World of Warcraft: Wrath of the Lich King

[spleen1015]

To be confirmed at Blizzcon....

http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y41...d/06ef8e57.jpg

[flere-imsaho]

Is this going to be a holiday release?

Not surprised that this was the next step, to be honest. The real question is what the following expansion will be, after they've mined Outland & Northrend.

[Coffee Warlord]

Heh. New level cap of 80.

Grrrrrrrrinnnnnnnnnnnd s'more.

[spleen1015]

Originally Posted by Coffee Warlord

Heh. New level cap of 80.

Grrrrrrrrinnnnnnnnnnnd s'more.

Grind what? Leveling is easy by questing.

[spleen1015]

Level cap raised to 80.

Takes place in Northrend

New Death Knight Hero Class

[bulletsponge]

*holds hands over ears* im not listening

[Schmidty]

Originally Posted by spleen1015

Level cap raised to 80.

Takes place in Northrend

New Death Knight Hero Class

That's the only new class? How is that going to balance out?

[SnowMan]

Hero Class = Jedi = Death of WoW?

[spleen1015]

Once you reach 80 and perform a long quest line, you can create a Death Knight character.

It starts at a high level and is meant to be used in the expansions end game content.

[spleen1015]

WoWInsider has a lot of good information about the new expansion.

[Rizon]

Originally Posted by spleen1015

Grind what? Leveling is easy by questing.

60 through 70 was just way too easy.

[thealmighty]

Originally Posted by Rizon

60 through 70 was just way too easy.

Yes it was, and kinda boring too (I did it twice before I quit playing).

[spleen1015]

Gamespy has a ton of new information on WotLK since Blizz had a WotLK day not too long ago.

You can find some videos here - hxxp://media.pc.gamespy.com/media/954/954150/vids_1.html

Check out the Sholazar Basin video for a peak at vehicle combat.

[mrsimperless]

60-70 was the best of times for me. Pretty much all I did was run instances. I healed as a shadow priest while collecting both +dps and +healing gear and leveling at the same time. I'm hoping 70-80 let's me go back to shadow healer, as heroics are no place for that.

[Groundhog]

I only just started playing WoW about 2 weeks ago. It's definately addictive...

[Vince]

Originally Posted by mrsimperless

60-70 was the best of times for me. Pretty much all I did was run instances. I healed as a shadow priest while collecting both +dps and +healing gear and leveling at the same time. I'm hoping 70-80 let's me go back to shadow healer, as heroics are no place for that.

Are you talking about only healing with VE? I've found that with a group of competent people around me, my Elemental Shaman can maintain good DPS (>500) and heal a heroic at the same time. It would never work in a PuG though.

That was a while back though...I've sort of sworn off the game. Spending far too much time trying to drag my scrubby-ass guild through 25-man raids.

[Julio Riddols]

I think I heard something about a porn spinoff for this.

Whorecraft, Bath With The Lick King or something.

[bhlloy]

Am I the only one who read the title as WoW: Wrath of the Lion King? That would have been an interesting crossover

[law90026]

In a sign Blizzard is catering more and more to casual gaming, all raid instances will have a 25 man and a 10 man version (with different loot tables though).

[spleen1015]

I'm sure those that care already know, but anyway...

Release Date - 11/13/2008

hxxp://www.gamespot.com/news/6197695.html?tag=result;title;0

[cuervo72]

Originally Posted by spleen1015

Level cap raised to 80.

You know, I'm really glad the CoH/CoV folks stick to their guns on not raising the level 50 cap. Not that I do a ton of things with my 50s, but leveling another ten levels every X months seems pointless to me.

Originally Posted by spleen1015

Once you reach 80 and perform a long quest line, you can create a Death Knight character.

It starts at a high level and is meant to be used in the expansions end game content.

Sounds like the epic ATs on CoX, except that you *do* have to level them up. A number of players have asked for the ability to roll characters at advanced levels (skip low-level tedium, or skip PvE entirely and roll for PvP purposes), others are very much against such an option. I'm curious how this will work for WoW.

[spleen1015]

That is the old way of being able to play a Death Knight. Today, all you need is a level 55 character on your account to be able to create a DK character. I believe this is the way it will be at release.

[sabotai]

Originally Posted by spleen1015

That is the old way of being able to play a Death Knight. Today, all you need is a level 55 character on your account to be able to create a DK character. I believe this is the way it will be at release.

This is how I heard it was going to be, but you can only create the Death Knight on a server where you have a level 55 or higher character.

[fantom1979]

I am still not sure about this expansion. Overall, adding new stuff is good, but I have not seen anything yet that is really getting me excited.

[tyketime]

I have come relatively late to the MMO genre. Last year, I started playing Guild Wars. This past summer, I started playing Lord Of The Rings online. I am really enjoying LOTRO and looking forward to the Mines of Moria expansion.

I've often looked at WoW, but frankly find it a bit daunting and am turning to my fellow players for their opinion. There is SO much information out there regarding WOW, and it has been around for SO many years, that I wonder if I would always be behind the learning curve and never catch up. As I understand it, this new expansion adds extra areas, regions,and characters to play. But you already have to be at a certain level in order to access the new stuff (no different than other MMO's... so I'm not bashing WOW or Blizzard). Like I said, I was also a little late to LOTRO, and I know you need to level up to 50 to really have a chance to survive the Mines of Moria. I don't want to rush through levelling in WOW just for the sake of getting to the cap, but if I take my time to enjoy the ride (which is my preferred playing style - 1 or 2 hours a night, 3-4 days a week), then I will surely be left behind.

Does this make sense? This is where I spin my wheels and talk myself out of giving it a try. But there still has to be a good reason millions and millions of players continue playing it years later.

Sorry if I'm rambling. Just looking for guidance from some of you more experienced MMoers.

Thanks!

[law90026]

I agree that WoW is probably daunting for a new player. Having said that, it is a casual-friendly game (during the levelling process) and the advantage of the expansion is that you're not really that far behind.

The expansion kinda makes everything equal to some extent since even experienced players will be doing the new content by the time a new player hits 80, unlike WoW right now when it can be really hard to find people to do normal instances (since they have been run repeatedly).

[JetsIn06]

Originally Posted by tyketime

I have come relatively late to the MMO genre. Last year, I started playing Guild Wars. This past summer, I started playing Lord Of The Rings online. I am really enjoying LOTRO and looking forward to the Mines of Moria expansion.

I've often looked at WoW, but frankly find it a bit daunting and am turning to my fellow players for their opinion. There is SO much information out there regarding WOW, and it has been around for SO many years, that I wonder if I would always be behind the learning curve and never catch up. As I understand it, this new expansion adds extra areas, regions,and characters to play. But you already have to be at a certain level in order to access the new stuff (no different than other MMO's... so I'm not bashing WOW or Blizzard). Like I said, I was also a little late to LOTRO, and I know you need to level up to 50 to really have a chance to survive the Mines of Moria. I don't want to rush through levelling in WOW just for the sake of getting to the cap, but if I take my time to enjoy the ride (which is my preferred playing style - 1 or 2 hours a night, 3-4 days a week), then I will surely be left behind.

Does this make sense? This is where I spin my wheels and talk myself out of giving it a try. But there still has to be a good reason millions and millions of players continue playing it years later.

Sorry if I'm rambling. Just looking for guidance from some of you more experienced MMoers.

Thanks!

I wouldn't worry too much. My girlfriend and I play WoW. We started about three years ago, and I think there were about 6 million players then. It's doubled since then I believe, but there are also more servers. There are three reasons why I don't believe you will be left behind.

1. Alts: Many, many players have multiple characters. You can make as many as you want. Many have multiple 70's, so as you play, there will be plenty of lower level players to play with.

2. New Realms: New realms open all of the time. You could technically be the first person to complete the lowest level dungeon. So in that case, you would be ahead of everyone else in that realm.

3. Crap. Forgot what I was going to say.

Anyway, I'm kind of in a similar boat to you. I just started a new character a month ago. I play VERY slowly, maybe once a week. You'll be fine.

[JetsIn06]

Originally Posted by law90026

I agree that WoW is probably daunting for a new player. Having said that, it is a casual-friendly game (during the levelling process) and the advantage of the expansion is that you're not really that far behind.

The expansion kinda makes everything equal to some extent since even experienced players will be doing the new content by the time a new player hits 80, unlike WoW right now when it can be really hard to find people to do normal instances (since they have been run repeatedly).

Yes. I agree. I've considered moving my character to a newer realm while leveling, and then moving again to a more popular server when I get to the cap.

[tyketime]

Originally Posted by JetsIn06

Yes. I agree. I've considered moving my character to a newer realm while leveling, and then moving again to a more popular server when I get to the cap.

Do you have to pay a fee to move your character from one server to another?

[flere-imsaho]

$25 to move a character from one server to another.

In my opinion, WoW is very easy to learn and pick up. The introductory quests are designed in a way to get you used to the interface and your character, and you kind of go from there.

Lots of people complain about levelling up now because they've done it several times, and it starts to get repetitive on your 3rd or 4th character (or 2nd, if you bore easily). On the contrary, I find that levelling is pretty fun - there's a ton of interesting quests and places to explore.

And that's really the bottom line. There's a ton of interesting quests and places to explore and I personally don't feel anyone should feel they're in a rush to get to max level (70 now, 80 once the expac hits).

As for being casual-friendly, it absolutely is. You can log on for 30 minutes and find something fun to do, even if it's just completing a single quest. I'm a very casual player (after 4 years of on-and-off play, I still have only 1 max-level character), and I've found WoW very enjoyable. Sure, I'm always "behind" the max-levellers, but who cares? I catch up to them eventually and see some of that "endgame" stuff then.


If you're interested, I'm a part of a large, fun, and helpful guild on the US-PVP server Chromaggus. I'd be happy to vouch for you if you wanted to roll a character there. The main benefit you'd find is that there'd always be someone around of whom to ask questions (not necessarily me, but the other guild members). It's not necessary (WoW's generally pretty simple to understand the basic concepts), but it's nice.


Lastly, the best compiled information source, in my opinion, on WoW is wowwiki.com. Other different sites do it better for specific topics, but since most of them are linked off of wowwiki.com anyway, starting there to get some background is ideal, if that's what you want.

[cuervo72]

Wow, $25! It's only $9.99 in CoH.

[Surtt]

Originally Posted by flere-imsaho

As for being casual-friendly, it absolutely is. You can log on for 30 minutes and find something fun to do, even if it's just completing a single quest. I'm a very casual player (after 4 years of on-and-off play, I still have only 1 max-level character), and I've found WoW very enjoyable. Sure, I'm always "behind" the max-levellers, but who cares? I catch up to them eventually and see some of that "endgame" stuff then.

I had just the opposite experience.
Raid or DIE!

Once you do max out, there is very little to do but raid or farm. The only way to get better was better equipment which meant raiding. When I was playing you almost had to raid (2 or 3 nights a week and I was still falling behind the curve). I didn't even see about 80% of the original wow high end content because the expansion came out and no one wanted to go through the "old" stuff because it didn't have any good lootz. After so long, I just got tired of the treadmill.


Unless things have change radically, you can be a casual player.
But you will always be a second class citizen.


YMMV.
That was just my experience. Well, also the experience of all my friend that played too.
(all eventually quit for the same reasons.)

[Fidatelo]

Originally Posted by Surtt

I had just the opposite experience.
Raid or DIE!

Once you do max out, there is very little to do but raid or farm. The only way to get better was better equipment which meant raiding. When I was playing you almost had to raid (2 or 3 nights a week and I was still falling behind the curve). I didn't even see about 80% of the original wow high end content because the expansion came out and no one wanted to go through the "old" stuff because it didn't have any good lootz. After so long, I just got tired of the treadmill.


Unless things have change radically, you can be a casual player.
But you will always be a second class citizen.


YMMV.
That was just my experience. Well, also the experience of all my friend that played too.
(all eventually quit for the same reasons.)

I guess it depends what you want out of the game. Even if you have no aspirations of ever raiding, I think you get your money's worth just leveling up and seeing what you see along the way. If at that point you quit because you don't like the end-game, then so be it, but I don't know many people that would feel they wasted their money.

I do agree that end-game is lackluster for casuals though. I found that I could play very casually and get good enjoyment out of the game to a point, but eventually I had to step up my playing time to unacceptable levels in order to progress. At that point I had to quit before it took over my life.

[Surtt]

Dola-

I didn't mean to sound totally negative about WOW.
I played for a long time and wasted an embarrassing number of hour of my life playing it.

Just keep in mind: the game can be very addictive and changes radically after you finish leveling.

[Bearcat729]

It is nice to see that they are making it easier for casual players to see end game stuff with the 10 man or 25 man versions of all the raids. It is much easier to find 10 people to do some end game raids than it is to find 25.

[Surtt]

Originally Posted by Fidatelo

I do agree that end-game is lackluster for casuals though. I found that I could play very casually and get good enjoyment out of the game to a point, but eventually I had to step up my playing time to unacceptable levels in order to progress. At that point I had to quit before it took over my life.

This is about what I went through.
I got tired of the raiding grind, but could not find many other end-game players that wanted to do instances (for the millionth time.) After a very short time doing pickup groups (not recommended), I ended up getting board and quitting.

[flere-imsaho]

Surtt and Fidatelo raise good points and again, it's personal opinion, but I think endgame is still pretty good for the casual (and got better in TBC and will get better in WoTLK).

Here's what you can do in endgame as a casual:

*If you can spend 2-3 hours one night a week, and are in a decently-organized guild, you can likely raid the less difficult raid instances.

*PVP in battlegrounds. Some enjoy it, some hate it, though.

*Do daily quests for cash, reputation and loot.

*Get involved in seasonal events, like the just-ended Brewfest.

*Continue doing regular quests for cash.

*Pwn your way through lower-level dungeons you couldn't find a group to do at the appropriate level.

*Level up an alt and see different parts of the world (i.e. you definitely don't have to hit every zone in order to level up, so several levelling-up paths do exist, from an XP-accumulation standpoint).

*Run max-level non-raid instances and Heroic versions of instances. These tend to take less than 90 minutes with a competent group.


I did all of the above when my Orc Hunter finally got to 70. While I've never seen the Tier 5 or Tier 6 raid instances, because I'm not geared enough, I have seen Karazhan and the Tier 4 instances courtesy of my guild.

Again, to each his/her own, but I've still found enjoyment in WoW as a very casual player. I think there's a home there for everyone from the folks who want a periodic temporary diversion to those who want a serious game experience.

[Surtt]

I haven't played in a year or 2, so things might be different now.

Probably the biggest influence would be your guild.
If you can find one with others that are as committed (or casual) it would help you a lot.


I am sure I will end up going back for the Litch King expansion, at some point.
I am both looking forward to it and dreading it.

[tyketime]

I think I should get the WOW Battlechest to see if I really like it. That will give me a month of playtime before WOTLK comes out.

Resistance... is... futile....

I will be assimilated

[Fidatelo]

Originally Posted by flere-imsaho

Surtt and Fidatelo raise good points and again, it's personal opinion, but I think endgame is still pretty good for the casual (and got better in TBC and will get better in WoTLK).

Here's what you can do in endgame as a casual:

*If you can spend 2-3 hours one night a week, and are in a decently-organized guild, you can likely raid the less difficult raid instances.

*PVP in battlegrounds. Some enjoy it, some hate it, though.

*Do daily quests for cash, reputation and loot.

*Get involved in seasonal events, like the just-ended Brewfest.

*Continue doing regular quests for cash.

*Pwn your way through lower-level dungeons you couldn't find a group to do at the appropriate level.

*Level up an alt and see different parts of the world (i.e. you definitely don't have to hit every zone in order to level up, so several levelling-up paths do exist, from an XP-accumulation standpoint).

*Run max-level non-raid instances and Heroic versions of instances. These tend to take less than 90 minutes with a competent group.


I did all of the above when my Orc Hunter finally got to 70. While I've never seen the Tier 5 or Tier 6 raid instances, because I'm not geared enough, I have seen Karazhan and the Tier 4 instances courtesy of my guild.

Again, to each his/her own, but I've still found enjoyment in WoW as a very casual player. I think there's a home there for everyone from the folks who want a periodic temporary diversion to those who want a serious game experience.

I think where things break down for me with respect to raids, or even grouped instance runs, is the uninterrupted time commitment. I will often put a couple hours into a video game on a given evening, but it has to be something that I can pause or put down if my wife needs a hand with something or otherwise just wants to discuss something for a few minutes, or if the dog needs a walk, or any other interruption comes up. I can't completely ignore my real life for 2-3 hours at a time, and unfortunately that's what a game like WoW requires when it comes to that portion of the game. I think that's the line that separates casual from non-casual. A casual gamer might put in a similar number of hours, but just can't make the commitments that a non-casual gamer can make.

[flere-imsaho]

Fidatelo - absolutely, and I have the same issue (especially with a new baby). That's why I've only been on, maybe, 4-5 actual raids.

With 5-man instances, it can help to have a good guild. If someone's putting together a 5-man run for X, and I'm online, I'll say "I'd love to do it, but if the baby wakes up, you'll have to kick me and find a replacement." Usually that works very well.

Having said all that, I'm going to assume this is an issue for MMOs in general.

[Fidatelo]

Originally Posted by flere-imsaho

Fidatelo - absolutely, and I have the same issue (especially with a new baby). That's why I've only been on, maybe, 4-5 actual raids.

With 5-man instances, it can help to have a good guild. If someone's putting together a 5-man run for X, and I'm online, I'll say "I'd love to do it, but if the baby wakes up, you'll have to kick me and find a replacement." Usually that works very well.

Having said all that, I'm going to assume this is an issue for MMOs in general.

Yes, this is not a WoW specific issue, although I think the length of the raids/instances is part of the problem. I know they tried to address that a bit with the last expansion, so perhaps it isn't as bad as I remember, but I know that even doing things like Scholomance was pretty much a 2-3 hours commitment for me at the time.

If I was making an MMO geared towards casuals, I would break everything down to 15-30 minute chunks. Even if overarching 'instance' in question would take 2+ hours, I'd make it so that you could essentially create a 'save point' every once in awhile and just instantly get back to it when you wanted to continue.

[Surtt]

Originally Posted by Fidatelo

A casual gamer might put in a similar number of hours, but just can't make the commitments that a non-casual gamer can make.

I think you are underestimating the time non-casual gamers spend.
I was playing 20+ (probably closer to 30) hours a week and still falling behind.

[Fidatelo]

Originally Posted by Surtt

I think you are underestimating the time non-casual gamers spend.
I was playing 20+ (probably closer to 30) hours a week and still falling behind.

No, I'm saying that truely casual players are a different lot than people perhaps like yourself, who are still a separate and distinct group from the hardcore guys. I don't even think about the hardcore guys, they are so far out of my casual league that they don't even matter.

[Surtt]

Originally Posted by Fidatelo

No, I'm saying that truely casual players are a different lot than people perhaps like yourself, who are still a separate and distinct group from the hardcore guys. I don't even think about the hardcore guys, they are so far out of my casual league that they don't even matter.

I was specifically commenting on.

Originally Posted by Fidatelo

A casual gamer might put in a similar number of hours

I considered myself casual compared to the hardcore guys.

[Ryche]

For casual players, I think there is a ton to do in WoW. I've been playing it off and on for 3 years now and the character I'm playing now just hit 61 (way to many alts and restarts, the highest of any I've had. Even if you max out a character on one side, you could always level up another character on the other side playing a different class, and it would be almost a whole new game.

[law90026]

Re endgame:

It's a valid point that WoW end-game is raid or die (or Arena or die for some).

Having said that, 10-man raid instances are going to be a huge boon in that sense since it's so much easier to get the manpower together for smaller raids. From personal experience, 10-mans are also more fun because these tend to be people you like ... as opposed to larger raids where you often play with people you're ambivalent about or potentially dislike but have little choice because of the numbers game.

I think what we're seeing right now is a progressive dumbing down of WoW, what with the upcoming character changes. Tanking is going to be a whole lot easier and DPS can be even less focused on what they're doing now as a result. Not sure how healing will play out but reports are that it will not be harder than it is currently. In turn, this will likely mean easier instances/raids, rather than the current min-maxing that takes place in terms of raid composition.

However, if you don't like raiding, then WoW is probably not the game for you. It is a huge obstacle but, having said that, due to the sheer number of people playing the game, it will be possible to find a guild that can match your schedule and playstyle (unless you're totally unrealistic). On top of that, server transfers are now pretty much unrestricted (save for a 1 month cooling off period), unlike before when PvE server characters could only go to other PvE servers.

I wasn't actually looking forward to WotLK to be honest but some of the upcoming changes do look fun/exciting and that's why I'll be playing it.

[flere-imsaho]

Actually raiding in WoW, if anything, is becoming more diverse and interesting.

Back in "vanilla" WoW, most bosses were "tank-and-spank" and everyone complained that all most people did was press the same button over-and-over-and-over again. The fact that you had to get 40 people together at the same time just made it even more annoying.

In TBC Blizzard gave a lot of the bosses more "tricks" and the boss fights more variety. Now as a DPS you might be DPSing, sure, but you'll also be doing CC (if you can), dodging out of the way of AOE attacks, activating various triggers in the instance (Cores for Vashj, Cubes for Mags, Beams elsewhere, etc....). Plus, now you only need 25 people.

Indications are that this variety is going to continue to expand in WoTLK, and now every raid instance can be done with either 10 or 25 people (with a corresponding level of difficulty, of course).

Now, I don't raid much, but in talking to people I know who raid, the feeling it that it's much, much better today than it was back in the day when your only option was to beat your head against the wall in MC for 5 hours a night.

[tyketime]

OK... I picked up the WOW Battlechest over the weekend and have created my first character - currently a Level 10 Priest. So far I have to say I am enjoying it and feel I will get my money's worth.

So I started to just browse around some of the WOW sites and forums. I see all sorts of advertisements for Levelling Guides & Addons. I think I would like to pick up a good map reference (so any suggestions on that would be appreciated ).

But I also wanted to find out from you whether you use any of these tools... and more importantly, why? For example, I read a review of one of the tools where the reviewer said he doesn't even read the Quest Log anymore and sometimes forgets what quests he's even doing. I think that's overkill for what I'm looking for. Especially for my first few characters. How much do you rely on other sites or tools to give you the info you need for a quest vs figuring it out on your own? I know I end up running back and forth across the same areas whereas a tool would have you doing them in a certain sequential order to get them done quicker. But for an MMO, is quicker always better?

I'm sure there is a good balance between self-discovery and complete reliance on the Addons. What's that balance for you?

[sabotai]

If you are looking for immersion, then no, quicker is not better. My first time playing through WoW, I figured out everything on my own. If you read the quest text, it's pretty easy to figure it out. Quicker is better for leveling alts.

Do not buy anything for WoW. Most of the people selling guides are total rip offs. Everything you will ever need to know for mobs, quests, reputation, etc. you can find for free.

WoWWiki - Your guide to the World of Warcraft - The best general information site for WoW.
Wowhead: Making load screens bearable since 2006. - Look up just about any item, quest, mob, etc. for information on it. When I get stuck on a quest, this is where I go.

This is Cartographer
http://wow.curse.com/downloads/wow-a...tographer.aspx

This will remove the "fog of war" that you have on your maps so you can see everything, and gives extra info on the zones. For someone playing solo and casually, this is really the only MOD you need. Seriously, the whole world is mostly settled. Not having maps of every zone off the bat is kinda silly if you think about it.

If you want to start selling stuff on the AH, I'd recommend downloading Auctioneer as well. This will save information about everything on the AH and give suggestion on what you should price things at (beware, people will post things on the AH at insane prices and skew the results here. I only use the suggested price for items that have been seen a lot of times.). It will also give you a list of really good deals (again, beware that results will be off for rarely seen items).

And above all else, anyone charging you money for their guides or other products for WoW is trying to rip you off.