NFL Coaching Changes Thread

miami_fan · 12-29-2007, 08:50 PM

With the season ending, I figured I would start a NFL thread.

http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/news/story?id=3173002

Quote:

The Detroit Lions are expected to fire offensive coordinator Mike Martz after Sunday's season finale against Green Bay, the Los Angeles Times reported on its Web site.

The newspaper, citing multiple sources familiar with the situation, said the Lions will replace the veteran coach with receivers coach Kippy Brown. ESPN NFL analyst Chris Mortensen confirmed the report Saturday night.

The little blotch on Martz's resume shouldn't be enough, however, to keep him unemployed for long, The Times said.

Martz will likely be pursued by the struggling San Francisco 49ers as a replacement for current offensive coordinator Jim Hostler. The 49ers are apparently turning to Martz because of his familiarity with the NFC West and successful pedigree as coach of the St. Louis Rams (2000-2005), the paper reported.

Martz led St. Louis to the playoffs in four of his five full seasons, including a Super Bowl after the 2001 season, and helped the franchise win the 2000 Super Bowl as offensive coordinator. The Rams went 51-29 in the regular season and 54-33 overall during his five full seasons as head coach.

St. Louis ranked among the NFL's top 10 teams in total offense in six of the past seven years, ranking first from 1999-2001. The Rams' passing offense hasn't ranked below fifth in the league since 1999, and was first from 1999-2001.

The Lions, 7-8 going into Sunday's road game, rank near the bottom in several key offensive statistical categories, including rushing and interceptions. They have lost six of their last seven games. The Lions have more interceptions (20) than passing touchdowns (18), a major reason they are in third place in the NFC North.

Martz, 56, has been with the Lions since early 2006, when then-new head coach Rod Marinelli brought him aboard as part of his first staff in Detroit.

Cringer · 12-29-2007, 08:57 PM

Yup, getting rid of Martz is the last piece of the puzzle for Detroit.

Just like the Bengals only need to get rid of Chad Johnson to get back to the playoffs.

Passacaglia · 12-29-2007, 10:01 PM

Fire Martz ftw1

rjolley · 12-29-2007, 10:14 PM

So, firing Martz and keeping Millen is the best for the Lions?

As a Bears fan, I'm not complaining about keeping Millen around, but still...

Brownkeg8 · 12-29-2007, 10:18 PM

Funny how when they were 6-2 he was a genius!

Abe Sargent · 12-29-2007, 10:22 PM

Man, I wouldn't fire Martz after the Lions improved this yera. Even with the collapse they were a better offense post-Martz.

QuikSand · 12-29-2007, 10:25 PM

Fascinating. Keeping Martz calling plays and not making "decisions" just seems like the best of all possible worlds. It would be just so...well...so Detroit of them to do this, and see Martz walk off into another situation where he really elevates the offense and team.

korme · 12-29-2007, 10:29 PM

Marvin Lewis was quoted as wanting to blow the Bengals up, let me find the quotes:

Question: Was there a sense even before training camp that things weren't looking good?
Answer: It's been (that way) all the time. We've struggled with guys who are too much worried about what they make or what the next guy makes. That's hard to overcome, and we've had to deal with it for two years now. Until they get it figured out that that's not the way winning teams operate…
It's time for us to blow the whole thing up and start from scratch. We need to empty these shelves, empty these offices and start from scratch.
Q: When you say blow it up…

A: We've got to start from scratch. We have to blow it up and empty everything. Just like new people walking in this door and go from there. That's the only way we're going to shake away from the cobwebs. We've established a certain plateau or work ethic and we've got to move beyond that.

Hopefully ownership doesn't listen to his desperation and fires him. Despite all the underachieving, we still have tons of legitimate talent and scraping all that we've built in the past 3-4 years would be, for lack of a better word, refuckintarded.

Cringer · 12-29-2007, 10:29 PM

BTW, was anyone else expecting miami_fan to start this off by talking about a certain Dolphn coach?

Cringer · 12-29-2007, 10:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shorty3281

Marvin Lewis was quoted as wanting to blow the Bengals up, let me find the quotes:

Question: Was there a sense even before training camp that things weren't looking good?
Answer: It's been (that way) all the time. We've struggled with guys who are too much worried about what they make or what the next guy makes. That's hard to overcome, and we've had to deal with it for two years now. Until they get it figured out that that's not the way winning teams operate…
It's time for us to blow the whole thing up and start from scratch. We need to empty these shelves, empty these offices and start from scratch.
Q: When you say blow it up…

A: We've got to start from scratch. We have to blow it up and empty everything. Just like new people walking in this door and go from there. That's the only way we're going to shake away from the cobwebs. We've established a certain plateau or work ethic and we've got to move beyond that.

Hopefully ownership doesn't listen to his desperation and fires him. Despite all the underachieving, we still have tons of legitimate talent and scraping all that we've built in the past 3-4 years would be, for lack of a better word, refuckintarded.

So he builds it up a little, then the team starts to return to their losing ways under his continued watch, and it is everyone else's fault? Nice. Yeah fire the guy. Keep Chad Johnson.

korme · 12-29-2007, 11:07 PM

Marvin's been here for 5 years. We've got 3 8-8 seasons, 1 winning season and 1 losing. Just because we were the joke of the league before he arrived doesn't mean we should settle for mediocrity- not with the offense we have.

Chad is not a problem. Local media really has ripped into him this year, and people always were saying he was having quiet games, but with such a 'lackluster' year, with 1 game to play, he's got 89 catches (more than last year), and 1309 yards- he had 1369 last year and led the league.

The bottom line is he isn't replacable. The fans love him. Getting rid of him would be stupid.

korme · 12-29-2007, 11:08 PM

BTW Cringer, re-reading your post, now I'm not sure if you were being sarcastic (which was why I replied) or not.

Chief Rum · 12-29-2007, 11:50 PM

Marvin Lewis needs to go not because of issues on offense, which was just fine, but because A) his defense never improved (despite his resume with the Ravens), and B) management seems to have a serious issue recognizing players with character and attitude issues and staying away from them.

As for Martz, I can't stand the guy, but he's not the reason they fell apart. Kitna always has been an interception waiting to happen. Throw him into offense like the Rams ran, and what do you think is going to happen? One thing Martz is guilty of--he abandons the run way too easy, so it's his fault they did so poorly running the ball (although once again Millen fails here because he never bothered to acquire an actual horse back for simply running the ball; Tatum Bell and Kevin Jones are more quick backs, and Duckett wasn't ever good enough for the role).

larrymcg421 · 12-29-2007, 11:57 PM

Wait wait wait. The Lions have fired Martz and replaced him with....

Kippy Brown!

Please allow me to begin a chorus of laughing that will surely continue as other Dolphins fans find this thread.

Bahahahahaha!

stevew · 12-30-2007, 12:08 AM

TJ Douche is way underpaid, and there's no way he should report to camp next year without a new contract. It's almost like Palmer hates him or something, with the rediculous throws that lead to TJ getting decapitated. I've seen the guy take some man sized shots on a regular basis. He's a top flight WR,

The bengals defense has been embarassing, way too many good picks invested into the squad for them to suck that bad. It's like so weird how Billick is some "offensive genius" who's teams suck at offense and are great at defense, and how Lewis is basically the polar opposite. I still think he should get 1-2 more years though, they could at least attempt to de-turdify the roster, and bring in a better front seven over the next 2 years. Hell, they only have 21 sacks all year, last year Smith and Gaethers combined for 19.

Brownkeg8 · 12-30-2007, 12:15 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by larrymcg421

Wait wait wait. The Lions have fired Martz and replaced him with....

Kippy Brown!

Please allow me to begin a chorus of laughing that will surely continue as other Dolphins fans find this thread.

Bahahahahaha!

Where's Wayne Fontes when you need him?

Jas_lov · 12-30-2007, 12:20 AM

The following head coaches need to go: Marvin Lewis, Brian Billick, Herm Edwards, and Cam Cameron. Any more to add to the list? Also, the following coach should win nfl coach of the year: Mike McCarthy.

Cringer · 12-30-2007, 12:37 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shorty3281

BTW Cringer, re-reading your post, now I'm not sure if you were being sarcastic (which was why I replied) or not.

I was not being sarcastic about you and what you were saying. I was more sarcastic about Lewis and his view of things being dumb.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shorty3281

Marvin's been here for 5 years. We've got 3 8-8 seasons, 1 winning season and 1 losing. Just because we were the joke of the league before he arrived doesn't mean we should settle for mediocrity- not with the offense we have.

Chad is not a problem. Local media really has ripped into him this year, and people always were saying he was having quiet games, but with such a 'lackluster' year, with 1 game to play, he's got 89 catches (more than last year), and 1309 yards- he had 1369 last year and led the league.

The bottom line is he isn't replacable. The fans love him. Getting rid of him would be stupid.

Chad should stay, the local media should go. I know he hasn't talked to the local media all year correct? See, the main reason I know that is he goes onto The Afternoon Blitz on Sirius NFL Radio every Friday. Yesterday he was on for 30 minutes and it was frickin' great! Just him going on about how he clearly needs to be shipped out of town since he is the problem. The hosts would say "What about the defense though?" He would say "No, it's not them, it is me." He also sounded pretty bitter (though he said he wasn't) that no one (Marvin Lewis) has ever come out and said Chad Johnson was not the problem with the team. The last month or two of listening to him every Friday has made me like the guy.

DeToxRox · 12-30-2007, 12:42 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jas_lov

The following head coaches need to go: Marvin Lewis, Brian Billick, Herm Edwards, and Cam Cameron. Any more to add to the list? Also, the following coach should win nfl coach of the year: Mike McCarthy.

Did he go 16-0? Because if he didn't then no, he shouldn't.

Cringer · 12-30-2007, 12:49 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DeToxRox

Did he go 16-0? Because if he didn't then no, he shouldn't.

He is going to get a lot of votes. And was going to win it. Now? Ehhhh, not so much.

Abe Sargent · 12-30-2007, 12:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DeToxRox

Did he go 16-0? Because if he didn't then no, he shouldn't.

Coach of the Yera has to be about more than record, and it is. Let me ask you this; which is the harder job?

Taking a team with 8 pro bowlers this year including a future hall of fame QB who has already won three super bowl to 16-0 in the regular season despite a rollover divison; or

Taking a team with no one elected to the pro bowl, and one guy made it in because someone ahead of him was several injured and taking that team to 11-4 in a crowed AFC and one of the hardest divisions in football.

I don;t think you or I could say that Jack Del Rio of the Jaguars was a better coach then Bellichick of the Patriots, but you can;t say with that coaches like Del Rio and McCarthy shouldn't be in the argument, especially since Del Rio and McCarthy didn't cost their organization a first round pick. How do you weigh that, because it is a part of the coach's actions this year?

DeToxRox · 12-30-2007, 12:55 AM

Martz leaving Detroit isn't a big loss. The problem is Marinelli can't obviously control him judging by the fact he let him have three games where Detroit ran the ball under three times so it's better to just let him go and see if Marinelli can do anything with an OC he's on the same page as.

And TBH, next year the Lions are a 6 win team. Kitna is a year older, Shaun Rogers is on his way out and the team has shown a complete inability to draft and sign FA's.

Hell, I predict right now Jon Kitna will not be the Lions QB next year.

Jas_lov · 12-30-2007, 12:55 AM

I do think McCarthy deserves it. He took the youngest team in the league and led them to a 12-3 record pending tomorrow's result. Bellichick has that whole spy gate thing hanging over his head so I think they'll go with the guy who did it the right way, Mike McCarthy. I don't even care that much about the spy gate scandal, but don't you think that will cost him some votes?

DeToxRox · 12-30-2007, 12:57 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Anxiety

Coach of the Yera has to be about more than record, and it is. Let me ask you this; which is the harder job?

Taking a team with 8 pro bowlers this year including a future hall of fame QB who has already won three super bowl to 16-0 in the regular season despite a rollover divison; or

Taking a team with no one elected to the pro bowl, and one guy made it in because someone ahead of him was several injured and taking that team to 11-4 in a crowed AFC and one of the hardest divisions in football.

I don;t think you or I could say that Jack Del Rio of the Jaguars was a better coach then Bellichick of the Patriots, but you can;t say with that coaches like Del Rio and McCarthy shouldn't be in the argument, especially since Del Rio and McCarthy didn't cost their organization a first round pick. How do you weigh that, because it is a part of the coach's actions this year?

Belicheck always did the impossible. He made Randy Moss buy into a team atmosphere. He controlled a ton of egos and outside pressures and did something no other coach has done. He took a team that many predicted would be 12-4 or 11-5 and made them 16-0.

You can talk about other coaches merits, that is fine, but ultimately he has done so far something no one else can claim: not lost a game. In the end it's about wins and losses, and he has 16 wins and 0 losses.

Cringer · 12-30-2007, 12:57 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jas_lov

I do think McCarthy deserves it. He took the youngest team in the league and led them to a 12-3 record pending tomorrow's result. Bellichick has that whole spy gate thing hanging over his head so I think they'll go with the guy who did it the right way, Mike McCarthy. I don't even care that much about the spy gate scandal, but don't you think that will cost him some votes?

Good point, media guys are assholes about stuff sometimes. McCarthy wins it then, it's settled. Or maybe Del Rio I guess. I go with McCarthy.

I know he isn't getting fired at least.

DeToxRox · 12-30-2007, 12:58 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jas_lov

I do think McCarthy deserves it. He took the youngest team in the league and led them to a 12-3 record pending tomorrow's result. Bellichick has that whole spy gate thing hanging over his head so I think they'll go with the guy who did it the right way, Mike McCarthy. I don't even care that much about the spy gate scandal, but don't you think that will cost him some votes?

Again, he went undefeated. 16-0. I just cannot fathom how anyone else deserves it more when the guy didn't lose.

Cringer · 12-30-2007, 01:03 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DeToxRox

Again, he went undefeated. 16-0. I just cannot fathom how anyone else deserves it more when the guy didn't lose.

You don't hold all the votes though. I can buy into the "voters won't vote for him because of SpyGate" crap, and can see it happening. Or voters actually saying, Coach Mike/Jack did a lot with a ton less talent, blah blah blah.

Anyways, none are getting fired. We can agree on that right?

Chief Rum · 12-30-2007, 01:03 AM

Ocho Cinco is one of my favorite players. It started because he was on my fantasy team, and it carried forward because I realized he just makes me laugh with his antics without being anti-team the way TO was (who was also funny at times). He just seems to be a good reason to watch football (I liken him to Gilbert Arenas in the NBA; I think Agent Zero is good for the NBA in much the same way).

He wasn't the problem in Cincy this year.

DeToxRox · 12-30-2007, 01:04 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cringer

You don't hold all the votes though. I can buy into the "voters won't vote for him because of SpyGate" crap, and can see it happening. Or voters actually saying, Coach Mike/Jack did a lot with a ton less talent, blah blah blah.

Anyways, none are getting fired. We can agree on that right?

Ha of course. As a Lions fan, this is my chance to defend a good coach, just give me my moment damnit.

DeToxRox · 12-30-2007, 01:07 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chief Rum

Ocho Cinco is one of my favorite players. It started because he was on my fantasy team, and it carried forward because I realized he just makes me laugh with his antics without being anti-team the way TO was (who was also funny at times). He just seems to be a good reason to watch football (I liken him to Gilbert Arenas in the NBA; I think Agent Zero is good for the NBA in much the same way).

He wasn't the problem in Cincy this year.

The problem with Cinncy is two fold.

One, Carson Palmer is extremely overrated. He's a better version of Eli Manning. Has monster games, but has inexplicable atrocious games. Very inconsistent and that's what sets off WR's.

Two, Marvin Lewis is not that good of a coach. His bread and butter is defense, and the Bengals D has never been above average during his tenure. So when Palmer plays bad, and the offense isn't moving, the Bengals are sunk.

Cringer · 12-30-2007, 01:07 AM

Defend away. I am not going to get upset if Belichick wins the award. Brady is already taking what could have been another MVP Award away from Favre. It's just how things are this year.....

larrymcg421 · 12-30-2007, 01:08 AM

You can't end the discussion just by saying 16-0.

Who is more deserving?

Coach that takes a team with 14-2 talent to 16-0 or a coach that takes a team with 4-12 talent to 13-3.

Now I'm sure people will disagree about the talent levels and coaching performances of the people involved, but that's better than just saying "16-0!" and covering your ears because nothing else is acceptable.

DeToxRox · 12-30-2007, 01:09 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cringer

Defend away. I am not going to get upset if Belichick wins the award. Brady is already taking what could have been another MVP Award away from Favre. It's just how things are this year.....

Just beat the Cowboys for the love of God. That's all I ask. I love Favre. It's impossible to hate the guy. Romo on the other hand, is incredibly easy to hate.

Abe Sargent · 12-30-2007, 01:11 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DeToxRox

Again, he went undefeated. 16-0. I just cannot fathom how anyone else deserves it more when the guy didn't lose.

He did something else unprecedented - he cost his team a first round draft pick. That's how you can "fathom" it, by considering more than record at the end of the year. Coach of the Year has to be about more than record, or else we shouldn't even have a vote - just award it automatically.

Cringer · 12-30-2007, 01:12 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DeToxRox

Just beat the Cowboys for the love of God. That's all I ask. I love Favre. It's impossible to hate the guy. Romo on the other hand, is incredibly easy to hate.

HA! Try living in Texas with this crap. Idiots all of the sudden driving around with Go Cowboys! and Tony Romo #1 written on their cars when last year they were fans of other teams or not watching football at all (down in south Texas where I live anyways).

DeToxRox · 12-30-2007, 01:12 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by larrymcg421

You can't end the discussion just by saying 16-0.

Who is more deserving?

Coach that takes a team with 14-2 talent to 16-0 or a coach that takes a team with 4-12 talent to 13-3.

Now I'm sure people will disagree about the talent levels and coaching performances of the people involved, but that's better than just saying "16-0!" and covering your ears because nothing else is acceptable.

With 16-0 comes so much media scrutiny you need a leader to keep the ship going on. BB had that team going full tilt and avoiding all distraction.

In the coaching profession you are solely judged on wins and losses. The COTY award should be as such. To do something no one else has done, that is deserving of COTY. Others have had improvements of 6, 7 wins, but no one else has gone 16-0.

DeToxRox · 12-30-2007, 01:13 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Anxiety

He did something else unprecedented - he cost his team a first round draft pick. That's how you can "fathom" it, by considering more than record at the end of the year. Coach of the Year has to be about more than record, or else we shouldn't even have a vote - just award it automatically.

And he also got a top 10 pick in the off season. And Randy Moss for a fourth round pick. And got Adalius Thomas. And got Wes Welker for a 2nd round pick. He facilitated all these deals, you can damn well bet that.

Abe Sargent · 12-30-2007, 01:15 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by larrymcg421

You can't end the discussion just by saying 16-0.

Who is more deserving?

Coach that takes a team with 14-2 talent to 16-0 or a coach that takes a team with 4-12 talent to 13-3.

Now I'm sure people will disagree about the talent levels and coaching performances of the people involved, but that's better than just saying "16-0!" and covering your ears because nothing else is acceptable.

Agreed, and although I personally think Del Rio deserves it as a homer, I'd love to see McCarthy get the award. The Pack was dead in the water and now look. I;d be fine with that. If the voters ultimately weigh the spy gate affair against the 16-0 season and decide to give it to him, I wouldn't like it, because i think the guy is a dick, but alright. But to suggest he should win by default, and guys like Del Rio and McCarthy aren't even in the conversation I have difficultly with.

Now, if Dungy had gone 16-0. we'd be talking. No spygate, tough division, etc. Losing your team a first rounder even if it ends up being no 32, is simply unheard of and has to factor in.

Abe Sargent · 12-30-2007, 01:17 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DeToxRox

And he also got a top 10 pick in the off season. And Randy Moss for a fourth round pick. And got Adalius Thomas. And got Wes Welker for a 2nd round pick. He facilitated all these deals, you can damn well bet that.

That concerns talent-area of the position, not coach, ergo not pertinent. Just as if he has negotiated great contracts for the signage rights to the stadium, that would not be pertinent to the award. On the other hand, he lost the first rounder as a result of a coaching decision. That is pertinent.

DeToxRox · 12-30-2007, 01:18 AM

Jack Del Rio? Yes this year he was good but last year he totally underperformed and because of that his team looked much better this year. So the fact last year he cost his team games lowered expectations for this year makes him a COTY candidate? I don't buy it.

DeToxRox · 12-30-2007, 01:18 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Anxiety

That concerns talent-area of the position, not coach, ergo not pertinent. Just as if he has negotiated great contracts for the signage rights to the stadium, that would not be pertinent to the award. On the other hand, he lost the first rounder as a result of a coaching decision. That is pertinent.

He made the call on these guys. He said, "I can coach Randy Moss and keep him in line" and guess what, he did. That sounds like coaching to me.

larrymcg421 · 12-30-2007, 01:19 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DeToxRox

With 16-0 comes so much media scrutiny you need a leader to keep the ship going on. BB had that team going full tilt and avoiding all distraction.

In the coaching profession you are solely judged on wins and losses. The COTY award should be as such. To do something no one else has done, that is deserving of COTY. Others have had improvements of 6, 7 wins, but no one else has gone 16-0.

You should be solely judged on wins and losses. Then why do they even do the voting? Just hand the award to the coach with the highest winning percentage every year.

Cringer · 12-30-2007, 01:20 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Anxiety

Agreed, and although I personally think Del Rio deserves it as a homer, I'd love to see McCarthy get the award. The Pack was dead in the water and now look. I;d be fine with that. If the voters ultimately weigh the spy gate affair against the 16-0 season and decide to give it to him, I wouldn't like it, because i think the guy is a dick, but alright. But to suggest he should win by default, and guys like Del Rio and McCarthy aren't even in the conversation I have difficultly with.

Now, if Dungy had gone 16-0. we'd be talking. No spygate, tough division, etc. Losing your team a first rounder even if it ends up being no 32, is simply unheard of and has to factor in.

To argue against (just for the hell of it) the coach of my favorite team, I think the media (which leads the publlic to their opinion) way under estimated the Packers, as did I. Favre said last year before the season it was a talented team. At the end of the year they really showed it by getting hot. This year he said this team had more talent then the Packer Superbowl teams ten years ago. Everyone laughed at him. Looks like he was right about the talent on the team and the media was wrong. Should a guy get an award because people didn't realize how good a team actually was before the season?

DeToxRox · 12-30-2007, 01:21 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by larrymcg421

You should be solely judged on wins and losses. Then why do they even do the voting? Just hand the award to the coach with the highest winning percentage every year.

It'd be fine with me, TBH. It's dumb that the best coach doesn't win it every year because he's penalized for consistently winning, whether it be Belichek or Dungy.

larrymcg421 · 12-30-2007, 01:25 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DeToxRox

It'd be fine with me, TBH. It's dumb that the best coach doesn't win it every year because he's penalized for consistently winning, whether it be Belichek or Dungy.

I think it should be the coach that did the best coaching job throughout the season, and I don't think it's always the coach with the best record. I certainly don't think Barry Switzer did the 2nd best coaching job in 1995, for example.

Chief Rum · 12-30-2007, 01:32 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DeToxRox

The problem with Cinncy is two fold.

One, Carson Palmer is extremely overrated. He's a better version of Eli Manning. Has monster games, but has inexplicable atrocious games. Very inconsistent and that's what sets off WR's.

Two, Marvin Lewis is not that good of a coach. His bread and butter is defense, and the Bengals D has never been above average during his tenure. So when Palmer plays bad, and the offense isn't moving, the Bengals are sunk.

I agree, although I wouldn't say Palmer is overrated so much as he hasn't yet learned to be as consistent as he should be. If he never learns, then you're right, he is overrated. I remind myself that he is actually still a fairly young QB (and I don't know that he has gotten terrific coaching in his NFL tenure either).

Cringer · 12-30-2007, 01:33 AM

The Bengals o-line pretty much blows too doesn't it?

DeToxRox · 12-30-2007, 01:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chief Rum

I agree, although I wouldn't say Palmer is overrated so much as he hasn't yet learned to be as consistent as he should be. If he never learns, then you're right, he is overrated. I remind myself that he is actually still a fairly young QB (and I don't know that he has gotten terrific coaching in his NFL tenure either).

Yeah, you're probably right. He had an amazing year last year, but he regressed this year which is disheartning. At 27, he is entering his prime soon, but I just think there is so much going on there with that coaching staff and basically having little respect from the players that unless Marvin goes, that team is probably out the door on the staff.

Radii · 12-30-2007, 01:35 AM

If I had a vote for coach of the year I think I'd give it to McCarthy, but at the same time, this seems like one of those years where one team could sweep every award out there and it'd be hard to knock it.

As far as my team, John Fox got the dreaded "Vote of Confidence" a few weeks ago, and the team is a complete wreck. There is a lot more wrong than just Delhomme's injury and the QB situation. The defense was just miserable. The 'feared' front 4 was last in the league in sacks. Rucker is probably retiring, Jenkins is unhappy and Peppers was completely non-existant this year. There were games where, regardless of QB, they just didn't seem to try to get Steve Smith involved in the offense. Games where they seemed to give up, countless runs on 3rd and long just handing the ball back to the defense. It seems like the only bright spot on the entire team is that Jon Beason seems to have replaced Dan 'concussion' Morgan at MLB very well.

I don't know if Fox is, or should be, gone during this offseason. But I would wager that he starts next year on a very, very short leash if he is still around.

DeToxRox · 12-30-2007, 01:38 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Radii

If I had a vote for coach of the year I think I'd give it to McCarthy, but at the same time, this seems like one of those years where one team could sweep every award out there and it'd be hard to knock it.

As far as my team, John Fox got the dreaded "Vote of Confidence" a few weeks ago, and the team is a complete wreck. There is a lot more wrong than just Delhomme's injury and the QB situation. The defense was just miserable. The 'feared' front 4 was last in the league in sacks. Rucker is probably retiring, Jenkins is unhappy and Peppers was completely non-existant this year. There were games where, regardless of QB, they just didn't seem to try to get Steve Smith involved in the offense. Games where they seemed to give up, countless runs on 3rd and long just handing the ball back to the defense. It seems like the only bright spot on the entire team is that Jon Beason seems to have replaced Dan 'concussion' Morgan at MLB very well.

I don't know if Fox is, or should be, gone during this offseason. But I would wager that he starts next year on a very, very short leash if he is still around.

I think he'll stay around one more year until Cowher is ready to return. You're a Panthers fan, is that the consensus?

12-29-2007, 08:57 PM	#2
Cringer Grizzled Veteran Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: Edinburg,TX	Yup, getting rid of Martz is the last piece of the puzzle for Detroit. Just like the Bengals only need to get rid of Chad Johnson to get back to the playoffs. __________________ You Stole Fizzy Lifting drinks! You bumped into the ceiling which now has to be washed and steralized, so you get NOTHING! You lose!

12-29-2007, 10:22 PM	#6
Abe Sargent Hall Of Famer Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Catonsville, MD	Man, I wouldn't fire Martz after the Lions improved this yera. Even with the collapse they were a better offense post-Martz. __________________ Check out my two current weekly Magic columns! https://www.coolstuffinc.com/a/?action=search&page=1&author[]=Abe%20Sargent

12-29-2007, 10:29 PM	#9
Cringer Grizzled Veteran Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: Edinburg,TX	BTW, was anyone else expecting miami_fan to start this off by talking about a certain Dolphn coach? __________________ You Stole Fizzy Lifting drinks! You bumped into the ceiling which now has to be washed and steralized, so you get NOTHING! You lose!

12-29-2007, 11:50 PM	#13
Chief Rum Hall Of Famer Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: Where Hip Hop lives	Marvin Lewis needs to go not because of issues on offense, which was just fine, but because A) his defense never improved (despite his resume with the Ravens), and B) management seems to have a serious issue recognizing players with character and attitude issues and staying away from them. As for Martz, I can't stand the guy, but he's not the reason they fell apart. Kitna always has been an interception waiting to happen. Throw him into offense like the Rams ran, and what do you think is going to happen? One thing Martz is guilty of--he abandons the run way too easy, so it's his fault they did so poorly running the ball (although once again Millen fails here because he never bothered to acquire an actual horse back for simply running the ball; Tatum Bell and Kevin Jones are more quick backs, and Duckett wasn't ever good enough for the role). __________________ . . I would rather be wrong...Than live in the shadows of your song...My mind is open wide...And now I'm ready to start...You're not sure...You open the door...And step out into the dark...Now I'm ready.

12-29-2007, 11:57 PM	#14
larrymcg421 Head Coach Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Georgia	Wait wait wait. The Lions have fired Martz and replaced him with.... Kippy Brown! Please allow me to begin a chorus of laughing that will surely continue as other Dolphins fans find this thread. Bahahahahaha! __________________ Top 10 Songs of the Year 1955-Present (1976 Added) Franchise Portfolio Draft Winner Fictional Character Draft Winner Television Family Draft Winner Build Your Own Hollywood Studio Draft Winner

12-29-2007, 10:01 PM	#3
Passacaglia Coordinator Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: Big Ten Country	Fire Martz ftw1

12-29-2007, 10:14 PM	#4
rjolley College Starter Join Date: Dec 2000 Location: Roseville, CA	So, firing Martz and keeping Millen is the best for the Lions? As a Bears fan, I'm not complaining about keeping Millen around, but still...

12-29-2007, 10:18 PM	#5
Brownkeg8 Mascot Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Ohio	Funny how when they were 6-2 he was a genius!

12-29-2007, 10:25 PM	#7
QuikSand lolzcat Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: Annapolis, Md	Fascinating. Keeping Martz calling plays and not making "decisions" just seems like the best of all possible worlds. It would be just so...well...so Detroit of them to do this, and see Martz walk off into another situation where he really elevates the offense and team.

12-29-2007, 10:29 PM	#8
korme Go Reds Join Date: May 2001 Location: Bloodbuzz Ohio	Marvin Lewis was quoted as wanting to blow the Bengals up, let me find the quotes: Question: Was there a sense even before training camp that things weren't looking good? Answer: It's been (that way) all the time. We've struggled with guys who are too much worried about what they make or what the next guy makes. That's hard to overcome, and we've had to deal with it for two years now. Until they get it figured out that that's not the way winning teams operate… It's time for us to blow the whole thing up and start from scratch. We need to empty these shelves, empty these offices and start from scratch. Q: When you say blow it up… A: We've got to start from scratch. We have to blow it up and empty everything. Just like new people walking in this door and go from there. That's the only way we're going to shake away from the cobwebs. We've established a certain plateau or work ethic and we've got to move beyond that. Hopefully ownership doesn't listen to his desperation and fires him. Despite all the underachieving, we still have tons of legitimate talent and scraping all that we've built in the past 3-4 years would be, for lack of a better word, refuckintarded.

12-29-2007, 11:07 PM	#11
korme Go Reds Join Date: May 2001 Location: Bloodbuzz Ohio	Marvin's been here for 5 years. We've got 3 8-8 seasons, 1 winning season and 1 losing. Just because we were the joke of the league before he arrived doesn't mean we should settle for mediocrity- not with the offense we have. Chad is not a problem. Local media really has ripped into him this year, and people always were saying he was having quiet games, but with such a 'lackluster' year, with 1 game to play, he's got 89 catches (more than last year), and 1309 yards- he had 1369 last year and led the league. The bottom line is he isn't replacable. The fans love him. Getting rid of him would be stupid.

12-29-2007, 11:08 PM	#12
korme Go Reds Join Date: May 2001 Location: Bloodbuzz Ohio	BTW Cringer, re-reading your post, now I'm not sure if you were being sarcastic (which was why I replied) or not.

12-30-2007, 12:08 AM	#15
stevew Hall Of Famer Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: the yo'	TJ Douche is way underpaid, and there's no way he should report to camp next year without a new contract. It's almost like Palmer hates him or something, with the rediculous throws that lead to TJ getting decapitated. I've seen the guy take some man sized shots on a regular basis. He's a top flight WR, The bengals defense has been embarassing, way too many good picks invested into the squad for them to suck that bad. It's like so weird how Billick is some "offensive genius" who's teams suck at offense and are great at defense, and how Lewis is basically the polar opposite. I still think he should get 1-2 more years though, they could at least attempt to de-turdify the roster, and bring in a better front seven over the next 2 years. Hell, they only have 21 sacks all year, last year Smith and Gaethers combined for 19.

12-30-2007, 12:20 AM	#17
Jas_lov College Starter Join Date: Oct 2000	The following head coaches need to go: Marvin Lewis, Brian Billick, Herm Edwards, and Cam Cameron. Any more to add to the list? Also, the following coach should win nfl coach of the year: Mike McCarthy.

12-30-2007, 12:55 AM	#22
DeToxRox Head Coach Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Michigan	Martz leaving Detroit isn't a big loss. The problem is Marinelli can't obviously control him judging by the fact he let him have three games where Detroit ran the ball under three times so it's better to just let him go and see if Marinelli can do anything with an OC he's on the same page as. And TBH, next year the Lions are a 6 win team. Kitna is a year older, Shaun Rogers is on his way out and the team has shown a complete inability to draft and sign FA's. Hell, I predict right now Jon Kitna will not be the Lions QB next year.

12-30-2007, 01:03 AM	#28
Chief Rum Hall Of Famer Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: Where Hip Hop lives	Ocho Cinco is one of my favorite players. It started because he was on my fantasy team, and it carried forward because I realized he just makes me laugh with his antics without being anti-team the way TO was (who was also funny at times). He just seems to be a good reason to watch football (I liken him to Gilbert Arenas in the NBA; I think Agent Zero is good for the NBA in much the same way). He wasn't the problem in Cincy this year. __________________ . . I would rather be wrong...Than live in the shadows of your song...My mind is open wide...And now I'm ready to start...You're not sure...You open the door...And step out into the dark...Now I'm ready.

12-30-2007, 01:07 AM	#31
Cringer Grizzled Veteran Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: Edinburg,TX	Defend away. I am not going to get upset if Belichick wins the award. Brady is already taking what could have been another MVP Award away from Favre. It's just how things are this year..... __________________ You Stole Fizzy Lifting drinks! You bumped into the ceiling which now has to be washed and steralized, so you get NOTHING! You lose!

12-30-2007, 01:08 AM	#32
larrymcg421 Head Coach Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Georgia	You can't end the discussion just by saying 16-0. Who is more deserving? Coach that takes a team with 14-2 talent to 16-0 or a coach that takes a team with 4-12 talent to 13-3. Now I'm sure people will disagree about the talent levels and coaching performances of the people involved, but that's better than just saying "16-0!" and covering your ears because nothing else is acceptable. __________________ Top 10 Songs of the Year 1955-Present (1976 Added) Franchise Portfolio Draft Winner Fictional Character Draft Winner Television Family Draft Winner Build Your Own Hollywood Studio Draft Winner

12-30-2007, 01:18 AM	#40
DeToxRox Head Coach Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Michigan	Jack Del Rio? Yes this year he was good but last year he totally underperformed and because of that his team looked much better this year. So the fact last year he cost his team games lowered expectations for this year makes him a COTY candidate? I don't buy it.

12-30-2007, 01:33 AM	#47
Cringer Grizzled Veteran Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: Edinburg,TX	The Bengals o-line pretty much blows too doesn't it? __________________ You Stole Fizzy Lifting drinks! You bumped into the ceiling which now has to be washed and steralized, so you get NOTHING! You lose!

12-30-2007, 01:35 AM	#49
Radii Head Coach Join Date: Jul 2001	If I had a vote for coach of the year I think I'd give it to McCarthy, but at the same time, this seems like one of those years where one team could sweep every award out there and it'd be hard to knock it. As far as my team, John Fox got the dreaded "Vote of Confidence" a few weeks ago, and the team is a complete wreck. There is a lot more wrong than just Delhomme's injury and the QB situation. The defense was just miserable. The 'feared' front 4 was last in the league in sacks. Rucker is probably retiring, Jenkins is unhappy and Peppers was completely non-existant this year. There were games where, regardless of QB, they just didn't seem to try to get Steve Smith involved in the offense. Games where they seemed to give up, countless runs on 3rd and long just handing the ball back to the defense. It seems like the only bright spot on the entire team is that Jon Beason seems to have replaced Dan 'concussion' Morgan at MLB very well. I don't know if Fox is, or should be, gone during this offseason. But I would wager that he starts next year on a very, very short leash if he is still around.

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