The official 2009 NASCAR thread

[cartman]

The start of the Daytona 500 is rapidly approaching. Any insight into various driver's chances? Jeff Gordon seems to be the popular choice, but the guy didn't win a single race last year. Even though he's in a backup car, I'm going with Tony Stewart.

[Galaxy]

Gordon and Stewart look very strong. Martin looks like he'll be a favorite as always.

What time do the green flag drop?

[cartman]

I believe the race start is set for 3:30 Eastern, but the start might be delayed due to rain.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Gordon did win one of the Twin 125 qualifiers this week though. Most pundits seem to have tabbed Carl Edwards to dethrone Jimmy Johnson this year.

As for me I just wish I could find a way to be as interested in this as I used to be

[cartman]

Originally Posted by JonInMiddleGA

As for me I just wish I could find a way to be as interested in this as I used to be

You know why they have NASCAR? It's for the folks that don't comprehend professional wrestling.

[CU Tiger]

someone needs to start an online fantasy contest

[Galaxy]

Originally Posted by JonInMiddleGA

Gordon did win one of the Twin 125 qualifiers this week though. Most pundits seem to have tabbed Carl Edwards to dethrone Jimmy Johnson this year.

As for me I just wish I could find a way to be as interested in this as I used to be

I'm kind of with you. I used to be a huge fan, and still am; but something about NASCAR has lost it's luster with me.

[RendeR]

FOX has had a lot to do with turning myself and some friends away. Their broadcast already today is pathetic.

WTF is the digger thing even doing on the god damn television? Its childish, its stupid and its not even well done. Amateurish shit like that entire song and clip make me want to vomit.

NASCAR needs to stop wasting fans time with this pre-race crap and get the fucking cars on the track. Keith Urban sucks. No offense to those who enjoy country music, but gag me with an entire fucking place setting. If the racew itself isn't starting until 3pm then don't start the live broadcast till 2:30 at the earliest, show some actual informative shit for 20 minutes then get on with the fucking race. Just to be fair I hate this pompous bullshit in the NFL too.

I love racing, I used to love watching everything I could about it. Now I can't stomach all the extraneous BS they throw in just to fill time and sell ad space.

OMG this urban guy is awful. its like one of the hanson's 20 year from now....

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by RendeR

Now I can't stomach all the extraneous BS they throw in just to fill time and sell ad space.

You got that one right on the first try, but given the ridiculous amount of money rights fees are going for these days the networks have to do something to try to make their money back, hard for me to blame them for that. And since ad packages are frequently sold in blocks that guarantee only X of Y spots in-race with the rest possibly (often) landing in the less watched pre-race coverage, they're getting full price for them. Kind of like NFL exhibition game tickets.

And if the expanded pre-race didn't exist then we'd be stuck with even more commercial interruptions during the race and that's not a trade off I think many people would go for since it's easy enough to avoid the pre-show altogether.

[RendeR]

Originally Posted by JonInMiddleGA

You got that one right on the first try, but given the ridiculous amount of money rights fees are going for these days the networks have to do something to try to make their money back, hard for me to blame them for that. And since ad packages are frequently sold in blocks that guarantee only X of Y spots in-race with the rest possibly (often) landing in the less watched pre-race coverage, they're getting full price for them. Kind of like NFL exhibition game tickets.

And if the expanded pre-race didn't exist then we'd be stuck with even more commercial interruptions during the race and that's not a trade off I think many people would go for since it's easy enough to avoid the pre-show altogether.

I don't have an issue so much with the making of time for the ads, pre or post race, its the total LACK of any quality of their content thats making me angry.

For example, they just showed that great piece with newman and Stewart talking about his new team and it lasted all of....2 minutes.

Digger, the ignorant looking badly drawn cartoon shown in concert with the stupidest country song I think I've ever heard (and I lived in Charlotte), lasted almost 10 minutes. Followed up by the performer doing 2 more songs filling almost 10 more minutes.

20 minutes of worhtless crap, 2, make that 4 minutes of decent stuff now with a piece on Joey Logano.

I mean WTF Fox???? STOP LISTENING TO DARRELL (I'm a fucking ignorant hick and it shows) WALTRIP!!!

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by Galaxy

I'm kind of with you. I used to be a huge fan, and still am; but something about NASCAR has lost it's luster with me.

I can put my finger on how they've lost me pretty easily really. Ultimately it comes down to the drivers, which used to be a group that had maybe 5-10 that I liked, a few I absolutely despised and the rest were kind of neutral for me. Over the past few years it's becomes a group with a precious few I actively like, nearly half the field I can't friggin stomach the sight or sound of, and a handful that are neutral largely because they're so generic. Most weeks it's kind of like watching a Giants-Yankees World Series, where I keep wishing there was a way for no one to win.

Throw the generic cars into the mix, the impossibility of keeping up with who is in what car this week in an era with as many as 5 primary sponsors splitting up a season, and the persistent feeling that while it may not be as outright scripted as professional wrestling that it's still often rigged to a significant degree insofar as you can do so given the unpredictability of mechanical problems and human error, it's gone from being my most closely followed season to one that I hardly even watch and just follow online.

[RendeR]

Don't get me wrong, I love Darrell. I loved him as a driver. As an announcer he's a germ in the puss of an infected ass-crack zit.

[RendeR]

Now one thing I DO like is the new cars.

They actually managed to make a car that everyone can build to the exact same specs and it truly is "one driver against another"

You can see how much the cars were making up for a lot of drivers in the past. Gordon used to be far and above everyone else, but the cars change, everenham leaves and Gordon reverts to a regular joe in the field.

The sponsorship thing I agree with, pick a fucking paint job and stick with it. NASCAR should mandate a max of 5 alternate schemes per year on any given car.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Of course DW is the only announcer that people actually, you know, seem to like or care about (although I suspect Larry Mc might have the second best Q rating) so he isn't going anywhere. The Keith Urban bit is just reaching out to the female audience (which is almost shockingly large on a consistent basis, even moreso on Speed than on the network race coverage) and will probably have segment ratings approaching double what a feature on Logano would hold and there's why you get what you get. Even I don't give much of a damn about the next supposed wunderkind, if anything I'm incredibly weary of that particular angle before it even gets underway.

Core fans, which I'll lump you into, are not remotely the target of any NASCAR programming with the exception perhaps of Wind Tunnel (if it's still on the air) and a few of the tech-oriented shows on Speed. The networks couldn't have come close to breaking even on that audience even before it started abandoning ship, no chance in hell they could do so now.

What the WWF/WWE did to ruin professional wrestling for long time fans has been done to NASCAR by $$$.

[RendeR]

Sadly I believe you are correct.

Fucking money destroyed my sport.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by RendeR

Don't get me wrong, I love Darrell. I loved him as a driver. As an announcer he's a germ in the puss of an infected ass-crack zit.

I enjoy the huckster routine and he's the main reason I'll watch at least some coverage on Fox whereas I don't even bother to turn on when any other network is carrying.

And ANYTHING is better than Wally F'n Dallenbach who I really wish someone would take out back & shoot just to put us out of his misery.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by RendeR

Fucking money destroyed my sport.

Make a note, that's the closest agreement you & I are likely to have in the calendar year.

Although truth be told, it was never "yours" or "mine", it always belonged to the France family and them alone. Difference is they used to be better at hiding that reality than they are now.

[RendeR]

Anyway, enough of the bitching. How about some of these new teams?

I'm thrilled for Petty enterprises snagging McDonald's though I have read that they didn't come in with the top level money you'd have expected. I blame the economy.

I'm a Joe Gibb's Racing fan, love Denny, have a love/hate thing for Kyle and I'm holding my opinion on Logano for now.

Is there anyone else in the field right now who would be a BIGGER story, than if Mark Martin could pull off the win today and a title this season? I hate Hendrick but for Mark's sake I hope he has the best season he's ever had and takes home a championship. He's a class act and has come so close so many times.

[RendeR]

Originally Posted by JonInMiddleGA

I enjoy the huckster routine and he's the main reason I'll watch at least some coverage on Fox whereas I don't even bother to turn on when any other network is carrying.

And ANYTHING is better than Wally F'n Dallenbach who I really wish someone would take out back & shoot just to put us out of his misery.

See I like Wally's analysis, I just wish the fuck he's shut up unless he's actually anylising something =)

I'm with you that he's annoying though.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Martin winning a title would be great. I had some issues with him working with the Bitch Which Shall Not Be Named and I have a strong dislike for Hendrick too, but the latter could be overlooked if it meant Martin finally got a championship.

I was thrilled with the strong practice performance of Bill Elliot & the Wood Brothers ... but knew deep down that what happened to them was exactly what would happen to them (for those who didn't follow that earlier in the week, mechanical problems turned one of the fastest cars in practice into a barely qualifying backmarker).

[RendeR]

Just noticed an interesting point. There are only 2 rookies running today. I'm wondering if there are any more going to try to run for ROTY?

If so Logano is pretty much guarenteed to win that award since he's in Gibb's equipment.

Scott Speed in a Red Bull Toyota
Joey Logano in the Home Depot Toyota


I'm not used to such tiny rookie classes, or the general lack of name recognition in them. SPeed is at least familier, he's Lake Speed's boy I believe.

[RendeR]

I was really thrilled for Bill too. Hopefully their car will draft well and he'll run up front late.

I just hope my favorites steer clear of robby gordon and kurt *I hit everything but the pace car* bush.

[RendeR]

Gah, somebody get Gavin some coffee, he's still drunk. not impressed with his national anthem.

[CU Tiger]

could this anthem be drug out any longer? I never knew it was a 90 minute song

[RendeR]

Well you got the "drug" part right.....

[RendeR]

GOnna start up a fantasy thing here at FOFC. I hate the yahoo crap.

[TLK]

Originally Posted by RendeR

SPeed is at least familier, he's Lake Speed's boy I believe.

Nope. Speed is an open-wheel guy. No relation to Lake.

[RendeR]

Really? I could have sworn someone was talking about them in the same breath, maybe I just heard it wrong.

too bad, I could have supported him if he was related. Always liked Lake.

[CU Tiger]

Originally Posted by RendeR

GOnna start up a fantasy thing here at FOFC. I hate the yahoo crap.

Go for it Im in

[RendeR]

check the challenge thread

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by TLK

Nope. Speed is an open-wheel guy. No relation to Lake.

And is one of the names being mentioned (along Danica Patrick & Derek Daly's son whose name escapes me) in connection with the F1 team based in Charlotte that's supposed to officially start up toward the end of this month.

[cartman]

Originally Posted by JonInMiddleGA

And is one of the names being mentioned (along Danica Patrick & Derek Daly's son whose name escapes me) in connection with the F1 team based in Charlotte that's supposed to officially start up toward the end of this month.

Yeah, I was reading an article about that today.

SportingNews.com - Your expert source for NASCAR Auto Racing stats, scores, standings, blogs and fantasy news from NASCAR Auto Racing columnists

[JonInMiddleGA]

Matt Kenseth gets a rain-shortened Daytona 500 win.

[weegeebored]

Originally Posted by RendeR

Gah, somebody get Gavin some coffee, he's still drunk. not impressed with his national anthem.

Yeah, absolutely brutal. Wouldn't have made the first cut in Idol.

NASCAR lost me with all the wrecks caused by stupidity. Jr makes two huge driving errors, and then wrecks all of the leaders while he's a lap down trying to make up for them. And no penalty.

I turned it off after Menard's wreck. Simple physics -- two objects cannot occupy the same space simultaneously. Do these guys even know how to drive a race car?

I wish we could bring back the heyday of the Indy Car series.

[RendeR]

Originally Posted by weegeebored

Yeah, absolutely brutal. Wouldn't have made the first cut in Idol.

NASCAR lost me with all the wrecks caused by stupidity. Jr makes two huge driving errors, and then wrecks all of the leaders while he's a lap down trying to make up for them. And no penalty.

I turned it off after Menard's wreck. Simple physics -- two objects cannot occupy the same space simultaneously. Do these guys even know how to drive a race car?

I wish we could bring back the heyday of the Indy Car series.

The worst NASCAR race is still a million times more exciting than the BEST go kart race any day.

[RendeR]

I'm seriously annoyed at the Earnhardt Jr incident, he wiped out the best half dozen cars in the field and NASCAR never bats an eyelash at their golden boy.

Like father like son I guess.

I hate rain endings, Kenseth's car gets pushed out front for one lap and steals the most prestigious win in racing. Its almost as bad as Ward burton's wreck fest survival story a few years back.

Not impressed with much of anything about this race other than the fact that the CoT is doing its job by showing every drivers weaknesses.

[Galaxy]

I actually love the old IndyCar series (and even F1 back in it's heyday).

The rain-delay pissed me off (I mean, at least give it a little while before you call your suppose "Super Bowl".) I think NASCAR should run out at least this race all the way (until tomorrow). It's like ending the Super Bowl at the end of third quarter.

I was able to think it over why I don't like NASCAR:

1) The FOX coverage. Of course, I can't stand them in any sports.

2) The super-teams. The team limits should be 3 (and none of the "team sharing" crap). If your working with another team in terms of building cars, regardless of who owns the team, it should count.

3) The cookie-cutter, boring tracks (thanks Burton Smith). I won't watch any of the 1.5-mile races, with the exception of the Coke-Cola 600. I'll watch the last 10-20 laps.

4) The degree and competitive cautions are getting out of hand. I understand the safety issues, but it seems like it gets worst every year.

5) Race the whole race. What other sport calls a game at halftime? If you have to carry it over until Monday or Tuesday, do it.

6) The corporate and Hollywood influences that you attributed to earlier.

7) I'm still torn over the new "Chase For The Cup" format. I don't think it really makes the series any more exciting (your still down to 2, maybe 3, drivers, going in the last three weeks or so).

[RendeR]

Originally Posted by Galaxy

I actually love the old IndyCar series (and even F1 back in it's heyday).

The rain-delay pissed me off (I mean, at least give it a little while before you call your suppose "Super Bowl".) I think NASCAR should run out at least this race all the way (until tomorrow). It's like ending the Super Bowl at the end of third quarter.

I was able to think it over why I don't like NASCAR:

1) The FOX coverage. Of course, I can't stand them in any sports.

2) The super-teams. The team limits should be 3 (and none of the "team sharing" crap). If your working with another team in terms of building cars, regardless of who owns the team, it should count.

3) The cookie-cutter, boring tracks (thanks Burton Smith). I won't watch any of the 1.5-mile races, with the exception of the Coke-Cola 600. I'll watch the last 10-20 laps.

4) The degree and competitive cautions are getting out of hand. I understand the safety issues, but it seems like it gets worst every year.

5) Race the whole race. What other sport calls a game at halftime? If you have to carry it over until Monday or Tuesday, do it.

6) The corporate and Hollywood influences that you attributed to earlier.

7) I'm still torn over the new "Chase For The Cup" format. I don't think it really makes the series any more exciting (your still down to 2, maybe 3, drivers, going in the last three weeks or so).

The 1.5 mile tracks aren't the really boring ones, Michigan and California are. Kansas and chicago to a far lesser extent. Charlotte and Atlanta are two races I will never miss. What they need to do is build some newer modernized short tracks. Richmond, Martinsville and Bristol are three of the most exciting races on the schedule.


Realize though that if not for the chase format? Last years season is decided with 7-8 races to go. Kyle was out in front by a large margin. Getting it down to 2-3 races is a huge benefit. On top of the fact that the races directly prior to the chase were more exciting for those 2-3 teams still fighting to get in.

I don't necessarily LIKE the format, but I can't argue that it has brought far more interest into the late season for NASCAR.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by RendeR

I'm seriously annoyed at the Earnhardt Jr incident, he wiped out the best half dozen cars in the field and NASCAR never bats an eyelash at their golden boy.

{shrug} I've seen the below the yellow line incident several times now (I didn't see the other one, apparently he was involved in two things?) and can't understand how anybody is blaming him for that one. Looked like that was 100% Vickers to me. If you're going to push a guy down the track don't be surprised when he comes back up.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by Galaxy

The rain-delay pissed me off (I mean, at least give it a little while before you call your suppose "Super Bowl".) I think NASCAR should run out at least this race all the way (until tomorrow).

Minimum is two hours to dry that track, plus they're looking at the radar knowing what's coming. They're often loathe to call one soon enough most of the time so I tend to give them the benefit of the doubt on this one.

As for going to Monday or Tuesday that's something that's increasingly unrealistic. You're talking about running in front of empty stands & with no TV audience to speak of. The days of people being able to just call in with NASCAR flu are pretty much over in this job market. And at the end of the day it's a spectator sport more than a pure competition. If nobody's watching (as the mobile billboards go around the track) then there really isn't much point.

1) The FOX coverage. Of course, I can't stand them in any sports.

As opposed to the craptacular NBC coverage? Or Brent Musberger & Brad Daugherty for ABC? I miss the golden days of NASCAR on TV with CBS, ESPN's first go around or even TNN but those are gone. And Fox is heads & shoulders above what anybody has done during the Chase era.

re: tracks -- I'm with Render on this one I think, or at least in part. I'd like to see some modern short tracks brought into play. Or at the very least they could find a way to unfuck Bristol which went from the most entertaining event in sports period to dull in a hurry.

re: 4) The degree and competitive cautions are getting out of hand.

As long as we're stuck with Goodyear I'm afraid competitive cautions are a fact of life.

And they can shove the Chase squarely up their ass AFAIC, right along side the cookie cutter cars.

[weegeebored]

Originally Posted by RendeR

The worst NASCAR race is still a million times more exciting than the BEST go kart race any day.

Well, I guess if you believe that bumpin's racin', then yes you're probably right. Personally I think bumpin' today is more like Demolition Derby, but maybe that's just me.

[cartman]

My single favorite racing level and venue was CART at Laguna Seca. But for whatever reason they decided to move the race to downtown San Jose.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by cartman

My single favorite racing level and venue was CART at Laguna Seca. But for whatever reason they decided to move the race to downtown San Jose.

A four million dollar subsidy from the city of San Jose probably had a lot to do with that move.
http://ccin.menlopark.org/1224.html

The race was actually due to move back to L.S. but was canceled during the merger.

[Galaxy]

Originally Posted by JonInMiddleGA

Minimum is two hours to dry that track, plus they're looking at the radar knowing what's coming. They're often loathe to call one soon enough most of the time so I tend to give them the benefit of the doubt on this one.

As for going to Monday or Tuesday that's something that's increasingly unrealistic. You're talking about running in front of empty stands & with no TV audience to speak of. The days of people being able to just call in with NASCAR flu are pretty much over in this job market. And at the end of the day it's a spectator sport more than a pure competition. If nobody's watching (as the mobile billboards go around the track) then there really isn't much point.



As opposed to the craptacular NBC coverage? Or Brent Musberger & Brad Daugherty for ABC? I miss the golden days of NASCAR on TV with CBS, ESPN's first go around or even TNN but those are gone. And Fox is heads & shoulders above what anybody has done during the Chase era.

re: tracks -- I'm with Render on this one I think, or at least in part. I'd like to see some modern short tracks brought into play. Or at the very least they could find a way to unfuck Bristol which went from the most entertaining event in sports period to dull in a hurry.

re: 4) The degree and competitive cautions are getting out of hand.

As long as we're stuck with Goodyear I'm afraid competitive cautions are a fact of life.

And they can shove the Chase squarely up their ass AFAIC, right along side the cookie cutter cars.

I agree with you on all the coverage of the races now (NBC). Fox just annoys the hell of me with all of the graphics and useless stories.

I can understand the reasoning for calling the race. However, they called it so quick. Hell, they waited until what...11 o'clock at night to re-start the Coke-Cola 600 after a long delay. They keep pushing the race back more and more (I know it's to allow the west coast a better viewing time) each year.

I agree with you on the adding more short tracks to the schedule (replacing some of the 1.5-2 mile tracks). The night race at Bristol used to be one of the few races I would make sure I would watch. Now it sucks.

[Galaxy]

Originally Posted by cartman

Yeah, I was reading an article about that today.

SportingNews.com - Your expert source for NASCAR Auto Racing stats, scores, standings, blogs and fantasy news from NASCAR Auto Racing columnists

Why are the basing the team in Charlotte? You have 9 out of 17 races in Europe; with 2 in the Middle East. The only time you come to the Americas is two GPs in Canada and Brazil. Seems like huge bill for travel costs, along with the jet-lag that your drivers and support team will have. Your already screwed with only a $64 million budget and team of 100 people (Honda last year spent around $300 million on it's effort).

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by Galaxy

Why are the basing the team in Charlotte? You have 9 out of 17 races in Europe; with 2 in the Middle East. The only time you come to the Americas is two GPs in Canada and Brazil. Seems like huge bill for travel costs, along with the jet-lag that your drivers and support team will have. Your already screwed with only a $64 million budget and team of 100 people (Honda last year spent around $300 million on it's effort).

Of course that spending is what sent Honda out of F1, so I'm not sure that's exactly the benchmark anybody is going to be shooting for.

And they're working on having a sort of home away from home base in Europe, Spain I think it is, so it's not quite that bad.

Meanwhile Charlotte is the center of the motorsports universe in the U.S., if you're going to be an American based team I really don't know where else you're going to put it. Clearly they're planning to rely on that as they're already talking about the opportunities for outsourcing different tasks to the resources in the area.

edit to add: None of which is to say I think it's a good, or even viable, idea for a U.S. based team to compete in F1. But if you're going to do it that does seem like the only logical place to do it from.

[JonInMiddleGA]

I thought there was some interesting insight from Ken Squier including in the annual revisiting of the Yarborough-Allison fight story.

David Newton: Ken Squier's call of the 1979 Daytona 500 -- and the ensuing fight between Cale Yarborough and the Allison brothers -- holds up to this day. - ESPN
A lot has changed since then. NASCAR has grown into a multimillion-dollar business and its popularity is second-largest among television viewers. Fights are frowned upon.

Squier isn't sure it's all for the better. He says the sport has become homogenized to the point it has lost the mystique that made it popular.

He reminds that today's announcers seldom talk about danger. Safety wasn't even a word they used in his day, mainly because NASCAR founder Bill France Sr. didn't want them to.

"So there was a mystique about the drivers," Squier said. "They were what people were seeking, heroes bigger than life, people that took their lives in their bare hands. That put them in a special category.

"Now they talk about how safe it is. If it's that safe then what's the big deal?"

On the one hand, I've seen too many deaths of drivers in my lifetime & to this day can't really watch Earnhardt's crash without having problems keeping it together. On the other hand, I think Squier has a point about how the drivers simply don't have anywhere near the mystique they once hand & I think that's hurting the appeal quite a bit.

[Ryan S]

Originally Posted by Galaxy

Why are the basing the team in Charlotte? You have 9 out of 17 races in Europe; with 2 in the Middle East. The only time you come to the Americas is two GPs in Canada and Brazil

I think the Canadian GP has been dropped.

I doubt this team will make it to the grid. It has been years since a totally new team has joined F1, and many several big names within motorsport have tried and failed to bring teams into F1.

[Lathum]

Crazy wreck today, I have no idea how Carl Edwards walked away. It's amazing how far the safety technology has come.

[Galaxy]

Several fans were injured I believe.