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08-18-2007, 12:25 AM
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#1 | ||
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College Starter
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: Huntington, WV
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RPG fans: WoTC officially announces D&D 4th Edition
Aaaand it's gonna be primarily an online thing.
The Wizards of the Coast Gen-Con presentation: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G_e5wAUwdmM -- Part 1 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=slLNNbcgiSs -- Part 2 A "sneak peak" of the "4th Edition Table" Online http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m20AJ...elated&search=
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08-18-2007, 12:49 AM
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#3 |
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College Starter
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: Huntington, WV
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Well, there's gonna be books for sale, but to get the full experience, you have to get a "D&D Insider" account, which'll be a monthly fee, and that'll unlock the new online Dungeon Magazine and Dragon Magazine, along with the Table/Character Creation sets.
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08-18-2007, 12:59 AM
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#4 |
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College Prospect
Join Date: May 2005
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No 4th edition for me. 3rd Edition got me back into D&D for awhile, then the 3.5 edition was announced way to soon for my wallet. So, I stopped buying anything related to D&D.
I now return you to your regularly scheduled new game announcement thread. |
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08-18-2007, 01:02 AM
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#5 |
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Head Coach
Join Date: Sep 2004
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Wake me up when it gets better than AD&D 2nd ed.
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2006 Golden Scribe Nominee 2006 Golden Scribe Winner Best Non-Sport Dynasty: May Our Reign Be Green and Golden (CK Dynasty) Rookie Writer of the Year Dynasty of the Year: May Our Reign Be Green and Golden (CK Dynasty) |
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08-18-2007, 03:21 AM
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#6 | |
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Pro Starter
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: PDX
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Quote:
Barf. Speaking as someone who literally just got back from playing D&D a few hours ago, the thought of virtual dice offends my nerd sensibilities. I suppose you don't have much choice if you're trying to game online, and not everybody has the luxury of having a local gaming group, leaving virtual gaming as your one and only option, but still, that virtual crap looks virtually fucking lame, pardon my french. Any modern D&D geek who has wrestled with the release of the clunky 3.0 texts has to be scared to death of this release...I'd bet that there's a quarter of the 3.5 ruleset that my friends and I haven't touched in the years that we've been casually playing, simply because we don't want to bother applying any more crapass rules. To play casually you have to pretty much pick and choose your rules anyways, as strict adherence to load, magical components, and some of the other more anal rules, can bring your campaign to a crawl. I've spent years figuring out just how to make 3.5 work for me, and the thought of throwing myself on some new, and essentially foreign, ruleset that will literally take years to learn and grow comfortable with, is about as enticing as an invitation to learn corporate tax law. Even more enticing is the reality that any 4.0 release from WotC comes with the specter of 4.5 dancing merrily in the background. Whoopee. The bottom line is that I'd love for WotC to release some new killer ruleset that could expand and enhanced the current generation of D&D while streamlining some of the stuff that can really gum up a campaign, but you can color me one skeptical and bitter old nerd. Last edited by thesloppy : 08-18-2007 at 03:25 AM. |
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08-18-2007, 07:56 AM
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#7 | |
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Grizzled Veteran
Join Date: Oct 2000
Location: Wisconsin
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Quote:
Ohhhh.. is there going to be uncommon and rare rules that you can collect and trade with friends? Roll d6 damage for your hit with the Gladius. Ohh.. I don't think so, I'm using my 'Sword of Maximus' rule so, I get to do d20!! If I'm playing D&D, just give me AD&D 1.0. (I'm starting to sound like a grumpy old geek. In my day, we didn't have no fancy electronic dice rolling machine. We had to pick up that d4, get pricked by the point and WE LIKED IT!)
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You, you will regret what you have done this day. I will make you regret ever being born. Your going to wish you never left your mothers womb, where it was warm and safe... and wet. i am going to show you pain you never knew existed, you are going to see a whole new spectrum of pain, like a Rainboooow. But! This rainbow is not just like any other rainbow, its... Last edited by Mustang : 08-18-2007 at 07:58 AM. |
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08-18-2007, 08:55 AM
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#8 |
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High School Varsity
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: Foxboro,MA
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<*insert charlie brown teacher voice squak noise*> monthly fee <*insert more squak*>.
No thanks.. Don't mind digital, as I own Screen Monkey and Fantasy Grounds along with an insane amount of purchases from rpgnow and DTRPG. I made the switch to True20 and M&M a while back due to the insane amount of supplements for the 3/3.5 system which basically amounted to a monthly fee (Won't even go into my problems with the system itself.). This just sounds the death knell for "AD&D" for me. Luckily there are plenty of other systems around now that I don't have to take out a loan to keep up with all the rules. Last edited by Eilim : 08-18-2007 at 08:55 AM. |
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08-18-2007, 09:03 AM
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#9 |
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Hall Of Famer
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: Back in Houston!
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Face it, there has never been a "good" version of D&D- it's never been very balanced or unburdened by extra rules. 1E had hideously unbalanced rules and tedium but it was a good first effort. 2E was a bit more streamlined but without much of an eye towards game balancing with things as simple as "why play human when every other race had advantages better than disadvantages and humans were useless". 3E tried to balance things but opened up a ton of new holes in the process and bogged the game down with tons of minutae.
SI
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Houston Hippopotami, III.3: 20th Anniversary Thread - All former HT players are encouraged to check it out! Janos: "Only America could produce an imbecile of your caliber!" Freakazoid: "That's because we make lots of things better than other people!" |
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08-18-2007, 09:05 AM
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#10 |
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Hall Of Famer
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: Back in Houston!
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{crotchety old RPG'er}Also, moving it online- um, that's what we call a "video game". It's not D&D{/crotchety old RPG'er}
SI
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Houston Hippopotami, III.3: 20th Anniversary Thread - All former HT players are encouraged to check it out! Janos: "Only America could produce an imbecile of your caliber!" Freakazoid: "That's because we make lots of things better than other people!" |
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08-18-2007, 09:55 AM
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#11 |
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High School JV
Join Date: Sep 2006
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omg can I rp a vampire infected w/lycanthropy and dual-wield halberds while wearing a black cape and riding a silver horse?
I'm partial to versions 2 and 3, myself. 3.5 seemed to cater to ubergamers who wanted to blend the distinction between classes. |
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08-18-2007, 09:58 AM
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#12 | |
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High School Varsity
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: Foxboro,MA
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Quote:
Ok, someone's been playing some of the Whitewolf games too much.. as long as you don't tell me your a LARPer, I won't run away in fear.  |
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08-18-2007, 10:24 AM
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#13 |
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FOFC's Elected Representative
Join Date: Oct 2000
Location: The stars at night; are big and bright
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All you need
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"i have seen chris simms play 4-5 times in the pros and he's very clearly got it. he won't make a pro bowl this year, but it'll come. if you don't like me saying that, so be it, but its true. we'll just have to wait until then" imettrentgreen "looking at only ten games, and oddly using a median only, leaves me unmoved generally" - Quiksand |
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08-18-2007, 10:34 AM
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#14 |
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FOFC's Elected Representative
Join Date: Oct 2000
Location: The stars at night; are big and bright
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dola:
Did they even attempt to practice the presentation before they gave it? I would have fired someone for that lack of professionalism. Horrible.
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"i have seen chris simms play 4-5 times in the pros and he's very clearly got it. he won't make a pro bowl this year, but it'll come. if you don't like me saying that, so be it, but its true. we'll just have to wait until then" imettrentgreen "looking at only ten games, and oddly using a median only, leaves me unmoved generally" - Quiksand |
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08-18-2007, 10:37 AM
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#15 |
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High School JV
Join Date: Sep 2006
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I have never played pnp, my introduction to d&d rules came via baldur's gate and later, neverwinter nights. Has anyone played with ALFA? It's a persistent world using the nwn game, with meticulous effort to imitate classic cities, cultures etc of the faerun realms.
I am a member but have played little because it seems difficult to integrate with the "vets" and their established cliques. |
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08-18-2007, 02:43 PM
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#16 | |
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Grizzled Veteran
Join Date: Oct 2000
Location: Wisconsin
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Quote:
They aren't rules, they are more like guidelines. Any rule dispute can be ultimately ended by the statement - "Fuck You, I'm the DM tonight asshat"
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You, you will regret what you have done this day. I will make you regret ever being born. Your going to wish you never left your mothers womb, where it was warm and safe... and wet. i am going to show you pain you never knew existed, you are going to see a whole new spectrum of pain, like a Rainboooow. But! This rainbow is not just like any other rainbow, its... |
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08-18-2007, 02:45 PM
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#17 | |
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Grizzled Veteran
Join Date: Oct 2000
Location: Wisconsin
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Quote:
And 
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You, you will regret what you have done this day. I will make you regret ever being born. Your going to wish you never left your mothers womb, where it was warm and safe... and wet. i am going to show you pain you never knew existed, you are going to see a whole new spectrum of pain, like a Rainboooow. But! This rainbow is not just like any other rainbow, its... |
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08-18-2007, 03:27 PM
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#18 | |
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FOFC's Elected Representative
Join Date: Oct 2000
Location: The stars at night; are big and bright
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Quote:
You speak truth.
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"i have seen chris simms play 4-5 times in the pros and he's very clearly got it. he won't make a pro bowl this year, but it'll come. if you don't like me saying that, so be it, but its true. we'll just have to wait until then" imettrentgreen "looking at only ten games, and oddly using a median only, leaves me unmoved generally" - Quiksand |
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08-18-2007, 03:33 PM
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#19 | |
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Hall Of Famer
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: Back in Houston!
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Quote:
True, true  SI
__________________
Houston Hippopotami, III.3: 20th Anniversary Thread - All former HT players are encouraged to check it out! Janos: "Only America could produce an imbecile of your caliber!" Freakazoid: "That's because we make lots of things better than other people!" |
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08-18-2007, 03:35 PM
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#20 | |
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Coordinator
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: The Great Northwest
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Sucks for us people that spent nearly $200 bucks putting money into Code Monkey though... Fricken E-tools! *shakes fist* |
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08-18-2007, 03:38 PM
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#21 | |
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Coordinator
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: The Great Northwest
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Totally agree with you there, we don't care about load, components and the stupid rules that make the game seem like work. |
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08-18-2007, 03:41 PM
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#22 | |
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The boy who cried Trout
Join Date: Oct 2000
Location: TX
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Annnnnddddd...you're eaten by a mad hermit. |
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08-18-2007, 03:41 PM
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#23 | |
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Coordinator
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: The Great Northwest
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Quote:
WW was pretty cool till they screwed up up with that Armageddon/Apocalypse crap. We haven't played it for two years since they got rid of all the dark ages stuff... |
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08-18-2007, 03:46 PM
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#24 |
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College Starter
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: Huntington, WV
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I do like the idea of fighters being radically different depending on the weapon they use. IE a fighter with swords has different abilites/feats than someone with a mace.
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08-18-2007, 03:49 PM
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#25 |
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College Starter
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: Kansas
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I miss Birthright.
And I'm probably the only one. Not too terribly interested in this one or the other as I think my playing days have long since passed. I haven't played 3.0 or 3.5 yet, and I doubt it'll happen. One P&P RPG I do regret not getting the chance to ever play is the Call of Cthulhu game, that one looks pretty damn fun. |
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08-18-2007, 03:51 PM
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#26 | |
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College Starter
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: Huntington, WV
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Quote:
My weekly group plays M&M as well. I'm surprised on how well the system works.
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08-18-2007, 05:27 PM
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#27 | |
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Grizzled Veteran
Join Date: Oct 2000
Location: Wisconsin
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Quote:
You guys play Mazes & Monsters??? "WATCH OUT, IT'S A GORVIL!!!!"
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You, you will regret what you have done this day. I will make you regret ever being born. Your going to wish you never left your mothers womb, where it was warm and safe... and wet. i am going to show you pain you never knew existed, you are going to see a whole new spectrum of pain, like a Rainboooow. But! This rainbow is not just like any other rainbow, its... |
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08-18-2007, 05:36 PM
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#28 |
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SI Games
Join Date: Oct 2000
Location: Melbourne, FL
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I never quite understood why they kept upgrading the system ...
Basic D&D was great as an introductory system and AD&D as the 'adult' system .... why keep revamping it and forcing people away from the system? ... For me as a kid/teenager part of the fun was building up a collection of adventures/campaigns and building my knowledge of how the game worked so I could immerse myself in it and not spend ages reading the rules because I'd played the game for years. Now if I start up again I'd have to relearn from scratch (and trust me if I could find fellow geeks in this area I'd be up for trying - but relearning things is a deterrant). |
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08-18-2007, 06:03 PM
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#29 |
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Pro Starter
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: Dayton, OH
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My only question about the Keep on the Borderlands is why were goblins living down the hall from the Bugbears?
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08-18-2007, 06:05 PM
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#30 | |
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FOFC's Elected Representative
Join Date: Oct 2000
Location: The stars at night; are big and bright
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Quote:
From my understanding from my DM, they were poker buddies.
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"i have seen chris simms play 4-5 times in the pros and he's very clearly got it. he won't make a pro bowl this year, but it'll come. if you don't like me saying that, so be it, but its true. we'll just have to wait until then" imettrentgreen "looking at only ten games, and oddly using a median only, leaves me unmoved generally" - Quiksand |
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08-18-2007, 07:06 PM
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#31 |
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Coordinator
Join Date: Jan 2001
Location: Keene, NH
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hmmm
so the the video was awful (who decided that the narrator should have a french accent?) and, while humorous, essentially just told me the game has been flawed for 25 years. the presentation was horrendous beyond just the two guys fumbling for their lines - it didn't really tell us anything, and certainly didn't show any evidence of fixing any of the existing problems with D&D they so graciously pointed out for us. and the tools? I don't know that I could have been any less impressed. are they using a game engine from 1996? man, I can't wait to crowd around someone's laptop watching that all night. maybe it will be better than it looks, but if that was their sale's pitch...pass.
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Mile High Hockey |
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08-18-2007, 07:10 PM
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#32 | |
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Coordinator
Join Date: Jan 2001
Location: Keene, NH
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Quote:
this isn't meant to sound flippant, but it's essentially for the same reason you guys keep putting out new games. revenue.
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Mile High Hockey |
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08-18-2007, 08:04 PM
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#33 | ||||
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High School Varsity
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: Foxboro,MA
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Quote:
Well, I just had to get in the stereotypical WW fan dig, its almost instinct at this point.  I actually picked up a few books in the new Mage and Werewolf lines and enjoyed them, just could never find anyone to play with.. and the fans I know of online are not people I'd choose to game with.Quote:
Nope, not the only one, I have fond memories of running sessions of Birthright. I also really enjoyed the novels for the line. Quote:
It's my absolutely favorite system EVAH! I own pretty much everything released for the 1st and 2nd edition both in print and pdf formats. Now that all my gaming friends have moved away I'm pondering trying to find an online game to get my fix. At the moment I'm working on creating datasets for Fantasy Grounds 2.Quote:
Marc, I highly suggest checking out some of the virtual gaming table software (I think theres roughly a bazillion of them nowadays.. both free and commercial.) along with some of the newer/newish rpg systems. Savage Worlds and True20 being two of my personal favorite "rules lite" systems that also have the plus of being rather generic and suited for multiple genres. Oh, and of course if the superhero/supernatural genre interests you at all.. You must check out Mutants and Masterminds as it is God's gift to role playing. I am not exaggerating at all... honest... really... |
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08-18-2007, 08:28 PM
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#34 | |
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SI Games
Join Date: Oct 2000
Location: Melbourne, FL
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Not taken as flippant at all .. I realise they need to continually improve revenue, however I don't think 'new versions' in that way maximises it. For instance we retain a similarity in UI and game play between versions partially because 'if it isn't broken don't fix it' - but also because changing things radically unsettles a lot of people. The same is true imho for D&D, retaining users by adding optional enhancement packs and modules would have been the approach I'd have taken personally. For an example of this as a kid I collected well over 40 modules (read adventures) forking out around £4.99 each for them (the rule books were £9.99 at the time). I stopped playing at university because they'd just brought out a new version and I couldn't really bring myself to fork out the money to upgrade everything (and to be frank I liked the earlier versions and didn't really see why it had to change at all) and they'd stopped writing adventures for me to buy (and neither me or my friends had time to create their own any more really). This is the reason I think retaining a more static rule base - perhaps with occassional revisions being made to balance the gameplay (sort of what we do in FM with tweaking the game engine) would have made more sense to me. If you look at a lot of Games Workshop games they tend to take more of this approach generally (at least on the games I played at a kid - eg. Warhammer, Blood Bowl etc. - this might have changed somewhat as again I'm afraid being an old git I haven't played these for a while ... we need an old git gamers club around here ).PS> Yes I realise this is a pointless comment to make, as it won't change the approach they're taking - but when someone takes osmething you enjoyed and changes it in a direction you don't appreciate you can't help it ... heck this is mellow, you should have heard me and my friends when I was younger debating the sequels to "Highlander" ... those sequels made the latter Matrix movies look like classics imho Last edited by Marc Vaughan : 08-18-2007 at 08:31 PM. |
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08-18-2007, 08:34 PM
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#35 | |
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SI Games
Join Date: Oct 2000
Location: Melbourne, FL
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Quote:
I'll try to do that at some point - sounds intruiging ... |
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08-18-2007, 09:06 PM
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#36 |
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Coordinator
Join Date: Jan 2001
Location: Keene, NH
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as I'm thinking a little more.
I do believe that 2E and 3E were both at least partially driven by a legitimate desire to make the rules better. Or at least condense them back down to a more manageable set from all the accessories, supplements and Dragon articles that had turned the core rules into what a programmer would call spaghetti code. But certainly the idea of a revenue burst from people buying a whole new set of core rulebooks had to be on their minds, especially considering how much the industry - and company - has struggled over the years. I have to guess they make a lot more money off the core books than they do with the modules. I agree that, in the end, introducing the 3rd edition has probably hurt them more than helped them. A lot of the original D&D players - like myself - were grown up and finding less and less time to play the game. 3E comes out and now they have to invest in a whole new set of rulebooks if they want to stay current, and I think a lot of the old-timers got off the train right there. Of course, they were kind of screwed either way - I don't think they would have been able to stay afloat just putting out more modules. 4E seems like kind of a desperate play to get the money train righted - sell more core books, and, hey, get them to pay a monthly fee as well for some neato behind the scenes commentary. The electronic element seems to be the significant change, and it is a nice idea...just 5-7 years late. They've tried to incorporate the PC before, and haven't really done a good job at it. This toolset doesn't look like it will change much - it looked incredibly cheesy, slow and cumbersome. Perhaps someone who has never seen the internet or played a computer RPG will think it's cool. To everyone else...meh.
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08-18-2007, 10:19 PM
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#37 | |
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High School JV
Join Date: Oct 2000
Location: Durham, NC, USA
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Quote:
Mutants and Masterminds is by far the best designed superhero game ever. I'm thinking about trying to figure out how to incorporate magic items into the set so I could run a fantasy game with it if I wanted to. |
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08-19-2007, 03:50 AM
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#38 | |
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High School Varsity
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: Foxboro,MA
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Quote:
I don't think it should be that tough just treating them as devices. Big thing I would think is D&D-type fantasy is based around constantly "getting more loot/stuff" and not sure how well M&M would handle that without you constantly recalculating and monitoring PLs. I never really poked too much into it as when I am in the Sword and Sorcery mood I just use True20 (or if not worried about going "rules lite" the Mongoose Publishing Conan ruleset or Green Ronin's take on the Black Company series..). Anyways, just head over to Atomic Thinktank and do a search for "Fantasy" and "Magic" and you'll get a great bunch of ideas and frameworks on how to use M&M for the genre. (And yes, if you haven't guessed.. I'm one of those "Ruleset collectors", I tend to grab a copy of any RPG ruleset that even remotely sparks my interest. Can't help it, I love rpg's, and combined with being a hobbiest rpg designer/programmer... I can't get enough of checking out new game mechanics.) now back to our regularly scheduled discussion of how asinine WOTC is, with regards to how it has been handling the D&D line. |
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08-19-2007, 11:25 AM
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#39 |
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Coordinator
Join Date: Jan 2001
Location: Keene, NH
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Mile High Hockey |
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08-19-2007, 01:51 PM
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#40 | |
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College Starter
Join Date: Dec 2000
Location: Sweden
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Quote:
Call of Cthulhu absolutely rocked. Best rpg experience I've ever had.
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San Diego Chargers (HFL) - Lappland Reindeers (WOOF) - Gothenburg Giants (IHOF) Indiana: A TCY VC - year 2044 - the longest running dynasty ever on FOFC! |
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05-22-2008, 05:59 AM
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#41 |
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College Starter
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: Huntington, WV
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Wizards released the first module for 4th edition on the 20th, called Keep on the Shadowfell. Keep in mind the actual Player's Handbook, Dungeon Masters Guide and Monster Manual for 4th edition isn't out until June.
The module contains a "Quickstart Guide" with pre-made characters and basic 4th Edition rules.
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05-22-2008, 07:30 AM
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#42 |
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Coordinator
Join Date: Apr 2001
Location: Early, TX
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I miss playing D&D. It's been like 16 years. I'm getting old.
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Just beat the devil out of it!!! - Bob Ross |
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05-22-2008, 11:33 AM
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#43 | |
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Coordinator
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: Buffalo, NY
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Me too dude. I wish we had enough people around Buffalo to get a good game going but it so damn time intensive. |
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05-22-2008, 11:50 AM
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#44 | |
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lolzcat
Join Date: Oct 2000
Location: sans pants
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Quote:
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Superman was flying around and saw Wonder Woman getting a tan in the nude on her balcony. Superman said I going to hit that real fast. So he flys down toward Wonder Woman to hit it and their is a loud scream. The Invincible Man scream what just hit me in the ass!!!!! I do shit, I take pictures, I write about it: chrisshue.com |
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05-22-2008, 11:53 AM
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#45 | |
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Hockey Boy
Join Date: Oct 2000
Location: Royal Oak, MI
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Steve Yzerman: 1,755 points in 1,514 regular season games. 185 points in 196 postseason games. A First-Team All-Star, Conn Smythe Trophy winner, Selke Trophy winner, Masterton Trophy winner, member of the Hockey Hall of Fame, Olympic gold medallist, and a three-time Stanley Cup Champion. Longest serving captain of one team in the history of the NHL (19 seasons). |
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05-22-2008, 11:55 AM
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#46 | |
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Coordinator
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: Buffalo, NY
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Doubtful, though with enough preperation a 3 member party might be able to tackle it in time. Friggin Subby. |
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05-22-2008, 11:57 AM
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#47 | |
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Head Coach
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: Colorado Springs
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Quote:
Heh. Except for the fact one of the party members had an uncanny ability to miss horribly at ANYTHING we went after, and shot me. Every. Damn. Time. |
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05-22-2008, 12:02 PM
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#48 | |
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Pro Starter
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: Winnipeg, MB
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Quote:
Lol!
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"Breakfast? Breakfast schmekfast, look at the score for God's sake. It's only the second period and I'm winning 12-2. Breakfasts come and go, Rene, but Hartford, the Whale, they only beat Vancouver maybe once or twice in a lifetime." |
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05-22-2008, 12:03 PM
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#49 |
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Pro Starter
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: Winnipeg, MB
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Dola
I'm playing D&D tomorrow night, probably our last run before the new books come out. I pre-ordered them from Amazon months ago and can't believe how fast the time has flown!
__________________
"Breakfast? Breakfast schmekfast, look at the score for God's sake. It's only the second period and I'm winning 12-2. Breakfasts come and go, Rene, but Hartford, the Whale, they only beat Vancouver maybe once or twice in a lifetime." |
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05-22-2008, 12:34 PM
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#50 |
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High School JV
Join Date: Dec 2005
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Take a look at D&D Insider from WoTC it's supposed to allow remote play through the 'net.
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