Case Study: Little Media Myths (lies!)

Fritz · 06-18-2003, 01:00 PM

Little media lies

Quote:

ESPN says:

MLB Ray Lewis, Baltimore: That the Ravens hung around in playoff contention into the final week of the season, coming in a year when past salary cap excesses forced a painful roster purge, was admirable. That they did so without Lewis, whose shoulder injury kept him out of 11 contests, was nothing shy of remarkable. Lewis is this team's spiritual and physical leader, the rare player with the capacity to will his team to victory, and if he can return to form, the Ravens could be a handful in 2003. Lewis has worked in minicamps, but don't be surprised if the staff keeps the reins on him a bit early in camp.

Regular season record:

2002 NFL Baltimore Ravens 7-9-0
2001 NFL Baltimore Ravens 10-6-0
2000 NFL Baltimore Ravens 12-4-0
1999 NFL Baltimore Ravens 8-8-0
1998 NFL Baltimore Ravens 6-10-0
1997 NFL Baltimore Ravens 6-9-1
1996 NFL Baltimore Ravens 4-12-0

So two winning seasons....

scooper · 06-18-2003, 01:02 PM

So, I guess he didn't want to win those other games.

scooper · 06-18-2003, 01:11 PM

And he's good with a knife.

sterlingice · 06-18-2003, 01:43 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by scooper
So, I guess he didn't want to win those other games.

No, he just doesn't will his team to victory- they still lose. A lot. I swear, the Ravens are one of the most overrated teams ever: best defense ever, my ass. Playing crappy teams in a crappy division and a last place schedule and still only winning 12 en route to the Super Bowl speaks more to the competition than anything.

SI

ice4277 · 06-18-2003, 04:40 PM

I think the Ravens were the worst team to win a Super Bowl in the last 20 years, and they will be lucky to get to another AFC Championship Game much less the big one.

kcchief19 · 06-18-2003, 04:42 PM

Do you seriously think that in any of these seasons the Ravens would have won as many games with Lewis as they did with? In his weakest seasons, I would say that Lewis' mere presence was with at least one or two wins. In the Super Bowl season, he was that team. Take off Lewis and I think they are an 8-8 team.

If you interpret "will his team to victory" as meaning 16-0 seasons, they no, he does not have this capacity. If you define it as the ability to "will" his team to more victories than they would win without him, then I think he does.

By the way -- I hate Ray Lewis. Given the chance and the knowledge that his posse wasn't around, I'd kick him in the nuts.

Axxon · 06-18-2003, 04:47 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by kcchief19
Do you seriously think that in any of these seasons the Ravens would have won as many games with Lewis as they did with?

Um, yes.

tucker342 · 06-18-2003, 04:49 PM

I agree kcchief. Also, it doesn't matter how easy the schedule was, they still gave up the least amount of points in history, and that's pretty damn impressive. Lewis was the main reason for that...

BucDawg40 · 06-18-2003, 04:51 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by scooper
So, I guess he didn't want to win those other games.

Wrong. It was the Judeo-Christian deity that didn't want him to win the other games. You see, the other team prayed harder in each of those instances.

Axxon · 06-18-2003, 04:54 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by BucDawg40
Wrong. It was the Judeo-Christian deity that didn't want him to win the other games. You see, the other team prayed harder in each of those instances.

Which makes a lot of sense. I'd pray pretty hard too if I was about to face Lewis and the rest of that defense.

Easy Mac · 06-18-2003, 04:57 PM

[quote]Originally posted by kcchief19
[b]In his weakest seasons, I would say that Lewis' mere presence was with at least one or two wins.

Dilfer was worth 7 in the Super Bowl season

Aylmar · 06-18-2003, 04:59 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by tucker342
I agree kcchief. Also, it doesn't matter how easy the schedule was, they still gave up the least amount of points in history

Ahem...in a sixteen game schedule (165 -- 10.3/game). I can name at least one defense ('76 Steelers) who gave up less over a fourteen game schedule (138 -- 9.8/game). The '76 Steeler defense is also the one that holds the record for most shutouts in a single season (5).

Blackadar · 06-18-2003, 07:21 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Aylmar
Ahem...in a sixteen game schedule (165 -- 10.3/game). I can name at least one defense ('76 Steelers) who gave up less over a fourteen game schedule (138 -- 9.8/game). The '76 Steeler defense is also the one that holds the record for most shutouts in a single season (5).

Thank you for posting that - I was going to. What was it, something like 5 Hall of Famers and 9-10 All-Pros on that '76 defensive squad?

Fritz · 06-18-2003, 09:00 PM

RANK
Year TEAM REC PT YD
2002 NFL Baltimore Ravens 7-9-0 19 22
2001 NFL Baltimore Ravens 10-6-0 4 4
2000 NFL Baltimore Ravens 12-4-0 1 1
1999 NFL Baltimore Ravens 8-8-0 6 2
1998 NFL Baltimore Ravens 6-10-0 16 23
1997 NFL Baltimore Ravens 6-9-1 18 27
1996 NFL Baltimore Ravens 4-12-0 28 30

They ravens with Lewis have a 3 year period where they are not average.

The Media Myth "wills a team to win" is just not reflected in the tream record. I don't have the stats, but i wonder how many of these games were come from behind victories and how many were chokejob losses.

ice4277 · 06-18-2003, 09:06 PM

Maybe I'm just as not as smart about football as I thought I was but I can't figure out what 'PT' and 'YD' mean from the table above

Blackadar · 06-18-2003, 09:12 PM

Points allowed (league rank) and yards allowed (league rank)

3 year period, Fritz? I see only two winning seasons, total. And 10-6 isn't something to write home about.

AgPete · 06-19-2003, 12:51 AM

Except for Brian Urlacher, I can't think of a middle linebacker I'd like to see on my team more than Ray Lewis. No one player wills a team to victory - Montana had Rice, Emmitt had his oline, and the list goes on but it certainly helps to have one of the elite players at a position, especially a MLB in the modern-day 4-3 NFL.

JAG · 06-19-2003, 02:54 AM

(Tongue in cheek)

Well sure it took four years for him to develop the ability to will his team to win, and then he was injured last year. There.

Or maybe what it means is it's easier to will your team to win from the MLB position with Siragusa and Adams as your DT's...

Fritz · 06-19-2003, 05:38 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Blackadar
Points allowed (league rank) and yards allowed (league rank)

3 year period, Fritz? I see only two winning seasons, total. And 10-6 isn't something to write home about.

3 year period where they were a top D. I already made the point about only 2 winning season.

Blackadar · 06-19-2003, 06:08 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Fritz
3 year period where they were a top D. I already made the point about only 2 winning season.

Hell, I still think they're a top D.

Axxon · 06-19-2003, 06:17 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Blackadar
Hell, I still think they're a top D.

May I introduce you to Mr Sapp, Mr Brooks, Mr Rice etc, etc? I think they'd show you what a top D is.

Come on though, seriously, they've stayed elite for far more years than the Raisons ( thanks Terry B ). The offense has sucked but this D has been elite and for damned longer term than them.

Blackadar · 06-19-2003, 06:26 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Axxon
May I introduce you to Mr Sapp, Mr Brooks, Mr Rice etc, etc? I think they'd show you what a top D is.

Come on though, seriously, they've stayed elite for far more years than the Raisons ( thanks Terry B ). The offense has sucked but this D has been elite and for damned longer term than them.

I said A top D, not THE top D.

That, of course, would belong to the 70s Steelers.

Axxon · 06-19-2003, 06:51 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Blackadar
I said A top D, not THE top D.

That, of course, would belong to the 70s Steelers.

As a fan of those Steelers I wouldn't argue ( imagine how cool it was for ME when Tony Dungy became the Buccaneers head coach ). They were supreme but my Buccs aren't exactly underachievers either.

Fritz · 06-19-2003, 07:00 AM

Year TEAM REC PT YD

2002 NFL Tampa Bay Buccaneers 12-4-0 1 1
2001 NFL Tampa Bay Buccaneers 9-7-0 8 6
2000 NFL Tampa Bay Buccaneers 10-6-0 8 12
1999 NFL Tampa Bay Buccaneers 11-5-0 3 3
1998 NFL Tampa Bay Buccaneers 8-8-0 5 2
1997 NFL Tampa Bay Buccaneers 10-6-0 2 3
1996 NFL Tampa Bay Buccaneers 6-10-0 9 9

---

06-18-2003, 09:00 PM	#14
Fritz Lethargic Hooligan Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: hello kitty found my wallet at a big tent revival and returned it with all the cash missing	RANK Year TEAM REC PT YD 2002 NFL Baltimore Ravens 7-9-0 19 22 2001 NFL Baltimore Ravens 10-6-0 4 4 2000 NFL Baltimore Ravens 12-4-0 1 1 1999 NFL Baltimore Ravens 8-8-0 6 2 1998 NFL Baltimore Ravens 6-10-0 16 23 1997 NFL Baltimore Ravens 6-9-1 18 27 1996 NFL Baltimore Ravens 4-12-0 28 30 They ravens with Lewis have a 3 year period where they are not average. The Media Myth "wills a team to win" is just not reflected in the tream record. I don't have the stats, but i wonder how many of these games were come from behind victories and how many were chokejob losses. __________________ donkey, donkey, walk a little faster

06-19-2003, 12:51 AM	#17
AgPete College Prospect Join Date: Jan 2001	Except for Brian Urlacher, I can't think of a middle linebacker I'd like to see on my team more than Ray Lewis. No one player wills a team to victory - Montana had Rice, Emmitt had his oline, and the list goes on but it certainly helps to have one of the elite players at a position, especially a MLB in the modern-day 4-3 NFL. __________________ Click here for the FOF2004 World Football League Dynasty (WFL) - Football Goes Global! OOTP5 Psychology Experiment (Incomplete but fun read for MLB fans.) The FOFC All-Time NFL Team - Voted on by FOFC members.

06-19-2003, 07:00 AM	#24
Fritz Lethargic Hooligan Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: hello kitty found my wallet at a big tent revival and returned it with all the cash missing	Year TEAM REC PT YD 2002 NFL Tampa Bay Buccaneers 12-4-0 1 1 2001 NFL Tampa Bay Buccaneers 9-7-0 8 6 2000 NFL Tampa Bay Buccaneers 10-6-0 8 12 1999 NFL Tampa Bay Buccaneers 11-5-0 3 3 1998 NFL Tampa Bay Buccaneers 8-8-0 5 2 1997 NFL Tampa Bay Buccaneers 10-6-0 2 3 1996 NFL Tampa Bay Buccaneers 6-10-0 9 9 --- __________________ donkey, donkey, walk a little faster

06-18-2003, 01:02 PM	#2
scooper College Benchwarmer Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: Cinn City	So, I guess he didn't want to win those other games.

06-18-2003, 01:11 PM	#3
scooper College Benchwarmer Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: Cinn City	And he's good with a knife.

06-18-2003, 04:40 PM	#5
ice4277 Pro Rookie Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: Berkley, MI: The Hotbed of FOFC!	I think the Ravens were the worst team to win a Super Bowl in the last 20 years, and they will be lucky to get to another AFC Championship Game much less the big one.

06-18-2003, 04:42 PM	#6
kcchief19 Pro Starter Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: Kansas City, MO	Do you seriously think that in any of these seasons the Ravens would have won as many games with Lewis as they did with? In his weakest seasons, I would say that Lewis' mere presence was with at least one or two wins. In the Super Bowl season, he was that team. Take off Lewis and I think they are an 8-8 team. If you interpret "will his team to victory" as meaning 16-0 seasons, they no, he does not have this capacity. If you define it as the ability to "will" his team to more victories than they would win without him, then I think he does. By the way -- I hate Ray Lewis. Given the chance and the knowledge that his posse wasn't around, I'd kick him in the nuts.

06-18-2003, 04:49 PM	#8
tucker342 Pro Starter Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Iowa City, IA	I agree kcchief. Also, it doesn't matter how easy the schedule was, they still gave up the least amount of points in history, and that's pretty damn impressive. Lewis was the main reason for that...

06-18-2003, 04:57 PM	#11
Easy Mac Registered User Join Date: Nov 2001 Location: Here	[quote]Originally posted by kcchief19 [b]In his weakest seasons, I would say that Lewis' mere presence was with at least one or two wins. Dilfer was worth 7 in the Super Bowl season

06-18-2003, 09:06 PM	#15
ice4277 Pro Rookie Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: Berkley, MI: The Hotbed of FOFC!	Maybe I'm just as not as smart about football as I thought I was but I can't figure out what 'PT' and 'YD' mean from the table above

06-18-2003, 09:12 PM	#16
Blackadar Retired Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: Fantasyland	Points allowed (league rank) and yards allowed (league rank) 3 year period, Fritz? I see only two winning seasons, total. And 10-6 isn't something to write home about.

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