Official 2009-2010 MLB Offseason Thread

[dawgfan]

Originally Posted by DeToxRox

Also, M and Jay's stay busy as the M's trade Morrow to Toronto for League and a prospect.

Seems like a very odd move for Seattle.

I've learned to trust Zdurenciek, so I have to assume the prospect is pretty good.

From a 2010 performance standpoint, there might not be a big difference between Morrow and League - League has the toolset to be a really good reliever with his high groundball rate and high swinging strike rate. Morrow has yet to prove he can be a consistently good SP. But RP's are volatile, and even though League has the FIP to have great results, you're still talking about limited innings (relatively speaking) where bad luck can really skew the numbers.

I'm sad to see Morrow shipped off, as it means the M's didn't get the stud SP out of him they hoped for when he was drafted. But intellectually, I've been prepared for a while now of the likelihood that he'd be dealt, as he's more likely to lose value moving forward than gain it.

Seems unlikely the prospect is Wallace given how hard Toronto worked to get him back, but he's a guy that would make a lot of sense for the M's as he'd slide in as our 1B.

[Ronnie Dobbs2]

Braves must have a hard-on for shitty OFs, as they trade Javier Vazquez for Melky Cabrera (plus a prospect or two, but nothing good as far as I can tell).

[Dr. Sak]

In all seriousness, are the Marlins the 2nd best team in the NL East?

[Ronnie Dobbs2]

Cashman has had one hell of an off-season.

[DaddyTorgo]

Originally Posted by Ronnie Dobbs2

Braves must have a hard-on for shitty OFs, as they trade Javier Vazquez for Melky Cabrera (plus a prospect or two, but nothing good as far as I can tell).

really? that's a fucking giveaway to the yankees. how is JV's contract?

[ISiddiqui]

Holy Fuck!! Are you kidding me, Braves?

[Ronnie Dobbs2]

Contract is 1/$12 or so, I believe. The prospect is Arodys Vizcaino who is very young but done well so far.

[DaddyTorgo]

that's redonkulous.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by ISiddiqui

Holy Fuck!! Are you kidding me, Braves?

Nope, that's what happens when you've got a GM that's in so far over his head he can't see up.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by Ronnie Dobbs2

Contract is 1/$12 or so, I believe. The prospect is Arodys Vizcaino who is very young but done well so far.

ESPN is saying the prospect is Mike Dunn while the Braves throw in Boone Logan, but bloggers in NY seem to be saying Dunn + another prospect (maybe that's where Vizcaino comes in?)

[JonInMiddleGA]

But have no fear Braves fans, we've invited Joe Thurston to camp. Suddenly Greg Norton's plate appearances will look much better.

[wahoomac]

What does this mean for the Braves with Derek Lowe? I was hoping the Braves would trade him, since he was the "worst" of the 6 starters they had, and he had been grumbling about maybe being the odd-man-out (with 3 years $45 million left on his contract). With Vasquez gone, I guess they are still going to have to use Lowe, but now he is pissed off at management for looking to trade him after only one year. Of course, I think he should man-up and get over himself and pitch a little better if he wants to be treated right. Seems like it's getting to be a cluster fuck in Atlanta these days...

[lungs]

Who in their right mind would have traded for Lowe without Atlanta picking up a large part of the contract?

I suppose that doesn't excuse Atlanta for trading Javy Vazquez for nothing all that inspiring.

[Big Fo]

Fuck you Frank Wren. Goddamn.

[Crapshoot]

Jesus Christ, Frank Wren isn't very smart, eh? Surely you could do better for Vasquez, or eat a chunk of Lowe's salary and move him.

Edit: to note, the arm is what BP calls the Yankees #2 prospect, and what BA calls their no 3. I just don't see the appeal of Melky Cabrera to the Braves.

[Chief Rum]

Angels will take on Lowe in exchange for Gary Matthews Jr.

[Galaril]

Originally Posted by miked

The idiot fringe is still there and thriving. I lived in the North End, where a non-white person was about as rare as a Sox World Series win. Most of the idiot fringe has moved out to Revere, Sommerville, and the likes, but it is still very present. My wife mentioned when we live there that everyone seems to joke about how racist the south is compared to Boston, but it is mainly because Boston is still highly segregated.

Anyway, while there is plenty of racism and the Sox have been historically mostly white, nobody cares about color so long as you're hitting.

Yes this is true. I was going to post a longer reply to Bishop but figured what is the point. I have had similar discussions with my own inlaws. I am white, affluent (now) and associated with similar "crowds" as Bishop noted but am slightly older than he and DT 41. I lived in Newton but was born in Worcester and have to say that I found the white collar collar people in Newton shockingly as much if not more bigoted than the blue collar types from the Worcester area though Newton people are obviously more educated. So, the point that just because someone is highly educated and rich makes them more tolerant is ridiculous. YMMV. Does anyone think if Randy Moss was a hard nosed scrappy type white player ala Welker he would of been berated last week by the fans and the media? Anyways, two white guys arguing about racism in Boston is like Tiger Woods and Charlie Sheen discussing the finer points of monogamous relationships.

[DaddyTorgo]

Originally Posted by Galaril

Yes this is true. I was going to post a longer reply to Bishop but figured what is the point. I have had similar discussions with my own inlaws. I am white, affluent (now) and associated with similar "crowds" as Bishop noted but am slightly older than he and DT 41. I lived in Newton but was born in Worcester and have to say that I found the white collar collar people in Newton shockingly as much if not more bigoted than the blue collar types from the Worcester area though Newton people are obviously more educated. So, the point that just because someone is highly educated and rich makes them more tolerant is ridiculous. YMMV. Does anyone think if Randy Moss was a hard nosed scrappy type white player ala Welker he would of been berated last week by the fans and the media? Anyways, two white guys arguing about racism in Boston is like Tiger Woods and Charlie Sheen discussing the finer points of monogamous relationships.

[Galaril]

Originally Posted by DaddyTorgo

I did not by the way mean to insult any of the Boston regulars here like yourself DT or Bishop. In fact, my post was not specifically meant for anyone here but was more a dangerous generalization.

[DaddyTorgo]

Originally Posted by Galaril

I did not by the way mean to insult any of the Boston regulars here like yourself DT or Bishop. My post was not specifically meant for anyone here in fact but more a dangerous generalization.

Oh I know. No worries.

I don't think any of us who post on here from MA necessarily fit into that stereotype actualy. Those are the sort of people who frankly...spend more time at the bars in Southie than they do on their computers.

[Ronnie Dobbs2]

There is definitely something to be said for segregation in Boston. I've never really seen racism out here, but at the same time I don't see a Benetton ad either.

[Karlifornia]

I'm convinced whatever the Giants wind up doing will be a disaster. They'll overpay for Bay and then he'll either get hurt or start his career decline early.

[JS19]

Big things coming out of NY. Mets are close to signing R.A. Dickey to minor league deal.

[BishopMVP]

Originally Posted by Galaril

Yes this is true. I was going to post a longer reply to Bishop but figured what is the point. I have had similar discussions with my own inlaws. I am white, affluent (now) and associated with similar "crowds" as Bishop noted but am slightly older than he and DT 41. I lived in Newton but was born in Worcester and have to say that I found the white collar collar people in Newton shockingly as much if not more bigoted than the blue collar types from the Worcester area though Newton people are obviously more educated. So, the point that just because someone is highly educated and rich makes them more tolerant is ridiculous. YMMV.

(I do find it funny that I'm the one arguing less racism here since my original comment was was pointing out that Mike Cameron's race wouldn't help him amongst the vocal portion of the fanbase, but...)

For the record, in my experience the age thing and where someone grew up is more important than the town rich older people have moved to. Concord is clearly a racist town (against black and hispanic people) on some level, albeit improving, especially given that a certain part of the growth in the 70's/80's between the 95/495 belts was in reaction to school busing - when I was in a 1200 person HS (99-03) I could count the non-METCO black kids on my hands. But A) very few people I knew in HS or from college have ever said or meant anything racist (while I have seen it numerous times at bars or parties by idiots my age from a Revere or Plymouth or Billerica) and B) on the specific point I've just never seen it in my town (or the neighboring ones) against people of Asian descent, who are actually over-represented (while I have seen it numerous times by older bigots from Concord or other rich "white" towns against black and/or hispanic people, and even jewish ones). Or heard about it from any of my asian friends, while I have heard stories from black, hispanic and jewish ones, although hey, YMMV and all that. Self-segregation in housing and the social scene definitely occurs, but it's hard for me to classify that as racism as I've been to predominantly asian, black, hispanic and jewish events and not felt uncomfortable.

It'd also be intriguing to break down the Wes Welker/Randy Moss (or Manny/Jason Bay, which would belie miked's point, or Bonds/other alleged sterois users nationally) dynamic and see how much race has to do with it vs. "high-paid star"/"scrappy underdog" or "answers questions"/"is a dick, particularly to the media", but I have no desire to listen to any idiot who thinks Randy Moss is a worse player for the Patriots than Wes Welker when a large part of Welker getting open is because Moss is double-teamed every play, and lastly let's not pretend the scrappy white underdog is a Boston invention (see: WS MVP David Eckstein, etc). (Also FTR DT, as much as Southie is the go to stereotype, it's actually gentrifying really quickly - just as poor/blue collar white people were pushed out of the North End - between Asians spreading out from the South End and yuppies who want an easy T ride to downtown without the exorbitant costs of the city itself/Cambridge/the outer green line.)

Oh well, let's focus on what's important here - the Yankees just added an SP who averaged 200+ IP and 200 K's a year for the last decade (who will be Type A after the year) for a 4th outfielder and a (very good) single-A pitcher. Plus it probably opens up LF in NYY for Holliday if they want that, and some speculate the $8m in savings for ATL will be used to sign Jason Bay, bumping our compensation for Wagner down to the 2nd round (although we don't lose the Braves 1st-rounder). Let's hope Vasquez regresses hard on ERA - 4 of his last 6 years were 4.42+ - and he did have his worst season in 11 years when pitching for the Yankees previously, but there's very little to like here from a 2010 Red Sox (or Rays/any other AL contender) perspective.

[Karlifornia]

I find this Boston debate interesting. I lived there for a year, but was too young to really be aware of the racism that may or may not exist, but does exist in the places you'd imagine it not to. I had some family that lived in Brockton. Cool place from what I remember. Anyway, that's all I got that subject.

In speaking of black folk, I'm calling a breakout year for Cameron Maybin.

[Logan]

Originally Posted by Karlifornia

In speaking of black folk, I'm calling a breakout year for Cameron Maybin.

His lack of fundamentals will surely do him in.

[DaddyTorgo]

Originally Posted by BishopMVP

(I do find it funny that I'm the one arguing less racism here since my original comment was was pointing out that Mike Cameron's race wouldn't help him amongst the vocal portion of the fanbase, but...)

For the record, in my experience the age thing and where someone grew up is more important than the town rich older people have moved to. Concord is clearly a racist town (against black and hispanic people) on some level, albeit improving, especially given that a certain part of the growth in the 70's/80's between the 95/495 belts was in reaction to school busing - when I was in a 1200 person HS (99-03) I could count the non-METCO black kids on my hands. But A) very few people I knew in HS or from college have ever said or meant anything racist (while I have seen it numerous times at bars or parties by idiots my age from a Revere or Plymouth or Billerica) and B) on the specific point I've just never seen it in my town (or the neighboring ones) against people of Asian descent, who are actually over-represented (while I have seen it numerous times by older bigots from Concord or other rich "white" towns against black and/or hispanic people, and even jewish ones). Or heard about it from any of my asian friends, while I have heard stories from black, hispanic and jewish ones, although hey, YMMV and all that. Self-segregation in housing and the social scene definitely occurs, but it's hard for me to classify that as racism as I've been to predominantly asian, black, hispanic and jewish events and not felt uncomfortable.

It'd also be intriguing to break down the Wes Welker/Randy Moss (or Manny/Jason Bay, which would belie miked's point, or Bonds/other alleged sterois users nationally) dynamic and see how much race has to do with it vs. "high-paid star"/"scrappy underdog" or "answers questions"/"is a dick, particularly to the media", but I have no desire to listen to any idiot who thinks Randy Moss is a worse player for the Patriots than Wes Welker when a large part of Welker getting open is because Moss is double-teamed every play, and lastly let's not pretend the scrappy white underdog is a Boston invention (see: WS MVP David Eckstein, etc). (Also FTR DT, as much as Southie is the go to stereotype, it's actually gentrifying really quickly - just as poor/blue collar white people were pushed out of the North End - between Asians spreading out from the South End and yuppies who want an easy T ride to downtown without the exorbitant costs of the city itself/Cambridge/the outer green line.)

Oh well, let's focus on what's important here - the Yankees just added an SP who averaged 200+ IP and 200 K's a year for the last decade (who will be Type A after the year) for a 4th outfielder and a (very good) single-A pitcher. Plus it probably opens up LF in NYY for Holliday if they want that, and some speculate the $8m in savings for ATL will be used to sign Jason Bay, bumping our compensation for Wagner down to the 2nd round (although we don't lose the Braves 1st-rounder). Let's hope Vasquez regresses hard on ERA - 4 of his last 6 years were 4.42+ - and he did have his worst season in 11 years when pitching for the Yankees previously, but there's very little to like here from a 2010 Red Sox (or Rays/any other AL contender) perspective.

oh i know - i have an ex co-worker who lives on the border of Southie. I was just playing up the stereotype of Southie bars...mainly because I couldn't think of anywhere else to say (although Revere would have worked).

[DaddyTorgo]

the fact that every other team gets themselves over a financial barrel and then is forced to trade good-to-decent players to the Yankeees for crap prospects just to shed salary is disgusting.and irresponsible.

[Logan]

Originally Posted by DaddyTorgo

the fact that every other team gets themselves over a financial barrel and then is forced to trade good-to-decent players to the Yankeees for crap prospects just to shed salary is disgusting.and irresponsible.

Are we talking about Vazquez here?

[DaddyTorgo]

Originally Posted by Logan

Are we talking about Vazquez here?

yeah

[miked]

Obviously the trade of Vazquez signals the Braves believe Hudson to be back in form. I can't believe they picked up his insane option (12M?? 15M??) and didn't pay to get rid of Lowe. Trading Vazquez was horrible, trading him for an older version of Jordan Schaeffer or whoever else they have in AAA is even worse. I mean, I guess that's what happens when you wait for Lackey to be signed, Halladay and Lee to be traded, and all the teams with money to spend have already gotten their pitchers.

They also non-tendered Church, meaning they gave away Francoeur for nothing, and are paying Kenshin 6.7M to be a 5th starter/long reliever. What a dreadful offseason.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Braves sign Troy Glaus to play 1B.
Report: Braves sign Troy Glaus to play first base *| ajc.com

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

Nothing says buzzkill like the announcement that your team has signed a free agent to play centerfield who batted .243 with 2 HR's and 18 RBI's last year.

[DaddyTorgo]

Originally Posted by Mizzou B-ball fan

Nothing says buzzkill like the announcement that your team has signed a free agent to play centerfield who batted .243 with 2 HR's and 18 RBI's last year.

ewwww

[sterlingice]

Originally Posted by Mizzou B-ball fan

Nothing says buzzkill like the announcement that your team has signed a free agent to play centerfield who batted .243 with 2 HR's and 18 RBI's last year.

How about signing a starting catcher who has done the following the last 2 season (.246/.327/.324 and .241/.331/.305) when you have a guy who can did .273/.318/.442 last year? Did I mention the new guy is a 35 year old C and he is signed to a 2 year contract? Good job, GMDM

SI

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

Originally Posted by sterlingice

How about signing a starting catcher who has done the following the last 2 season (.246/.327/.324 and .241/.331/.305) when you have a guy who can did .273/.318/.442 last year? Did I mention the new guy is a 35 year old C and he is signed to a 2 year contract? Good job, GMDM

SI

Yeah, I know. The notion behind the signing is that his defense should save us quite a few runs given our passed ball issues last year, but you're doing to have to do some major stat crunching to justify the decrease in offense that move brings in. I hope it ends up being some fantastic surprise, but I'm not holding my breath.

[lungs]

Heh, Royals fans, have fun with Jason Kendall. His supposed top attributes involve his handling of a pitching and making contact as a hitter.

To brush one thing aside rather quickly, sure Kendall puts a bat on the ball but one quick glance at his batting line will tell you flat out that the guy can't hit.

And if he called such a good game, why the hell did the Brewers have one of the worst pitching staffs in all of baseball last year?

To make matters worse, he insists on playing every single day. He must have naked pictures of every manager he's played for because I guarantee you the backup catcher for KC will disappear next year.

Look on the bright side, in KC at least you have the DH so it's not like having two pitchers batting in your lineup. Then again, if Yuniesky Betancourt is starting at SS......

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

Originally Posted by lungs

Heh, Royals fans, have fun with Jason Kendall. His supposed top attributes involve his handling of a pitching and making contact as a hitter.

To brush one thing aside rather quickly, sure Kendall puts a bat on the ball but one quick glance at his batting line will tell you flat out that the guy can't hit.

And if he called such a good game, why the hell did the Brewers have one of the worst pitching staffs in all of baseball last year?

To make matters worse, he insists on playing every single day. He must have naked pictures of every manager he's played for because I guarantee you the backup catcher for KC will disappear next year.

Look on the bright side, in KC at least you have the DH so it's not like having two pitchers batting in your lineup. Then again, if Yuniesky Betancourt is starting at SS......

There's no need to beat us like a rented mule when we openly admit that our team sucks.

[dawgfan]

Originally Posted by DeToxRox

Also, M and Jay's stay busy as the M's trade Morrow to Toronto for League and a prospect.

Seems like a very odd move for Seattle.

Interesting post by Dave Cameron today at the USSMariner blog - his speculation is that the Morrow for League/Chavez deal was actually part of the Lee/Halladay/etc. mega-deal, but announced later to work out some final details (especially considering the 72-hour window Philly had to negotiate with Halladay).

Be interesting to hear of Jack Z confirms this or not, but the theory makes some sense.

http://ussmariner.com/2009/12/23/cho...wn-conclusion/

[RedKingGold]

I approve of the Braves trade.

[Logan]

Bay to the Mets - 4 years, $16.5MM per. Announcement next week.

[Arles]

I like the move for the Mets. Hopefully, this means Holliday will sign with the Cards soon.

[Galaril]

Geez 16.5M a year for Bay? Glad the Sox didn't give him that.

[DaddyTorgo]

seriously

[ISiddiqui]

Well it is only $1.5 mil a year more than Red Sox offered... and to franchises to the Mets and Red Sox, $1.5 mil a year is nothing much.

[JPhillips]

Given the revolt of the fanbase over not getting any pitching they pretty much had to sign Bay.

[Ramzavail]

Lets see him try to pull one out of Citifield.

[Ronnie Dobbs2]

Originally Posted by ISiddiqui

Well it is only $1.5 mil a year more than Red Sox offered... and to franchises to the Mets and Red Sox, $1.5 mil a year is nothing much.

I think the real difference is the "easily vesting" 5th year.

http://twitter.com/nyp_joelsherman/status/7169369634

[Dr. Sak]

The Mets just went from being 18 GB to 15 GB the Phillies next year.

[Atocep]

The Mets have no choice really but to go for broke the next 2-3 years. I'd rather have seen Holliday come to NY, but I'll wait and see what else Omar fucks up before I judge this deal.

Considering the fact the Mets aren't going to have anywhere near as much bad luck with injuries next year and the Phillies offense is likely to regress, I think the Mets are probably going to be overlooked heading into next season. The Phillies are definitely the favorites, but with a healthy Beltran, Reyes, Wright, Santana, KRod, and Bay it doesn't take a hell of a lot more to at least get into position to take the wild card.