POLL: Greatest Pro Wrestler of All Time?

[DeToxRox]

Yes, we're going there. People will say "OMG THIS IS SO STUPID WRESTLING IS FAKE" and truthfully, fuck them.

With that disclaimer out of the way, who do you think the greatest wrestler ever is?

Now if we went with the best pure wrestlers, this list would look a lot different, but it needs to be based off of more then just how they work. I feel like it's a mixture of their workrate, how much money they drew, the ratings/buys they drew and a big one is how many stars did they make.

I am sure this will be hotly debated, but I am curious to see if this is more then a two person race.

[molson]

Originally Posted by DeToxRox

I feel like it's a mixture of their workrate, how much money they drew, the ratings/buys they drew and a big one is how many stars did they make.

Each of those categories, individually, probably has it's own top guy, but all combined, it has to be Flair.

I'd put Hogan #2. He gets some points deducted for workrate, I guess (though his wrestling style in the U.S. was 100% a commercial choice - he could have been a west coast version of Stan Hansen if he stayed in Japan in whole career, he definitely had skills).

[DeToxRox]

Originally Posted by molson

Each of those categories, individually, probably has it's own top guy, but all combined, it has to be Flair.

Yep. I figured Flair might win big, but I suspect a lot of Hogan love too.

[lordscarlet]

My window of wrestling watching was a couple years as a child and a couple years in college. I will probably be in the minority, but I am going to go with The Rock.

[lordscarlet]

Dola: I expect Flair and Hogan to end up on the top. I enjoyed Hogan, always hated Flair. and I expect the lognevity is a big factor in my choice being lame.

[molson]

The only thing that makes me question Flair is the drawing part. He certainly wasn't in Hogan's or the Rock's league there. The NWA was regional even in Flair's prime, and they just didn't do close to the kind of business that Hogan/WWF did.

[Fidatelo]

I went with The Rock as well. He was just the most fun guy to watch by a large margin.

[cartman]

Andre the Giant FTW

Hulk Hogan was Andre's bitch in Japan.

[Fidatelo]

If lordscarlet voted Rock, and I voted Rock, why does Rock only have 1 vote?

[DeToxRox]

Originally Posted by molson

The only thing that makes me question Flair is the drawing part. He certainly wasn't in Hogan's or the Rock's league there. The NWA was regional even in Flair's prime, and they just didn't do close to the kind of business that Hogan/WWF did.

I think though that without Flair, the NWA would've struggled to get by at all. Think of all the guys he made (which is why I think this is so big) that helped NWA turn into WCW.

It kind of went hand in hand in my opinion.

[Greyroofoo]

Mick Foley!

[Travis]

How is Bret Hart not on the list?

[DaddyTorgo]

voted Flair because I'm the biggest Nature Boy mark there is. I have like ~30 VHS tapes in my closet that are collections of flair matches/segments dating all the way back to the beginning.

His legendary match with Harley Race, all of the matches against Ricky Steamboat, the formation of the 4 Horsemen, all of his promos.

The line begins and ends with Flair. You'll even hear people like HHH and The Rock say that.

Shit...let's not forget the classic from Bret Hart's fued with Flair in WCW: "You know, you say to be the man you gotta beat the man. Well that's not true. Because Ric Flair, you're always going to be the man." -- brings tears to my eyes. And that was no work either - that was semi-shoot at worst.

[cartman]

Here's a link to another reason why I voted Andre:

Front Office Football Central - View Single Post - PING: amdaily

[DaddyTorgo]

fuck you cartman and your dola-breaking fatness!

and if someone can walk me through how one can burn VHS tapes onto HD's I'd be more than happy to burn all those tapes into modern-day video technology and share them with my FOFC-brethren free-of-charge.

[Bearcat729]

Originally Posted by Greyroofoo

Mick Foley!

This would be my vote as well.

[molson]

Originally Posted by Travis

How is Bret Hart not on the list?

I would say because his run on top of the WWF almost put the company out of business. (Not that it was his fault, but he didn't draw Hogan/Rock/Austin kind of numbers).

[DeToxRox]

Foley and Hart were great, but Foley was never at any point "the guy" in a company, and Bret Hart was very good but he was WWF Champion at a time when WWF was seriously thought to be going out of business.

Again both were great workers and I liked both, but compared to the other guys I just don't think they belong.

[SnDvls]

Voted Hogan based on the critera DeTox put out, however I like Flair better.

Workrate - advantage Flair although both men did the same key moves during every match. The "hulking up", shaking the finger, rippnig the t-shirt, post match pose down, the leg drop of doom. The beg off, the flip over the turnbuckle to the ring apron, the figure four leglock, the "back grab" after being throw from the top rope.

money drawn - Hogan big time advantage.

ratings/buys - Hogan again. WWF just knew how to do this and that played in his advantage.

Stars made - I'd say push, maybe a slight edge to Ric. Flair really only made Sting (you could agrue Lugar too) whom has lasted, but hasn't really drawn on his own ever. Hogan made lots of short term stars which he feuded with (Bundy, Mr. Wonderful, Heel Andre vs. loveable Andre ect.) and had successful programs with them.

just MHO

[molson]

Originally Posted by SnDvls

Voted Hogan based on the critera DeTox put out, however I like Flair better.

Workrate - advantage Flair although both men did the same key moves during every match. The "hulking up", shaking the finger, rippnig the t-shirt, post match pose down, the leg drop of doom. The beg off, the flip over the turnbuckle to the ring apron, the figure four leglock, the "back grab" after being throw from the top rope.

money drawn - Hogan big time advantage.

ratings/buys - Hogan again. WWF just knew how to do this and that played in his advantage.

Stars made - I'd say push, maybe a slight edge to Ric. Flair really only made Sting (you could agrue Lugar too) whom has lasted, but hasn't really drawn on his own ever. Hogan made lots of short term stars which he feuded with (Bundy, Mr. Wonderful, Heel Andre vs. loveable Andre ect.) and had successful programs with them.

just MHO

Good points.

I guess the big question is how you define workrate. Is it really fair to compare Hogan's in-ring work to that of a guy in a company where scientific wrestling was more valued? Hogan's workrate was sensational for the product the WWF was selling - he had a ton of charisma in the ring, could brawl, could get the crowd into it, could even make heels look dangerous. He could have broke out his wrestling repetoire he used in Japan, but that style just didn't fit the superhero character (In the AWA DVD, Hogan talks about how Verne Gagne told him to never leave his feet - it just isn't the same character if he's rolling around with a guy on the mat).

[MikeVic]

How is Bret Hart not there? He was a major reason why I started watching more. Although I think I'll vote Rock.

[molson]

What if we went older-school.

Ed "Strangler" Lewis.

[SnDvls]

Originally Posted by MikeVic

How is Bret Hart not there? He was a major reason why I started watching more. Although I think I'll vote Rock.

Bret Hart is probally my all time favorite wrestler, but in the big picture he would only beat Hogan and Flair in workrate. He couldn't draw, made no stars in his runs in both WWF/WCW and didn't elevate anyone he worked with to top level star and as has been said was apart of some of the worst buys in WWF history.

[digamma]

WOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!!!!!!

[Sublime 2]

Originally Posted by MikeVic

How is Bret Hart not there? He was a major reason why I started watching more. Although I think I'll vote Rock.

I have to agree with what others have said, the Hitman is easily the only reason I watched when I was a kid. That's my main problem in this, I don't see the "big picture" I only see what made me watch for a 5-6 year span, and it's no doubt Bret Hart.

[Sun Tzu]

The Hulkster.

There's really no comparison. That's like asking who the greatest Wide Receiver in NFL history is and put anybody other than Jerry Rice as an option. It's just pointless.

[Raiders Army]

Meh. My first instinct was to vote Hogan over Flair just for what he did for the "sport". Hogan crossed over to other media (ummmm....forget the No Holds Barred movie and just remember Rocky III) and really brought wrestling into the mainstream. Flair didn't do it.

For me, mike skills are probably equally as important as the in-ring wrestling skills. After that, a close third would be making other stars and finally draw.

Mike Skills: While both are excellent on the mike, I'd have to give it to Hogan. Flair had the Horsemen while Hogan did it pretty much all on his own.

In-Ring Wrestling Skills: Flair beats Hogan by the same amount in this category that Hogan beats Flair in Mike Skills. While Flair is a better wrestler, Hogan really told a decent (albeit hackneyed by the end of his first babyface run) story in the ring.

Making other stars: In this category I'm definitely a WWF mark. Hogan ran through so many wrestlers and "passed the torch" so many times that I'd give him this category.

Draw: Push. I think Vince McMahon gets the win here and while I'm not so sure Flair would've done as well in the WWF heyday I'm equally not so sure Hogan would've done well in the NWA...however, when Flair was in the WWF his first go-around, he didn't do nearly as well as Hogan did when he flopped over to the WCW. That being said, I think Flair was mis-used at the time in the WWF...but Hogan did well in both organizations while Flair really did well in one.

All in all, Hogan's fate was conjoined with McMahon's and just as much as I'd like to say Hogan did it all himself, he didn't. So I'll vote Hogan*.

[Raiders Army]

Originally Posted by Sublime 2

I have to agree with what others have said, the Hitman is easily the only reason I watched when I was a kid. That's my main problem in this, I don't see the "big picture" I only see what made me watch for a 5-6 year span, and it's no doubt Bret Hart.

Depends on when you watched. You could've watched for a 5-6 year span and known Bret the Hitman Hart for hitting the Hart Attack while the Anvil had their opponent lifted.

Bret Hart wrestled some great opponents and won more than he lost, but the Hulkster's list of feuds greatly outweighs it. Also, take two Wrestlemanias in Bret Hart's "peak" for example:

Wrestlemania IX: Hart loses to Yokozuna. Mr. Fuji challenges the Hulkster who beats Yokozuna in 21 seconds.

Wrestlemania X: Hart wins the WWF World Title from Yokozuna, but also loses to his brother Owen Hart earlier that same day.

Not exactly the stuff of the "greatest of all time".

[Raiders Army]

Oh, and another thing for you Flair fans: I always liked how they described him as 16 time World Champion.

You know what that means: he lost the belt at least 15 times.

Flair's longest title reign was 793 days. Hogan's longest was 1,474 days...almost twice as long.

[Chubby]

If Andre were alive this wouldn't be a contest.

Andre's winning streak would still be going today, it wasn't some manufactured crap like Goldberg's.

[molson]

Originally Posted by Chubby

Andre's winning streak would still be going today, it wasn't some manufactured crap like Goldberg's.

Andre's winning streak was a total work. (As was the myth that "he had never been bodyslammed"). He lost plenty before WM III.

Still, it's tough to compare him in a poll like this vs. guys who actually worked for promotions. Andre was pretty much a career roving special attraction until the very end.

[Sun Tzu]

Anybody want a peanut?

[Maple Leafs]

Originally Posted by Travis

How is Bret Hart not on the list?

I'm assuming the question was "Who is the greatest all-time pro wrestler, besides Bret Hart"?

Otherwise, why would you even need a poll?

[Fidatelo]

I'll go on record that I never liked Bret Hart.

[DaddyTorgo]

Originally Posted by Raiders Army

Meh. My first instinct was to vote Hogan over Flair just for what he did for the "sport". Hogan crossed over to other media (ummmm....forget the No Holds Barred movie and just remember Rocky III) and really brought wrestling into the mainstream. Flair didn't do it.

For me, mike skills are probably equally as important as the in-ring wrestling skills. After that, a close third would be making other stars and finally draw.

Mike Skills: While both are excellent on the mike, I'd have to give it to Hogan. Flair had the Horsemen while Hogan did it pretty much all on his own.

In-Ring Wrestling Skills: Flair beats Hogan by the same amount in this category that Hogan beats Flair in Mike Skills. While Flair is a better wrestler, Hogan really told a decent (albeit hackneyed by the end of his first babyface run) story in the ring.

Making other stars: In this category I'm definitely a WWF mark. Hogan ran through so many wrestlers and "passed the torch" so many times that I'd give him this category.

Draw: Push. I think Vince McMahon gets the win here and while I'm not so sure Flair would've done as well in the WWF heyday I'm equally not so sure Hogan would've done well in the NWA...however, when Flair was in the WWF his first go-around, he didn't do nearly as well as Hogan did when he flopped over to the WCW. That being said, I think Flair was mis-used at the time in the WWF...but Hogan did well in both organizations while Flair really did well in one.

All in all, Hogan's fate was conjoined with McMahon's and just as much as I'd like to say Hogan did it all himself, he didn't. So I'll vote Hogan*.

I don't get how Hogan beats Flair in mic skills...I really don't. But it's your opinion.

At least you admit your WWF-markness - my problem with Hogan is that he never really "passed the torch" and made a lasting star. He always squashed down the people whom he had elevated to face him to keep himself on top. Flair on the other hand elevated other wrestlers all over the country (Ricky Steamboat, Sting, etc.), and had zero problem putting other wrestlers over to make them.

[saldana]

i went with the rock...hogan was a lousy worker in the ring (even he admits it) and i dont ever remember taking a beat down...flair and the rock occasionally ended up on the down side of a work, but hogan was so much of an egomaniac that he never wanted to do the job. flair and rock both put guys over alot more often than hogan.

i would have liked to see kurt angle on the list, but given the choices, no one i have ever seen gets the pop that Rock did when he came out.

[digamma]

I'm guessing this poll is somewhat regionally driven and perhaps age wise as well. My suspicion is the Southeastern contingent (largely because of the NWA and TBS) is pretty solidly in the Flair camp (as I certainly am).

[Ragone]

Basically.. without Hogan/Flair/Race.. nobody would be watching wrestling on tv today.. so voting for anyone other then them is a injustice

[CU Tiger]

Anyone who votes anything other than Flair I ask that you at least read this:
A TRIBUTE TO THE "NATURE BOY" RIC FLAIR: WOOOOOO! |

And for who put who over...
Flair's list:
Ricky Steamboat (went on to be WWF's #1 draw for about 18months after flair made him)
Harley Race (the original king crown and robe)
Lex Luger
Sting
Dusty Rhodes (some credit due just for carrying his fat ass)
Randy Savage (before he was thee macho man he was flair's biggest threat)
Roddy Piper
Greg Valentine
Ted Dibiase (before he was ever the million dollar man)
Magnum TA
Hell he even made ricky morton of the rock and roll express seem like a threat for a summer.

In my opinon, anyone voting Hogan probably doesnt realize that half of WWFs talent was groomed by Flair.

And BTW Work rate...REALLY?!?!! Flair did 2 dozen headliners for every interview hogan gave.....

To me Hogan is definitely flashier, and more famous and maybe even a bigger star...but Flair was better and more important

[Scarecrow]

The Best There Was, The Best There Is, The Best There Ever Will Be!


Actually, in addition to Bret Hart missing, Kerry Von Erich and Jerry Lawler should be worth a mention.

EDIT: I can't believe I forgot about Dusty Rhodes.

[Noop]

We should have a draft like we did with the history one, although much smaller. I am torn between The Rock or Steve Austin, The Rock was money on the promo and sold a ton of merch same as Stone Cold come to think of it... Then again there is Ric Flair who I thought as a youth was an old wrestler but he was money as a bad guy. Hulk Hogan... please.

The Rock barely.

[DanGarion]

Dude where is Buff Bagwell????

[molson]

I don't think Bagwell deserves a mention here, but his hat certainly does.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Pro wrestler? Flair, and there isn't even a runner up.

Sports Entertainer, forerunner division? I'll give you Hogan on that one.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by DanGarion

Dude where is Buff Bagwell????

My first guess would be jail.
My second guess would be working for a second rate indy somewhere.

[JediKooter]

Jake The Snake and the DDT!!!

[DaddyTorgo]

Originally Posted by CU Tiger

Anyone who votes anything other than Flair I ask that you at least read this:
A TRIBUTE TO THE "NATURE BOY" RIC FLAIR: WOOOOOO! |

And for who put who over...
Flair's list:
Ricky Steamboat (went on to be WWF's #1 draw for about 18months after flair made him)
Harley Race (the original king crown and robe)
Lex Luger
Sting
Dusty Rhodes (some credit due just for carrying his fat ass)
Randy Savage (before he was thee macho man he was flair's biggest threat)
Roddy Piper
Greg Valentine
Ted Dibiase (before he was ever the million dollar man)
Magnum TA
Hell he even made ricky morton of the rock and roll express seem like a threat for a summer.

In my opinon, anyone voting Hogan probably doesnt realize that half of WWFs talent was groomed by Flair.

And BTW Work rate...REALLY?!?!! Flair did 2 dozen headliners for every interview hogan gave.....

To me Hogan is definitely flashier, and more famous and maybe even a bigger star...but Flair was better and more important

Flair also wrestled many more matches over his career - night after night headlining after much more travel than Hogan.

[Maple Leafs]

Originally Posted by SnDvls

Bret Hart ...made no stars in his runs in both WWF/WCW and didn't elevate anyone he worked with to top level star

I don't know, that bald guy from Texas that he spent the last year of his WWE run building up went on to do OK.

[DaddyTorgo]

Originally Posted by Maple Leafs

I don't know, that bald guy from Texas that he spent the last year of his WWE run building up went on to do OK.

this is very true

[graygoose12]

Ultimate Warrior!