Jim Gindin fixes Major League Baseball

[st.cronin]

Originally Posted by Solecismic

I've been thinking about this all afternoon for some reason, maybe because I don't have a real job, so I don't have anything better to do with my life. So here's my long and boring manifesto for fixing baseball:

1. Eliminate the DH. Games are too long, and there's enough offense. It adds an element of strategy. It makes the rules simpler - you're either in the lineup or you aren't.

2. No telelvision time-outs during pitching changes. The game has changed and there are more situational pitching changes. Why kill interest just when things are heating up? If a game drags out endlessly, this is usually the reason.

3. Players may not leave the batter's box during an at-bat. They may hold one foot out for ten seconds to receive the next signal. In turn, pitchers have 20 seconds to make their next pitch.

4. Lower the mid-inning (not end of inning) commercial break to one minute.

5. Increase the roster to 27 active players. The increased use of relief pitchers makes this a useful change. Increase the roster limit to 43.

6. There needs to be a hard salary cap. Screw the union. Shut down baseball for two years if necessary.

7. If you have a hard cap, you need real revenue sharing. Even the NFL is going to have some trouble soon if they don't start sharing luxury box and seat license revenue. Tell Steinbrenner he can go take ARod, Jeter, Sheffield, Godzilla, the Big Unit, Mussina and all his other All-Stars and schedule exhibition games with the Coors Silver Bullets. See how many people show up for a full slate of 81 exhibitions. Everything gets shared, especially local television contracts. Make it 55/45 if Steinbrenner produces real tears or beats up an elevator man.

8. Merge the leagues, from a schedule and statistical perspective. I don't give a damn that ARod led the AL with 52 home runs in 2001, because Barry Bonds hit 73. Inter-league play is at a weird level, like we're supposed to rejoice when Texas visits Florida, because it only happens once every three years, or six years, depending on the "unbalanced" schedule.

9. Four divisions, 7 or 8 teams per division. Keep the "league" designations only for familiarity and minor schedule differences. If you're in a 7-team division, you play teams within your division 11 or 12 times, teams in the 8-team division in your league 6 times and teams in the other league 3 times per season. If you're in an 8-team division, you play teams within your division 10 or 11 times, teams in the 7-team division 6 times and teams in the other league 3 times per season. Obviously, inter-league play goes on all season long. But it won't be a novelty and it won't be played with a different rule set.

10. Here are the divisions:

AL East - Yankees, Boston, Baltimore, Toronto, Detroit, Tampa Bay, Cleveland.
AL West - Seattle, Angels, Oakland, Minnesota, Milwaukee, Texas, Kansas City, White Sox.
NL East - Mets, Philadelphia, Pittsburgh, Florida, Washington, Atlanta, Cincinnati.
NL West - Cubs, St. Louis, Arizona, Dodgers, San Diego, San Francisco, Colorado, Houston.

These are divided by time zone. It would be fairer to have the east with the 8-team divisions because the travel distances are shorter, but there really isn't a logical candidate to move in either league. Expanding to 32 teams is a good idea, though the best sites are more western.

11. Eliminate the Wild Card round. It's a distraction. I want the regular season to mean more again. Baseball has traditionally balanced on the concept of 1 division or league winner per 7 or 8 teams. In its heydey, there were only two leagues of eight teams.

12. The team with the best overall record hosts the World Series (4 games of 7). It was a cute gimmick to have the All-Star game "mean something." But they did it by cheapening the World Series. You don't sacrifice your best milk cow for a nice Thanksgiving dinner. Okay, that analogy sucks, but you get my meaning.

13. Speaking of the All-Star game, lower rosters to 21. Eight position players, nine pitchers, an extra catcher and three extra players, one of whom will serve as the DH. Yes, the DH will exist only in the All-Star game. Of the nine pitchers, three will be only eligible to pitch if the game enters extra innings. If the All-Star game is tied after 15 innings, it ends right there. People will accept that rule if it's in place beforehand and it's reasonably long that it probably won't ever happen. Obviously, the rule that every team is represented needs to go away, though the host team should be represented and one of the extra position players should be required to go to a current legend of the game (someone like Tony Gwynn in his last season).

14. Allow instant replay. The technology is there, and in baseball close plays are going to be pretty clear to an experienced eye.

15. Automate balls and strikes calls. Quest-tec was a good idea but a bad implementation. Let's have something fast and let's get the umpires' egos out of the game as much as possible.

16. Back to television. Playoff games can not overlap. This means a return to afternoon games during the LCSes. All weekend playoff games take place during the afternoon.

17. Screen graphics should not make noise. Eliminate screen wipes entirely - they just waste time. Tell Fox to go fuck itself. No more closeups of fans throughout the game. No more extreme closeups between pitches unless something important happened. No more jump-cutting. No more replays of at-bats in past innings or past games unless it's of incredible historic value (like Reggie Jackson hitting three home runs, or Kirk Gibson gimping his way around the bases) unless you're going into commercial. Think of how annoying that would be during a football game.

I really believe all 17 points are necessary for baseball to make any sort of a comeback. If the owners are happy with steadily declining ratings simply because attendance hasn't yet dropped, they're certifiable. The population has increased quite a bit during the last 20 years, it would stand to reason that ticket sales would increase a little. But the television ratings are a serious problem. The World Series is essentially half of what it was pre-realignment. That just seems unprecedented in recent sports history. Notice I didn't mention the word "steroids" once. Until now.

#2 ... something needs to be done about the excessive pitching changes. I think eliminating the tv timeouts isn't enough. There needs to be some sort of rule change. Maybe no warm-ups for mid-inning pitching changes?

#5 ... I strongly disagree with this one. Increasing the roster size will just lead to more pitching changes. With a 27 man roster some teams would have an 11 man BULLPEN. The roster, if anything, should be scaled back to 23 or 24.

#17 ... couldn't agree more. Lots of other stuff here is a no-brainer.

[Cringer]

Now you will have people coming in here thinking Front Office Baseball has been announced.

[st.cronin]

Originally Posted by Cringer

Now you will have people coming in here thinking Front Office Baseball has been announced.

cool

[Cringer]

Anyways, what I already said before....

As for the cutting commercials, I at first thought "fat chance." But I think with the amount of in-game ads now (behind home plate) that it is not unreasonable to cut back on the normal commercials.

the division lineups would take some getting used to, but I agree that having only LCS' and then the WS is pretty attractive.

[bselig]

Of course I'd like to see some of these changes, but(according to about 10 seconds of searching) baseball cleared $4.5 billion in 05, compared to around $5 billion for the NFL, the obtensibly perfectly run sport, and they've experienced plenty of growth in the past decade. So it's not like MLB is on the verge of collapse and desperately needs revolutionary change.

[Cringer]

Originally Posted by bselig

Of course I'd like to see some of these changes, but(according to about 10 seconds of searching) baseball cleared $4.5 billion in 05, compared to around $5 billion for the NFL, the obtensibly perfectly run sport, and they've experienced plenty of growth in the past decade. So it's not like MLB is on the verge of collapse and desperately needs revolutionary change.

So says Bud Selig.

[Desmond]

It's almost like 93 when Baseball was moving along with record attendance and doing big time buisness. Boy, it's a good thing there were no radical changes back then.

[Galaxy]

I never could support a salary cap. Might something like a salary cap of the NHL, but from a business standpoint, the big-market teams have worked too hard to build up the value and revenues of its business. I think too much parity is too boring.

[Solecismic]

Originally Posted by bselig

Of course I'd like to see some of these changes, but(according to about 10 seconds of searching) baseball cleared $4.5 billion in 05, compared to around $5 billion for the NFL, the obtensibly perfectly run sport, and they've experienced plenty of growth in the past decade. So it's not like MLB is on the verge of collapse and desperately needs revolutionary change.

Here's the problem, as I said in the other item:

It's all about television ratings. That generates the multi-billion dollar national contracts. That determines a huge percentage of local revenue. It's not about attendance records.

In the 1970s, it wasn't uncommon to have ratings in the 30s, which means 30% of all television sets were tuned to the World Series. This peaked in 1980 with a 32.8 for a Phillies/Royals matchup. Regionalism didn't matter as much, it was all about the sport itself.

Ratings dropped into the 20s in the 1980s.

In 1995, the year after the strike, the World Series scored a 19.5, its third-lowest rating ever. This was the first year of the wild-card round.

You'd think popularity would recover after a strike. In 1999, they juiced the baseballs or the players or something, and we had the McGwire/Sosa home run chase. The World Series rating in 1999? 16.0 - at that time the second-lowest ever, following 1998.

In fact, 1995 is the highest rating the World Series has garnered since the strike. In 2005, the rating dropped all the way to 11.1 - now its lowest ever. The reason was a Houston/Chicago matchup that apparently didn't appeal to an increasingly regional audience.

The changes in baseball have done two things. First, they've increased the random nature and duration of the playoffs. And second, they've increased the perception that you shouldn't follow the World Series unless your team is participating.

The World Series used to be an event, like the Super Bowl. It used to get almost similar ratings - across an entire series.

Meanwhile, the Super Bowl is as popular as ever, continuing to score ratings between 40 and 45, no matter who plays.

Population is up. So the total number of people watching is fairly similar to the total number of people who used to watch. And increasing populations make it easier for teams to fill their stadiums.

However, popularity is down. An average Monday Night Football game is more popular than a World Series baseball game. Football is as popular as ever, while baseball is about a third as popular as it used to be. The total revenue for a sport that's played on a grand total of 29 days each year now exceeds the total revenue of a sport that's played on about 205 days each year.

Yes, baseball is a healthy sport. I don't believe for a second that the top teams are losing money. But will it be healthy ten years from now? Will franchises fold if there's a dip in the next television contract?

I look at Bud Selig and how the sport is run right now, and I see fear and stupidity. I see a union that's just too powerful. No change can be implemented without a ridiculous amount of angst. I see an ownership group that's so entrenched in greed that all it ever proposes are short-term solutions that don't even begin to address long-term problems. And, in fact (like the All-Star game determining home-field in the World Series), actually do more long-term harm than good.

There's only so much longer baseball can continue to support 30 franchises under this current management and structure. I would not hesitate to call the Wild Card an abject and catastrophic failure. I would not hesitate to call the DH situation (in one league but not in the other) an embarrassment and mockery of the sport. I would not hesitate to call Bud Selig a used car salesman who has never planned anything more than six months in advance.

And then there's Fox Sports, the poster child for how to cannibalize those of us patient enough to stick with the sport, hoping desperately for reform. Televising games like it's MTV televising Pro Wrestling. If they think that appeals to the young generation, just look at the ratings. Look very hard at the ratings.

[Buccaneer]

I agree with so many of these (not all, though) that it makes my head spin.

Imo, a list cannot be put together for the NBA. It is so far down a bad path that nothing can fix it now. Hockey the same, to a lesser extent. I would suspect the list for the NFL would be shorter but some of these do apply (esp. with games becoming unwatchable due to commercial breaks and the announcers).

[Buccaneer]

An average Monday Night Football game is more popular than a World Series baseball game

I will take this to an extreme and say that a bad Monday Night Football matchup would trounce the 7th game of the WS (as in the case of the Ariz-NY 7th gamer), if I recall correctly.

[SirFozzie]

From a recent article about the upcoming change of MNF to espn from ABC.

The broadcast (MNF) attracted an average of 11 percent of the 109.6 million U.S. homes with television sets.

In 2003 and 2004, the last I could find average ratings for in a quick search, it got ratings of 13.9 and 15.8 (admittedly, the curse hooha with the Sox probably jacked that up a bit)

So trounce? No. Even beat? No. Competitive with? yes.

[vtbub]

Allow me to go through these point by point, sorry for the italics:


I've been thinking about this all afternoon for some reason, maybe because I don't have a real job, so I don't have anything better to do with my life. So here's my long and boring manifesto for fixing baseball:

1. Eliminate the DH. Games are too long, and there's enough offense. It adds an element of strategy. It makes the rules simpler - you're either in the lineup or you aren't.

Agree. Pitchers can hit.

2. No telelvision time-outs during pitching changes. The game has changed and there are more situational pitching changes. Why kill interest just when things are heating up? If a game drags out endlessly, this is usually the reason.

Agree. Live ad read works.

3. Players may not leave the batter's box during an at-bat. They may hold one foot out for ten seconds to receive the next signal. In turn, pitchers have 20 seconds to make their next pitch.

Yep. This needs to be enforced.

4. Lower the mid-inning (not end of inning) commercial break to one minute.

I'd do it, but you will never see it happen unless you allow commercials between at-bats. The SRC did this for Expo games. It actually worked.


5. Increase the roster to 27 active players. The increased use of relief pitchers makes this a useful change. Increase the roster limit to 43.

Yep.

6. There needs to be a hard salary cap. Screw the union. Shut down baseball for two years if necessary.

No, no,no. Shutting down the game would be suicide. Even advocating for that is suicide. I'm inclined to support a cap, provided there is a floor as well. I would much rather see the NBA soft cap as supposed to the NFL hard. It is one of the few things the NBA has right.


7. If you have a hard cap, you need real revenue sharing. Even the NFL is going to have some trouble soon if they don't start sharing luxury box and seat license revenue. Tell Steinbrenner he can go take ARod, Jeter, Sheffield, Godzilla, the Big Unit, Mussina and all his other All-Stars and schedule exhibition games with the Coors Silver Bullets. See how many people show up for a full slate of 81 exhibitions. Everything gets shared, especially local television contracts. Make it 55/45 if Steinbrenner produces real tears or beats up an elevator man.

First, you have to guarantee that the "small" market teams actually spend the money on improving their teams and not servicing their bottom lines. Second, the Yankees would draw two million playing against trained monkies. Insead of antagonizing teams with big revenue, share the gate 80/20. And have real accountants do the books and share profits.


8. Merge the leagues, from a schedule and statistical perspective. I don't give a damn that ARod led the AL with 52 home runs in 2001, because Barry Bonds hit 73. Inter-league play is at a weird level, like we're supposed to rejoice when Texas visits Florida, because it only happens once every three years, or six years, depending on the "unbalanced" schedule.

I hate interleaague, ban it. It takes the mystique out the All-Star Game and the World Series. Therefore, easier to keep seperate stats.


9. Four divisions, 7 or 8 teams per division. Keep the "league" designations only for familiarity and minor schedule differences. If you're in a 7-team division, you play teams within your division 11 or 12 times, teams in the 8-team division in your league 6 times and teams in the other league 3 times per season. If you're in an 8-team division, you play teams within your division 10 or 11 times, teams in the 7-team division 6 times and teams in the other league 3 times per season. Obviously, inter-league play goes on all season long. But it won't be a novelty and it won't be played with a different rule set.

See above. I do like the four division setup.

10. Here are the divisions:

AL East - Yankees, Boston, Baltimore, Toronto, Detroit, Tampa Bay, Cleveland.
AL West - Seattle, Angels, Oakland, Minnesota, Milwaukee, Texas, Kansas City, White Sox.
NL East - Mets, Philadelphia, Pittsburgh, Florida, Washington, Atlanta, Cincinnati.
NL West - Cubs, St. Louis, Arizona, Dodgers, San Diego, San Francisco, Colorado, Houston.

These are divided by time zone. It would be fairer to have the east with the 8-team divisions because the travel distances are shorter, but there really isn't a logical candidate to move in either league. Expanding to 32 teams is a good idea, though the best sites are more western.

Yep. I like. Except expansion, too much and too many teams in markets that are not baseball markets. Miami comes to mind.


11. Eliminate the Wild Card round. It's a distraction. I want the regular season to mean more again. Baseball has traditionally balanced on the concept of 1 division or league winner per 7 or 8 teams. In its heydey, there were only two leagues of eight teams.

In your plan, it makes sense. The wild card has been good for baseball, however, because it keeps more teams playing meaningful games longer in the season.


12. The team with the best overall record hosts the World Series (4 games of 7). It was a cute gimmick to have the All-Star game "mean something." But they did it by cheapening the World Series. You don't sacrifice your best milk cow for a nice Thanksgiving dinner. Okay, that analogy sucks, but you get my meaning.

Alternate between leagues, like before. I'm old and grumpy...wait...only one World Series has had the home team win every game (1987). I think home field is more perception then reality.


13. Speaking of the All-Star game, lower rosters to 21. Eight position players, nine pitchers, an extra catcher and three extra players, one of whom will serve as the DH. Yes, the DH will exist only in the All-Star game. Of the nine pitchers, three will be only eligible to pitch if the game enters extra innings. If the All-Star game is tied after 15 innings, it ends right there. People will accept that rule if it's in place beforehand and it's reasonably long that it probably won't ever happen. Obviously, the rule that every team is represented needs to go away, though the host team should be represented and one of the extra position players should be required to go to a current legend of the game (someone like Tony Gwynn in his last season).

I like that each team has a representative, but the rest sounds good.


14. Allow instant replay. The technology is there, and in baseball close plays are going to be pretty clear to an experienced eye.

Yep.


15. Automate balls and strikes calls. Quest-tec was a good idea but a bad implementation. Let's have something fast and let's get the umpires' egos out of the game as much as possible.

Nope. How about actual supervision for the umpires instead. I watch 100-150 regular season games a year and 95% of the post-season. I really cannot complain about ball and strike calls.


16. Back to television. Playoff games can not overlap. This means a return to afternoon games during the LCSes. All weekend playoff games take place during the afternoon.

Mostly agree here. How about 6 PM starts for World Series games instead.


17. Screen graphics should not make noise.

Yes.

Eliminate screen wipes entirely - they just waste time.

Yes.

Tell Fox to go fuck itself.

Why do you think Jeanne Zelasko is pregnant all the time? I have a few words for that idiot McCarver too.

No more closeups of fans throughout the game.

No. Baseball is entertainment. Feeling the intensity of the crowd is part of the experience, unless you are dealing with network stars and non-existant Braves fans.


No more extreme closeups between pitches unless something important happened. No more jump-cutting. No more replays of at-bats in past innings or past games unless it's of incredible historic value (like Reggie Jackson hitting three home runs, or Kirk Gibson gimping his way around the bases) unless you're going into commercial. Think of how annoying that would be during a football game.

Fox takes it to an extreme, but some of that is needed.



I really believe all 17 points are necessary for baseball to make any sort of a comeback. If the owners are happy with steadily declining ratings simply because attendance hasn't yet dropped, they're certifiable. The population has increased quite a bit during the last 20 years, it would stand to reason that ticket sales would increase a little. But the television ratings are a serious problem. The World Series is essentially half of what it was pre-realignment. That just seems unprecedented in recent sports history. Notice I didn't mention the word "steroids" once. Until now.

End of Jim's point/Ron's "counter"point

Baseball's biggest problem is perception. It's perceived to be too slow. It's perceived to be dull, etc.

Baseball is a passive experience. They need a TV partner who understands that it is a NATIONAL game, not a regional one. Give me a reason to watch the Dodgers and Padres and do not assume I don't care because I'm not from SoCal. This years World Series contained two teams with almost no regular season exposure. Put more games on network television, and promote some way for casual viewers to make money watching baseball. The NFL doesn't show viewer attrition because more people care that Joe Schmoe got them 45 fantasy points then whether the Steelers won.

[kcchief19]

Originally Posted by Solecismic

Here's the problem, as I said in the other item:

It's all about television ratings. That generates the multi-billion dollar national contracts. That determines a huge percentage of local revenue. It's not about attendance records.

This is the fundamental problem. Based on their actions and words, I don't think there is any doubt that MLB cares more about revenue than ratings. As ratings continue to slip, they haven't been looking for a way to increase ratings but for ways to increase revenue regardless of ratings. That means shoving advertising into every hole possible, to the point where a major league broadcast is about five years away from looking like a brodcast of a game in the Carolina League, from longer commercial breaks to advertising on the walls, foul poles, bases and the playing surface.

I would whole heartedly support any measures that could be taken to increase ratings. But that will mean MLB will have to accept a short-term revenue hit to increase long-term value. MLB owners have traditionally been a group that has never been able to look more than six months down the road. Short-sighted decisions have done nothing but set baseball further and further back.

The pace of the game is at the heart of all of baseball's problems. But it's a double-edge sword. Longer games have certainly affected ratings and popularity, but they have also contribued to more revenue by creating more advertising opportunities.

I think it's too late to put the cork back in some bottles, and others I think are out of their control. I think going back to two divisions in each league would be a nice move, if only to reduce the likelihood of bad teams making the postseason. I don't think eliminating the wild card is impossible because the networks won't buy it. It's just a matter of time before television dictates to the NFL to add a third wild card team to generate two extra playoff games.

[DaddyTorgo]

eliminate interleague play. interleague play has totally killed the excitement of the All-Star game and to some extent the WS.

[Gallifrey]

I like your ideas Jim. If something big is done, it may bring back me...an old big time baseball fan that hasn't watched a game on TV in maybe 7 years and not a World Series game since....maybe 1993?

MLB is boring. They lost me and everyone I know but two guys years ago. Those guys are hanging on to something...I think what it is really is that they have hours to kill all the time when they can watch guys adjust their gloves ten billion times each at bat...think about something who knows what between every pitch...pitching changes for someone to throw to one guy and then another change...

And the All-Star game? They should just give it up.

[kcchief19]

See, I don't think interleague play killed the all-star game -- I think money and the attitude of today's players killed the game.

For me, the all-star game started it's trouble when you first started seeing players with digital camers and camcorders on the field before the game and in the dugouts. Ten years ago, teams actually cared about winning the all-star game and tried to win. Now everbody just tries not to get hurt. Joe Torre didn't help either. He tarnished the all-star game beyond repair with his "everybody should play" policy that led to the tied game debacle.

It's not an ideal solution, but I like the idea of the all-star game determining home field for the World Series because it actually made a few people try. The baseball all-star game used to be one of the best things about the support because unlike the other games that were just exhibitions it was an actual competition.

I suppose the best solution is to admit that millionaires have no interested in putting themselves on the line for an all-star game and that it will never be the same. Too bad.

[AENeuman]

Commercials are not the problem, just an easy scapegoat. Having three commercial breaks after a team scores a touchdown is the real crime. Eliminating commercials is a good thing because they suck and they are not the game. If one does not enjoy a 2-1 pitcher/defense battle no limit on commercials will help them. if you can't enjoy a 2 1/2 hour john miller game at the park or on the radio baseball just may not be your thing, that does not mean baseball has to change...
Also, wouldn't lowering the mid inning break always screw the road team pitcher?

[larrymcg421]

Alternate between leagues, like before. I'm old and grumpy...wait...only one World Series has had the home team win every game (1987). I think home field is more perception then reality.

It happened in 1991 as well.

I also don't agree that it's perception. Look at the Home/Road records for teams last season. I don't have time to add it all up but it clearly favors the home team. Only 6 teams had better road records than home records. The Braves were only 37-44 on the road. They needed a 53-28 record at home (2nd only to the Red Sox) to win their division. The Red Six and Yankees were barely better than .500 on the road.

[kcchief19]

Originally Posted by AENeuman

If one does not enjoy a 2-1 pitcher/defense battle no limit on commercials will help them. if you can't enjoy a 2 1/2 hour john miller game at the park or on the radio baseball just may not be your thing, that does not mean baseball has to change...

That's the problem. How many 2-1, 2 1/2 hour games are there? Not enough. MLB has speed up the games a bit -- the average game was 2:46 last year, 12 minutes faster than in 2000. But this year's postseason games averaged more than 3 hours. If the typical game was 2 1/2 hours or less, I think interest would go up. Commercials are part of the problem because baseball has added at least 10 minutes of commercials to the average telecast during decade.

Originally Posted by AENeuman

Also, wouldn't lowering the mid inning break always screw the road team pitcher?

No more so that currently. I used to be a board operator for radio station broadcasting St. Louis Cardinals games, and 12 years ago it was basically 90-second breaks between innings and 60-second breaks during half innings except for the seventh-inning with was I believe a two-minute break. Pitching changes were sold at the local station option -- the network would do a silent cue for a 30-second local break where you break for a commercial. We only sold one pitching change per game because it was too much of a pain to schedule make goods if you had a game where there no mid-inning pitching changes.

I think the inning breaks now are either 90-seconds or two minutes between all innings. That's essentially adding one minute of commercial time every inning -- and I'll bet nationally broadcast games have even longer breaks.

The length of games and commercials has been acute in baseball, but it's going to effect other sports as well. It's ridiculous when Monday Night Football has a regulation game go past midnight in the central time zone. I believe ESPN is moving up the game time for next year. But there have been regulation college football games last more than 4 hours this year. That's just silly. Some of that is due to stoppages of play and instant replay, but a lot of it is due to the number and length of station breaks.

[Huckleberry]

4. Lower the mid-inning (not end of inning) commercial break to one minute.

That would give a competitive advantage to the home team in the NL and also in the AL if item 1 is implemented.

[flere-imsaho]

Originally Posted by kcchief19

Ten years ago, teams actually cared about winning the all-star game and tried to win. Now everbody just tries not to get hurt.

I can't say I blame them. Why injure yourself in a game that will not impact your chances of winning the World Series? The NFL has this right - put the All-Star Game at the end of the season or (as the NBA's done) make it clear that it's going to be a complete farce.

The length of games and commercials has been acute in baseball, but it's going to effect other sports as well. It's ridiculous when Monday Night Football has a regulation game go past midnight in the central time zone.

I agree with this 100%, but until fans start to turn off the games, there's no incentive for the networks to not continue to expand the amount of commercials they show.

As it stands now, if it wasn't for my Tivo, there's a very good chance I'd only watch one NFL game on Sunday before giving up in frustration. In fact, what I do now is start watching the Sunday games at around 2:30 Central (about when I return from Ultimate Frisbee) and by the time I catch up with the live broadcast, I'm done watching the games.

[Young Drachma]

Playing OOTP and the end of the baseball season always makes me wonder about the stagnant nature of baseball and the so-called 'traditionalists' that really screw the game over. If traditionalists had their way in sports like hockey, we wouldn't have teams playing in the Sun Belt, if there were traditionalists in football, college football wouldn't have a playoff.

Oh wait.

Anyway, expand active rosters to 27, sure. But eliminate the DH? No way. Standardize it across both leagues. And expansion doesn't dilute talent, nor do expanded playoffs.

We're in an era of the casual fan and baseball's dying because people stop being interested after July, August or at the worst, early September. That just doesn't match up with other sports. The season should be 154 games again and the playoffs should add another round call the Wild Card Series. I don't buy this idea that there is a static amount of baseball people want to watch, that it won't grow if there is more out there for them to enjoy. I think football and baseball appeal to completely different types of people and there is a reason the game peaked after the strike as if nothing had happened and it had nothing to do with bulky dudes hitting home runs. It's because baseball is part of the culture and that there are plenty of people who would gladly take it all in, if it was accessible to them. And I think on some level, baseball is beleaguered with all of

Right now, if you're letting one crappy Wild Card team in to pick off top teams, might as well let others in and have it be a free-for-all of silliness. And on the point of expansion, if you eventually expand to say 40 teams, you'll have 3 or 4 teams in NY, 3 in LA, 2 in the Bay Area, add another team to another metropolis rich in baseball tradition (Chicago, Philly or Boston..take your pick) and then pick five other cities (Portland, San Antonio, Monterrey in Mexico, Charlotte and one other city) and that mitigates the idea that there might not be enough big city teams watching the games in the playoffs because their teams all fall bad at the same time.

But even without that fanciful idea, if you just move the Marlins to Portland and move the Devil Rays (eventually) to Orlando, you can solve the Florida problem (heck, even name the moved Devil Rays the Marlins and pull a Cleveland Browns with their history) and add a new rival to the Mariners by putting the Beavers or Green Sox or whatever in the AL West, move the new Marlins to the NL East and that'll tide things over for a while.

[Young Drachma]

And yes, I know. I brought an old thread back from the dead. But I thought it'd be interesting to see what people thought about Jim's original idea a few years later, after I read through it again or to see if people who wrote changed their thoughts a few years on.

[Warhammer]

I agree even more strongly with Jim. I watched an Angels game a few weeks back. The Angels were down a few runs, they get back to a run down with the winning run at second. Garret Anderson winds up striking out on a bad call.

Regardless of the result, it was great to watch, and even my wife was watching. But, it was so slow it was almost painful. I understand taking a minute, but it seemed like a pitch a minute. The last inning took at least 45 minutes to play out.

Baseball needs to play faster. I understand that it is not basketball or hockey, but they really need to pick up the pace of play. Taking 3 or 4 hours for a slow paced game to play out is not going to hold anyone's attention. Even for games I am interested in, I typically wait until 2 hours through, turn it on, see if it is interesting, and then tune out until the 8th or 9th.

[RendeR]

I agree wholeheartedly with jim's years old take on this. The only thing I' add is the salary cap issue needs to have spending requirements. Teams MUST make use of all the shared revenue to improve their team and their facilities. If they don't spend what they're given they get penalized somehow.

[Young Drachma]

I went to a Rockies game over a week ago and it couldn't have been more than 2 1/2 hours long. It was a 4-2 game, but it moved along briskly.

Watching baseball on TV is slow, admittedly. But the ballpark experience to me never "drags" on like say, a football game. With all of the TV timeouts, even at the college level...football can be a painful sport to watch...especially in the winter.

[Subby]

Missed this the first time around - I completely in agreement with every single point that he made...

[Atocep]

6. There needs to be a hard salary cap. Screw the union. Shut down baseball for two years if necessary.

A hard cap will not work in baseball. Teams handle their television deals and they have long-term contracts in place. The NFL handles its own television contracts and that is a big reason their revenue sharing and hard cap works.

11. Eliminate the Wild Card round. It's a distraction. I want the regular season to mean more again. Baseball has traditionally balanced on the concept of 1 division or league winner per 7 or 8 teams. In its heydey, there were only two leagues of eight teams.

The Wild Card means more revenue and still allows baseball to have the most meaningful regular season of any of the sports. It also keeps seats full toward the end of the season since more teams have a shot at the playoffs. Take the wild card away and you screw the fans that you're trying to help here.

I really believe all 17 points are necessary for baseball to make any sort of a comeback.

Baseball just enjoyed its most successful year ever last season. More revenue sharing, a minimum for team payrolls, and forcing teams to show how all shared revenue was used each season would help make baseball better. However, baseball is fine, it doesn't need an overhaul.

[Schmidty]

I love the DH. I love the Wildcard. I love interleague play. I love closeups of chicks in the stands.

I hate the idea of instant replay. I hate the idea of automated balls and strikes. I hate the idea of merging the leagues into only four divisions.

I guess I basically disagree with 75% of what Jim said, especially killing the wilcard, which to me is one of the greatest things baseball has implemented in recent history. It creates much more interest late in the season, because unless a person is a rabid baseball fan (maybe only 20% of fans), no one is going to pay attention to games once their team is out of it. And with only 4 teams out of 30 (unlike back in the day) making it, and maybe 2-3 others being in the hunt late, the game would suffer immensely.

[Crapshoot]

I don't want a salary cap
- I don't want outlandish revenue sharing scheme
- I don't want baseball turned into the NFL,
-I don't want to increase roster sizes even further to aid the Tony La-Russification of baseball
- I don't want to get rid of the wild card
- I don't want to lose the leagues.

Basically, the only thing I could agree with is automated balls and strikes (at some level), instant replay and the best record bit. The rest are either populist (less ad time means less money) or nonsensical.

[Young Drachma]

I would get rid of the anti-trust exemption and let teams move where they want.

[miked]

I love the DH. I'm a fan of good pitching beating good hitting. I hate watching some silly pitcher go up and wave his bat erratically at 3 pitches because he doesn't (and shouldn't) take BP ever. Sometimes they manage to get a bunt down, but I hardly consider this exceptional strategy. I'd rather see a pitcher earn his K's and such rather than a batter off every 2-3 innings.

A salary cap would be a bit silly given the revenue discrepancies in league. I don't want 30 equally mediocre teams. It wouldn't hurt to do a minimum salary cap, so the Pohlads and others in the league could stop pocketing revenue sharing money, or the Reds/Pirates could actually try and field a competitive team one of these days. But it's a business, so I guess they need some kind of incentive to spend money, since apparently enough fans will venture to the park.

One big step toward fixing baseball would be contraction and banning Loria from the league forever. He is like the Hell Atlantic of real baseball.

[Young Drachma]

Loria is the devil. And baseball is still corrupt for what they did to the Expos.

I don't believe in contraction, though. I don't believe in artificial limits on the "top-tier" of talent and since we don't have relegation/promotion here, I think expansion is the only way to account for the massive growth of the country since the game began.

[Cringer]

Originally Posted by Dark Cloud

And yes, I know. I brought an old thread back from the dead. But I thought it'd be interesting to see what people thought about Jim's original idea a few years later, after I read through it again or to see if people who wrote changed their thoughts a few years on.

I was shocked to see I even had an opinion, and don't even remember it. I like my opinion though, and will stick with it. Even the one where I said people are going to think this is about a FO game.

[Sgran]

I agree with all of the points except for number 3. There is no reason to force batters into the box before they're ready, and you wouldn't save much time in the grand scheme of things. Other sports have time limits for things like free throws because they are sports of exertion. Baseball is not. It is one of concentration. The pitcher and batter should be given time to deliver quality performance. I agree wholeheartedly with Dark Cloud: when you're at the park the pace feels right.

[Bubba Wheels]

Ok, get ready to hit me, but...

Does the fact that most baseball players these days seem to be from parts other than America also drag down interest?

I mean, unlike football and basketball, Latin players especially have backgrounds that most Americans don't really indentify with. Does great talent alone really make up for this?

[Schmidty]

I just can't believe that anyone could be against the wildcard, even the traditionalists. Since the WC has been instituted, the game has come back from the dead, and has been getting more and more popular by the year.

I guess it's just a case of Buccaneer-itis.

[Buccaneer]

Originally Posted by Schmidty

I just can't believe that anyone could be against the wildcard, even the traditionalists. Since the WC has been instituted, the game has come back from the dead, and has been getting more and more popular by the year.

I guess it's just a case of Buccaneer-itis.

More accurately Solec-itis since Jim was the one proposing it. I agreed with most of his points, but not all.

In the Golden Age, you had 12.5% team making the playoffs, then it went down to 10% briefly. Then for a long while, it was 16.7%. To keep it around that percentage, you would just have the division winners, which would be an odd number. I believe 4-team divisions are too small and think 6 is better. Contract some teams to get back to 24 and we'll be cool. Also, I have always advocated a small playoffs/bowls in all sports. I hate rewarding mediocracy.

[Young Drachma]

Originally Posted by Bubba Wheels

Ok, get ready to hit me, but...

Does the fact that most baseball players these days seem to be from parts other than America also drag down interest?

I mean, unlike football and basketball, Latin players especially have backgrounds that most Americans don't really indentify with. Does great talent alone really make up for this?

I think this is a valid point, actually. I think it hurts hockey, too.

[Crapshoot]

Originally Posted by Bubba Wheels

Ok, get ready to hit me, but...

Does the fact that most baseball players these days seem to be from parts other than America also drag down interest?

I mean, unlike football and basketball, Latin players especially have backgrounds that most Americans don't really indentify with. Does great talent alone really make up for this?

Uhh, I disagree. You're telling me Vlad's story is less compelling than anyone else's? El Duque is less interesting because of where he came from? I watch baseball - I want to see the best, and I could care less where they are coming from. Same thing with something like soccer - most of the soccer fans here prefer the Premier League or La Liga, because the quality of the game is so much higher.

[Young Drachma]

I think the so-called "die hard" fan wants fewer teams and more Americans. I think people who could get into baseball and who have more than a passing interest in the game, could care less.

Baseball has a nice talent pool that's not getting smaller. There are pockets of interest in lots of places and it's not shrinking by any stretch. I think the game can keep listening to traditionalists if it wants to and they'll kill of the game and cause a schism in the next 20 years or so. That's all that's driven baseball's growth in the first place to date.

And in terms of desire or attendance, I'd been looking for this number for a while, but there were over 49 million fans who attended affiliated minor league games this year.

And last year, MLB had 75 million. I realize that's a lot of the same people, but what league can rival that?

[SteveMax58]

I think a time limit for pitchers/batters is reasonable, but it should only be to reduce the obnoxious offenders of time wasting. If you require 45 seconds between pitches, you simply dont have the focus, skills, stamina, etc. to pitch at that level.

Something I havent seen mentioned is...how big of an effect does the "randomization" of team rosters have on fans who do not see basically the same team from a given year to (not so much next year) but over the course of a few years. Obviously, if your team stinks, you expect some changes to be made...but why shouldnt a team like the Twins be able to afford to keep their "rising" stars once they become "real" stars. I'm not sure if a hard salary cap fixes this...but maybe coupled with a minimum payroll it helps.

Thos 2 seem to be my biggest pet-peeves withe game today...not so much things like divisional alignments, etc.

[Buccaneer]

Originally Posted by Dark Cloud

I think the so-called "die hard" fan wants fewer teams and more Americans. I think people who could get into baseball and who have more than a passing interest in the game, could care less.

Baseball has a nice talent pool that's not getting smaller. There are pockets of interest in lots of places and it's not shrinking by any stretch. I think the game can keep listening to traditionalists if it wants to and they'll kill of the game and cause a schism in the next 20 years or so. That's all that's driven baseball's growth in the first place to date.

And in terms of desire or attendance, I'd been looking for this number for a while, but there were over 49 million fans who attended affiliated minor league games this year.

And last year, MLB had 75 million. I realize that's a lot of the same people, but what league can rival that?

I think you hit on a key point and that is the interest at the grassroots level. Minor leagues (all levels) used to be very prolific and held the interest of young and old alike, and the game was very accessible. I believe this is the way it is in Latin America but we had lost that here, or at least it had lost out to other sports.

[MizzouRah]

12. The team with the best overall record hosts the World Series (4 games of 7). It was a cute gimmick to have the All-Star game "mean something." But they did it by cheapening the World Series. You don't sacrifice your best milk cow for a nice Thanksgiving dinner. Okay, that analogy sucks, but you get my meaning

Amen.

[Jim G.]

A quarter-century of progress:

1981: World Series Average Rating: 30.0/49 Share.
2006: World Series Average Rating: 10.1/17 Share.

1981: Super Bowl Rating: 44.4/63 Share.
2007: Super Bowl Rating: 42.6/64 Share.


A few days ago, baseball was on center stage with a series between the Red Sox and the Yankees, potential playoff spots on the line.

A nine-inning game required 4 hours and 43 minutes. Which worked out to about 31 seconds between pitches, on average (not including about 51 minutes in commercials).

You have your best matchup, and you wind up boring people to the verge of tears. There's no way kids could have stayed up for the Yankees' late rally in that game. It was too long for anyone's attention. Even fans of cricket's five-day international test matches were yawning.

Baseball is broken, and the television ratings are proof.

I stand behind my reasoning, a couple of years ago, that the wild card is partly to blame. Wild cards work with 16-game seasons. But if you cannibalize a 162-game season to help one or two mediocre teams hang in there for an extra week, you kill your national fan base.

Just kill the wild card, go to a four-division, conference (not league) structure, and enforce the 12-second rule between pitches. It will be a much better product.

[sterlingice]

I think there's something to be said for the Yankees-Red Sox game that no one really hits on. Every single one of the hitters on those teams (pitchers, too) think they are the center of the universe and they all have a 30 second routine between pitches. You watch other teams and you'll see that maybe a big hitter or two does that but not every player and not on every pitch.

SI

[Crapshoot]

Originally Posted by sterlingice

I think there's something to be said for the Yankees-Red Sox game that no one really hits on. Every single one of the hitters on those teams (pitchers, too) think they are the center of the universe and they all have a 30 second routine between pitches. You watch other teams and you'll see that maybe a big hitter or two does that but not every player and not on every pitch.

SI

SI, I'm convinced you have some sort of big-city obsession. You didn't like Seinfeld because it was about New Yorkers, you don't like that New York-Boston is the biggest series in baseball (I'm a Giants fan - we can face the truth ). I get it - you don't like them. But this comes across as bitterness.

[sterlingice]

Originally Posted by Crapshoot

SI, I'm convinced you have some sort of big-city obsession. You didn't like Seinfeld because it was about New Yorkers, you don't like that New York-Boston is the biggest series in baseball (I'm a Giants fan - we can face the truth ). I get it - you don't like them. But this comes across as bitterness.

Because, yes, a dislike of Seinfeld (and I think Friends was stupid, too, but liked Taxi- noodle that! ) and an explaination of why a 9 inning game took almost 5 hours constitutes a dislike for big cities. Tho if you wanted to level a criticism that I think pretty much everything in New York is overblown, overhyped, and overexposed, you'd have some pretty strong legs to stand on.

Seriously, tho. Watch the ESPN game tonight (looks like Cubs/Reds) and then compare it with the Red Sox/Yankees game. I haven't seen many Reds games this year but for the Cubs, it's not like their average hitters (say, DeRosa or Theroit) take 20 seconds to get set and have a routine- adjust the batting helmet, play with gloves, kick the dirt, whatever, for every single pitch. Royals fans poke fun at Mike Sweeney because he has this little ritual with his batting gloves every pitch where he has to take them off, readjust them, and put them back on that grinds the game to a halt when he's up. It's as if he has to remind people that he's the big hitter. Pretty much every hitter on both the Yankees and Red Sox have this sort of thing and it can really bog the game down. That's how a 7-6 Cubs/Reds game took 3:04 Monday while a 8-7 Red Sox/Yankees game took 4:43.

SI

[larrymcg421]

Originally Posted by Crapshoot

SI, I'm convinced you have some sort of big-city obsession. You didn't like Seinfeld because it was about New Yorkers, you don't like that New York-Boston is the biggest series in baseball (I'm a Giants fan - we can face the truth ). I get it - you don't like them. But this comes across as bitterness.

I can't stand responses like this. Why not respond to the arguments he made if you disagree with him? Instead, you have to look for some sort of motive regarding his taste in TV shows. That's kinda silly, but if we're gonna go there, i know he likes Sports Night too, and that show fellated New York frequently.