Black Friday ....Wal-Mart Employee Trampled to Death by Customers

[Glengoyne]

This might indicate our society has hit a new all time low.

Story Here

Wal-Mart employee in suburban New York died after being trampled by a crush of shoppers who tore down the front doors and thronged into the store early Friday morning, turning the annual rite of post-Thanksgiving bargain hunting into a frenzy. The 34-year-old employee, who was not identified, was knocked down by a crowd that broke down the doors of the Wal-Mart at the Green Acres Mall in Valley Stream, N.Y., and surged into the store. He was pronounced dead at a nearby hospital at 6 a.m.

[Honolulu_Blue]

Wow.

We are an empire in decline.

[Lathum]

such a sad commentary on our society

[GrantDawg]

I just can't tell you how sick that makes me. The employee and a baby lose their life. It is sad what happens when humans get in large groups with high emotions. Just about anything can happen, and usually it is not good.

[GrantDawg]

Originally Posted by Lathum

such a sad commentary on our society

Not to defend it, but it really isn't. It is a psychological factor of what happens in groups. Every society have the same kind of potential for such insanity, and it really doesn't matter what the catalyst is (such as a soccer match, or a political rally).

[JonInMiddleGA]

I started to post this earlier but waited, hoping I guess that I'd see a correction on the story.

Simply pathetic and I'm actually surprised it hasn't happened more often.

[Lathum]

Originally Posted by GrantDawg

Not to defend it, but it really isn't. It is a psychological factor of what happens in groups. Every society have the same kind of potential for such insanity, and it really doesn't matter what the catalyst is (such as a soccer match, or a political rally).

you can't be serious.

IMO it is a sad commentary when a bunch of white trash tramples and kills a poor guy working for minimum wage so they can be the first to get the new Larry the cable guy CD for 4 bucks off.

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

Originally Posted by Lathum

such a sad commentary on our society

This has little to do with society. Wal-Mart has been well known for being one of the few major retailers dumb enough to not have a crowd control system in place. This was bound to happen and I'm honestly surprised that it hasn't happened sooner.

Places like Best Buy along with many other retailers have a line queue along with handing out tickets for the major items to avoid this kind of a situation. In addition, they cut off the line of consumers at certain intervals to make sure there isn't an overwhelming surge of people into the store without some people leaving the store first. It's common sense, but evidently Wal-Mart hadn't caught on to that. I'll bet my life savings that they'll have a system in place at every single Wal-Mart next year after this incident.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by Mizzou B-ball fan

This has little to do with society.

Horseshit.

Some guy died today because a bunch of idiots wanted to save 10% on a bunch of crap they didn't need.

Hopefully this incident will combine with the anticipated lack of success to be the beginning of the end of the whole Black Friday absurdity.

[GrantDawg]

Originally Posted by Lathum

you can't be serious.

IMO it is a sad commentary when a bunch of white trash tramples and kills a poor guy working for minimum wage so they can be the first to get the new Larry the cable guy CD for 4 bucks off.

I am serious, and don't call me Shirley.

It is a sad commentary of the human condition that we lose a part of our conscience when in group-think (actually I don't think that is the right term, but something to that affect), but if you don't think the exact same thing happens across cultures/time, you are kidding yourself.

[Lathum]

Wal Mart deserves fault for certain, but a group of adults, many with children, should know better then to act like that. And the fact they didn't is a sad commentary on our society.

Comparing them to bunch of drunk soccer hooligans is a stretch, IMO

[GrantDawg]

Originally Posted by Lathum

Wal Mart deserves fault for certain, but a group of adults, many with children, should know better then to act like that. And the fact they didn't is a sad commentary on our society.

Comparing them to bunch of drunk soccer hooligans is a stretch, IMO

No. it is not. Study a little Psychology and get back to me.

[Lathum]

Originally Posted by GrantDawg

but if you don't think the exact same thing happens across cultures/time, you are kidding yourself.

I know it happens in other cultures. I also remember a time when we treated each other with respect in this country and those days are gone.

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

Originally Posted by JonInMiddleGA

Horseshit.

Some guy died today because a bunch of idiots wanted to save 10% on a bunch of crap they didn't need.

Hopefully this incident will combine with the anticipated lack of success to be the beginning of the end of the whole Black Friday absurdity.

Obviously, you chose the portion of my quote that fit your point. Wal-Mart has to shoulder most of the blame in this situation. They failed to provide a safe shopping situation and it ended up costing a man his life.

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

Originally Posted by Lathum

I know it happens in other cultures. I also remember a time when we treated each other with respect in this country and those days are gone.

While this kind of sensationalism wins elections, it holds little basis in fact. It's easy to point out the exception rather than the rule. This country still has a wealth of people that go out of their way to help each other. Don't let a few bad apples paint the whole picture. There's still plenty of good, but bad news sells.

[GrantDawg]

Originally Posted by Mizzou B-ball fan

Obviously, you chose the portion of my quote that fit your point. Wal-Mart has to shoulder most of the blame in this situation. They failed to provide a safe shopping situation and it ended up costing a man his life.

And an unborn child. Wal-mart definitely bears the brunt. I doubt much will change, though. Probably more security measures across the board for the next few years, and then they will weaken until it happens again in a few more years. Money is much more important than a few lives here in there in corporate America.

[Buccaneer]

Originally Posted by GrantDawg

And an unborn child. Wal-mart definitely bears the brunt. I doubt much will change, though. Probably more security measures across the board for the next few years, and then they will weaken until it happens again in a few more years. Money is much more important than a few lives here in there in corporate America.

Especially when all they do is to feed the demand for the wasteful, needless crap that consumers think they HAVE to have. This ranges from Larry the Cable Guy DVDs to 50" TVs to consoles or whatever crap you feel you need. So there.

[Radii]

Originally Posted by Mizzou B-ball fan

While this kind of sensationalism wins elections, it holds little basis in fact. It's easy to point out the exception rather than the rule. This country still has a wealth of people that go out of their way to help each other. Don't let a few bad apples paint the whole picture. There's still plenty of good, but bad news sells.

Linking this to what GrantDawg has been posting, I bet many of the people in the crowd in this story are good people that would go out of their way to help each other as well. But, market crazy limited time, limited supply sales and encourage this kind of behavior(b/c all these retailers are counting on this kind of hype around Black Friday and do what they can to help generate it), don't have the proper security measures in place to keep the initial frenzy under control, and otherwise good people in a crowd revert to some sort of herd structure and go crazy.

[Mustang]

Originally Posted by Mizzou B-ball fan

While this kind of sensationalism wins elections, it holds little basis in fact. It's easy to point out the exception rather than the rule. This country still has a wealth of people that go out of their way to help each other. Don't let a few bad apples paint the whole picture. There's still plenty of good, but bad news sells.

At our Walmart, each pallet had a line of people that were interested in whatever deal was going on then at 5:00 AM, they started handing them out and everyone just filed past and got their particular item they were interested in.

One person tried to cut in line around 4:45 and people in that section of the line just said ahh.. no, sorry, the back of the line is there. Of course, that person got pissed and told us all to grow up. (Which was rather odd because the people in line were the owns acting grown up...)

I don't think Wal-mart goes to a ticket system because I think they love the mass hysteria (for whatever reason)

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by Mizzou B-ball fan

Wal-Mart has to shoulder most of the blame in this situation.

Also utter & complete horseshit.

The responsibility lies squarely on the shoulders of the morons who participated in the stampede. Hopefully a combination of security cameras & subsequent credit card receipts (because you know they didn't stop shopping) will lead to multiple criminal prosecutions & some lengthy sentences.

[Radii]

Originally Posted by JonInMiddleGA

Also utter & complete horseshit.

The responsibility lies squarely on the shoulders of the morons who participated in the stampede. Hopefully a combination of security cameras & subsequent credit card receipts (because you know they didn't stop shopping) will lead to multiple criminal prosecutions & some lengthy sentences.

The people involved certainly aren't free of any responsibility, but Wal-Mart is absolutely encouraging this kind of behavior and by not being prepared to safely handle it they deserve a solid share of the blame.

[ISiddiqui]

Yes, it is ultimately Wal-Mart's fault. They could have done much more to prevent this sort of thing from happening. But yes, in mass groups that are riled this sort of thing tends to happen, unfortunately. There always seems to be a trampling once a year at a soccer match or at Mecca during the Haj. Retailers should be trying to prevent that crap though.

[digamma]

Originally Posted by GrantDawg

No. it is not. Study a little Psychology and get back to me.

What GD said.

Maybe the reason for the crowd gathering is a comment on society, but crowd behavior, whether it be mob or herd mentality, and the effects of it are certainly not unique to the US or this day and age.

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

Originally Posted by Radii

Linking this to what GrantDawg has been posting, I bet many of the people in the crowd in this story are good people that would go out of their way to help each other as well. But, market crazy limited time, limited supply sales and encourage this kind of behavior(b/c all these retailers are counting on this kind of hype around Black Friday and do what they can to help generate it), don't have the proper security measures in place to keep the initial frenzy under control, and otherwise good people in a crowd revert to some sort of herd structure and go crazy.

I'm sure that most people have been in a somewhat scary stampede situation like this before. I know I have. If the crowd control is properly done, this never would happen. As it is, you have a lot of tightly packed people squeezing forward and they have little option but to move forward. Anyone who would try to stop in the middle of that group would likely get trampled much like the guy who died. At that point, it becomes less about the sale and suddenly about survival.

[FrogMan]

Originally Posted by GrantDawg

And an unborn child.

you have another article to confirm that?

All I see in that article is:

The police said that three other shoppers were injured and a 28-year-old pregnant woman was taken to the hospital for observation.

"for observation" does not necessarily mean the baby died, does it?

FM

[Schmidty]

Can't people stop over-thinking and just say it's fucking sad? Who cares about psychology and societal implications - the people that stepped on or over him knowingly were assholes. It's simple.

Poor guy.

[Samdari]

According the the story linked on the front page of CNN.com:

"A 34-year-old Wal-Mart employee suffered an apparent heart attack and was rushed to a nearby hospital, where he was pronounced dead."

Worker dies in Black Friday store rush - 11/28/08 - New York News and Tri-State News - 7online.com

That is quite different than trampled to death by a mob.

[GrantDawg]

Originally Posted by FrogMan

you have another article to confirm that?

All I see in that article is:


"for observation" does not necessarily mean the baby died, does it?

FM

Let me see if I can find it, but an earlier article said she actually lost the baby at the seen.


Ok, they changed the article. They are now saying the baby is ok.

[Raiders Army]

So sad because there isn't anything on sale at Wal-Mart that is worth a person's life. Wal-Mart created the conditions that allowed the people to trample someone to death. While I normally advocate personal responsibility, this is definitely something that Wal-Mart could've prevented.

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

Originally Posted by Samdari

According the the story linked on the front page of CNN.com:

"A 34-year-old Wal-Mart employee suffered an apparent heart attack and was rushed to a nearby hospital, where he was pronounced dead."

That is quite different than trampled to death by a mob.

How he died is irrelevant. When you have 4 other people with injuries in the same spot and the guy who died was knocked to the ground, it becomes obvious that it was much more than just a guy slumping over from a heart attack. If there weren't any other injuries, I'd be much more inclined to agree with you.

[GrantDawg]

Originally Posted by Schmidty

Can't people stop over-thinking and just say it's fucking sad? Who cares about psychology and societal implications - the people that stepped on or over him knowingly were assholes. It's simple.

Poor guy.

Yeah, let's all stop thinking.

Actually, read about early happenings like this. When people stopped and tried to help the victims, they were killed/injured as well. That is why charges are very doubtful, and it is not exactly a sign of evil if you did step over/on the person in question. The people most at fault generally are the people that may be 30-50 feet away and have no idea anyone is down and being stepped on. They are just pushing the crowd in front of them trying to get in.

So, yes, it is Walmart's fault (if there was trampling done. If it was a heart attack, then I guess not). Crowd security would prevent this frenzy, but instead they foster it.

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

Originally Posted by Mustang

At our Walmart, each pallet had a line of people that were interested in whatever deal was going on then at 5:00 AM, they started handing them out and everyone just filed past and got their particular item they were interested in.

One person tried to cut in line around 4:45 and people in that section of the line just said ahh.. no, sorry, the back of the line is there. Of course, that person got pissed and told us all to grow up. (Which was rather odd because the people in line were the owns acting grown up...)

I don't think Wal-mart goes to a ticket system because I think they love the mass hysteria (for whatever reason)

I'm going to assume that you are talking about a 24/7 Wal-Mart location. Those situations are much better organized because you have people inside the store in line rather than a sudden rush. I have a similar 24/7 location near my home and I'd agree that it's well handled.

The location where this incident occured was not a 24/7 Wal-Mart, so they had the rush of people that they should have dealt with.

[Samdari]

Originally Posted by Mizzou B-ball fan

How he died is irrelevant. When you have 4 other people with injuries in the same spot and the guy who died was knocked to the ground, it becomes obvious that it was much more than just a guy slumping over from a heart attack. If there weren't any other injuries, I'd be much more inclined to agree with you.

The cause of death not being attributable to a mob is irrelevant to a story saying that he was killed by that mob?

Sure, the mob may have induced stress, and been a trigger but heart attack is NEVER from stress alone, there is always an underlying medical cause. This guy died because something was wrong with his heart, not because he was trampled. I think that's quite different. They might have sped it up, but they did not cause it.

[Raiders Army]

It's not like Wal-Mart didn't know this could happen...

[Logan]

Originally Posted by Mizzou B-ball fan

This country still has a wealth of people that go out of their way to help each other. Don't let a few bad apples paint the whole picture. There's still plenty of good, but bad news sells.

About an hour ago, I was on the subway and a woman started having a panic attack -- I was very proud of how many people jumped up to help her and showed genuine concern.

That's all.

[Anthony]

Originally Posted by Buccaneer

Especially when all they do is to feed the demand for the wasteful, needless crap that consumers think they HAVE to have. This ranges from Larry the Cable Guy DVDs to 50" TVs to consoles or whatever crap you feel you need. So there.

just cuz you want to live the life of a pauper don't put down people who want to spend their hard earned money on products. what's the point of living if you're just going to go to work and wait to die? you can't take your money with you. aside from bread to eat, a place to sleep at nite to protect you from the elements and a burlap sack to cover your body in we don't need much. anything outside of that is excess. some people waste money on useless products, others waste time posting curmudgeonly stick in the mud thoughts on a tiny text sim website. it's all wasteful.

but as Sheryll Crow once sang, if it makes you happy - it can't be that bad.

[Anthony]

i alway say "money is only paper until you use it". am i gonna light my cigars with $10 bills just to prove that point? no. but i'm also not going to hesitate to reach into my wallet to buy something that's going to bring a smile to my loved ones. if that makes me wasteful then so be it. me buying a useless "gotta have" product makes my loved ones happy and puts money in a store's cash register which allows it to be able to afford to employ some schmoe who can put food on his family's table.

[Anthony]

i live on Long Island (fortunately far enough away from green acres mall). let's just say that particular area of Long Island, or more accurately the demographic of the people who predominantly go to that specific mall is such that they should call it brown acres mall, if you can read between the lines. i make no judgement or offer any further comments, but i will add that when i heard this particular incident happened in green acres mall i chortled cuz it really isn't a surprise given the quality of people who shop there. i shop mostly at roosevelt field mall which generally has a more civilized client base. i would love to be able to afford to consistently shop at the miracle mile where they have the high end stores one finds in beverly hills. and no, you won't ever hear of this happening in roosevelt field mall nor at the miracle mile.

[MikeVic]

I don't know how to read into brown acres mall.

[Anthony]

Originally Posted by MikeVic

I don't know how to read into brown acres mall.

i'll PM you.

[ISiddiqui]

Originally Posted by Anthony

just cuz you want to live the life of a pauper don't put down people who want to spend their hard earned money on products. what's the point of living if you're just going to go to work and wait to die? you can't take your money with you. aside from bread to eat, a place to sleep at nite to protect you from the elements and a burlap sack to cover your body in we don't need much. anything outside of that is excess. some people waste money on useless products, others waste time posting curmudgeonly stick in the mud thoughts on a tiny text sim website. it's all wasteful.

but as Sheryll Crow once sang, if it makes you happy - it can't be that bad.

QFT!

What's the point in holding on to your money when you are gone? Live a little, though, of course, anything done to excess is bad.

[BYU 14]

Quote:

Originally Posted by GrantDawg
Not to defend it, but it really isn't. It is a psychological factor of what happens in groups. Every society have the same kind of potential for such insanity, and it really doesn't matter what the catalyst is (such as a soccer match, or a political rally).

Originally Posted by Lathum

you can't be serious.

IMO it is a sad commentary when a bunch of white trash tramples and kills a poor guy working for minimum wage so they can be the first to get the new Larry the cable guy CD for 4 bucks off.

Grant actually has a valid point and the book "Among the Thugs", which is an inside look at Soccer hooliganism in the UK during the 1980's examines these theories in depth and offers some eye opening insight.

That said, I just can't fathom how fucking consumed a mob of people can get with saving a few dollars. Senseless and stupid and I hope Walmart takes another big financial hit for this one, so they finally get their shit together and provide some adequate control/security measures.

[terpkristin]

I give up.
More Black Friday Bloodshed: 2 Dead After Shooting at Toys R Us

/tk

[rowech]

As long as everybody remembers what's being celebrated...

It's not Walmart's fault. It is every store who has one of these sales and every person who participates in such a manner. It's pure insanity that this is what it's become about. There are times when I wish the second coming would just get here already.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Nassau police said about 2,000 people were gathered outside the store doors at the mall about 20 miles east of Manhattan. The impatient crowd knocked the man to the ground as he opened the doors, leaving a metal portion of the frame crumpled like an accordion.

"This crowd was out of control," said Nassau police spokesman Lt. Michael Fleming. He described the scene as "utter chaos."

Dozens of store employees trying to fight their way out to help the man were also getting trampled by the crowd, Fleming said. Witnesses said that even as the worker lay on the ground, shoppers streamed into the store, stepping over him.

Kimberly Cribbs, who witnessed the stampede, said shoppers were acting like "savages."

"When they were saying they had to leave, that an employee got killed, people were yelling 'I've been on line since yesterday morning,'" she said. "They kept shopping."

They bent the metal frame around the f'n door. For those crying about "adequate crowd control", what did you want them to do, have the National Guard on stand-by?



http://www.nydailynews.com/money/gal..._pictures.html

[lungs]

I saw the same type of thing with my cattle the other day.

Sometimes I seriously believe humans are no better than cattle. Black Friday turns people into cattle.

[Buccaneer]

Originally Posted by ISiddiqui

QFT!

What's the point in holding on to your money when you are gone? Live a little, though, of course, anything done to excess is bad.

And that's the point. Why get a 50" TV when a 42" will do? Why constantly be in debt paying for new cars when one can have older cars that are paid for? In other words, why strive to have the latest and greatest? There is nothing wrong with having electronics, gadgets, cars, etc., I have plenty of them. It's the excess that people go through to go deeper in debt just so they can have more stuff. Want to make even more people happy? Give your some of your excesses (money, goods, time) to charitable causes this holiday season.

[sterlingice]

Originally Posted by terpkristin

I give up.
More Black Friday Bloodshed: 2 Dead After Shooting at Toys R Us

/tk

I read about that one and CNN and it kindof sounds like a domestic disturbance that happened to be on Black Friday in front of a Toys R Us.

SI

[SFL Cat]

This really angers me. Such a senseless, stupid way to die.

[Lathum]

Originally Posted by JonInMiddleGA

Nassau police said about 2,000 people were gathered outside the store doors at the mall about 20 miles east of Manhattan. The impatient crowd knocked the man to the ground as he opened the doors, leaving a metal portion of the frame crumpled like an accordion.

"This crowd was out of control," said Nassau police spokesman Lt. Michael Fleming. He described the scene as "utter chaos."

Dozens of store employees trying to fight their way out to help the man were also getting trampled by the crowd, Fleming said. Witnesses said that even as the worker lay on the ground, shoppers streamed into the store, stepping over him.

Kimberly Cribbs, who witnessed the stampede, said shoppers were acting like "savages."

"When they were saying they had to leave, that an employee got killed, people were yelling 'I've been on line since yesterday morning,'" she said. "They kept shopping."

They bent the metal frame around the f'n door. For those crying about "adequate crowd control", what did you want them to do, have the National Guard on stand-by?



The Wal-mart stampede, caught on camera

exactly JIMG. These people are 95% to blame.