Brett Favre Retirement Tour: Part Deux

[RedKingGold]

Jets Officially Release Favre
Posted by Mike Florio on April 28, 2009, 10:07 p.m. EDT

Wow.

On the same day we speculated that the stage could be set for the Second Annual Brett Favre Retirement to be followed by the Second Annual Brett Favre Unretirement, the Jets threw the NFL world a curve ball by releasing Favre from the reserve-retired list.

Per Dave Hutchinson of the Newark Star-Ledger, the Jets announced the move Tuesday night. The move means that Favre is an unrestricted free agent, free to sign with any team.

Including the Minnesota Vikings.

Favre wanted to play for the Vikings last year, but the Packers refused to grant him an unconditional release. At one point, the Packers accused the Vikings of tampering with Favre, based on communications between Favre and Vikings offensive coordinator Darell Bevell and head coach Brett Favre. (The charges were found to be unsubstantiated.)

Green Bay held firm in its position, and Favre ultimately accepted a trade to the Jets. Under the terms of the deal, the Jets would have owed the Packers three first-round draft picks if they had traded Favre to the Vikings, Bears, or Lions.

The Jets reportedly declined to release Favre in February, when he retired for the second time in less than a full year.

“[Agent] Bus [Cook] and Mike [Tannenbaum] have been talking about this for a while,” Favre said in a statement. “Nothing has changed. At this time, I am retired and have no intention of returning to football.”

But unless Favre is planning to sign a one-day contract to officially retire (again) with the Packers, there’s no reason for the Jets to make the move if Favre has no intention of returning to football.

Our guess? Once Cook sufficiently and successfully pestered the Broncos to trade quarterback Jay Cutler to the Bears, Cook embarked on an effort to pester Tannenbaum to release Favre, if for no reason other than to clear out any potential impediments to the wild gray hair that might crawl up Brett’s butt in the next month or two.

The next step for Cook? He’ll start pestering Bevell and Childress to start pestering Brett to provide the final piece for one of the most talented teams in NFL history at every position except the one that counts the most.

Hey, maybe Madden will come back too?

[muns]

Well he does slobber all over Favre.........

[RainMaker]

I know some people got sick of him, but I'd love to see him in Minnesota this year. Living on the border of Minnesota and Green Bay I know how intense the rivalry is. Would be great theatre.

[Matthean]

It won't matter if Favre's arm keeps falling off. We also have no idea what he has been doing during the offseason in terms of conditioning. If he's been sitting back and downing cold ones, it won't be nearly as easy to get back into football shape at his age and he knows that.

[Philliesfan980]

I really don't see him coming back this time.

[Jas_lov]

Favre was beyond bad at the end of last year and was the main reason the Jets tanked. At this point, he's a downgrade from Tavaris Jackson and maybe even Sage Rosenfelds. The Jets didn't want him, the Packers didn't want him, nobody wants him anymore. A sad end to an overrated career.

[RainMaker]

Tavaris Jackson and Sage Rosenfels are brutal. Give Favre the best RB in the league and a real good deep threat and he is dangerous. Maybe not a Pro Bowler but much better than what they have.

[Swaggs]

I thought it would have been pretty awesome if, right after the trade up and Sanchez pick, Favre announced that he wanted to return.

[RainMaker]

As someone who hates the Packers, envisioning Favre in a Viking uniform throwing 4 TDs while Rogers throws 3 interceptions has me giddy. Throw in a one-day comeback for John Madden to gush over every pass and I think it would rank as the greatest day in my life.

[Jas_lov]

Favre had a good running game last year and he still kept chucking the ball up for grabs. He was an embarrassment towards the end of the year and he probably doesn't want to go through that anymore. If I were Ted Thompson I wouldn't even sign him to the 1 day contract. He had his chance to retire as a Packer and now he's just a disgrace.

[RainMaker]

Big difference in a good running game with Thomas Jones and the best back in football and maybe the best we've seen since Barry Sanders.

[DeToxRox]

Originally Posted by Jas_lov

Favre had a good running game last year and he still kept chucking the ball up for grabs. He was an embarrassment towards the end of the year and he probably doesn't want to go through that anymore. If I were Ted Thompson I wouldn't even sign him to the 1 day contract. He had his chance to retire as a Packer and now he's just a disgrace.

If you were Ted Thomas you'd be in Yoga class right now so you could figure out how to felate yourself.

[Jas_lov]

Actually, Favre signing a 1 day contract to retire as a Packer would save us all the drama for the 6th year in a row. Hopefully they do this soon just to get rid of him for good. This could go on all summer otherwise.

[Cringer]

Don't forget this story from a month ago, which now would be no problem with the Jets cutting him....

hxxp://www.sportingnews.com/yourturn/viewtopic.php?t=531327

Brett Favre just might make an appearance at an NFL training camp this summer — as a guest of new Cleveland Browns coach Eric Mangini.

Mangini told the New York Daily News that he and Favre have been text messaging since they last saw each other December 29, the day the Jets fired Mangini and the day after Favre played his final NFL game.

The two are discussing Favre joining Mangini at Browns camp this summer. Favre couldn't run the practice team because he is still under contract with the Jets, but Mangini didn't rule out Favre being a guest instructor for quarterbacks Brady Quinn and Derek Anderson.

"I don't think it would be anything formal," Mangini told the newspaper. "It's not like we are hiring him to run the scout team. I don't think he would be interested in that. He would be more like a visitor. An open invite."

The relationship between Mangini and Favre was analyzed extensively when the Jets faded down the stretch of the 2008 season and were eliminated from the playoffs. Mangini says he had no problem with Favre, who has never publicly criticized his former coach.

"We had a legitimately good relationship," Mangini said. "He's a good guy. I like Brett a lot. That was a tough situation for him to come into and I thought he handled it incredibly well."

[Arles]

I am a huge Favre fan (as well as a Packer fan) and rooted for him on the Jets last season, but this is too much. He was a shell of himself in the final 3-4 games and had obvious issues with his elbow. Last I checked, he didn't have surgery (recommended by the Jets if he came back) and the odds his arm holds up all season are slim to none.

I hope he signs a 1-day and retires a Packer. But, if he does try a comeback, I will still pull for him (even as a Viking - except when plays GB ) - but I don't think it ends well. His problem is he always has the "brain fart" game and in GB everyone would cover for that (the OL, RB, WR drops, ...). But, in NY and whatever team he goes to now, he will be expected to win every game and once he blows one - there won't be that "protect Favre" population of the fan base. For his sake, I hope this retirement is for good.

[EagleFan]

I think Madden only retired because of Fare retiring. They'll come back as a package deal as Madden signs on to broadcast every game in which Favre plays next season (even if he has to do radio for that team).

[bbor]

Originally Posted by Jas_lov

A sad end to an overrated career.

you're kidding,right?

[Cringer]

Originally Posted by bbor

you're kidding,right?

Jas lives on one giant pendulum, and right now it is in the anti-Favre swing it seems.

[Arles]

Yeah, I don't know how any Packer fan could hold long-term ill will towards Favre. He was an amazing player to watch and I hope he ends up working for the Packers after he retires (hopefully before this season).

[SteveMax58]

Originally Posted by Arles

Yeah, I don't know how any Packer fan could hold long-term ill will towards Favre. He was an amazing player to watch and I hope he ends up working for the Packers after he retires (hopefully before this season).

Perhaps this will give him a little more time for this?

[Butter]

Originally Posted by RedKingGold

He’ll start pestering Bevell and Childress to start pestering Brett to provide the final piece for one of the most talented teams in NFL history at every position except the one that counts the most.

So, we're just letting this part slide then?

[Cringer]

Originally Posted by Butter_of_69

So, we're just letting this part slide then?

As a Packer fan it's pretty hard to take a comment like that about the Vikings or Bears serious, so yes I let it slide. Now, if it came from a Lions fan then that is a different story.

[Crim]

Originally Posted by Cringer

Jas lives on one giant pendulum, and right now it is in the anti-Favre swing it seems.

awesome

[Crim]

Originally Posted by Butter_of_69

So, we're just letting this part slide then?

There are times when it is appropriate to take RKG seriously, and there are times when one just chuckles quietly to oneself and turns the page.

[ColtCrazy]

Favre fell apart at the end because of an injury that he shouldn't have played through. As long as he is healthy, and stayed in shape, he'd be an upgrade for the Vikings...but he won't bring them a Super Bowl.

[Arles]

Everyone needs to remember that an MRI as the end of the season showed a tear in his biceps tendon. He elected not to have the arthroscopic surgery and retired.

If he comes back, he'd going to need that surgery, the recovery time and some time to assimilate into the new offense and personnel. Given he's 39, going on 40, I'm not sure any team would want to take that risk even if Brett was willing.

[Ronnie Dobbs2]

ProFootballTalk.com - Plane Flies From Minneapolis To Hattiesburg, And Back Again

[Draft Dodger]

Originally Posted by Arles

Everyone needs to remember that an MRI as the end of the season showed a tear in his biceps tendon. He elected not to have the arthroscopic surgery and retired.

If he comes back, he'd going to need that surgery, the recovery time and some time to assimilate into the new offense and personnel. Given he's 39, going on 40, I'm not sure any team would want to take that risk even if Brett was willing.

maybe he'll come back as a lefty

[Fighter of Foo]

Originally Posted by bbor

you're kidding,right?

He is quite possibly the most overrated athlete of the last 10 years. He's been a whiny little bitch every time he doesn't get his way and has nearly as many turnovers as touchdowns in his career (1st all time in INTs, 2nd in Fumbles).

If you want to talk about playoffs/super bowls, he has just as many rings as Trent Dilfer.

He had three very good years (95-97), and ever since has been a glorified, more durable Sage Rosenfels.

I'll miss him for gambling purposes and that's about it.

[DaddyTorgo]

Originally Posted by Fighter of Foo

He is quite possibly the most overrated athlete of the last 10 years. He's been a whiny little bitch every time he doesn't get his way and has nearly as many turnovers as touchdowns in his career (1st all time in INTs, 2nd in Fumbles).

If you want to talk about playoffs/super bowls, he has just as many rings as Trent Dilfer.

He had three very good years (95-97), and ever since has been a glorified, more durable Sage Rosenfels.

I'll miss him for gambling purposes and that's about it.

+1

[larrymcg421]

Honestly, what would people say about Favre if he didn't beat a 10-6 Patriots team to win his one Superbowl ring?

[flere-imsaho]

As someone who lives in Chicago, I'd love to see Favre in Minnesota. Front row seats to the drama in the NFC North and the additional benefit of watching Urlacher & Briggs drive him into the turf several times a season.

[Kodos]

Hmmm. What was Favre's career record against the Bears again? 22-10, 12-3 at Soldier Field. He owns you guys.

[Fighter of Foo]

Originally Posted by Kodos

Hmmm. What was The Packers career record against the Bears again while Favre was playing? 22-10, 12-3 at Soldier Field. They owned you guys.

Fixed that for you. It's a team game.

[Arles]

Originally Posted by Fighter of Foo

He is quite possibly the most overrated athlete of the last 10 years. He's been a whiny little bitch every time he doesn't get his way and has nearly as many turnovers as touchdowns in his career (1st all time in INTs, 2nd in Fumbles).

It's once again time to break out the numbers for context. I've posted this a few times, but here goes again:

Because of the large difference in pass attempts for many QBs, the INT record is a bit misleading (and you can also argue the TD one to a lesser degree). For instance, Blanda now has fewer INTs than Brett, but he threw a pick on 6.9% of his total pass attempts. On the flip side, Brett has thrown one on just every 3.3% of his passes.

So, a better measure is TD vs INT %. I checked the TD and INT % per attempt for some of the best passers of all time (with atleast 8 full seasons as a starter). I ranked them by difference between the two:

Young: 5.5%, 2.6%: +2.9
Manning: 5.6%, 2.8%: +2.8
Montana 5.1%, 2.6%: +2.5
Marino 5.0%, 3.1%: +1.9
Favre 5.0%, 3.3%: +1.7
Dawson 6.3%, 4.9%: +1.4
Jergensen: 5.9%, 4.5%: +1.4
Tarkington 5.3%, 4.1%: +1.2
Kelly 4.9%, 3.7%: +1.2
Elway 4.1%, 3.1%: +1.0
Moon 4.3%, 3.4%: +0.9
Unitas 5.6%, 4.9%: +0.7
Bledsoe 3.7%, 3.1%: +0.6
Aikman 3.5%, 3.0%: +0.5
Fouts: 4.5%, 4.3%: +0.2
Bradshaw 5.4%, 5.4%: 0

So, when it comes to "risk/reward" of some of the top passers of all time, Favre ranks comfortably fifth. Throw in his MVPs and Super Bowl win (plus yards/TD numbers) and you'd have to put him fairly high on the overall list. For Young, too, you need to understand he had about half the full seasons as a starter that Brett had (and barely made the 8 season cutoff). This doesn't count Brady, who will certainly pass him once he finishes his 8th season.

[Fighter of Foo]

Originally Posted by Arles

So, when it comes to "risk/reward" of some of the top passers of all time, Favre ranks comfortably fifth.

YOU PICKED THE LIST!!!!! In other words, given the list of QBs that you picked, and using these two stats, Favre ranks fifth. Well golly gee thanks. Run it for ALL QBs and let me know how it turns out.

You're also using only INTs and not including Fumbles.

Lastly, I'm not saying Favre wasn't good, just overrated.

EDIT: Favre career: 464 TDs, 310 INTs, 117 Fumbles Lost. I don't have playoff stats handy.

[Big Fo]

I'd love to see Favre playing against the Packers. If he can be average like he was last year that'd be an improvement on what Minnesota has.

[DaddyTorgo]

Originally Posted by Arles

It's once again time to break out the numbers for context. I've posted this a few times, but here goes again:

Because of the large difference in pass attempts for many QBs, the INT record is a bit misleading (and you can also argue the TD one to a lesser degree). For instance, Blanda now has fewer INTs than Brett, but he threw a pick on 6.9% of his total pass attempts. On the flip side, Brett has thrown one on just every 3.3% of his passes.

So, a better measure is TD vs INT %. I checked the TD and INT % per attempt for some of the best passers of all time (with atleast 8 full seasons as a starter). I ranked them by difference between the two:

Young: 5.5%, 2.6%: +2.9
Manning: 5.6%, 2.8%: +2.8
Montana 5.1%, 2.6%: +2.5
Marino 5.0%, 3.1%: +1.9
Favre 5.0%, 3.3%: +1.7
Dawson 6.3%, 4.9%: +1.4
Jergensen: 5.9%, 4.5%: +1.4
Tarkington 5.3%, 4.1%: +1.2
Kelly 4.9%, 3.7%: +1.2
Elway 4.1%, 3.1%: +1.0
Moon 4.3%, 3.4%: +0.9
Unitas 5.6%, 4.9%: +0.7
Bledsoe 3.7%, 3.1%: +0.6
Aikman 3.5%, 3.0%: +0.5
Fouts: 4.5%, 4.3%: +0.2
Bradshaw 5.4%, 5.4%: 0

So, when it comes to "risk/reward" of some of the top passers of all time, Favre ranks comfortably fifth. Throw in his MVPs and Super Bowl win (plus yards/TD numbers) and you'd have to put him fairly high on the overall list. For Young, too, you need to understand he had about half the full seasons as a starter that Brett had (and barely made the 8 season cutoff). This doesn't count Brady, who will certainly pass him once he finishes his 8th season.

I was about to kick your ass for not picking Brady, until I read down to the bottom.

[DaddyTorgo]

I'll bite - dating back to 1995. Given this is just one statistic, and there are notable examples of people you wouldn't expect looking very good with this metric, but it is what it is.

Football Outsiders QB Rankings (DYAR - Defense-adjusted Yards Above Replacement)

1995: 3rd
1996: 2nd
1997: 4th
1998: 10th
1999: 9th
2000: 9th
2001: 5th
2002: 14th
2003: 10th
2004: 5th
2005:10th
2006: 14th
2007: 3rd
2008: 20th

[Surtt]

Originally Posted by Ronnie Dobbs2

ProFootballTalk.com - Plane Flies From Minneapolis To Hattiesburg, And Back Again

Update...


hxxp://www.todaystmj4.com/bloggers/lanceallan/44034022.html

Well, after tracking the flight and doing some intel (I feel like Jack Bauer on 24 sometimes when I'm doing "investigative" work like this), it turns out that only Target executives were on the flight. No Brett. No Bus. No story.

Maybe he is planning on playing for the Target flag football team.

[BrianD]

Originally Posted by Fighter of Foo

YOU PICKED THE LIST!!!!! In other words, given the list of QBs that you picked, and using these two stats, Favre ranks fifth. Well golly gee thanks. Run it for ALL QBs and let me know how it turns out.

You're also using only INTs and not including Fumbles.

Lastly, I'm not saying Favre wasn't good, just overrated.

EDIT: Favre career: 464 TDs, 310 INTs, 117 Fumbles Lost. I don't have playoff stats handy.

As long as you don't mind leaving out guys with less than 1 full season starting, I have so far found Tom Brady at +3.0 (top of the list so far), Drew Brees at +1.9 (above Favre) and Mark Brunell at +1.7 (tied with Favre). I'll go farther down the list to see who else is in range.

Edit:
Philip Rivers +3.0
Tony Romo +2.7
Aaron Rodgers (just for fun) +2.5
Donovan McNabb +2.4
Jeff Garcia +1.9
Matt Cassel +1.8
Rich Gannon +1.8
Carson Palmer +1.8
Randall Cunningham +1.7
Ben Roethlisberger +1.7

And that is the whole list. Looking at the above list, how many fit into Arles original 8-season requirement? Rich Gannon might be the only one. In all QBs all-time, Favre ranks tied for 15th. I'll let others argue whether people like Aaron Rodgers, Tony Romo, Philip Rivers, Carson Palmer, Matt Cassel and others have played enough to be considered for the list.

[DaddyTorgo]

mmmm tom brady - top of the list *swoons*

[larrymcg421]

Of course, you have to figure in yearly comparisons when talking about passing stats. For example, over Marino's career, the average was 3.7% INT's, so he was 0.6% below that mark, whereas during Favre's career it was 3.2%, so he was actually over the league average by 0.1%

I didn't do all of Blanda's years, but for an example, his last full year, he threw 6.4% INT's, but the league average was 7.2%.

[Crim]

This is beginning to smell like a baseball stats argument...

[bulletsponge]

i got a few things to say..

Brett Favre is vastly overrated, but not by the fans, by the media. theyve sucked on his dong ever since he won the superbowl which brings me to another thing...

if it wasnt for Howard having the best special teams day in superbowl history, Favre would have 0 rings

and TD passes are the most overrated stat in football

[Kodos]

Yeah, it's not like you need to score points to win games.

[BrianD]

Originally Posted by bulletsponge

i got a few things to say..

Brett Favre is vastly overrated, but not by the fans, by the media. theyve sucked on his dong ever since he won the superbowl which brings me to another thing...

if it wasnt for Howard having the best special teams day in superbowl history, Favre would have 0 rings

and TD passes are the most overrated stat in football

The TD passes were brought up to give context to the INT numbers.

[DaddyTorgo]

Originally Posted by bulletsponge

i got a few things to say..

Brett Favre is vastly overrated, but not by the fans, by the media. theyve sucked on his dong ever since he won the superbowl which brings me to another thing...

if it wasnt for Howard having the best special teams day in superbowl history, Favre would have 0 rings

true and true

[larrymcg421]

Originally Posted by bulletsponge

i got a few things to say..

Brett Favre is vastly overrated, but not by the fans, by the media. theyve sucked on his dong ever since he won the superbowl which brings me to another thing...

if it wasnt for Howard having the best special teams day in superbowl history, Favre would have 0 rings

and TD passes are the most overrated stat in football

Actually the most overrated stat is the other one you brought up (Superbowl rings).

I would agree that TD passes by themselves don't make for a great measure, but it's good when comparing to INT's. For example, a QB might lose alot of TD's because of a strong running game, but then he should also have fewer INT's because he's facing easier defenses.

But you absolutely must consider TD/INT in context of the time the person played. When Marino was a rookie in 1983, the league average INT% was 4.4. In 2008, the league average was only 2.8%.

[molson]

Originally Posted by Kodos

Yeah, it's not like you need to score points to win games.

Putting so much weight on TD passes infers that if you score another way, like running the ball into the end zone, the QB did something wrong.

Team A may like to run in the red zone, Team B might like to pass. Team B's QB is going to have more passing TDs. That dosn't make him better.

Passing TDs are evidence of value, like any other stat, but as far as stats go, it's pretty flawed.