Mizzou Player Strike

[Grover]

Missouri Football Players Go On Strike To Force Removal Of School President [UPDATE]

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by Grover

Missouri Football Players Go On Strike To Force Removal Of School President [UPDATE]

The door is over there gentlemen (and ladies, presumably). You don't want to play & live up to your free ride then you probably ought to be able to find on the same highway you rode in on & head back out the same way.

[panerd]

Originally Posted by JonInMiddleGA

The door is over there gentlemen (and ladies, presumably). You don't want to play & live up to your free ride then you probably ought to be able to find on the same highway you rode in on & head back out the same way.

Your approach might cause some problems with future recruiting. Thas been going on around campus for a while now so I find the protest during a 4-5 season a little disingenuous. Ever since the Ferguson fiasco the campus has been brewing with a lot of pissed off people on both sides.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by panerd

Your approach might cause some problems with future recruiting. Thas been going on around campus for a while now so I find the protest during a 4-5 season a little disingenuous. Ever since the Ferguson fiasco this campus has been brewing with a lot of pissed off people on both sides.

Anybody having a hissy over the Ferguson situation is someone any community - university or otherwise - would be better off without.

[Solecismic]

Originally Posted by panerd

Your approach might cause some problems with future recruiting. Thas been going on around campus for a while now so I find the protest during a 4-5 season a little disingenuous. Ever since the Ferguson fiasco the campus has been brewing with a lot of pissed off people on both sides.

I read the MSM story about this, and it talks about a slow response to swastika-drawing this week. Are African-American students now showing solidarity with Jewish students? If so, that's interesting. It was largely Jewish kids who came down from the north during the '60s to march with them. I've always wondered why the two groups weren't a lot closer.

But I'd imagine the SEC might have a problem with forfeited games. And since it's looking like 14 teams is too many for a major conference, I wouldn't want to be the school that causes that kind of a problem. Sounds like the president's days are numbered (as in expect an announcement Monday).

[panerd]

Originally Posted by JonInMiddleGA

Anybody having a hissy over the Ferguson situation is someone any community - university or otherwise - would be better off without.

Just curious what percentage of college football recruits you estimate are on each side of the Ferguson issue? I think it would make sense why this isn't a simple cut them all situation.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by panerd

Just curious what percentage of college football recruits you estimate are on each side of the Ferguson issue?

I don't think all that highly of the intelligence or moral character of an exceptionally high percentage of college football recruits. Perhaps, in the grand scheme, universities would be better served to simply move on without them.

At was pointed out earlier, 4-5 and coming off an ass-whooping sure is a convenient time to suddenly go all social crusader.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by Solecismic

I read the MSM story about this, and it talks about a slow response to swastika-drawing this week. Are African-American students now showing solidarity with Jewish students?

I almost have to assume this is a rhetorical question.

[nol]

Originally Posted by Solecismic

I read the MSM story about this, and it talks about a slow response to swastika-drawing this week. Are African-American students now showing solidarity with Jewish students? If so, that's interesting. It was largely Jewish kids who came down from the north during the '60s to march with them. I've always wondered why the two groups weren't a lot closer.

But I'd imagine the SEC might have a problem with forfeited games. And since it's looking like 14 teams is too many for a major conference, I wouldn't want to be the school that causes that kind of a problem. Sounds like the president's days are numbered (as in expect an announcement Monday).

As has been previously documented in a few other threads, the swastika and the Confederate flag have been used interchangeably on both sides of the pond as symbols of white supremacy. This particular act of vandalism was carried out by someone who smeared their own shit on a bathroom wall, so I'd suspect it was due to a swastika being easier to make than the stars and bars.

[Ben E Lou]

Originally Posted by panerd

Just curious what percentage of college football recruits you estimate are on each side of the Ferguson issue? I think it would make sense why this isn't a simple cut them all situation.

Originally Posted by JonInMiddleGA

I don't think all that highly of the intelligence or moral character of an exceptionally high percentage of college football recruits. Perhaps, in the grand scheme, universities would be better served to simply move on without them.

Regardless of which side one comes down on this one, this tension is where this Mizzou thing gets...interesting. Revoke scholarships, kick them off the team, or whatever "they-broke-their-contract" response you want, and--because of the recruiting issue--your football program is toast. A player tweeted that the coaches are standing with them--"even the white coaches." If they ever want to be successful in CFB, do they really even have a choice? Don't voice support of the players in this situation, and every rival coach you ever recruit against for the rest of your career will gladly remind every black player you try to recruit of how you proved yourself to be an insensitive/racist/anti-player guy when you were at Mizzou.

I wonder if the players will be willing to negotiate. It seems that if not and he resigns, they've created a blueprint for college athletes to get whatever they want whenever they want.

Yes, I'm very interested to see how this one plays out.

[Ben E Lou]

New thread created.

[Dutch]

Missouri Tigers football players to strike until embattled Tim Wolfe resigns

Can somebody explain what Tim Wolfe did wrong? This particle article's explanation is shit.

[AlexB]

Originally Posted by nol

As has been previously documented in a few other threads, the swastika and the Confederate flag have been used interchangeably on both sides of the pond as symbols of white supremacy. This particular act of vandalism was carried out by someone who smeared their own shit on a bathroom wall, so I'd suspect it was due to a swastika being easier to make than the stars and bars.

Both the subject and writing material would also seem to back up Jon's point about the level of intelligence and character, in this case at least

[Dutch]

Originally Posted by Dutch

Can somebody explain what Tim Wolfe did wrong? This particle article's explanation is shit.

Um, btw, no pun intended.

[Ben E Lou]

Originally Posted by Dutch

Can somebody explain what Tim Wolfe did wrong? This particle article's explanation is shit.

The main complaint seems to be more about inaction than action, though a comment he made to some students that was caught on video seemed to fuel the fire. He was asked something like "define systemic racism" and he said something along the lines of "systemic racism is when you think you haven't gotten a fair shake."

[Dutch]

Hmmm, I guess where I'm coming from is...I'd fire a racist. I'd fire a white-supremacist. I'd fire somebody for smearing crap on a wall. I might even fire him for making a bad decision after analyzing the situation.

I won't fire him because he took a week to address a concern. I won't fire him because some political activist group suggested I should fire him.

I'm just trying to get to the meat of the argument and I'm not getting the information I need. The video of him saying something poor regarding "Systematic Racism" suggests something sinister, but what if it takes me a week to get the info I need to truly make an informed opinion?

So for this dude, was he doing his due-diligence or was he sweeping it under the rug. That's the question I basically have. Then I could get him on negligence of his duties (if it's the later).

[Abe Sargent]

I just did some reading and found out there are more than just some athletes and folks, he's getting pressure from academic circles on campus as well.

[Abe Sargent]

Originally Posted by Dutch

So for this dude, was he doing his due-diligence or was he sweeping it under the rug. That's the question I basically have. Then I could get him on negligence of his duties (if it's the later).

There's no way due diligence on a CC campus for something easy like vandalism and a bias incident on top of that takes that long Most colleges have bias teams that respond extremely quickly to incidents, and with very high ups on it - it's a university standard. A week for that is way too long.

Plus it's long on the research end. We had some unfortunate vandalism in my residence hall over Halloween weekend. On Monday morning, I reviewed the tapes, printed out the suspects, asked around until I found out who it was, documented it, and then sent out an e-mail to my building letting then know what had happened, and how we had found those responsible. On Monday. The first work day back. It's highly unlikely that a high profile bias-case takes longer.

[panerd]

Originally Posted by Abe Sargent

I just did some reading and found out there are more than just some athletes and folks, he's getting pressure from academic circles on campus as well.

Yes. This guy has hit the mother lode of the wrong people to piss off. There are racial issues that are certainly getting more play due to Ferguson, planned parenthood issues with the faculty, and in a completely different realm he tried taking apart the Greek system for drinking and sexual assault problems on campus. (More the channcellor on this one but I'm guessing they will all go) So let's just say he has very few friends. Faculty... No. Athletic department... No. Greek system... No. Don't think he will last through today.

With all that said none of these issues seems much different than the Mizzou I and to in the early 90's or a lot college campuses across the country. But in the gotcha social media world (sometimes good and sometimes bad) this is the job you have now as university president.

[Dutch]

Originally Posted by Abe Sargent

There's no way due diligence on a CC campus for something easy like vandalism and a bias incident on top of that takes that long Most colleges have bias teams that respond extremely quickly to incidents, and with very high ups on it - it's a university standard. A week for that is way too long.

Plus it's long on the research end. We had some unfortunate vandalism in my residence hall over Halloween weekend. On Monday morning, I reviewed the tapes, printed out the suspects, asked around until I found out who it was, documented it, and then sent out an e-mail to my building letting then know what had happened, and how we had found those responsible. On Monday. The first work day back. It's highly unlikely that a high profile bias-case takes longer.

What did the president of the university say about it?

[JPhillips]

Originally Posted by Ben E Lou

I wonder if the players will be willing to negotiate. It seems that if not and he resigns, they've created a blueprint for college athletes to get whatever they want whenever they want.

Yes, I'm very interested to see how this one plays out.

You can't blame the students for realizing that they have all power. This is the price for making athletics the dominant program on campus.

[Dutch]

Originally Posted by JPhillips

You can't blame the students for realizing that they have all power. This is the price for making athletics the dominant program on campus.

And why I'm pretty sure that College Athletics (that make millions) need to either be restructured as a true school resource for more real (nationally needed) degrees like engineering and the sciences or just let it go and let Pro Footbal, Basketball, Baseball, and Hockey create feeder leagues for U21's where these athletes get paid for their efforts.

[TroyF]

Originally Posted by Ben E Lou

Regardless of which side one comes down on this one, this tension is where this Mizzou thing gets...interesting. Revoke scholarships, kick them off the team, or whatever "they-broke-their-contract" response you want, and--because of the recruiting issue--your football program is toast. A player tweeted that the coaches are standing with them--"even the white coaches." If they ever want to be successful in CFB, do they really even have a choice? Don't voice support of the players in this situation, and every rival coach you ever recruit against for the rest of your career will gladly remind every black player you try to recruit of how you proved yourself to be an insensitive/racist/anti-player guy when you were at Mizzou.

I wonder if the players will be willing to negotiate. It seems that if not and he resigns, they've created a blueprint for college athletes to get whatever they want whenever they want.

Yes, I'm very interested to see how this one plays out.

This was/is where I am. It's fascinating on so many levels.

There is zero doubt how this is going to play out. The prez is going to resign. Not just because of his football team, but because this involves race on any level and the fact he has no support from anyone else. That will always equal instant death.

We are now an outrage society and no public figure can survive too much of it.

[JPhillips]

Originally Posted by Dutch

And why I'm pretty sure that College Athletics (that make millions) need to either be restructured as a true school resource for more real (nationally needed) degrees like engineering and the sciences or just let it go and let Pro Footbal, Basketball, Baseball, and Hockey create feeder leagues for U21's where these athletes get paid for their efforts.

This.

I think the athletes should be paid, but I also think colleges, especially public colleges, shouldn't be subsidizing athletics. The soccer system in Europe generally works well. If teams want to develop athletes, let them foot the bill.

[Dutch]

Originally Posted by JPhillips

This.

I think the athletes should be paid.

Agreed. And students should not be paid. What an amazing conflict of interest that creates.

What's next after this most recent racial divide? It won't be long before we get the "old rich white folks are slaving black kids" mantra and at that point, the system will start to meltdown and we'll get national support for professional development leagues and we can stop with this farce of giving athletes educations that they aren't apply themselves towards anyway.

[nol]

Originally Posted by Abe Sargent

There's no way due diligence on a CC campus for something easy like vandalism and a bias incident on top of that takes that long Most colleges have bias teams that respond extremely quickly to incidents, and with very high ups on it - it's a university standard. A week for that is way too long.

Exactly. Think of how quickly Oklahoma shut down that racist frat.

[Dutch]

Originally Posted by nol

Exactly. Think of how quickly Oklahoma shut down that racist frat.

That was obvious as hell though...

[digamma]

Originally Posted by JPhillips

This.

I think the athletes should be paid, but I also think colleges, especially public colleges, shouldn't be subsidizing athletics. The soccer system in Europe generally works well. If teams want to develop athletes, let them foot the bill.

Should colleges subsidize any student activities?

[Dutch]

Additional Info...

Brandon Kiley on Twitter: "Here they are - the list of demands from #ConcernedStudent1950. https://t.co/Ofev5jjra1"

http://chancellor.missouri.edu/news/...lors-response/

http://www.columbiatribune.com/news/...07ef14917.html

[BYU 14]

In regard to items 5 and 6

5 - Shouldn't faculty and staff be hired on basis of merit and not forced affirmative action? In order to meet this demand do you let current staff go, who may be every bit deserving or more deserving of those brought in to replace them? Sorry, nothing should be done just to increase a certain demographic. It should be based on qualifications and those that have done nothing to warrant dismissal to accommodate this should be penalized.

6 - Doesn't the University already have programs like this in place for ALL marginalized students regardless of ethnicity? I showed my wife this demand and her first thought is it actually has a negative affect. That it is almost insinuating that some ethnicities are not capable of succeeding themselves without having access to assistance above and beyond that of any other group of students.

[JPhillips]

Originally Posted by digamma

Should colleges subsidize any student activities?

Fair point. They can have equal the subsidies for Sibling Weekend.

[JPhillips]

Originally Posted by BYU 14

In regard to items 5 and 6

5 - Shouldn't faculty and staff be hired on basis of merit and not forced affirmative action? In order to meet this demand do you let current staff go, who may be every bit deserving or more deserving of those brought in to replace them? Sorry, nothing should be done just to increase a certain demographic. It should be based on qualifications and those that have done nothing to warrant dismissal to accommodate this should be penalized.

That's assuming there's an obvious better candidate for every position. Having done academic hiring, there's a lot of similarity in candidates. Occasionally you find one that's obviously better, but most often you're making final decisions based on specialty interests of the candidate and/or personality.

That being said, I don't know if that's a good remedy at UM as I don't know nearly enough about the demographics of faculty/staff.

[BYU 14]

And dola on the "white male privilege" This is such bullshit IMO. Does white privilege exist? Yes, but the correct definition should be rich male privilege, which certainly encompasses mostly white males, but certainly does not encompass a whole fucking demographic. Maybe word your demand a bit better to capture the where the true privilege benefits a select few and hurts many others regardless of race.

I have certainly not gotten to where I am in my career because of privilege, it has been earned over the 25 year career in my industry. I have no problem talking about tough racial issues and am very involved in them.

Lets but down on the stereotypes that encompass such a broad swath of people and focus on where the privilege truly exists.

[Dutch]

Originally Posted by BYU 14

In regard to items 5 and 6

5 - Shouldn't faculty and staff be hired on basis of merit and not forced affirmative action? In order to meet this demand do you let current staff go, who may be every bit deserving or more deserving of those brought in to replace them? Sorry, nothing should be done just to increase a certain demographic. It should be based on qualifications and those that have done nothing to warrant dismissal to accommodate this should be penalized.

6 - Doesn't the University already have programs like this in place for ALL marginalized students regardless of ethnicity? I showed my wife this demand and her first thought is it actually has a negative affect. That it is almost insinuating that some ethnicities are not capable of succeeding themselves without having access to assistance above and beyond that of any other group of students.

With regard to #1, the dude must admit his "white male privilege" or they will not accept him staying employed at the university. That's some crazy (concernedstudent) 1950's white-folk logic right there.

[RainMaker]

Originally Posted by Dutch

Additional Info...

Brandon Kiley on Twitter: "Here they are - the list of demands from #ConcernedStudent1950. https://t.co/Ofev5jjra1"

http://chancellor.missouri.edu/news/...lors-response/

http://www.columbiatribune.com/news/...07ef14917.html

Why not just have them teach each other? Seems like they feel they are smarter than everyone else.

[Dutch]

Originally Posted by BYU 14

And dola on the "white male privilege" This is such bullshit IMO. Does white privilege exist? Yes, but the correct definition should be rich male privilege, which certainly encompasses mostly white males, but certainly does not encompass a whole fucking demographic. Maybe word your demand a bit better to capture the where the true privilege benefits a select few and hurts many others regardless of race.

I have certainly not gotten to where I am in my career because of privilege, it has been earned over the 25 year career in my industry. I have no problem talking about tough racial issues and am very involved in them.

Lets but down on the stereotypes that encompass such a broad swath of people and focus on where the privilege truly exists.

The demands are being made by very young people with no life experiences, they aren't perfect.

[BYU 14]

Originally Posted by JPhillips

That's assuming there's an obvious better candidate for every position. Having done academic hiring, there's a lot of similarity in candidates. Occasionally you find one that's obviously better, but most often you're making final decisions based on specialty interests of the candidate and/or personality.

That being said, I don't know if that's a good remedy at UM as I don't know nearly enough about the demographics of faculty/staff.

And I totally agree with and support this, again as long as everyone is given an equal opportunity, it meets the needs (not wants) of the institution and you are not removing someone just as qualified, or more so for the sake of increasing a certain demographic.

[BYU 14]

Originally Posted by Dutch

The demands are being made by very young people with no life experiences, they aren't perfect.

I know, nor are any of us, which is why this should be a point of discussion and not a demand.

And please don't misinterpret my responses as dismissive to these students as I know they bring up some very real and important issues. I completely support this overall, just feel they are a bit off base on some things.

[JPhillips]

Originally Posted by RainMaker

Why not just have them teach each other? Seems like they feel they are smarter than everyone else.

That's just college students these days.

[Dutch]

Originally Posted by BYU 14

I know, nor are any of us, which is why this should be a point of discussion and not a demand.

Agreed.

[Dutch]

Originally Posted by JPhillips

That's just college students these days.

Maybe we can replace the teachers with kiosks...

[NobodyHere]

Originally Posted by Dutch

Maybe we can replace the teachers with kiosks...

I've had online classes that were pretty much like that.

[Dutch]

Originally Posted by NobodyHere

I've had online classes that were pretty much like that.

hehe...me too.

[RainMaker]

Originally Posted by JPhillips

That's just college students these days.

The whole thing is weird. Not specific to this but all over the country. 20 year olds telling professors how to teach their classes and administrators how to run their schools. If you're smarter than them, why are you spending money to go to college?

[molson]

I'm not sure what any of those allegations have to do with the president, but it's pretty shocking to me that students are still acting like that. I know there's been different examples of stuff like that at fraternities, like that Oklahoma deal, but it just all reminds me of how sheltered I am. I've never seen or heard anything like that in my life, outward racial harassment, and I went to college 20 years ago at a fairly diverse university, and went to an even more diverse high school. I know white privilege and institutional racism was and is a part of schools everywhere, but its disturbing how many young people are still in the mindset of individually deciding to use racial slurs to harass people. And the student who apparently made a swastika in a bathroom out of shit - that's some commitment to their way of thinking.

[panerd]

Originally Posted by molson

I'm not sure what any of those allegations have to do with the president, but it's pretty shocking to me that students are still acting like that. I know there's been different examples of stuff like that at fraternities, like that Oklahoma deal, but it just all reminds me of how sheltered I am. I've never seen or heard anything like that in my life, outward racial harassment, and I went to college 20 years ago at a fairly diverse university, and went to an even more diverse high school. I know white privilege and institutional racism was and is a part of schools everywhere, but its disturbing how many young people are still in the mindset of individually deciding to use racial slurs to harass people. And the student who apparently made a swastika in a bathroom out of shit - that's some commitment to their way of thinking.

There are St. Louis and Kansas City which have large black populations. White populations in the counties of both cities that are somewhat mixed on racial attitudes. (I think both voted for Obama in both elections). And then there is the rest of the state. I guess Columbia is a tiny bit liberal but that is only because of the students and not the residents. None of these stories surprise me and this was what Mizzou was like when I was there. You actually would have probably created a shitstorm of controversy if you do this when you are one game removed from the national title game when an openly gay player. Twitter might have exploded.

But again I ask why now? Why not during their top ten ranked seasons the past two years? Why not when they were highly ranked and 3-0 early in the year. It is just a big eye roll to me that they are now fired up about racial issues after rolling off five losses including an ass kicking Thursday night.

[Dutch]

including an ass kicking Thursday night.

I know right, now they act all Bulldog-ish?

[nol]

Originally Posted by panerd

But again I ask why now? Why not during their top ten ranked seasons the past two years? Why not when they were highly ranked and 3-0 early in the year. It is just a big eye roll to me that they are now fired up about racial issues after rolling off five losses including an ass kicking Thursday night.

Because it's in solidarity with a larger student movement that began in response to recent events. Pretty crazy that African-American football players could have concerns beyond scoring touchdowns and making panerd happy with a win every Saturday, but that's the world we live in.

[Ben E Lou]

Originally Posted by Ben E Lou

A player tweeted that the coaches are standing with them--"even the white coaches." If they ever want to be successful in CFB, do they really even have a choice? Don't voice support of the players in this situation, and every rival coach you ever recruit against for the rest of your career will gladly remind every black player you try to recruit of how you proved yourself to be an insensitive/racist/anti-player guy when you were at Mizzou.

The Mizzou Family stands as one. We are united. We are behind our players. #ConcernedStudent1950 GP pic.twitter.com/fMHbPPTTKl

— Coach Gary Pinkel (@GaryPinkel) November 8, 2015

[digamma]

Wow. That's fairly powerful.