MNF: Dolphins-Eagles

cthomer5000 · 12-15-2003, 08:20 PM

I love how the Dolphins are already in full depseration mode after 1:11. We've already seen a reverse on the kick return, and them going for it on 4th down in a questionable early-game situation.

sabotai · 12-15-2003, 08:31 PM

Dolphins at the 1 yard line after a great catch. (I think it was a TD, but no matter because they just got the TD)

cthomer5000 · 12-15-2003, 08:33 PM

Not a bad drive by Miami. You can definitely sense they know what's at stake tonight.

illinifan999 · 12-15-2003, 08:35 PM

I'm so conflicted. I want them to win because I'm a Dolphin fan, but them losing would solidify Wanny's firing. Oh screw it, GO DOLPHINS!!!!!!!

cthomer5000 · 12-15-2003, 08:39 PM

Wow... that was a video-game like blitz on 3rd and 5 there. There had to be 8 guys coming.

cthomer5000 · 12-15-2003, 08:41 PM

Bah... L.J. Smith could have brought that in... looked like he just got the wind knocked out of him...

do it for Rutgers, L.J.!

cthomer5000 · 12-15-2003, 08:43 PM

1 yard TD run by McNabb... 14-7 Eagles.

illinifan999 · 12-15-2003, 08:46 PM

Booooo.......

cthomer5000 · 12-15-2003, 08:55 PM

And now we have Miami already challenging a call.... Desperation coaching continues.

illinifan999 · 12-15-2003, 08:59 PM

Fire him! Fire him!

MizzouRah · 12-15-2003, 09:00 PM

GO DOLPHINS!

Todd

JAG · 12-15-2003, 09:05 PM

Holy cow has this game had some plays...and the Dolphins' defense needs to relearn that tackling thing they're supposed to do.

cthomer5000 · 12-15-2003, 09:17 PM

Bizzare interception... bounced off of L.J. Smith's foot ...diving grab by Zach Thomas.

cthomer5000 · 12-15-2003, 09:23 PM

Desperation Coaching update:

Going for it on 4th and 7 rather than letting their strong-legged kicker try a 50 yarder.

Robbiero67 · 12-15-2003, 09:56 PM

Well, I can't stand Wannestadt either, but I have to say the way Mare has been kicking tonight I too would have gone for it on 4th down. Immediately before halftime he just barely pulled out a 27 yarder. Not to mention his poorly executed XP's.

Qwikshot · 12-15-2003, 10:08 PM

Go Eagles!

Ksyrup · 12-15-2003, 10:11 PM

I wouldn't have expected 48 points from these two teams in 3 full games, let alone in about 35 minutes. Strange game, this NFL football.

JAG · 12-15-2003, 10:23 PM

LOL, now that's something I don't think I've ever seen in football. Pass interference called on a guard.

pjstp20 · 12-15-2003, 10:41 PM

Dolphins have been nailed by some questionable calls. That pass interference being the latest. I hate it when refs effect the game, but thats just how it goes.

pjstp20 · 12-15-2003, 10:46 PM

Fickle ass Dolphin fans. It seems like there are more Eagles in the crowd tonight.

MikeVic · 12-15-2003, 10:58 PM

Go Turk go!

pjstp20 · 12-15-2003, 11:02 PM

Damn he looked scary carring that ball. We'll we didnt get any points out of it, but Eagles on the 3 is a lot better than blocked punt.

pjstp20 · 12-15-2003, 11:14 PM

Well Dave it's time to say good bye.

tucker342 · 12-16-2003, 12:14 AM

How could Dolphin fans ever expect their team to win at this point in the year? It's December, the Dolphins ALWAYS choke

The_herd · 12-16-2003, 12:18 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by pjstp20
Damn he looked scary carring that ball.

Did anyone notice him try to "juke" the defensive back during that run? That was probably the funniest looking run I've ever seen.

Turd Ferguson · 12-16-2003, 12:21 AM

What a wonderful season put together by the Dolphins. They have some serious issues to work out this offseason i.e. Offensive Line, Head Coach.

Robbiero67 · 12-16-2003, 01:20 AM

I just hope they avoid Dennis Green for the HC option...and look to someone who is disciplined and passionate (i.e., Tom Coughlin type). I really do believe this team is just 2-3 players away from being an extremely good football team. I think with the following they'll be looking good for next year:

-Resign Adewale Ogunaleye, I'm pretty certain he is an RFA. If he signs an offer sheet with someone else then use the 1st rd. pick they'll tender him with to select OT, QB, WR...in that order. The second 1st rounder can be used for the next option. If they do keep him, it just means they'll need to be more active in FA. Either way this situation looks like it will work out in the Fins favor. Without O-gun, they could split the other DE spot between Jay Williams and David Bowens and bring in a third guy for the rotation.

-Let RT Todd Wade move on. He has already said he wants Jon Runyan (RT Eagles) money (6 yrs 30mil, huge bonus). With his increasingly poor play he won't get anywhere near that much in Miami. Look for Arizona or Washington to overspend on him.

-If Wade leaves, then I think one of two things will happen: Either continue to develop LT Wade Smith at LT and go after someone like RT John Tait (KC) in FA; Or move LT Wade Smith to RT and look at other FA options. I'd prefer the former as I think Smith could turn out to be a solid LT with time.

-Get rid of C Tim Ruddy(to save some $$$), replace him with C Seth McKinney and also let loose LG Jaime Nails and bring in/draft/ or use backup G's Billy Yates/Taylor Whitley here instead. I have a feeling the Fins will be drafting 2-4 OLinemen next year, one or two will hopefully be guards.

-Cut Griese, restructure Fiedler and draft a young QB. I'm not sure of a whole lot of FA QB's leaving this year (Warner is not an option, and is too expensive to be released/traded...plus he is rapidly declining)...thus, even though I'd rather not see it, it is not impossible to envision Fiedler as the starter next year while a young QB prepares for the season after. Also 3rd stringer Sage Rosenfels should be looked at as a legit option.

-Restructure CB Sam Madison and a few others. Also I believe FS Brock Marion might be a UFA, and although I'd like him back, I'm not sure the cap will allow it.

-Sign or draft a possession-type receiver opposite Chris Chambers. Gadsden is about out of gas, and Derrius Thompson was essentially worthless this season.

-Last is changing the coaching staff. Obviously, Wanny and Co. are gone. They have done a pathetic job with a pretty talented team. The Fins need a hard-ass and though Coughlin looks good he's likely heading to the Giants. There are so many candidates at this moment that it is hard to speculate, but in terms of coaching style they definitely need a strict, disciplinarian with an eye for offense.

Well, maybe that's more then just 2-3 players, but I don't think it would be nearly that difficult to accomplish much of what is needed in a single offseason. In the end though if all they did was just fire Wannestadt, I'd still be extremely pleased.

Vinatieri for Prez · 12-16-2003, 01:36 AM

I think you're right on with needing to get a Coughlin type coach. I think part of the problems (esp. the December slide thing) are the players expecting they are good enough to win instead of gritting it out when its needed. Coughlin should take care of this.

As for Fiedler, he is a very good journeyman QB, but I have never been convinced (and worse in that as a Pats fan I have never been worried about him doing anything to hurt us in a game) that he is a starter for as talented a team that the Dolphins could be. It always has been a mistake to put the eggs in his basket, and now is the time to move on.

A perfect example tonight was when he missed 3-4 passes on open receivers, by overthrowing them. He simply is not accurate enough. Those 3-4 passes mean the difference between winning and losing in the NFL today. And as we saw, his close but overthrown pass to an open WR with a little more than 2 minutes left was picked off, ending the Phins playoff hopes.

Robbiero67 · 12-16-2003, 01:43 AM

I agree completely about Fiedler and am not looking optimistically at his return. I was just attempting to be realistic and am doubting the Fins will have the cap room to go after a solid FA QB even if the opportunity arises.

pjstp20 · 12-16-2003, 03:00 AM

I agree with everything you said Robbiero, except they need to sign a QB who can start immediatly. This team is too old to wait for a draft pick to develop. I think they can get Brunell if he doesnt want ridiculous money. We can let Wade go if Dixon is able to return, but Im not sure if he'll be as effective, and even if he is he's never played a full year.

Anyway, for right now we gotta focus on a coach.

BishopMVP · 12-16-2003, 03:37 AM

Try finding an offensive coordinator who realizes that you, when your OT is getting blown by over and over, you can try double teaming D-Lineman with your Tight End's. Probably cost them the Indy game and then New England just exploited it all day in the snow last week.

cthomer5000 · 12-16-2003, 05:38 AM

Brunell should be a pretty good fit. I'm sure he'd like to stay as close to home as possible, so shuffling down the coast would probably be a good fit for him.

Kodos' dream of a Wanny firing is so close I can almost taste it.

BishopMVP · 12-16-2003, 05:43 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by cthomer5000
Kodos' dream of a Wanny firing is so close I can almost taste it.

I'll be sad to watch him go

Not as much as Rich Kotite leaving the Jets, or when Gregg Williams leaves the Bills.

illinifan999 · 12-16-2003, 06:43 AM

There seemed to be a lot of anger on the field after the play was over.......

FIGHT FIGHT FIGHT FIGHT!!!!!

Alf · 12-16-2003, 07:07 AM

Brunell in Miami : makes sense to me.

Coughlin in Miami : well, didn't he & Brunell argue a lot at Jacksonville ?

scooper · 12-16-2003, 08:08 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Alf
Brunell in Miami : makes sense to me.

Coughlin in Miami : well, didn't he & Brunell argue a lot at Jacksonville ?

Alf, you may be right. If that's the case, take the coach. He's long-term. A stop-gap old QB isn't.

pjstp20 · 12-16-2003, 12:20 PM

Everthing I'm hearing says Coughlin is inevitably going to be the Giants next coach. I dont know how much that Brunell, Coughlin conflict was concocted by the media and how much was real, but I'd like to see them both in Miami. However, it looks like we're going to get Dennis Green, a players coach, which means the underachievment continues.

Robbiero67 · 12-16-2003, 01:19 PM

Wow, I really hope we do not get Dennis Green. I would definitely fear further underachievement with Green, but my main concern would have to be his desire to run the full operation.

By this I mean he would likely demand full personnel control (I think he does take a few too many risky choices...see former first round busts with their exact draft position in parenthesis: 1994 DB DeWayne Washington (18), 1995 DE Derrick Alexander (11),1996 DE Duane Clemons (16), 1999 DE Demetrius Underwood (29), not to mention tons of lower round picks that were wasted.). I know people will mention WR Randy Moss as a pick that worked out (or DT Chris Hovan), but with Green's tutelage Moss reverted to his old college selfishness and caused strife and tension throughout Green's last years at the helm.

As for Mark Brunell, if he comes at a reduced rate, I would support his acquisition. I also think that if O-Gun is signed by another team and Miami is situated with 2 1st rders then there might be an opportunity to trade up and select an elite, top-ten type QB. I'm not saying they'll even sniff Eli Manning, but maybe they'll get close enough to nab Miami of Ohio QB Ben Roethlisberger. Without that extra 1st rder, I'd rather them wait into the middle rounds and hope that Tulane QB JP Losman falls or grab someone like Cody Pickett (UW), John Navarre (UM), or Matt Schaub (UVA).

Kodos · 12-16-2003, 01:27 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by cthomer5000
Kodos' dream of a Wanny firing is so close I can almost taste it.

It is such a beautiful dream. I can almost reach out and touch it.

I don't want Green or Coughlin or any other retread. Give someone new a chance. Lovie Smith maybe. Or preferably a more offensive-minded coach.

Fritz · 12-16-2003, 01:31 PM

I like Wanny

Do you ever recall seeing the one play that gets the coach fired? Fiedler's final interception was one of those plays.

rkmsuf · 12-16-2003, 01:42 PM

I suspect it's not as much the coach as people think. Talent wise the Dolphins are very overrated.

Monday was a huge game and the supposed defensive talent down there not only let Philly score on three plays to start the game but also allowed the Eagles to amass 401 yards...

Robbiero67 · 12-16-2003, 01:44 PM

I think Wannestadt seems like a good person, and I don't dislike the guy. I just think his coaching style is overly-relaxed and conservative. Some other things that have always bothered me about Wanny, aside from the regular gameplanning, playcalling, FA additions, drafts issues, etc. was his staff decisions in terms of additions/subtractions to the coaching staff. There were two horrible decisions that not only failed to pan out, but I think helped to seal Wanny's fate long before it was in question:

1. Replacing ST coach Mike Westhoff with Kieth Armstrong. Armstrong was with Wanny when he was with the Bears I believe, but did not have anywhere close to the pedigree of Westhoff. Our ST was much better during the Westhoff era.

2.The other poor addition was OL coach Tony Wise. Wise was previously known for his poor coaching stints at Chicago and Carolina, the latter where he also helped to build and train one of the NFL's worst lines.

cthomer5000 · 12-16-2003, 01:45 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Robbiero67
I think Wannestadt seems like a good person, and I don't dislike the guy. I just think his coaching style is overly-relaxed and conservative. Some other things that have always bothered me about Wanny, aside from the regular gameplanning, playcalling, FA additions, drafts issues, etc. was his staff decisions in terms of additions/subtractions to the coaching staff. There were two horrible decisions that not only failed to pan out, but I think helped to seal Wanny's fate long before it was in question:

1. Replacing ST coach Mike Westhoff with Kieth Armstrong. Armstrong was with Wanny when he was with the Bears I believe, but did not have anywhere close to the pedigree of Westhoff. Our ST was much better during the Westhoff era.

2.The other poor addition was OL coach Tony Wise. Wise was previously known for his poor coaching stints at Chicago and Carolina, the latter where he also helped to build and train one of the NFL's worst lines.

3. That intolerable mustache.

Robbiero67 · 12-16-2003, 01:57 PM

rkmsuf, I do think the Dolphins D played mediocre last night, but I would not go so far as to list them as overrated. They tackled poorly and gave up some really big plays very early, which is always deadly. I can see where you are coming from, but having watched this defense all season I'd have to stay talent is not the issue.

They just seemed uninspired, and this happens every December, they come out flat. Worse, they came out flat for a game they knew BEFOREHAND that they had to win. While I think there are players on the team that could definitely step up more, I still put most of the blame for the last two week's defeats upon the shoulders of the coaches. They simply lack the fiery nature needed for this group of soft, yet talented players. (Just a note before anyone blames the N.E. loss on Fiedler, look to the horrible gameplanning first and see how Wanny and Co. did not at all prepare to help stop the blitzes Belichek was obviously going to be throwing at the line after seeing the success that Indy and others had.)

Lastly, Philly's D is also supposed to be pretty good (with one of the best secondaries in the NFL), yet they gave up 27 points to a average at best offense. I'd still call them talented.

rkmsuf · 12-16-2003, 02:02 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Robbiero67
rkmsuf, I do think the Dolphins D played mediocre last night, but I would not go so far as to list them as overrated. They tackled poorly and gave up some really big plays very early, which is always deadly. I can see where you are coming from, but having watched this defense all season I'd have to stay talent is not the issue.

They just seemed uninspired, and this happens every December, they come out flat. Worse, they came out flat for a game they knew BEFOREHAND that they had to win. While I think there are players on the team that could definitely step up more, I still put most of the blame for the last two week's defeats upon the shoulders of the coaches. They simply lack the fiery nature needed for this group of soft, yet talented players. (Just a note before anyone blames the N.E. loss on Fiedler, look to the horrible gameplanning first and see how Wanny and Co. did not at all prepare to help stop the blitzes Belichek was obviously going to be throwing at the line after seeing the success that Indy and others had.)

Lastly, Philly's D is also supposed to be pretty good (with one of the best secondaries in the NFL), yet they gave up 27 points to a average at best offense. I'd still call them talented.

Anyway you cut it then they are overrated. As professionals and supposedly at the top of their positions; ie Taylor, Surtain, Seau, Thomas, and Madison they need to bring it. Coming out flat, giving up yards is their fault unless you can point to a tactical flaw...the players are soft bottom line...

cthomer5000 · 12-16-2003, 02:14 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Kodos
It is such a beautiful dream. I can almost reach out and touch it.

I don't want Green or Coughlin or any other retread. Give someone new a chance. Lovie Smith maybe. Or preferably a more offensive-minded coach.

Why no re-tread? I don't see why Tom Coughlin shouldn't get another crack at coaching in the NFL. He did one hell of a job with Jacksonville before their salary cap exploded.

Kodos · 12-16-2003, 02:38 PM

I just personally don't like Coughlin. That's the only reason with him.

Robbiero67 · 12-16-2003, 02:39 PM

Not exactly...

While they did not play up to their individual talents last night, they have much of the season and have given up an average of something like 15-17 points per game before last night. Therefore, they have been rated highly and have (prior to last night) deserved this rating.

There are plenty of examples in the history of the NFL of teams or players that were infinitely talented and qualified for the high rating for which fans/media/statistics bestowed upon them, yet failed to play to the best of their abilities on a certain night. This does not translate simply to being overrated. Just because a unit (Dolphins D) has an off-night (last night) once or twice in the season, yet maintains good-great play for the other 14 games I think it'd be a stretch to call them overrated. I say this b/c I don't think anyone is nominating them for Best Defense in the NFL or Best D of All-Time...now if they were hyped with the aforementioned titles then they might be considered to be overrated. As it is, they are simply a good defense and I think their play much of the season has merited that ranking. (I also recall that before a huge winning streak, one very highly talented/rated QB for a certain team was beginning to be called overrated by many people, he had a bad four game stretch to start the year...)

As for last night, they had a tough time early and gave up some big plays, they still, however, played well enough for the W. The offense, in the end, was once again the failing unit.

Still, if you want me to point out some tactical mistakes, I will. Jim Bates, Miami's defensive coordinator, threw so many new blitzes and coverages at the Eagles (early in the game) that I think he confused the defense more then the Eagles, who continued to find soft spots over the middle or with the screen. These openings were due to the ineffectiveness of the defensive gameplanning and a lot of it looked like the players were confused on what to do. They should have been better schooled on some of the planning and taken more time to execute in practice. That is a coaching error, not simply a matter of players being overrated.

Also Seau was supposed to be McNabb's spy, a plan devised by Bates. This planning was poor as it should have been obvious to Bates that any attempt to use Seau versus McNabb in an open-field scenario would have worked greatly in the Eagles favor. Instead, I would likely have switched things up a little...perhaps putting David Bowens at Taylor's spot and having JT act as a spy on several plays. There McNabb's speed differential versus the defensive spy would have been greatly reduced.

Finally, with the little success early on his blitzes Bates then seemingly shut down the rush all together late in the game. On the drive the Eagles started at their own 3 in the 4th, there were no blitzes whatsoever and the Eagles walked down the field 55 yards. I'm not saying he should have done the cartoon blitzes he pulled early in the game (i.e., throwing 8 men at one time at the center), but he could have done some stunts or safety blitzes.

Last night, the Dolphins D did not play as well as they usually do. Yes, the team is soft, I've already admitted as much. However, that does not mean the D is overrated, they are in fact a very talented unit and I think for the most part this season they have shown it and earned their highly-touted status. I think they win many more games for this team then the offense and even further they win some in spite of the ineptitude of the offense.

cthomer5000 · 12-16-2003, 03:05 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Kodos
I just personally don't like Coughlin. That's the only reason with him.

ok.. how about Wayne Fontes?

Kodos · 12-16-2003, 04:21 PM

Can we just bring back Don Shula?

12-15-2003, 08:35 PM	#4
illinifan999 Pro Rookie Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: VA	I'm so conflicted. I want them to win because I'm a Dolphin fan, but them losing would solidify Wanny's firing. Oh screw it, GO DOLPHINS!!!!!!! __________________ Chicago Eagles 2 time ZFL champions We're "rebuilding"

12-15-2003, 08:46 PM	#8
illinifan999 Pro Rookie Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: VA	Booooo....... __________________ Chicago Eagles 2 time ZFL champions We're "rebuilding"

12-15-2003, 08:59 PM	#10
illinifan999 Pro Rookie Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: VA	Fire him! Fire him! __________________ Chicago Eagles 2 time ZFL champions We're "rebuilding"

12-15-2003, 10:08 PM	#16
Qwikshot Pro Starter Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: ...down the gravity well	Go Eagles! __________________ "General Woundwort's body was never found. It could be that he still lives his fierce life somewhere else, but from that day on, mother rabbits would tell their kittens that if they did not do as they were told, the General would get them. Such was Woundwort's monument, and perhaps it would not have displeased him." Watership Down, Richard Adams

12-15-2003, 10:11 PM	#17
Ksyrup This guy has posted so much, his fingers are about to fall off. Join Date: Nov 2000 Location: In Absentia	I wouldn't have expected 48 points from these two teams in 3 full games, let alone in about 35 minutes. Strange game, this NFL football. __________________ M's pitcher Miguel Batista: "Now, I feel like I've had everything. I've talked pitching with Sandy Koufax, had Kenny G play for me. Maybe if I could have an interview with God, then I'd be served. I'd be complete."

12-15-2003, 08:31 PM	#2
sabotai General Manager Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: The Satellite of Love	Dolphins at the 1 yard line after a great catch. (I think it was a TD, but no matter because they just got the TD)

12-15-2003, 09:00 PM	#11
MizzouRah Hall Of Famer Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: Troy, Mo	GO DOLPHINS! Todd

12-15-2003, 09:56 PM	#15
Robbiero67 Mascot Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: Lubbock, TX	Well, I can't stand Wannestadt either, but I have to say the way Mare has been kicking tonight I too would have gone for it on 4th down. Immediately before halftime he just barely pulled out a 27 yarder. Not to mention his poorly executed XP's.

12-15-2003, 10:41 PM	#19
pjstp20 High School Varsity Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: Tallahassee, FL	Dolphins have been nailed by some questionable calls. That pass interference being the latest. I hate it when refs effect the game, but thats just how it goes.

12-15-2003, 10:46 PM	#20
pjstp20 High School Varsity Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: Tallahassee, FL	Fickle ass Dolphin fans. It seems like there are more Eagles in the crowd tonight.

12-15-2003, 10:58 PM	#21
MikeVic Head Coach Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Hometown of Canada	Go Turk go!

12-15-2003, 11:02 PM	#22
pjstp20 High School Varsity Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: Tallahassee, FL	Damn he looked scary carring that ball. We'll we didnt get any points out of it, but Eagles on the 3 is a lot better than blocked punt.

12-15-2003, 11:14 PM	#23
pjstp20 High School Varsity Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: Tallahassee, FL	Well Dave it's time to say good bye.

12-16-2003, 12:14 AM	#24
tucker342 Pro Starter Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Iowa City, IA	How could Dolphin fans ever expect their team to win at this point in the year? It's December, the Dolphins ALWAYS choke

12-16-2003, 12:21 AM	#26
Turd Ferguson Mascot Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: College Station, TX	What a wonderful season put together by the Dolphins. They have some serious issues to work out this offseason i.e. Offensive Line, Head Coach.

12-16-2003, 01:20 AM	#27
Robbiero67 Mascot Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: Lubbock, TX	I just hope they avoid Dennis Green for the HC option...and look to someone who is disciplined and passionate (i.e., Tom Coughlin type). I really do believe this team is just 2-3 players away from being an extremely good football team. I think with the following they'll be looking good for next year: -Resign Adewale Ogunaleye, I'm pretty certain he is an RFA. If he signs an offer sheet with someone else then use the 1st rd. pick they'll tender him with to select OT, QB, WR...in that order. The second 1st rounder can be used for the next option. If they do keep him, it just means they'll need to be more active in FA. Either way this situation looks like it will work out in the Fins favor. Without O-gun, they could split the other DE spot between Jay Williams and David Bowens and bring in a third guy for the rotation. -Let RT Todd Wade move on. He has already said he wants Jon Runyan (RT Eagles) money (6 yrs 30mil, huge bonus). With his increasingly poor play he won't get anywhere near that much in Miami. Look for Arizona or Washington to overspend on him. -If Wade leaves, then I think one of two things will happen: Either continue to develop LT Wade Smith at LT and go after someone like RT John Tait (KC) in FA; Or move LT Wade Smith to RT and look at other FA options. I'd prefer the former as I think Smith could turn out to be a solid LT with time. -Get rid of C Tim Ruddy(to save some $$$), replace him with C Seth McKinney and also let loose LG Jaime Nails and bring in/draft/ or use backup G's Billy Yates/Taylor Whitley here instead. I have a feeling the Fins will be drafting 2-4 OLinemen next year, one or two will hopefully be guards. -Cut Griese, restructure Fiedler and draft a young QB. I'm not sure of a whole lot of FA QB's leaving this year (Warner is not an option, and is too expensive to be released/traded...plus he is rapidly declining)...thus, even though I'd rather not see it, it is not impossible to envision Fiedler as the starter next year while a young QB prepares for the season after. Also 3rd stringer Sage Rosenfels should be looked at as a legit option. -Restructure CB Sam Madison and a few others. Also I believe FS Brock Marion might be a UFA, and although I'd like him back, I'm not sure the cap will allow it. -Sign or draft a possession-type receiver opposite Chris Chambers. Gadsden is about out of gas, and Derrius Thompson was essentially worthless this season. -Last is changing the coaching staff. Obviously, Wanny and Co. are gone. They have done a pathetic job with a pretty talented team. The Fins need a hard-ass and though Coughlin looks good he's likely heading to the Giants. There are so many candidates at this moment that it is hard to speculate, but in terms of coaching style they definitely need a strict, disciplinarian with an eye for offense. Well, maybe that's more then just 2-3 players, but I don't think it would be nearly that difficult to accomplish much of what is needed in a single offseason. In the end though if all they did was just fire Wannestadt, I'd still be extremely pleased.

12-16-2003, 01:36 AM	#28
Vinatieri for Prez College Starter Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: Seattle	I think you're right on with needing to get a Coughlin type coach. I think part of the problems (esp. the December slide thing) are the players expecting they are good enough to win instead of gritting it out when its needed. Coughlin should take care of this. As for Fiedler, he is a very good journeyman QB, but I have never been convinced (and worse in that as a Pats fan I have never been worried about him doing anything to hurt us in a game) that he is a starter for as talented a team that the Dolphins could be. It always has been a mistake to put the eggs in his basket, and now is the time to move on. A perfect example tonight was when he missed 3-4 passes on open receivers, by overthrowing them. He simply is not accurate enough. Those 3-4 passes mean the difference between winning and losing in the NFL today. And as we saw, his close but overthrown pass to an open WR with a little more than 2 minutes left was picked off, ending the Phins playoff hopes.

12-16-2003, 01:43 AM	#29
Robbiero67 Mascot Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: Lubbock, TX	I agree completely about Fiedler and am not looking optimistically at his return. I was just attempting to be realistic and am doubting the Fins will have the cap room to go after a solid FA QB even if the opportunity arises.

12-16-2003, 03:00 AM	#30
pjstp20 High School Varsity Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: Tallahassee, FL	I agree with everything you said Robbiero, except they need to sign a QB who can start immediatly. This team is too old to wait for a draft pick to develop. I think they can get Brunell if he doesnt want ridiculous money. We can let Wade go if Dixon is able to return, but Im not sure if he'll be as effective, and even if he is he's never played a full year. Anyway, for right now we gotta focus on a coach.

12-16-2003, 03:37 AM	#31
BishopMVP Coordinator Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: Concord, MA/UMass	Try finding an offensive coordinator who realizes that you, when your OT is getting blown by over and over, you can try double teaming D-Lineman with your Tight End's. Probably cost them the Indy game and then New England just exploited it all day in the snow last week.

12-16-2003, 06:43 AM	#34
illinifan999 Pro Rookie Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: VA	There seemed to be a lot of anger on the field after the play was over....... FIGHT FIGHT FIGHT FIGHT!!!!! __________________ Chicago Eagles 2 time ZFL champions We're "rebuilding"

12-16-2003, 07:07 AM	#35
Alf Pro Starter Join Date: Jan 2001 Location: Rennes, France	Brunell in Miami : makes sense to me. Coughlin in Miami : well, didn't he & Brunell argue a lot at Jacksonville ? __________________ FOFL - GML - IHOF - FranceStats

12-16-2003, 12:20 PM	#37
pjstp20 High School Varsity Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: Tallahassee, FL	Everthing I'm hearing says Coughlin is inevitably going to be the Giants next coach. I dont know how much that Brunell, Coughlin conflict was concocted by the media and how much was real, but I'd like to see them both in Miami. However, it looks like we're going to get Dennis Green, a players coach, which means the underachievment continues.

12-16-2003, 01:19 PM	#38
Robbiero67 Mascot Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: Lubbock, TX	Wow, I really hope we do not get Dennis Green. I would definitely fear further underachievement with Green, but my main concern would have to be his desire to run the full operation. By this I mean he would likely demand full personnel control (I think he does take a few too many risky choices...see former first round busts with their exact draft position in parenthesis: 1994 DB DeWayne Washington (18), 1995 DE Derrick Alexander (11),1996 DE Duane Clemons (16), 1999 DE Demetrius Underwood (29), not to mention tons of lower round picks that were wasted.). I know people will mention WR Randy Moss as a pick that worked out (or DT Chris Hovan), but with Green's tutelage Moss reverted to his old college selfishness and caused strife and tension throughout Green's last years at the helm. As for Mark Brunell, if he comes at a reduced rate, I would support his acquisition. I also think that if O-Gun is signed by another team and Miami is situated with 2 1st rders then there might be an opportunity to trade up and select an elite, top-ten type QB. I'm not saying they'll even sniff Eli Manning, but maybe they'll get close enough to nab Miami of Ohio QB Ben Roethlisberger. Without that extra 1st rder, I'd rather them wait into the middle rounds and hope that Tulane QB JP Losman falls or grab someone like Cody Pickett (UW), John Navarre (UM), or Matt Schaub (UVA).

12-16-2003, 01:31 PM	#40
Fritz Lethargic Hooligan Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: hello kitty found my wallet at a big tent revival and returned it with all the cash missing	I like Wanny Do you ever recall seeing the one play that gets the coach fired? Fiedler's final interception was one of those plays. __________________ donkey, donkey, walk a little faster

12-16-2003, 01:42 PM	#41
rkmsuf Head Coach Join Date: Dec 2001	I suspect it's not as much the coach as people think. Talent wise the Dolphins are very overrated. Monday was a huge game and the supposed defensive talent down there not only let Philly score on three plays to start the game but also allowed the Eagles to amass 401 yards... __________________ "Don't you have homes?" -- Judge Smales

12-16-2003, 01:44 PM	#42
Robbiero67 Mascot Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: Lubbock, TX	I think Wannestadt seems like a good person, and I don't dislike the guy. I just think his coaching style is overly-relaxed and conservative. Some other things that have always bothered me about Wanny, aside from the regular gameplanning, playcalling, FA additions, drafts issues, etc. was his staff decisions in terms of additions/subtractions to the coaching staff. There were two horrible decisions that not only failed to pan out, but I think helped to seal Wanny's fate long before it was in question: 1. Replacing ST coach Mike Westhoff with Kieth Armstrong. Armstrong was with Wanny when he was with the Bears I believe, but did not have anywhere close to the pedigree of Westhoff. Our ST was much better during the Westhoff era. 2.The other poor addition was OL coach Tony Wise. Wise was previously known for his poor coaching stints at Chicago and Carolina, the latter where he also helped to build and train one of the NFL's worst lines.

12-16-2003, 01:57 PM	#44
Robbiero67 Mascot Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: Lubbock, TX	rkmsuf, I do think the Dolphins D played mediocre last night, but I would not go so far as to list them as overrated. They tackled poorly and gave up some really big plays very early, which is always deadly. I can see where you are coming from, but having watched this defense all season I'd have to stay talent is not the issue. They just seemed uninspired, and this happens every December, they come out flat. Worse, they came out flat for a game they knew BEFOREHAND that they had to win. While I think there are players on the team that could definitely step up more, I still put most of the blame for the last two week's defeats upon the shoulders of the coaches. They simply lack the fiery nature needed for this group of soft, yet talented players. (Just a note before anyone blames the N.E. loss on Fiedler, look to the horrible gameplanning first and see how Wanny and Co. did not at all prepare to help stop the blitzes Belichek was obviously going to be throwing at the line after seeing the success that Indy and others had.) Lastly, Philly's D is also supposed to be pretty good (with one of the best secondaries in the NFL), yet they gave up 27 points to a average at best offense. I'd still call them talented.

12-16-2003, 02:38 PM	#47
Kodos Resident Alien Join Date: Jun 2001	I just personally don't like Coughlin. That's the only reason with him.

12-16-2003, 02:39 PM	#48
Robbiero67 Mascot Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: Lubbock, TX	Not exactly... While they did not play up to their individual talents last night, they have much of the season and have given up an average of something like 15-17 points per game before last night. Therefore, they have been rated highly and have (prior to last night) deserved this rating. There are plenty of examples in the history of the NFL of teams or players that were infinitely talented and qualified for the high rating for which fans/media/statistics bestowed upon them, yet failed to play to the best of their abilities on a certain night. This does not translate simply to being overrated. Just because a unit (Dolphins D) has an off-night (last night) once or twice in the season, yet maintains good-great play for the other 14 games I think it'd be a stretch to call them overrated. I say this b/c I don't think anyone is nominating them for Best Defense in the NFL or Best D of All-Time...now if they were hyped with the aforementioned titles then they might be considered to be overrated. As it is, they are simply a good defense and I think their play much of the season has merited that ranking. (I also recall that before a huge winning streak, one very highly talented/rated QB for a certain team was beginning to be called overrated by many people, he had a bad four game stretch to start the year...) As for last night, they had a tough time early and gave up some big plays, they still, however, played well enough for the W. The offense, in the end, was once again the failing unit. Still, if you want me to point out some tactical mistakes, I will. Jim Bates, Miami's defensive coordinator, threw so many new blitzes and coverages at the Eagles (early in the game) that I think he confused the defense more then the Eagles, who continued to find soft spots over the middle or with the screen. These openings were due to the ineffectiveness of the defensive gameplanning and a lot of it looked like the players were confused on what to do. They should have been better schooled on some of the planning and taken more time to execute in practice. That is a coaching error, not simply a matter of players being overrated. Also Seau was supposed to be McNabb's spy, a plan devised by Bates. This planning was poor as it should have been obvious to Bates that any attempt to use Seau versus McNabb in an open-field scenario would have worked greatly in the Eagles favor. Instead, I would likely have switched things up a little...perhaps putting David Bowens at Taylor's spot and having JT act as a spy on several plays. There McNabb's speed differential versus the defensive spy would have been greatly reduced. Finally, with the little success early on his blitzes Bates then seemingly shut down the rush all together late in the game. On the drive the Eagles started at their own 3 in the 4th, there were no blitzes whatsoever and the Eagles walked down the field 55 yards. I'm not saying he should have done the cartoon blitzes he pulled early in the game (i.e., throwing 8 men at one time at the center), but he could have done some stunts or safety blitzes. Last night, the Dolphins D did not play as well as they usually do. Yes, the team is soft, I've already admitted as much. However, that does not mean the D is overrated, they are in fact a very talented unit and I think for the most part this season they have shown it and earned their highly-touted status. I think they win many more games for this team then the offense and even further they win some in spite of the ineptitude of the offense.

12-16-2003, 04:21 PM	#50
Kodos Resident Alien Join Date: Jun 2001	Can we just bring back Don Shula? __________________ Author of The Bill Gates Challenge, as well as other groundbreaking dynasties.

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