isn't like I was attacking Arizona for their moves. Dude, read that initial post that got Lathum all bitchy to begin with. I said I like the club! But in terms of championship success, Byrnes being the best hitter on the club (in terms of lineup placement) is the biggest red flag. That is it! Jesus! I didn't say anything to suggest otherwise.

[korme]

Originally Posted by Lathum

OK I feel bad about losing my cool at shorty but I'm not going to edit my post. Him taking what was a seemingly good naturated discussion to calling me a dumbass unprovoked was bush league and uncalled for.

I called you a dumbass because instead of just taking what I was saying for what it was, an opinion, you seemed to try to call me out like I was saying something all questionable. I said what everyone knows, Byrnes is no Matt Holliday. Then again, the Dbacks are built for defense & pitching. That is all. I didn't say they are fucked. I like their team. I also brought up that they got OUTSCORED in an entire season despite the winning record because that is obviously a product of their weak lineup- and they were only the fifth team in ML HISTORY to make the playoffs when that has happened, so that might be a concern if you are banking on lighting striking in a bottle twice. Just bringing up shit. It's baseball season, I want to discuss teams without you getting all hostile.

[korme]

BTW Arlie, I'd gladly keep Harang/Arroyo over Webb/Haren.

Well maybe just Harang over Webb.

Call me crazy now.

[Arles]

Originally Posted by Shorty3281

BTW Arlie, I'd gladly keep Harang/Arroyo over Webb/Haren.

Well maybe just Harang over Webb.

Call me crazy now.

You're crazy, but I do like this Reds team. It wouldn't surprise me one bit to see them win the central this year. As to Harang over Webb, well you may be the only one - and it's not just because Webb will make $20 million the next 3 years compared to Harang's $30 mil in that same time frame.

[Lathum]

Originally Posted by Shorty3281

I called you a dumbass because instead of just taking what I was saying for what it was, an opinion, you seemed to try to call me out like I was saying something all questionable. I said what everyone knows, Byrnes is no Matt Holliday. Then again, the Dbacks are built for defense & pitching. That is all. I didn't say they are fucked. I like their team. I also brought up that they got OUTSCORED in an entire season despite the winning record because that is obviously a product of their weak lineup- and they were only the fifth team in ML HISTORY to make the playoffs when that has happened, so that might be a concern if you are banking on lighting striking in a bottle twice. Just bringing up shit. It's baseball season, I want to discuss teams without you getting all hostile.

dude, we were having a discussion. Show me where I got hostile, you were the one out of line calling me a dumb ass. Excuse me if I can't read your mind.

[sterlingice]

Jake Peavy giving himself all the offense he needs with 2 RBIs and up 2-0 in the 4th.

SI

[Buccaneer]

Go Peav and Pads!

[sterlingice]

Rough game for Oswalt

You know I love Peavy, Bucc, but I gotta pull for the Astros today. Not liking their chances at the moment...

SI

[kingfc22]

This is going to be a LONG, LONG season

[Cringer]

Astros couldn't hit Peavy at all. Well, at least I got a good sun burn yesterday.

[saldana]

Originally Posted by Shorty3281

Lathum, you're a dumb ass. I know that pitching wins, but this whole argument stems from Eric Byrnes batting third. Plain and simple. I defended my points, but apparently you ignore all logic. And here I thought saldana was the female.

hey douchebag, it stops being a joke when it becomes a cheap shot at my best friend.

seeing as how you decided to drag me into this, and since you are questioning the use of logic, where exactly is the fault in the logic of having your number 3 hitter be a guy that put up these numbers last year?

G AB R H 2B 3B HR RBI BB SO SB CS AVG OBP SLG OPS
160 626 103 179 30 8 21 83 57 98 50 7 .286 .353 .460 .813

since you really wont be able to answer that question with a legitimate answer, how about you just STFU instead.

[Chief Rum]

Originally Posted by saldana

hey douchebag, it stops being a joke when it becomes a cheap shot at my best friend.

seeing as how you decided to drag me into this, and since you are questioning the use of logic, where exactly is the fault in the logic of having your number 3 hitter be a guy that put up these numbers last year?

G AB R H 2B 3B HR RBI BB SO SB CS AVG OBP SLG OPS
160 626 103 179 30 8 21 83 57 98 50 7 .286 .353 .460 .813

since you really wont be able to answer that question with a legitimate answer, how about you just STFU instead.

I don't agree with the namecalling, so I'm not "joining" with Shorty in that respect, but if that's the #3 hitter--the best hitter on the team, who doesn't have anywhere close to 100 ribbies, just a shade over 20 dingers, lower than .300 average and just a little over an .800 OPS--that is the best hitter? Sorry, but that isn't a lineup I am expecting to score a lot.

[Lathum]

Originally Posted by Chief Rum

I don't agree with the namecalling, so I'm not "joining" with Shorty in that respect, but if that's the #3 hitter--the best hitter on the team, who doesn't have anywhere close to 100 ribbies, just a shade over 20 dingers, lower than .300 average and just a little over an .800 OPS--that is the best hitter? Sorry, but that isn't a lineup I am expecting to score a lot.

A. Shorty started it by calling me a dumbass from out of no where, I could say I think Byrnes is better the Barry Bonds and he still has no right or reason to insult me

B. My argument was who really cares, they win.

[Ksyrup]

Very cool that DirecTV has FINALLY given us the feeds from both teams' TV announcers for most games. Yay! Although the bastards are making me listen to Michael Kay - I wonder if the Yankees are going to be the only team where they refuse to give the other team's announcers.

[Chief Rum]

Originally Posted by Lathum

A. Shorty started it by calling me a dumbass from out of no where, I could say I think Byrnes is better the Barry Bonds and he still has no right or reason to insult me

B. My argument was who really cares, they win.

A. Agreed.

B. Yup, they do.

I should say my argument was specifically on the numbers saldana posted as a stand alone (I know that's Byrnes' numbers, of course), but that's not an actual reflection of my opinion of the DBacks' lineup. I was just playing devil's advocate, saying, okay, if this is the #3 and best hitter and we have a normal regression at the other spots in the lineup, then this is a pretty poor lineup. The reality is that where Arizona lacks in proven top hitting ability, they make up some with depth, as they have several players like Byrnes, Upton, Drew, Reynolds, Jackson, Tracy (he's still around, isn't he?) who are all solid young hitters with good upside (okay Byrnes isn't young).

All that said, they win with pitching. And some luck (based on last year).

[saldana]

Originally Posted by Ronnie Dobbs2

I don't think it's a ridiculous thought that Arizona will likely need to score more runs (or somehow let even fewer through) to repeat last years success.

i think adding haren will help a bit with the latter

and chief, i agree that the numbers arent great, but they arent horrible either...there are plenty of teams that are doing worse than byrnes in the 3 hole, which i believe was lathums entire point.

[Chief Rum]

Originally Posted by saldana

i think adding haren will help a bit with the latter

and chief, i agree that the numbers arent great, but they arent horrible either...there are plenty of teams that are doing worse than byrnes in the 3 hole, which i believe was lathums entire point.

Actually an interesting question to ask. I don't know how many teams are worse off at the "best hitter" spot than DBacks, but you (or Lathum) might be right.

[Atocep]

Originally Posted by Chief Rum

A. Agreed.

B. Yup, they do.

I should say my argument was specifically on the numbers saldana posted as a stand alone (I know that's Byrnes' numbers, of course), but that's not an actual reflection of my opinion of the DBacks' lineup. I was just playing devil's advocate, saying, okay, if this is the #3 and best hitter and we have a normal regression at the other spots in the lineup, then this is a pretty poor lineup. The reality is that where Arizona lacks in proven top hitting ability, they make up some with depth, as they have several players like Byrnes, Upton, Drew, Reynolds, Jackson, Tracy (he's still around, isn't he?) who are all solid young hitters with good upside (okay Byrnes isn't young).

All that said, they win with pitching. And some luck (based on last year).

Agree with Chief. An .813 OPS from your #3 hitter goes a long way in explaining how the Dbacks were outscored on the season.


Run differential is the biggest indicator in a team's overall talent level and success. The Dbacks beat their Pythag record by about 11 games. Part of it was luck, part of it was the way the team is constructed, and part of it was Melvin not overmanaging his team like a Tony LaRussa would.

If anyone thinks there's some magic formula that points to a team being able to make the playoffs after being outscored by their opponents on the season, you're sadly mistaken. There's years and years of data showing that 99% of the time you can predict a team's record within a game or two simply by looking at how many runs they scored compared to how many they gave up.

[Atocep]

Originally Posted by saldana

and chief, i agree that the numbers arent great, but they arent horrible either...there are plenty of teams that are doing worse than byrnes in the 3 hole, which i believe was lathums entire point.

For a #3 hitter they are horrible. He plays in one of the top 5 hitters parks, keep in mind, his OPS on the road was .774.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by Chief Rum

Actually an interesting question to ask. I don't know how many teams are worse off at the "best hitter" spot than DBacks, but you (or Lathum) might be right.

Well, let's see what we can find. I'm strictly looking at the #3 hitters in tonight's lineups, so I'm not even attempting to account for injuries, platoons, whatever. If somebody wants to remove a guy from consideration for some reason then feel free.

Worse - 8
Twins -- Cuddyer '07 OPS .789, lifetime .795
Marlins -- Jacobs '07 OPS .775, lifetime .813
Giants -- Winn '07 OPS .798, lifetime .768
Dodgers -- Ethier '07 OPS .802, lifetime .818
Padres -- Kouzmanoff '07 OPS .786, lifetime .773
Nationals -- Zimmerman '07 OPS. 788, lifetime .811
Royals - Gordon '07 OPS .725, lifetime .727
Pirates - Bay '07 OPS .745, lifetime .888

Split - 3
Bluejays - Rios '07 OPS .852, lifetime .792
Yankees - Abreu '07 OPS .814, lifetime .908
Mariners - Ibanez '07 OPS .831, lifetime .815

Better - 18
Angels/Guerrero, Mets/Wright, Cardinals/Pujols, Reds/Griffey, Rockies/Helton, Astros/Berkman, Rangers/Hamilton, Brewers/Fielder, Cubs/D.Lee, Phils/Utley,
WhiteSox/Thome, Indians/Haffner, Orioles/Markakis, Rays/Pena, Yanks/Sheff,
Braves/C.Jones, RedSox/Ortiz, A's/Barton

[Crapshoot]

Originally Posted by Shorty3281

I called you a dumbass because instead of just taking what I was saying for what it was, an opinion, you seemed to try to call me out like I was saying something all questionable. I said what everyone knows, Byrnes is no Matt Holliday. Then again, the Dbacks are built for defense & pitching. That is all. I didn't say they are fucked. I like their team. I also brought up that they got OUTSCORED in an entire season despite the winning record because that is obviously a product of their weak lineup- and they were only the fifth team in ML HISTORY to make the playoffs when that has happened, so that might be a concern if you are banking on lighting striking in a bottle twice. Just bringing up shit. It's baseball season, I want to discuss teams without you getting all hostile.

Don't even bother - you're pointing out a logical argument that he's just not comprehending. Teams that get outscored generally regress. With the D-backs, they have enough young talent that I would not expect it to happen again this year.

FWIW, the Pythagorean is pretty accurate, but I think there's a legit arguement that a really good or really bad bullpen can skew the results.

[Crapshoot]

Btw, is anyone else just glad baseball is back? I know how some of you guys feel about football, but I'm just happier, even though my team is run by a creepy dumbass with the intellect of a crack whore.

[ISiddiqui]

I am!

Just the fact that the game is back is enough for me every year... even when my team sucked royally.

[Atocep]

Originally Posted by Crapshoot

Btw, is anyone else just glad baseball is back? I know how some of you guys feel about football, but I'm just happier, even though my team is run by a creepy dumbass with the intellect of a crack whore.

Baseball season is 7 months of heaven.

And if this season doesn't get Sabean fired then nothing will. That team may struggle to score 3 runs per game this season.

[Crapshoot]

Originally Posted by Atocep

Baseball season is 7 months of heaven.

And if this season doesn't get Sabean fired then nothing will. That team may struggle to score 3 runs per game this season.

Don't make me cry, please. I'm watching Rich Aurillia "play" 1b., when your average AAA player could outhit him. The fact that the idiot who runs our team can't see that ... well, sniper rifles are on sale.

[MizzouRah]

Nice throw Glaus!

[korme]

Originally Posted by saldana

hey douchebag, it stops being a joke when it becomes a cheap shot at my best friend.

seeing as how you decided to drag me into this, and since you are questioning the use of logic, where exactly is the fault in the logic of having your number 3 hitter be a guy that put up these numbers last year?

G AB R H 2B 3B HR RBI BB SO SB CS AVG OBP SLG OPS
160 626 103 179 30 8 21 83 57 98 50 7 .286 .353 .460 .813

since you really wont be able to answer that question with a legitimate answer, how about you just STFU instead.

It's a decent line but, and I can't find any fuckin sortable stats and it's pissing me off, but I'm guessing I don't need concrete evidence to assume that is one of the worst lines for an everyday 3 hole hitter, and they are a contending team, so it's got to be a concern. How many times do I have to repeat myself? THATS ALL IM FUCKIN SAYIN.

BTW, i called lathum a dumbass. i didn't think that was that big of a deal. sorry lathum, didn't think you'd be so offended.

[Cringer]

Originally Posted by Crapshoot

Btw, is anyone else just glad baseball is back? I know how some of you guys feel about football, but I'm just happier, even though my team is run by a creepy dumbass with the intellect of a crack whore.

It is not football, but from now until October is the best part or the year to me for many reasons.

1. If I miss the game today, another one is one tomorrow.
2. Trips up to Houston to catch 2-3 games per trip.
3. The MLS season just started so I have two sports and two favorite teams to follow for 6 months.
4. I have missed so much of baseball over the last 9 years I no longer know as many players as I did, and now being home I look forward to learning about players and teams again.

[korme]

Yes, I am glad baseball season is here.

Been playing MLB 08 with the Orioles, wanted a challenge. Let's just say that team is in ROUGH shape- but atleast they have a good 3 hole hitter in Markaikas! Just kidding D-backs fans.

But seriously, I'm 0-5 and wondering how they have assembled such large amounts of waste.

[Buccaneer]

Yes, very, very happy that baseball is finally here. Which also means I start ramping my card collecting again, as well as getting ready to play another long OOTP career.

[Atocep]

Originally Posted by Shorty3281

But seriously, I'm 0-5 and wondering how they have assembled such large amounts of waste.

Peter Angelos = Mike Brown

[ISiddiqui]

Originally Posted by JonInMiddleGA

Well, let's see what we can find. I'm strictly looking at the #3 hitters in tonight's lineups, so I'm not even attempting to account for injuries, platoons, whatever. If somebody wants to remove a guy from consideration for some reason then feel free.

Worse - 8
Twins -- Cuddyer '07 OPS .789, lifetime .795
Marlins -- Jacobs '07 OPS .775, lifetime .813
Giants -- Winn '07 OPS .798, lifetime .768
Dodgers -- Ethier '07 OPS .802, lifetime .818
Padres -- Kouzmanoff '07 OPS .786, lifetime .773
Nationals -- Zimmerman '07 OPS. 788, lifetime .811
Royals - Gordon '07 OPS .725, lifetime .727
Pirates - Bay '07 OPS .745, lifetime .888

Split - 3
Bluejays - Rios '07 OPS .852, lifetime .792
Yankees - Abreu '07 OPS .814, lifetime .908
Mariners - Ibanez '07 OPS .831, lifetime .815

Better - 18
Angels/Guerrero, Mets/Wright, Cardinals/Pujols, Reds/Griffey, Rockies/Helton, Astros/Berkman, Rangers/Hamilton, Brewers/Fielder, Cubs/D.Lee, Phils/Utley,
WhiteSox/Thome, Indians/Haffner, Orioles/Markakis, Rays/Pena, Yanks/Sheff,
Braves/C.Jones, RedSox/Ortiz, A's/Barton

Well, in the case of Ethier, Kouzmanoff, Gordon, and Zimmerman, you have young players who are supposed to do far better this season. Also, if we look at OPS+, it presents a better picture, IMO. Byrnes had an '07 OPS+ of 104 and a career OPS+ of 100 (right at average). And he's 32, so no real anticipated improvement.

Zimmerman had 107 OPS+ last season and a career OPS+ of 112, and is only 23, so should improve.

Gordon had an OPS+ of 87 in his rookie season of 2007, but is expected to be a great player and is 24.

Kouzmanoff had an OPS+ of 107 in '07, career OPS+ of 105 and is 26.

Ethier had an OPS+ of 103 and a career OPS+ of 107 and is 26.

Cuddyer had 111 and 108 career and is 29.

Jacobs had 100 last season and 110 for his career and is 27.

Bay had 93 OPS+ last season in a very bad year for him, but a career OPS+ of 129 and is 29.

Winn had 105 and 101 over his career and is 34 (IMO, the closest match to Byrnes hitting, but Byrnes can steal bases).


So I think the "Worse" list, Winn, Cuddyer and Jacobs can really be said to be worse (based on Byrnes' speed). Ethier isn't that much better, but has plenty of time for improvement. And the rest are expected to be stars; if not this year than soon (especially Gordon & Zimmerman).

[korme]

That's a shame. I used to be a quasi Baltimore fan in the late 90s- the Brady Anderson sideburns days

[korme]

And Winn wasn't the #3 last year.

[kingfc22]

Matt Cain is going to lose every game 1-0. SOB!!!