Q. Do you have to be "Black" to be a minority?

[Taur]

Q. Do you have to be "Black" to be a minority? According to the NFL.

If the NFL would push this issue with the Lions I wonder if they could claim that not only did they comply with the rules reguarding the interviewing of minority canidates, but they hired a minority.

(Background)I was born in Wichita KS. I have blonde hair, blue eyes and when I go to the lake or the beach I have to take along my SPF 48 so I don't burn. --When I filled out my US Census report a couple of years ago I was told that because one of my relatives ,on my mothers side, boarded a boat from spain over 250 years ago I was supposed to check the Hispanic box.

Something tells me that Mariucci did not check the "White/Caucasion" box either.

Q. Do you have to be "African/American" to be a minority?

[McSweeny]

i suppose i can check "irish" because my grandparents came over from ireland? Actually sometimes i do check other and write in "irish" just because it's such a foolish question. I wonder if i get filed as a minority just because they don't read what i wrote under other

[bbor]

I am CANADIAN

So i'm not a minority...i just talk funny EH

[Qwikshot]

Black is not the only minority.

[sachmo71]

No.

[BucDawg40]

If you're asking "are Blacks the only minority that Cochrane and Jackson care about," I think the answer is "yes."

Nobody ever mentions Flores or Fontes among minorities who have been NFL head coaches.

I think Jackson, Cochrane, and their cronies need to step up their game and fight for all minorities, including those who are religious minorities. We need more atheists, muslims and jews in the NFL.

Due to the vast majority of NFL players being "born again" types, do you think an NFL owner would ever want to hire an avowed atheist as head coach even if he was clearly the most qualified and skilled coach? No -- and that is sickening religious discrimination.

[Blackadar]

No, and that's why Jackson, Cochrane, Sharpton and the rest of them are racists. They don't care for anyone other than blacks.

[ACStrider]

And if you look at what they promote and the causes they support, you could argue that they only care for liberal blacks.

Yeah, don't get me started on those three...

[Antonin]

Originally posted by Blackadar
No, and that's why Jackson, Cochrane, Sharpton and the rest of them are racists. They don't care for anyone other than blacks.

Gee whiz. And y'all accuse us of being totally consumed by racial concerns.

What any of this has to do with Front Office Football is beyond me. And shouldn't OT topics be marked "OT"?

But wierd discussions like this are the main reason I limit my internet time. It never fails: whenever I hang around a place where white folks hang out, one or more of them ALWAYS wants to introduce the subject of race. Always!

It's as if y'all can't sleep at night because you believe the entire planet belongs to you and only you, and you are afraid that any time a black person makes any gains in the world, it can ONLY be at your expense.

We're not your enemy, but too many of you treat us and talk about us as if we are. That has been my experience for the 45 years I have been on this planet, living with, going to school with, enjoying friendships with, and working with white people. Living among you can be stressful, because you could exterminate us any time you choose.

The thing that supposedly unites us here is FoF. If I brought my non-FoF concerns to this forum, the flame wars would rage hot and bitter for weeks.

Race is one of the most painful topics in our society. Does anybody other than me wish that in THIS place, we could get away from all that and have fun talking about stuff that unites us?

Don't bother to flame me. I don't come here very much and I'm not going to see your flames. The last thing I'm going to spend my time doing is arguing about race with a bunch of white guys.

So, bye for now.

[sachmo71]

Gee whiz. And y'all accuse us of being totally consumed by racial concerns.

Who is us.

What any of this has to do with Front Office Football is beyond me. And shouldn't OT topics be marked "OT"?

Stick around for a while. You will find that this is not always the case. You learn to identify threads that you will be interested in by their title, but sometimes even that doesn't work. It takes time, but you'll get it!

But wierd discussions like this are the main reason I limit my internet time. It never fails: whenever I hang around a place where white folks hang out, one or more of them ALWAYS wants to introduce the subject of race. Always!

Possibly because it's a topic that many people feel strongly about?

It's as if y'all can't sleep at night because you believe the entire planet belongs to you and only you, and you are afraid that any time a black person makes any gains in the world, it can ONLY be at your expense.

Maybe I missed something? I think this was the start of a discussion of the minority hiring pratices of the NFL. I don't see anyone putting whites on a pedistal.

We're not your enemy, but too many of you treat us and talk about us as if we are. That has been my experience for the 45 years I have been on this planet, living with, going to school with, enjoying friendships with, and working with white people. Living among you can be stressful, because you could exterminate us any time you choose.

Obviously, you are entitled to your opinion, but I don't think anyone could "exterminate" an entire race of people "any time you choose".

The thing that supposedly unites us here is FoF. If I brought my non-FoF concerns to this forum, the flame wars would rage hot and bitter for weeks.

You would be surprised at what unites us here. It's certainly more than Front Office Football. You might also be surprised at some of the responses you receive here. Maybe you might learn something, and maybe I might also. It won't work if you pack up and leave before trying, though.

Race is one of the most painful topics in our society. Does anybody other than me wish that in THIS place, we could get away from all that and have fun talking about stuff that unites us?

If we didn't talk about other things besides FOF, this place wouldn't be as unique as it is.

Don't bother to flame me. I don't come here very much and I'm not going to see your flames. The last thing I'm going to spend my time doing is arguing about race with a bunch of white guys.

I just wanted to make sure that you knew I'm not trying to flame you. You seem like a pretty reactionary guy, so I wanted to make my intention clear. I just wanted to pass on my opinions of what you have said here. This board IS NOT perfect, but it is unique. I think that overall the membership of this board is pretty open minded. If you took the time to get to know some of us, you might actually enjoy posting here. Of course, it's your choice to do whatever you want. Just know that you are selling everyone here very, very short.

So, bye for now.

And I hope to see you again soon.

[ACStrider]

Antonin...

I guess you're not goint to even bother reading this but i thought I would write this anyway. I don't know if any of your comment was headed in my direction or not, but I'm a bit surprised at the nature of your post. Let it be said that I haven't seen anyone flamed here in this thread except the hypocrites Jackson, Sharpton and Cochrane, and I don't intend to flame anyone anytime soon. It might be a bit, no, correction, it IS unreasonable to expect all of the topics to be FOF related and those that aren't to be headed with an "OT". It happens all of the time. Sometimes they head down routes that I don't like either but the simple answer is to avoid those threads if you see them going down that road. Maybe this thread just hit a touchy subject and threw you off a bit...I'll give you the benefit of the doubt. I'd just like to ask a couple of quick questions. First of all, how do you know that everyone posting in here is white? Isn't that a bit of an assumption on your part? My biggest objection to Jackson, Sharpton and Cochrane is that they are crooks and swindlers, not that they are black. They could be purple for all I care and it still wouldn't change my opinion of them. I've never started a topic involving race, and frankly this is the first time I've EVER commented in a race-oriented thread. Anyways, my other question for you is why the "us vs. you" language? Maybe you've seen a lot more then I have (and I'm totally open to that possibility) but it seems to me that converation in that format by its nature divides. When you break into us vs. them mentality, two sides can't help but be formed. I'll agree with you on several points...race is a painful topic. It is something great to see races work together, much as MLK envisioned it. I live in Texas and there are a lot of blacks and hispanics where I live. I work with people from all sorts of backgrounds, and I'll tell you, I enjoy the company of those who come from a different upbringing. I look at them and am excited to see them succeed. When I was in college I attended a predominantly black church. So I lose sleep but it's because of my insomnia, not because a hispanic or a black is doing better then myself. I sincerely hope that you read this post because it might be helpful to know that in race-oriented threads, yeah, there are jerks, but there are also those who do wish the best for minorities and for the unity of our society.

[Qwikshot]

Originally posted by Antonin
Gee whiz. And y'all accuse us of being totally consumed by racial concerns.

Y'all? First of all, I ignored replying to this thread until this post. I'm not consumed by it, we are constantly reminded on how blacks and other minorities are/were mistreated by whites. It is a sensitive issue.

What any of this has to do with Front Office Football is beyond me. And shouldn't OT topics be marked "OT"?

If you've looked at all the posts, you'll see the majority have nothing to do with FOF. They are just posts about anything in general, but most are topical. Some are funny and inane, some are frank and serious (this being one of those).

But wierd discussions like this are the main reason I limit my internet time. It never fails: whenever I hang around a place where white folks hang out, one or more of them ALWAYS wants to introduce the subject of race. Always!

It's weird, not wierd, I know you were probably under duress. I see you've posted like 7 times on the board, so yes, you must be more active in the real world. How do you know everyone on the board is white, or that the board is predominantly white, isn't that the same type of generalizing that bigots do?

It's as if y'all can't sleep at night because you believe the entire planet belongs to you and only you, and you are afraid that any time a black person makes any gains in the world, it can ONLY be at your expense.

Lots of minorities have helped to make this country better, I sleep very well at night knowing this. I don't know how blacks improving the quality of life would/could be negative (or any minority for that matter)...but you have to admit that there are blacks who feed on making things negative just as much as there are whites do (Sharpton's notorious for this, Jackson has fallen from grace because of his infidelities, and Cochrane got O.J. off(do you think he was innocent?).

We're not your enemy, but too many of you treat us and talk about us as if we are. That has been my experience for the 45 years I have been on this planet, living with, going to school with, enjoying friendships with, and working with white people. Living among you can be stressful, because you could exterminate us any time you choose.

I don't think anything in the posts stated that you were (or any black or minority for that matter)? You make us sound like animals, or a different breed of people...are you the Jane Goodall among the white people? I treat everyone the same except for those who treat me badly, I've never looked at skin color to be a requirement for treating people better.

As for the whole genocide thing, I don't know where you live, but it's amazing that you would think this would ever happen, white and blacks, Jews and gentiles and Christians, men and women, gays and heterosexuals, united to bring about civil rights, people losts their lives for it,

do you really think that people would let that happen?

The thing that supposedly unites us here is FoF. If I brought my non-FoF concerns to this forum, the flame wars would rage hot and bitter for weeks.

Race is one of the most painful topics in our society. Does anybody other than me wish that in THIS place, we could get away from all that and have fun talking about stuff that unites us?

No you won't get a flame war, I am just blown away by your fear and confusion. Race isn't a painful topic, shouldn't be, we need to accept everyone, each other...we are all Americans...as for a the board being anything but a discussion board, here I disagree, let the boardmembers decide on what topics should be allowed (as moderated by our moderators). You can always choose to ignore these types of threads as well.

Don't bother to flame me. I don't come here very much and I'm not going to see your flames. The last thing I'm going to spend my time doing is arguing about race with a bunch of white guys.

So, bye for now.

Again, generalizing with white guys, again thinking that whites are bigots, or closeminded, we aren't /all/ bigots (all races have racism).

You don't come here much, then how do you know anything about us? Please don't be someone who spouts off and then runs away, stay your ground, talk to us, and we'll be happy to debate...

[Blackadar]

By the way, "the rest of them" comment is for those activists who seem to only care about black issues. This does not pertain to everyone of the race.

[GrantDawg]

Just a bit off topic here, but isn't it funny that every month or so someone with like 7-8 post comes on here and tells us what we are supposed to post and not post? If I've only posted a handful of times, I would not presume to make demands on a board that has been around for several years.

[QuikSand]

Since the initial topic was supposedly the NFL, here's a thought that really ought to be part of the discussion (independent of your or my thoughts on the NFL's current hiring protocols).

I think thereason that there has been particular attention to promotion of "minority" hiring in the NFL (and yes, the focus has been particularly on African-Americans or blacks) is because there is a particular link there. A sizable share of coaches in the NFL are drawn from the ranks of former players, even those who played only briefly. Since the pool of former players is a group with a racial profile that skews toward minorities, and in particular blacks (and has been that way for a pretty long time), it superficially stands to reason that the people getting coaching jobs-- largely drawn from the pool of players who were active in the 1960s, 70s, and 80s-- would be pretty "diverse" in general, and pretty well-populated with blacks. The fact that this still isn't so makes this, in some people's minds, a special case.

Again, I don't necessarily agree with the conclusions that many people reach about this topic, nor do I ask you to. However, this is a particular reason why there might be justification for particular (and logically consistent) concern about "black representation" among NFL coaches, rather than that of other minority groups (who are not themselves disproportionately represented in the pool of former players).

[Jets80]

Do you have to be "Black" to be a minority?

I do not believe so. Look at Jason Sehorn. He is white and plays corner back in the NFL. He is definitly in the minority.

[Blackadar]

I've always said I'll support and demand more black head coaches when the number of black/white players becomes more equitable.

[Taur]

I posted this after watching T.B.D.S.S.P. That morning they features three Black guest talking about "Minority" hiring practices in the NFL. Gone were the words of "black" or "African American" and they were replaced by the term "Minority". It was "minority" this and "minority" that. Both the shows hosts and guests were no longer talking about "Blacks", but now were talking about "Minorities".

Except, when they showed flashbacks from a couple months ago when Cochran was on the show. Then it was strictly "Black" and "African American". By both the Guest and the Hosts.

The new "Report" that everyone is citing is now being referred to as "The Rooney Minority Report". The Report outlines the "Minority" hiring practices for the NFL.

My point is the word "Minority" and "Black" are not interchangeable. You can be a "Minority" and not be "Black". But, listening to these so called "NFL Experts" that are appearing on every sports talk show you might come to the conclusion that either you are "Black" or part of the "Majority".

Why am I not hearing anything about the "Hispanic" coaches in the NFL? Or, the Asian coaches? Or, the Native American coaches? Or, the Southern Pacific coaches? Or, the so so called "other Box" coaches? Actually I believe the US Census had 8 boxes for race; so basically who is representing the other "7-Boxes" in the US. I find it hard to believe that Cochran and his movement are.

[QuikSand]

Originally posted by Taur
Why am I not hearing anything about the "Hispanic" coaches in the NFL? Or, the Asian coaches? Or, the Native American coaches? Or, the Southern Pacific coaches? Or, the so so called "other Box" coaches?

I tried to take a stab at this about two or three posts above... I realize that this logic might get in the way of some righteous indignation... but there is some logic there.

[Chief Rum]

Originally posted by Antonin
Gee whiz. And y'all accuse us of being totally consumed by racial concerns.

It never fails: whenever I hang around a place where white folks hang out, one or more of them ALWAYS wants to introduce the subject of race. Always!

It's as if y'all can't sleep at night because you believe the entire planet belongs to you and only you, and you are afraid that any time a black person makes any gains in the world, it can ONLY be at your expense.

Antonin, you will probably never read this, so maybe it doesn't matter. And I'm sure you'll regard this as a flame and not give it its just due. But I say this not with the intent of flaming you, but with pointing something out that I think my colleagues here have been too kind to point out themselves.

And that is that your post was, for the most part, one of the most bigoted, horribly racially-stereotyped posts I have ever seen in this forum.

Don't worry about coming back. I'm not shedding any tears.

Chief Rum

[Barkeep49]

Originally posted by Blackadar
I've always said I'll support and demand more black head coaches when the number of black/white players becomes more equitable.

So does this means that you don't support the hirings of Marvin Lewis, Tony Dungy to name a couple from the last couple of years because they took the jobs of white people?

[Fritz]

not one midget coach
not one midget gm
not one midget qb
not one midget cheerleader
not one midget ref
no midgets in the broadcast booth
midget sideline reporters? Not a one

who is really getting shit on? its the little people!

[ACStrider]

And while we're on the topic of minorities (real or artificial) what about women? We don't see a single woman player, coach or ref (I believe) in the NFL.

[Fritz]

not one midget woman coach
not one midget woman gm
not one midget woman qb
not one midget woman cheerleader
not one midget woman ref
no woman midgets in the broadcast booth
woman midget sideline reporters? Not a one

[Blackadar]

Originally posted by Barkeep49
So does this means that you don't support the hirings of Marvin Lewis, Tony Dungy to name a couple from the last couple of years because they took the jobs of white people?

I don't really care. But the emphasis on hiring or interviewing black coaches, from inside and outside the league, is disgusting. It smacks of racial quotas, designed to help one group. I'm tired of the discussion that says that qualified black head coaches are being passed up due to their skin color. I think that's a bullshit statement and I think that if people want racial quotas, then we'll make the entire league quota-based - players, coaches and refs - regardless of talent.

[Fritz]

Originally posted by Qwikshot
we are all Americans...

except for those of us who are not

[vtbub]

As a minority, I demand to be interviewed for a NFL head coaching job....no, wait on second thought it would probably be either in Cincy or Washington and well incompetence breeds Mike Brown.

If you caught the end of the Sports Reporters this morning, you hopefully saw John Saunders parting shot on Bobby Mitchell, the Assistant GM for the Redskins who has suffered through one raw deal after another in DC. Powerful stuff.

On the flipside, why should Dallas and Detroit be penalized for going after the people they want. It was very clear that Parcells and Mooch were the first choice. Are you going to argue that they aren't good coaches?

Personally, there would be no way I'd hire Ray Rhodes or Denny Green as a head coach. I've watched plenty of games that the Packers and Vikings should have won but didn't. I would hire Art Shell and Tony Dungy in a minute, the job they did was phenominal.

As a person that faces obsticals and passive ignorance, I would be insulted to get ANY job that was awarded to me because of being a minority instead of being the most qualified. This isn't college where people need to have an artifical foot in the door to get a chance, this is a profession that hires and fires based on results. Do we really want to go through team by team and say who is or isn't, Martz, qualified to be an NFL coach?

If you want to be treated as an equal, you have to treat others as equals. Thats a lesson that all races and others need to figure out.

[John Galt]

Did anyone who posted after QS even bother to read his post? At least answer his argument on why black coaches are a unique case before you restate the conclusion that has dominated this thread. Add something to the discussion - don't just act indignant.

[Fritz]

Special case or no, I think that people just need to be more patient.