Pats tell Deion Branch to s*ck it.

[rkmsuf]

No link but they just said on the radio via a breaking press release that the Pats have given Deion Branch permission to seek a trade until Sept 1 and go find a new deal elsewhere.

[Deattribution]

I personally think it's a shitty way to deal with their players, the guy preformed so why not pony up some money to reward him?

Same with Vinatieri.

Why did Brady take less money again? I thought it was to help keep the team intact.

[rkmsuf]

Originally Posted by Deattribution

I personally think it's a shitty way to deal with their players, the guy preformed so why not pony up some money to reward him?

Same with Vinatieri.

Why did Brady take less money again? I thought it was to help keep the team intact.

Branch wants way to much for his skill set and value to the team. He thinks he's as good as Reggie Wayne. It's not even close.

I like it. Take care, brush your hair dude.

[sovereignstar]

Offering the former Super Bowl MVP less than what David Givens received in March just ain't right.

[rkmsuf]

Originally Posted by sovereignstar

Offering the former Super Bowl MVP less than what David Givens received in March just ain't right.

Using "Superbowl MVP" as leverage is for suckers. Big effing deal.

Tennessee overpaided for Givens. Doesn't mean NE should be sheep.

Guy was offered a good deal and turned his nose up at it. Fuck him.

[sovereignstar]

Originally Posted by rkmsuf

Using "Superbowl MVP" as leverage is for suckers. Big effing deal.

Are you kidding me?

[molson]

Originally Posted by sovereignstar

Are you kidding me?

Larry Brown

[Ksyrup]

Originally Posted by sovereignstar

Are you kidding me?

"Yeah, that's bullshit" - Larry Brown and Desmond Howard, in unison

[BrianD]

Originally Posted by sovereignstar

Are you kidding me?

Seems reasonable to me.

[sovereignstar]

The whole fucking goal is to win the Super Bowl and the guy has been nothing but money in two of them. Why could you not use postseason play as leverage in a contract? Because of the 162-game regular season? Oh wait..

[rkmsuf]

Originally Posted by sovereignstar

Are you kidding me?

no. like I give a crap who a bunch of media people and fans elected as their binky in the game. yes he had a great game but the title is meaningless.

see Larry Brown, Dexter Jackson and Desmond Howard.

Either you are great and deserve the money or not. It's independant of any mvp label.

[molson]

Originally Posted by sovereignstar

The whole fucking goal is to win the Super Bowl and the guy has been nothing but money in two of them. Why could you not use postseason play as leverage in a contract? Because of the 162-game regular season? Oh wait..

Arguing postseason play is fine, and relevant. But why let the voting of writers (and fans?) effect your negotiations?

[sovereignstar]

Originally Posted by BrianD

Seems reasonable to me.

Peachy, BrianD.

[BrianD]

Originally Posted by sovereignstar

Peachy, BrianD.

Pardon?

[sovereignstar]

Originally Posted by BrianD

Pardon?

PEACHY

[rkmsuf]

never mind that the guy has never scored more than 5 tds in a season or broken 1,000 yards.

guy had two great superbowls...can't ever take it away from him but he thinks he's commanding 6 years, 40 million? ya right.

[sovereignstar]

Originally Posted by rkmsuf

never mind that the guy has never scored more than 5 tds in a season or broken 1,000 yards.

guy had two great superbowls...can't ever take it away from him but he thinks he's commanding 6 years, 40 million? ya right.

Point me to the quotes where he says he deserves exactly what Reggie Wayne got, please.

[rkmsuf]

Originally Posted by sovereignstar

Point me to the quotes where he says he deserves exactly what Reggie Wayne got, please.

Branch wanted a deal that a player would receive in unrestricted free agency, which is often more because they have to compete with other teams for the player, therefore increasing the amount of money they are willing to invest, and for lower-class teams especially. An example of a deal Branch points to is the six year, $40 million deal that Reggie Wayne got.

that's wiki but there are numerous articles at the boston globe and herald detailing the negotiations.

branch is under contract anyway and he's not seymour or brady.


Pats offered him 4 years, guranteed 12 million up front. Guy has gone bonkers.

[kcchief19]

Given New England's success, I'll give them the benefit of the doubt. I don't disagree that giving a guy who has one or two great Super Bowls isn't necessarily good team managment if those were exceptions.

I think New England is finally starting to wear under the cap though. By and large, New England is a team that has thrived thanks to role players and a consistent system. If you let the role players go and bring too many new parts into the system, the system will break. That's just the way the NFL is. I think the cohesion effect Jim measures in FOF is a brilliant reflection of how cohesion really does work in the NFL.

If Branch wants too much money, I can see New England cutting ties. But at some point, the impact of losing too many guys like Brunch, Givens and Vinaterri will bite them in the ass. I think there'll be a lot of people piling on if this team goes out and is "teh suck" this year.

[sovereignstar]

Originally Posted by rkmsuf

Branch wanted a deal that a player would receive in unrestricted free agency, which is often more because they have to compete with other teams for the player, therefore increasing the amount of money they are willing to invest, and for lower-class teams especially. An example of a deal Branch points to is the six year, $40 million deal that Reggie Wayne got.

that's wiki but there are numerous articles at the boston globe and herald detailing the negotiations.

branch is under contract anyway and he's not seymour or brady.


Pats offered him 4 years, guranteed 12 million up front. Guy has gone bonkers.

You said he is commanding 6 over 40, not pointing out someone else's contract. 12 million up front? How do you figure?

[rkmsuf]

Originally Posted by sovereignstar

You said he is commanding 6 over 40, not pointing out someone else's contract. 12 million up front? How do you figure?

sigh.

he thinks he should get 6 yrs 40

pats offered 4 years with 12 up front/guranteed.

not sure how else to say it.

it's likely branch is a pat this year anyway. i've never seen a holdout with less leverage.

[FrogMan]

don't know how he can sack it, he doesn't even play on defense

FM

[Pumpy Tudors]

Originally Posted by FrogMan

don't know how he can sack it, he doesn't even play on defense

[DaddyTorgo]

rock on! i heard this coming home...deion and his agent have royally fucked up this whole negotiation process. he's not worth the $$ he's asking for either...let him walk

[st.cronin]

I feel ill.

[DaddyTorgo]

Originally Posted by st.cronin

I feel ill.

why cronin? as stated below...he's asking way too much for someone with his skillset.

if the pats were going to give 6/40 to anyone i would have rather they gave it to givens, a big possession WR rather than a tiny lil "troy brown clone" of a wr who as someone said below has never had a 1000 yd season or scored more than 5td's. bottom line is the pats like to spread the ball around, having a "traditional nfl style #1 WR" isn't as important. And let's not forget Watson/Graham, Chad Jackson, and of course the Dillon/Maroney/Faulk monster. This team has enough offensive weapons. Not that they wouldn't be better with Branch, but he doesn't have that as leverage to hold them hostage.

[Draft Dodger]

The Pats have nothing to worry about, because Tom Brady's favorite reciever is the open receiver. Or so Sterling Sharpe mentioned about 24,003 times in the first half of the Arizona game.

[TroyF]

Originally Posted by rkmsuf

it's likely branch is a pat this year anyway. i've never seen a holdout with less leverage.

Two words. . . Ashley Lelie. You want to talk about a lack of leverage? Lets talk about how Ashley Lelie will have to pay over 400k for the right to play football this year.

As for Branch, he's one of those underrated players who everyone looks at traditional stats and thinks is average. He's far from it. He catches nearly everything that's thrown his way. He's been HUGE in 2 Super Bowls, not one.

He never fumbles the football. And he's going to become smarter and he's going to catch more passes. (he's on nearly the identical career path to Henry Ellard) When looking at non traditional type statistics (successful play percentage, rank against #1 CB's, DVOA and DPAR), he had a far better season than Wayne did last year.

The Patriots will regret not paying him the money if he does indeed leave.

[rkmsuf]

Originally Posted by Draft Dodger

The Pats have nothing to worry about, because Tom Brady's favorite reciever is the open receiver. Or so Sterling Sharpe mentioned about 24,003 times in the first half of the Arizona game.

Cassel was DECISIVE as well.

That could have been the worst football color man performance ever broadcast on American television.

It got to the point I was physically cringing.

[Drake]

Tom Brady can win 12 games by himself. WR's are just a bonus.

[rowech]

Welcome to the salary cap era in the NFL. You can't have too much loyalty to one player or you bankrupt your team.

[rkmsuf]

Originally Posted by TroyF

Two words. . . Ashley Lelie. You want to talk about a lack of leverage? Lets talk about how Ashley Lelie will have to pay over 400k for the right to play football this year.

As for Branch, he's one of those underrated players who everyone looks at traditional stats and thinks is average. He's far from it. He catches nearly everything that's thrown his way. He's been HUGE in 2 Super Bowls, not one.

He never fumbles the football. And he's going to become smarter and he's going to catch more passes. (he's on nearly the identical career path to Henry Ellard) When looking at non traditional type statistics (successful play percentage, rank against #1 CB's, DVOA and DPAR), he had a far better season than Wayne did last year.

The Patriots will regret not paying him the money if he does indeed leave.

I actually have some weird respect for Lelie. He paid up to get out.

Pats offered Branch 6.5 a year to extend his contract 3 years and a host of it guranteed. I'll never say he isn't a good player but I would never say they should pony up any more or can't produce great offense without him.

I think Brady is a huge factor for him...moreso than his inherent tools. Pats also have done a massively great job gameplanning and attacking in specific ways to create favorable space and matchups.

I would bet Givens disappoints this season and we've seen what Patten can do yet both were big contributors in NE and made big plays.

[Pumpy Tudors]

Originally Posted by Drake

Tom Brady can win 12 games by himself. WR's are just a bonus.

Oh, great, now st.cronin has changed his name, too.

[DaddyTorgo]

Originally Posted by Drake

Tom Brady can win 12 games by himself. WR's are just a bonus.

i'll see your 12 and raise you 1

[Draft Dodger]

Originally Posted by rkmsuf

Cassel was DECISIVE as well.

That could have been the worst football color man performance ever broadcast on American television.

It got to the point I was physically cringing.

when you get to the point that my wife is repeating it, and she's barely paying attention, you've got an issue.

[stevew]

If you suck it, it's a win win.

[rkmsuf]

Originally Posted by Draft Dodger

when you get to the point that my wife is repeating it, and she's barely paying attention, you've got an issue.

LOL, same exact thing here...I swear. She looked up and said something like "that guy is really annoying...he keeps saying the same thing over and over again."

[Galaxy]

His stats:
Receiving |
+----------+-----+--------------------------+-------------------------+
| Year TM | G | Att Yards Y/A TD | Rec Yards Y/R TD |
+----------+-----+--------------------------+-------------------------+
| 2002 nwe | 13 | 2 0 0.0 0 | 43 489 11.4 2 |
| 2003 nwe | 15 | 1 11 11.0 0 | 57 803 14.1 3 |
| 2004 nwe | 9 | 0 0 0.0 0 | 35 454 13.0 4 |
| 2005 nwe | 16 | 0 0 0.0 0 | 78 998 12.8 5 |
+----------+-----+--------------------------+-------------------------+
| TOTAL | 53 | 3 11 3.7 0 | 213 2744 12.9 14 |

[Pumpy Tudors]

Originally Posted by Draft Dodger

when you get to the point that my wife is repeating it, and she's barely paying attention, you've got an issue.

[Draft Dodger]

Originally Posted by DaddyTorgo

i'll see your 12 and raise you 1

you forget - Pats are playing the NFC North this year. Let's make it 14.

(no, not seriously, but they do have what looks to be a pretty easy schedule)

[path12]

Originally Posted by TroyF

As for Branch, he's one of those underrated players who everyone looks at traditional stats and thinks is average. He's far from it. He catches nearly everything that's thrown his way. He's been HUGE in 2 Super Bowls, not one.

He never fumbles the football. And he's going to become smarter and he's going to catch more passes. (he's on nearly the identical career path to Henry Ellard) When looking at non traditional type statistics (successful play percentage, rank against #1 CB's, DVOA and DPAR), he had a far better season than Wayne did last year.

The Patriots will regret not paying him the money if he does indeed leave.

I agree with this. I think if NE wants to rely on Chad Jackson and the tight ends for their receiving this year they might be surprised......I think they're not as deep at the position as in the past and really should focus on Branch to get more passes.

Now, whether or not he's worth the money he's asking is another question entirely. But I think they will end up sorry if he goes elsewhere (unlike Givens).

[TroyF]

Originally Posted by rkmsuf

I actually have some weird respect for Lelie. He paid up to get out.

Pats offered Branch 6.5 a year to extend his contract 3 years and a host of it guranteed. I'll never say he isn't a good player but I would never say they should pony up any more or can't produce great offense without him.

I think Brady is a huge factor for him...moreso than his inherent tools. Pats also have done a massively great job gameplanning and attacking in specific ways to create favorable space and matchups.

I would bet Givens disappoints this season and we've seen what Patten can do yet both were big contributors in NE and made big plays.

I think Brady is huge to NE, but not so much to his #1 WR's. Because of his ability to see the field and NE's refusal to put in game plans that feature any specific WR, the #1 WR's don't get the ball as much as they could and they certainly don't get moved around for mismatches as a rule. I think you've seen the Pats actually design their passing game around Branch during those two Super Bowls and we've seen the results.

Last year Branch caught 78 passes, the next closes Patriot was at 59. After that it dropped to 39. The reason many of those underneath threats are open to catch as many balls as they have is because of Branch and his ability as a WR.

I think he'd catch 100 balls in an offense designed to his strengths. Keep in mind, I'm not blaming NE for doing it this way. They are winning, you can't argue with what they've done. But because they've played that way I think they and a lot of other people are going to use stats as a way to show how meaningless Branch is to them. . . and I think anyone thinking like that is making a monumental mistake.

I think he's much better and much more valuable to that offense than most people seem to think. It looks like he won't play at least at the start of the year. We are going to get a chance to see if I'm right.

[rkmsuf]

the knock I have on him is I don't think he possess the physical tools to be a classic #1 guy which is why NE is perfect for him. he's smallish and is not a burner at all. and injury prone so far.

I see it the opposite way. If he was consistently featured he would be shut down. His success is a function of their style, not the reverse. Teams made a huge mistakes in the Superbowls and NE crossed them up by totally changing philosophy. Yes he came through but he was not the focal point of the defense. A classic, big money #1 is and it doesn't matter.

He'll be here at some point though and I would never submit the Pats won't miss him. I just wouldn't break the bank for him.

[Vinatieri for Prez]

Here's the deal. Branch is a good receiver. He is not a top receiver nor a prototypical #1. The key is Brady makes everyone look good. Even Bam Childress for god's sake. Branch is not Reggie Wayne (who would be a number 1 on other teams), not even close. Branch won SB MVP because Brady threw him the ball. Don't get me wrong, I would like him to stick around because is he good, contributes greatly, and can catch the ball, but not at an astronomical price, which is what he is asking for. And yes, his agent has brought up Wayne's contract many times as a comparable.

The simple fact is Brady has a lot of weapons now, and Branch has no leverage. Frankly, I think the trade negotiation part is simply a ploy for Branch to go talk to other teams and find out what he is NOT worth. I actually think this will help to renegotiate him when he finds out he can't get the money he is looking for.

I'd rather see the money spent on resigning Graham, Samuel and Koppen, who are all heading into FA next year.

I have no problem with the Pats' strategy of not overpaying their players (which is a better way to characterize it). I have come full circle and believe not resigning Vinatieri, McGinest, or Givens at those prices.

[Vinatieri for Prez]

Originally Posted by rkmsuf

the knock I have on him is I don't think he possess the physical tools to be a classic #1 guy which is why NE is perfect for him. he's smallish and is not a burner at all. and injury prone so far.

I see it the opposite way. If he was consistently featured he would be shut down. His success is a function of their style, not the reverse. Teams made a huge mistakes in the Superbowls and NE crossed them up by totally changing philosophy. Yes he came through but he was not the focal point of the defense. A classic, big money #1 is and it doesn't matter.

He'll be here at some point though and I would never submit the Pats won't miss him. I just wouldn't break the bank for him.

I agree. I believe the system (and QB) helps him, not hurts him. Even he has admitted that he has trouble with double teams.

[Vinatieri for Prez]

Originally Posted by TroyF

I think he'd catch 100 balls in an offense designed to his strengths.

I disagree. Catching balls from a mid level QB with him as the consistent go to guy is not his strength. It's Brady throwing to 8 different guys that plays to his strength.

[Solecismic]

Don't tell the other guys in my fantasy league, but Givens received far too much money and the Titans are already regretting it.

The system and the quarterback make the receiver. What's strange is that to succeed as a receiver, having a massive ego is often a good thing, as long as they put in the work. Quarterbacks love a guy who is willing to take on a lot of responsibility.

Branch is far better than Givens, but he wants too much money and he's taking on the wrong team. I'm sure he'll get a payday next year, but he's making a huge mistake - one that will affect only his own legacy.

Lelie is an interesting head case, and apparently now the role model for Branch. The Broncos told him to stuff it, and his ego was so bruised that he invented a situation where he pretty much destroyed any remaining leverage he had. It's sad when your agent has to cough up a million just to buy you out of a contract.

[Ksyrup]

Clearly, Branch's biggest mistake was not hiring Dr. Drew Rosenpenis.

[Warhammer]

Originally Posted by TroyF

He never fumbles the football. And he's going to become smarter and he's going to catch more passes. (he's on nearly the identical career path to Henry Ellard) When looking at non traditional type statistics (successful play percentage, rank against #1 CB's, DVOA and DPAR), he had a far better season than Wayne did last year.

Most underrated WR of the last 20 years, Henry Ellard.

[st.cronin]

TroyF nailed it. I have no idea what's going on with Belichick these days.