New OOTP patch=Hot Mess

stevew · 10-19-2009, 11:56 AM

Hats off to the developers. They've now created a situation where everyone has to be on the same exact patch version or their game is incompatible. Why this is a clusterfuck is cause if you are in more than one league you may have to pick and choose which one to stay on cause of the patch.

Oh and not to mention that Mac users are fucked cause they're not patched and there's another patch this week cause, you guessed it, there's a slight problem with the new patch.

It is one thing to not have one version not be compatible with another. But to have 10.3 and 10.2 not to work together is retarded

DanGarion · 10-19-2009, 12:06 PM

Welcome to Hollywood!

stevew · 10-19-2009, 12:07 PM

User A runs the mac version=He's boned unless we stay on the old version.

User B runs the Windows version, one of his leagues that he runs has already switched. So he either runs two versions or drops out.

User C is in multiple leagues, some have upgraded, others have not. Either he runs multiple versions or drops out of certain leagues.

Tell me, how does this work in a sane world.

I could understand if the commish had to have the most updated version in order to read exports from both. But not when the commish version only reads exports from the same exact version.

I never want to upgrade versions midseason if possible, but it looks like I might have to.

I mean, unless I want to suspend game action for several weeks.

cuervo72 · 10-19-2009, 12:19 PM

Hey, maybe it's a good thing FOBL is still on OOTP9.

lighthousekeeper · 10-19-2009, 12:40 PM

forcing everyone to be on the same patch doesn't seem unreasonable to me. it probably helps avoid potential support issues.

Subby · 10-19-2009, 12:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cuervo72

Hey, maybe it's a good thing FOBL is still on OOTP9.

No kidding. I wonder why Markus hates his customers so much.

Marc Vaughan · 10-19-2009, 12:51 PM

I can understand this being frustrating - especially with the Mac side of things, but they're fixing the issue as promptly as possible and imho its great to see a small indie dev running active support for non-windows platform.

PS - While there isn't 'back compatibility' for leagues (which is imho reasonable) - you can always keep two installations active I believe if you're in leagues running differing versions; ie. install the old version to a seperate area to the updated version.

cartman · 10-19-2009, 12:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Marc Vaughan

PS - While there isn't 'back compatibility' for leagues (which is imho reasonable) - you can always keep two installations active I believe if you're in leagues running differing versions; ie. install the old version to a seperate area to the updated version.

No, since these are minor versions of a major release, it is one or the other.

DanGarion · 10-19-2009, 12:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Marc Vaughan

I can understand this being frustrating - especially with the Mac side of things, but they're fixing the issue as promptly as possible and imho its great to see a small indie dev running active support for non-windows platform.

PS - While there isn't 'back compatibility' for leagues (which is imho reasonable) - you can always keep two installations active I believe if you're in leagues running differing versions; ie. install the old version to a seperate area to the updated version.

A patch shouldn't be released till all versions are done... Especially in a game that uses multiplayer. And an end user shouldn't be forced to use multiple versions of the software to deal with being in multiple leagues. In previous versions of OOTP usually the only one that HAD to HAVE the patch was the one running the league, all the others could get by without the patch during the transition.

miked · 10-19-2009, 01:02 PM

This is especially silly considering this patch has been "done" for well over a week and merely waiting on eLicense for something.

stevew · 10-19-2009, 01:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by lighthousekeeper

forcing everyone to be on the same patch doesn't seem unreasonable to me. it probably helps avoid potential support issues.

well, considering an export file is probably a small amount of data one sends to the commish, yeah, this is unreasonable.

Icy · 10-19-2009, 01:57 PM

Umm isn't that the standard for every game? that everybody needs to run the same version, specially if it has fixes/tweaks for multiplayer.

DanGarion · 10-19-2009, 01:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Icy

Umm isn't that the standard for every game? that everybody needs to run the same version, specially if it has fixes/tweaks for multiplayer.

It didn't used to be for OOTP.

stevew · 10-19-2009, 02:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Icy

Umm isn't that the standard for every game? that everybody needs to run the same version, specially if it has fixes/tweaks for multiplayer.

Yeah-didn't used to be for MP.

At least let the commish run the newest version, and it actually be able to READ the older versions exports.

I mean, I'm baffled at how bad this move was by the developers.

stevew · 10-19-2009, 02:55 PM

There should never ever be a situation where every league across the OOTP universe has to switch at the exact same moment to a new patch. And there should never be a situation where I have to tell owners "we're running this patch or quit."

DanGarion · 10-19-2009, 02:56 PM

I've posted in the Tech Support section, to add your anger here is the link.

Patching and Online Leagues - OOTP Developments Forums

spleen1015 · 10-19-2009, 02:59 PM

Why does it have to be a "run this patch or quit" scenario? I know it is an issue, but you could be patient until everything gets worked out.

stevew · 10-19-2009, 03:05 PM

Yeah, but patience is limiting. Especially this patch which was already at least 2-3 weeks later. I mean do I want to shelve a league for a month just cause they screwed this.

I just want to run fake baseball games and enjoy fake baseball.

cody8200 · 10-19-2009, 03:13 PM

Pretty much every multi player game in the world requires everyone be on the same patch. Just try playing any PS3 or XBox game online without being on it. The patch fixed over 300 bugs. Without everyone being on the same version, it would be madness. I agree that the Mac patch should be out at the same time but to complain about everyone having to be on the same patch is crazy (because its the standard, not the exception). Asa far as old version of OOTp working before like this. The game has many many more features than it used to. At least the game still works with old versions of OOTP.

rjolley · 10-19-2009, 03:27 PM

The other side of that argument is with the PS3 and Xbox, you're playing live against other players. With OOTP, you're sending a text file, so the need to be on the same version could be minimized. You could have the commish on the newest version with members a patch or 2 behind. Just have the commish's version have the ability to convert the exports to the new version if needed.

stevew · 10-19-2009, 03:30 PM

And Xbox live would require everyone to upgrade to the newest version. Other leagues/commish might not want to upgrade midseason(and I can't blame them for this). So if you're in a multiple league scenerio this is madness.

Like i said, it's a hot mess.

They may as well went ahead and disabled everyone's EXE and did a force upgrade if they were going to do something like this.

DanGarion · 10-19-2009, 03:36 PM

Yeah it would be better to force the patch on everyone immediately then to think people should install multiple versions to support people in more then one league.

Of course Mac users would still be stuck in the mud...

Danny · 10-19-2009, 03:55 PM

Patches for all versions, all sites should have been released at the same time. That said, if that was done, I have no issue with everyone being required to have the latest version. I am sure there is a reason for this based upon things that were fixed.

johnnyshaka · 10-19-2009, 04:33 PM

Rushing to patch after a "major patch" release is playing with fire in the first place...there is almost always another "minor" patch released shortly afterwards to fix any additional issues.

As an aside, the patch fucked up my install and I'm sick of troubleshooting this shit. I guess it's just a reminder as to why I haven't purchased OOTP for several years...and likely won't ever again.

stevew · 10-19-2009, 04:35 PM

yeah, I can't forsee us upgrading from OOTPX for at least a version or two. I enjoy the hell out of it, but I'm not apt to just give them 40 dollars of my own money every year for the fun of it.

Arles · 10-19-2009, 05:53 PM

I ran into this with BBCF when an import issue was causing errors with updating saves. There was also a smaller, "unknown" issue that no one would have noticed but could have impacted the import's stability. So, on one of my old updates everyone had to be atleast a certain patch level.

It can be frustrating, but there are times where in order to guarantee league stability - you need to have everyone on the same version. Knowing Marcus, I would say just to give him a sync all the versions and it shouldn't be an issue going forward.

lighthousekeeper · 10-19-2009, 07:00 PM

i think ootpx is in general a very solid release.

stevew · 10-19-2009, 07:30 PM

Yeah. For the most part I agree.

I wish they would have made us more aware that the patch was an all or nothing thing.

I'm fairly sure they track online leagues. A little note asking every league to upgrade on or by a certain date "for the greater good"

Markus Heinsohn · 10-20-2009, 03:13 AM

There were many online league related bugs fixed which results in team exports/imports being incompatible between versions. It has been that way in the past a few times already, so nothing really new here. Online leagues should make sure that all people run the same version anyway.

People who play in several online leagues can simply keep two different .exe files of OOTP, the new one and one old version for league who have not yet converted.

Regarding the Mac/Linux version, there was one licensing issue out of our control which needs to be fixed first. An updated patch for all platforms will be released in a couple of days.

So, all is good, no need to be upset

Markus

Axxon · 10-20-2009, 05:04 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by johnnyshaka

Rushing to patch after a "major patch" release is playing with fire in the first place...there is almost always another "minor" patch released shortly afterwards to fix any additional issues.

As an aside, the patch fucked up my install and I'm sick of troubleshooting this shit. I guess it's just a reminder as to why I haven't purchased OOTP for several years...and likely won't ever again.

So, just to be clear here, the patch fucked up your install of a version of OOTP that you bought several years ago? Really, did you think the patch worked on more than the latest version of the game? That seems unrealistic.

cody8200 · 10-20-2009, 06:35 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by johnnyshaka

Rushing to patch after a "major patch" release is playing with fire in the first place...there is almost always another "minor" patch released shortly afterwards to fix any additional issues.

As an aside, the patch fucked up my install and I'm sick of troubleshooting this shit. I guess it's just a reminder as to why I haven't purchased OOTP for several years...and likely won't ever again.

If you haven't purchased the game, how did you get it? Gift or theft?

stevew · 10-20-2009, 06:41 AM

This was the first version he bought in several years.

Axxon · 10-20-2009, 07:00 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by stevew

This was the first version he bought in several years.

I don't know. I haven't bought a version in years isn't the same as I hadn't bought a version in years.

stevew · 10-20-2009, 07:24 AM

He is in my league. I would assume he acquired a legal copy even if he did pay for it with Loonies

Axxon · 10-20-2009, 08:13 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by stevew

He is in my league. I would assume he acquired a legal copy even if he did pay for it with Loonies

To be clear, I never thought he had an illegal copy. I thought he had an older version.

Nice Guy Eddie · 10-20-2009, 11:30 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Marc Vaughan

I can understand this being frustrating - especially with the Mac side of things, but they're fixing the issue as promptly as possible and imho its great to see a small indie dev running active support for non-windows platform.

PS - While there isn't 'back compatibility' for leagues (which is imho reasonable) - you can always keep two installations active I believe if you're in leagues running differing versions; ie. install the old version to a seperate area to the updated version.

It's actually a great tip of the cap to you, and SI Marc.

Subby · 10-20-2009, 12:27 PM

See? I told you people that Markus loves his customers.

Mizzou B-ball fan · 10-20-2009, 12:29 PM

I'll tip my cap to Marcus for entering this maelstrom.

Not many would be so brave.

DanGarion · 10-20-2009, 01:03 PM

Well when a league generates $900 of revenue for you, I'm sure it's best to love the people that give it to you. Especially when the league has been around for multiple versions of the game...

I do appreciate it though.

johnnyshaka · 10-20-2009, 01:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by stevew

This was the first version he bought in several years.

Correct...I'm sorry I wasn't more clear. And I also used twonies, not just loonies, to purchase this copy.

cody8200 · 10-20-2009, 03:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by johnnyshaka

Correct...I'm sorry I wasn't more clear. And I also used twonies, not just loonies, to purchase this copy.

Aha, Good show then. Hopefully this Friday's patch fixes up all of these issues for both Macs and PC's.

Sgran · 10-21-2009, 05:13 PM

Did i ever tell you about the time my center fielder dropped a routing fly ball to lose game 7 of the world series? The ball was hit by the opposing team's relief pitcher in his first official at bat. Does this latest patch fix this bug?

10-19-2009, 12:06 PM	#2
DanGarion Coordinator Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: The Great Northwest	Welcome to Hollywood! __________________ Los Angeles Dodgers Check out the FOFC Groups on Facebook! and Reddit! DON'T REPORT ME BRO!

10-19-2009, 12:07 PM	#3
stevew Hall Of Famer Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: the yo'	User A runs the mac version=He's boned unless we stay on the old version. User B runs the Windows version, one of his leagues that he runs has already switched. So he either runs two versions or drops out. User C is in multiple leagues, some have upgraded, others have not. Either he runs multiple versions or drops out of certain leagues. Tell me, how does this work in a sane world. I could understand if the commish had to have the most updated version in order to read exports from both. But not when the commish version only reads exports from the same exact version. I never want to upgrade versions midseason if possible, but it looks like I might have to. I mean, unless I want to suspend game action for several weeks. Last edited by stevew : 10-19-2009 at 12:21 PM.

10-19-2009, 12:19 PM	#4
cuervo72 Head Coach Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Maryland	Hey, maybe it's a good thing FOBL is still on OOTP9. __________________ null

10-19-2009, 12:40 PM	#5
lighthousekeeper College Starter Join Date: Oct 2000	forcing everyone to be on the same patch doesn't seem unreasonable to me. it probably helps avoid potential support issues. __________________ ...

10-19-2009, 01:02 PM	#10
miked College Starter Join Date: Jun 2001 Location: The Dirty	This is especially silly considering this patch has been "done" for well over a week and merely waiting on eLicense for something. __________________ Commish of the United Baseball League (OOTP 6.5)

10-19-2009, 12:51 PM	#7
Marc Vaughan SI Games Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: Melbourne, FL	I can understand this being frustrating - especially with the Mac side of things, but they're fixing the issue as promptly as possible and imho its great to see a small indie dev running active support for non-windows platform. PS - While there isn't 'back compatibility' for leagues (which is imho reasonable) - you can always keep two installations active I believe if you're in leagues running differing versions; ie. install the old version to a seperate area to the updated version.

10-19-2009, 01:57 PM	#12
Icy Pro Starter Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: Toledo - Spain	Umm isn't that the standard for every game? that everybody needs to run the same version, specially if it has fixes/tweaks for multiplayer. __________________

10-19-2009, 02:55 PM	#15
stevew Hall Of Famer Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: the yo'	There should never ever be a situation where every league across the OOTP universe has to switch at the exact same moment to a new patch. And there should never be a situation where I have to tell owners "we're running this patch or quit."

10-19-2009, 02:56 PM	#16
DanGarion Coordinator Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: The Great Northwest	I've posted in the Tech Support section, to add your anger here is the link. Patching and Online Leagues - OOTP Developments Forums __________________ Los Angeles Dodgers Check out the FOFC Groups on Facebook! and Reddit! DON'T REPORT ME BRO!

10-19-2009, 02:59 PM	#17
spleen1015 Coordinator Join Date: Sep 2003	Why does it have to be a "run this patch or quit" scenario? I know it is an issue, but you could be patient until everything gets worked out. __________________ Why choose failure when success is an option?

10-19-2009, 03:05 PM	#18
stevew Hall Of Famer Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: the yo'	Yeah, but patience is limiting. Especially this patch which was already at least 2-3 weeks later. I mean do I want to shelve a league for a month just cause they screwed this. I just want to run fake baseball games and enjoy fake baseball. Last edited by stevew : 10-19-2009 at 03:05 PM.

10-19-2009, 03:13 PM	#19
cody8200 High School Varsity Join Date: Nov 2000	Pretty much every multi player game in the world requires everyone be on the same patch. Just try playing any PS3 or XBox game online without being on it. The patch fixed over 300 bugs. Without everyone being on the same version, it would be madness. I agree that the Mac patch should be out at the same time but to complain about everyone having to be on the same patch is crazy (because its the standard, not the exception). Asa far as old version of OOTp working before like this. The game has many many more features than it used to. At least the game still works with old versions of OOTP.

10-19-2009, 03:27 PM	#20
rjolley College Starter Join Date: Dec 2000 Location: Roseville, CA	The other side of that argument is with the PS3 and Xbox, you're playing live against other players. With OOTP, you're sending a text file, so the need to be on the same version could be minimized. You could have the commish on the newest version with members a patch or 2 behind. Just have the commish's version have the ability to convert the exports to the new version if needed.

10-19-2009, 03:30 PM	#21
stevew Hall Of Famer Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: the yo'	And Xbox live would require everyone to upgrade to the newest version. Other leagues/commish might not want to upgrade midseason(and I can't blame them for this). So if you're in a multiple league scenerio this is madness. Like i said, it's a hot mess. They may as well went ahead and disabled everyone's EXE and did a force upgrade if they were going to do something like this.

10-19-2009, 03:36 PM	#22
DanGarion Coordinator Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: The Great Northwest	Yeah it would be better to force the patch on everyone immediately then to think people should install multiple versions to support people in more then one league. Of course Mac users would still be stuck in the mud... __________________ Los Angeles Dodgers Check out the FOFC Groups on Facebook! and Reddit! DON'T REPORT ME BRO!

10-19-2009, 03:55 PM	#23
Danny Head Coach Join Date: Jul 2001	Patches for all versions, all sites should have been released at the same time. That said, if that was done, I have no issue with everyone being required to have the latest version. I am sure there is a reason for this based upon things that were fixed.

10-19-2009, 04:33 PM	#24
johnnyshaka College Benchwarmer Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Edmonton, AB	Rushing to patch after a "major patch" release is playing with fire in the first place...there is almost always another "minor" patch released shortly afterwards to fix any additional issues. As an aside, the patch fucked up my install and I'm sick of troubleshooting this shit. I guess it's just a reminder as to why I haven't purchased OOTP for several years...and likely won't ever again.

10-19-2009, 04:35 PM	#25
stevew Hall Of Famer Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: the yo'	yeah, I can't forsee us upgrading from OOTPX for at least a version or two. I enjoy the hell out of it, but I'm not apt to just give them 40 dollars of my own money every year for the fun of it.

10-19-2009, 05:53 PM	#26
Arles Grey Dog Software Join Date: Nov 2000 Location: Phoenix, AZ by way of Belleville, IL	I ran into this with BBCF when an import issue was causing errors with updating saves. There was also a smaller, "unknown" issue that no one would have noticed but could have impacted the import's stability. So, on one of my old updates everyone had to be atleast a certain patch level. It can be frustrating, but there are times where in order to guarantee league stability - you need to have everyone on the same version. Knowing Marcus, I would say just to give him a sync all the versions and it shouldn't be an issue going forward. __________________ Developer of Bowl Bound College Football http://www.greydogsoftware.com

10-19-2009, 07:00 PM	#27
lighthousekeeper College Starter Join Date: Oct 2000	i think ootpx is in general a very solid release. __________________ ...

10-19-2009, 07:30 PM	#28
stevew Hall Of Famer Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: the yo'	Yeah. For the most part I agree. I wish they would have made us more aware that the patch was an all or nothing thing. I'm fairly sure they track online leagues. A little note asking every league to upgrade on or by a certain date "for the greater good"

10-20-2009, 03:13 AM	#29
Markus Heinsohn OOTP Developments Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: Germany	There were many online league related bugs fixed which results in team exports/imports being incompatible between versions. It has been that way in the past a few times already, so nothing really new here. Online leagues should make sure that all people run the same version anyway. People who play in several online leagues can simply keep two different .exe files of OOTP, the new one and one old version for league who have not yet converted. Regarding the Mac/Linux version, there was one licensing issue out of our control which needs to be fixed first. An updated patch for all platforms will be released in a couple of days. So, all is good, no need to be upset Markus

10-20-2009, 06:41 AM	#32
stevew Hall Of Famer Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: the yo'	This was the first version he bought in several years.

10-20-2009, 07:24 AM	#34
stevew Hall Of Famer Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: the yo'	He is in my league. I would assume he acquired a legal copy even if he did pay for it with Loonies

10-20-2009, 12:27 PM	#37
Subby lolzcat Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: sans pants	See? I told you people that Markus loves his customers. __________________ Superman was flying around and saw Wonder Woman getting a tan in the nude on her balcony. Superman said I going to hit that real fast. So he flys down toward Wonder Woman to hit it and their is a loud scream. The Invincible Man scream what just hit me in the ass!!!!! I do shit, I take pictures, I write about it: chrisshue.com

10-20-2009, 12:29 PM	#38
Mizzou B-ball fan General Manager Join Date: Aug 2001 Location: Kansas City, MO	I'll tip my cap to Marcus for entering this maelstrom. Not many would be so brave.

10-20-2009, 01:03 PM	#39
DanGarion Coordinator Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: The Great Northwest	Well when a league generates $900 of revenue for you, I'm sure it's best to love the people that give it to you. Especially when the league has been around for multiple versions of the game... I do appreciate it though. __________________ Los Angeles Dodgers Check out the FOFC Groups on Facebook! and Reddit! DON'T REPORT ME BRO! Last edited by DanGarion : 10-20-2009 at 01:05 PM.

10-21-2009, 05:13 PM	#42
Sgran High School Varsity Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Budapest	Did i ever tell you about the time my center fielder dropped a routing fly ball to lose game 7 of the world series? The ball was hit by the opposing team's relief pitcher in his first official at bat. Does this latest patch fix this bug? __________________ What the hell is Mike Brown diagramming for them during timeouts? Is he like the guy from "Memento" or something? Guys, I just thought of something … what if we ran a high screen for LeBron?

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