New Orleans Modern Day version of "Sodom and Gomorrah"

[hukarez]

I don't mean to put out yet another New Orleans related thread, but I came across this on the Daily Foo:

http://www.kltv.com/Global/story.asp...2&nav=1TjDeGmD
A confrontation this morning between an East Texas church and an evacuee from New Orleans. It centers around a sign out front of Woodland Hills Baptist Church on Old Jacksonville Road in Tyler, about a mile inside the loop. Some say the message is offensive.

"I drove by that sign and was just horrified when I saw that," says Kelly Jackman who now lives in Tyler but used to live in New Orleans.

That sign at Woodland Hills Baptist Church reads ,"The big easy is the modern day Sodom and Gomorrah."

Kelly along with her sister Robin Lafont, an evacuee from New Orleans, showed up this morning at the church to talk to the man who put it up, Pastor Wiley Bennett.

During a heated discussion, Robin asked, "What's the point of the sign out there?" Pastor Bennett replied, "The point of the sign is New Orleans, Las Vegas, San Francisco, and New York City are some of the most wicked cities in America."

Robin, who still has family members unaccounted for in New Orleans, is offended by the sign. "I'm telling you. This hurts. Why would you want to put more hurt, more salt in my wounds and why would you want to do this to me?"

Kelly adds, "And to go by and see this church saying that God did this to destroy these people and basically they're celebrating that by putting that sign up there saying look at what God has done. He has destroyed the city of New Orleans because it is evil."

Pastor Bennett says, "Anybody that's ever visited New Orleans, the very name its self - Big Easy - denotes that it's easy to find sin there."

Pastor Bennett says the sign, is a sign of the times. "The purpose of the sign is to wake American up to the fact that America is going away from God. New York City's 9/11 was a call of judgment and New Orlean's horrible incident was judgment on a wicked city."

Pastor Bennett was quick to point out that the church has helped evacuees by donating clothing, food and lodging, but their good will seems to be overshadowed by the sign.

"I'm not saying that you were evil and didn't have good intentions but it is hurtful. It's extremely hurt full. That's all I'm saying. I'm asking you to take it down," pleaded Robin.

"If I was doing it to hurt people I would take it down, but I'm not doing it to hurt people. I'm doing it to point out the sins of America," said Bennett.

Even after the sisters left the church, the confrontation continued in the parking lot. Kelly said, "That sign also says a lot about your character and your integrity and it's nothing good I assure you."

"They both called me an ungodly person with bad character and all that, and that's their right, but I have people that would say differently," Bennett told us.

Finally, the confrontation came to an end, but with no resolution. Robin tried one last time, "I'm asking you to take it down." Bennett said, "We can not go any further so we may as well go." Robin said, "That's fine. I need to go."

Robin and Kelly say they are going to spread the word of opposition to the sign and encourage people to contact the church. They hope the church will eventually take it down.

Since the sign went up, many KLTV viewers have e-mailed us with their comments. Wednesday night, a viewer named Tammy told us:

"Encouragement is needed, not more salt in the wounds... How could anyone see that sign as appropriate or bearing witness for Christ?"

We were at Woodland Hills as they prepared for Wednesday Night services.

They say earlier in the day, they were deluged with phone calls from people urging them to take the sign down.

But they say after our report, the response has been 100 percent positive. They began their service with a prayer for the people of New Orleans and Mississippi, and we spoke with many members including these who say they support the message on the sign.

Betty George has been a member for 23 years.

"Our pastor has a strong stand on the Bible and he preaches God's word, and he has compassion for America and the souls of America."

Randy Hays joined Woodland Hills in 1999.

"All our pastor was trying to say is that America is pulling away from God, and He wants America to realize that."

Pastor Bennett told us once again he has no plans to take down the sign right now, despite outcry from the community.

...On a side note, I didn't pay much attention during my private school days about Sodom and Gomorrah, so I'm a little in the gray area regarding specifics. Anyone care to enlighten me?

[wade moore]

While I can't agree with the sign, I support the Church's right to put it up if they are willing to deal with the backlash.

I just hope some government agency does not step in and try to force them to take it down, which I feel would be a violation of the freedom of speech.

[albionmoonlight]

Originally Posted by hukarez

...On a side note, I didn't pay much attention during my private school days about Sodom and Gomorrah, so I'm a little in the gray area regarding specifics. Anyone care to enlighten me?

In short, they were wicked cities that the Lord smote because they were so wicked. The story is most well known because the Lord was saving Lot and his family by telling them to get the heck out of Dodge before the bullets started flying. Lot's wife Rebecca, in direct violation of a clear order, looked back at the cities being smote and, naturally, was turned into a pillar of salt.

[Anthony]

isn't there a greek/roman myth about the same thing - a girl looking back after being told not to and then getting punished? i think it was "persephone", if i'm not mistaken.

[Solecismic]

Ironic that the same people who make such a big deal about individual choices having extra-terrestrial repercussions are so willing to condemn an entire city of individuals over a nickname.

Personally, I blame the media.

[Cringer]

Originally Posted by Solecismic

Ironic that the same people who make such a big deal about individual choices having extra-terrestrial repercussions are so willing to condemn an entire city of individuals over a nickname.

Personally, I blame the media.

Aliens? Sodom and Gomorrah?

A little anal probing reference eh?

I get the connection, you sick sick man. Very funny though.


And yes I know you don't actually mean aliens.

[jeff061]

This shit scares me. It's time we evolve and leave antiquated and irrelevant beliefs behind.

/wishfully thinking and waiting at the bell curve

[rkmsuf]

It must have sucked to get hit with hurricances in ancient times. It's like you wake up and and say hmm look, it's raining. Then hmm it's raining kind of hard and it's a little windy and then.....WTF !?!?!!?!!?!??!!?!!?

[Honolulu_Blue]

Pastor Bennett and his ilk are absolute fucktards. Being smug and righteous about the deaths of hundreds of people is fucking pathetic and shameful.

[Glengoyne]

Originally Posted by Honolulu_Blue

Pastor Bennett and his ilk are absolute fucktards. Being smug and righteous about the deaths of hundreds of people is fucking pathetic and shameful.

I tend to agree with you. If the congregation has approved the sign, its even worse.

[RendeR]

And people wonder why I despise religion. It creates ingrates like this. And frankly, IMO no amount of good is worth even one of these worthless bastards.

[Crapshoot]

I think they are a bunch of idiots, but it is their right to do so. I'm hardly a defender of Christianity, but I think only nutjobs are represented here (dola, isnt that was Capsicum was suggesting? )

[jeff061]

Nutjob-wise, there is no difference between this and following organized religion in general, no matter how seriously you take it.

This of course causes a bit more harm to the innocent and I wish pain upon this pastor.

[Honolulu_Blue]

Originally Posted by Crapshoot

(dola, isnt that was Capsicum was suggesting? )

Yeah. Someone posted a thread to some other pastor or reverend or something saying pretty much the exact same thing and Capsicum responded to it. I forget the exact response.

[wade moore]

Originally Posted by jeff061

Nutjob-wise, there is no difference between this and following organized religion in general, no matter how seriously you take it.

wow...

[Franklinnoble]

Originally Posted by Crapshoot

I think they are a bunch of idiots, but it is their right to do so. I'm hardly a defender of Christianity, but I think only nutjobs are represented here (dola, isnt that was Capsicum was suggesting? )

No, actually, I posted a story that suggested that Katrina was retribution over our support of the forced evacuation of Gaza. It turned into a four-page flame-fest, similar to what we're seeing here... Seems you can't suggest God has anything to do with, well, anything, without people calling Christians morons and spewing all sorts of hate in their general direction.

[albionmoonlight]

Let's all just stop posting in this thread now. It will only go downhill from here.

[jeff061]

Yep. Might as well post a serious article about how a giant whale in space farted and caused the hurricane. Just as believable and debateable. It's not limited to Christians if that makes you feel better.

[lighthousekeeper]

Originally Posted by hukarez

That sign at Woodland Hills Baptist Church reads ,"The big easy is the modern day Sodom and Gomorrah."

*yawn*

We all knew this was coming as soon as N.O. began flooding.

[Crapshoot]

Originally Posted by Franklinnoble

No, actually, I posted a story that suggested that Katrina was retribution over our support of the forced evacuation of Gaza. It turned into a four-page flame-fest, similar to what we're seeing here... Seems you can't suggest God has anything to do with, well, anything, without people calling Christians morons and spewing all sorts of hate in their general direction.

Actually Franklin, if you... read - you'll notice that I was defending it, and I don't think this is representative. This is a bunch of nutjobs using Christianity as their bully pulpit - much the way you are, for example.

[capsicum]

Isaiah chapter 45 verse 7 "King James version."
"I form the light,and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the LORD do all these things.

I am assured enough thru scripture to trust that the Lord will reveal all in his time.

[wade moore]

Originally Posted by albionmoonlight

In short, they were wicked cities that the Lord smote because they were so wicked. The story is most well known because the Lord was saving Lot and his family by telling them to get the heck out of Dodge before the bullets started flying. Lot's wife Rebecca, in direct violation of a clear order, looked back at the cities being smote and, naturally, was turned into a pillar of salt.

What's sad is... This could be a GREAT intellectual conversation IMO with the people from both viewpoints involved, if it were not for the name-calling/complete dismissal of a whole way of thinking....

It really is unfortunate....

That being said, I agree and will stop posting in this thread.

[Solecismic]

Originally Posted by Franklinnoble

No, actually, I posted a story that suggested that Katrina was retribution over our support of the forced evacuation of Gaza. It turned into a four-page flame-fest, similar to what we're seeing here... Seems you can't suggest God has anything to do with, well, anything, without people calling Christians morons and spewing all sorts of hate in their general direction.

Since many think God is the anthropomorphication of the human leadership of the church, I can see where the theory that a god causes hurricanes and other disasters would lead them to believe that the good pastor simply wishes that he could send hurricanes after people he doesn't like.

To others who believe in a god, it directly admonishes survivors. Do Jews - at least those who still believe (only a slight majority) - bear responsibility for the Holocaust? For those sisters, the sign basically reads "you're a bad person, and your family and friends are dead because of it."

For those of us who don't believe in a god and have some understanding of natural disasters (every observed hurricane improves the projections), the sign just seems like the nastiest underside of human nature - the sanctimonious wish to eliminate everything that isn't just like you. We all feel that way sometimes, but we know it's wrong and don't talk about it. It seems cowardly to put those beliefs in "God's" mouth.

By the way, my use of the word "extra-terrestrial" had nothing to do with a pun on anal sex. It was a reference to the age old "heaven or hell" judgment - both places not of this earth.

[kcchief19]

Would now be an inappropriate time to post the lyrics to the the song "New Orleans" from the musical "Streetcar!" starring Marge Simpson and Ned Flanders?

[sabotai]

Originally Posted by Hell Atlantic

isn't there a greek/roman myth about the same thing - a girl looking back after being told not to and then getting punished? i think it was "persephone", if i'm not mistaken.

No, that's not what happened with Persephone. Persophone ate something and was punished, but she wasn't a mortal or anything similar to the story of Sodem and Gomorrah.

http://www.pantheon.org/articles/p/persephone.html

[Subby]

Originally Posted by capsicum

Isaiah chapter 45 verse 7 "King James version."
"I form the light,and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the LORD do all these things.

What does that mean?

[Shkspr]

Once again, we'll just point out to these folks that the portion of the city the Good Lord felt worth keeping was the French Quarter.

[CHEMICAL SOLDIER]

Aren't hurricanes caused and strengthened by Warm waters and mixing of warm iar with cold air? Frankly the pastors statement is naive and hypocritical. I hate it when people take advantage of tragedies to further their petty cause.

[Critch]

When I was a kid, my Grandad told me that thunder was God farting.

[capsicum]

Originally Posted by Subby

What does that mean?

I could explain to you what it means to me , but I think you would be more enlightened finding a copy of the KJV and reading it for yourself and deciding what it means to you. I highly recommend it.

[Franklinnoble]

Originally Posted by Solecismic

Since many think God is the anthropomorphication of the human leadership of the church, I can see where the theory that a god causes hurricanes and other disasters would lead them to believe that the good pastor simply wishes that he could send hurricanes after people he doesn't like.

My belief is that "God is in control." I do not believe that God takes any pleasure in the death and suffering of anyone. I believe there was a reason that this hurricane hit New Orleans, and I do believe we will see much good come of it. Our church has already sent a team to Baton Rouge to help, and established a fund for hurricane relief. I do not think it's fair to say that most Christian pastors would "send" a hurricane to New Orleans, just because they disapprove of the behavior that the region is notorious for.

Originally Posted by Solecismic

To others who believe in a god, it directly admonishes survivors. Do Jews - at least those who still believe (only a slight majority) - bear responsibility for the Holocaust? For those sisters, the sign basically reads "you're a bad person, and your family and friends are dead because of it."

God's children have always had to suffer. This is illustrated all over the Bible. The point is not to say that "Jews were bad - they got what they deserved..." but to realize "that's what we ALL deserve..." Instead of focusing on the negative impact of the holocaust, it might be more productive to look at the positive - would Israel exist today if not for WWII?

Originally Posted by Solecismic

For those of us who don't believe in a god and have some understanding of natural disasters (every observed hurricane improves the projections), the sign just seems like the nastiest underside of human nature - the sanctimonious wish to eliminate everything that isn't just like you. We all feel that way sometimes, but we know it's wrong and don't talk about it. It seems cowardly to put those beliefs in "God's" mouth.

By the way, my use of the word "extra-terrestrial" had nothing to do with a pun on anal sex. It was a reference to the age old "heaven or hell" judgment - both places not of this earth.

I feel pretty sorry for you if you can't see the hand of God in all of creation. I used to question His existence several years ago, but I could only spend so long practicing new-age and eastern meditation before I HAD to observe the role of the Almighty in my life and in all the universe.

Now, I don't know if that sign is the best way to bring people to the acceptance of Jesus Christ, but I can certainly sympathize with the frustration of a church in the New Orleans area, and their natural acceptance of one of the good things to come out of this crisis - that this year, there probably won't be a Mardi Gras, or any other celebration of sinful excess in the streets of their city. Perhaps this disaster will shift people's attention from carnal lusts and towards the things that are a little more important in life.

[Honolulu_Blue]

Originally Posted by wade moore

What's sad is... This could be a GREAT intellectual conversation IMO with the people from both viewpoints involved, if it were not for the name-calling/complete dismissal of a whole way of thinking....

It really is unfortunate....

That being said, I agree and will stop posting in this thread.

It's a shame you'll stop posting here, though I don't blame you. I'm just honestly curious on how exactly this could be a GREAT intellectual conversation?

[Cuckoo]

Originally Posted by CHEMICAL SOLDIER

I hate it when people take advantage of tragedies to further their petty cause.

Agreed almost 100 percent. I also agree with wade moore. It's too bad when threads that could be nice discussions get blown away with people castigating entire belief systems.

Now, for the part I would disagree with CS on:

Originally Posted by Article

"All our pastor was trying to say is that America is pulling away from God, and He wants America to realize that."

If (and I realize this is a big 'if') this is indeed what this man thinks, I don't think this is a petty cause. I have respect for his religious beliefs.

The method by which he illustrates his cause is pretty disgusting, though, in my opinion.

[rkmsuf]

Originally Posted by Honolulu_Blue

It's a shame you'll stop posting here, though I don't blame you. I'm just honestly curious on how exactly this could be a GREAT intellectual conversation?

He's wearing a black uniform.

[sabotai]

Originally Posted by Shkspr

Once again, we'll just point out to these folks that the portion of the city the Good Lord felt worth keeping was the French Quarter.

Kind of punches a hole into their little theory, doesn't ir?

[sachmo71]

he's going to leave the sign up because he knows what his intensions are. funny!

[flere-imsaho]

Originally Posted by Franklinnoble

I feel pretty sorry for you if you can't see the hand of God in all of creation.

Likewise, but vice versa.

I used to question His existence several years ago, but I could only spend so long practicing new-age and eastern meditation before I HAD to observe the role of the Almighty in my life and in all the universe.

You say that as if evangelical Christianity or "new-age & eastern meditation" are the only two paths to spiritual fulfillment. That's a barren world you live in, if true.

Perhaps this disaster will shift people's attention from carnal lusts and towards the things that are a little more important in life.

Why don't you worry about your own life and let other people live theirs?

[rkmsuf]

Perhaps this disaster will shift people's attention from carnal lusts and towards the things that are a little more important in life.

Like football!

[Subby]

Originally Posted by capsicum

I could explain to you what it means to me , but I think you would be more enlightened finding a copy of the KJV and reading it for yourself and deciding what it means to you. I highly recommend it.

Thanks, I have read it countless times. I understand it. That's why I was just curious why you posted in this thread.

[flere-imsaho]

Originally Posted by Hell Atlantic

isn't there a greek/roman myth about the same thing - a girl looking back after being told not to and then getting punished? i think it was "persephone", if i'm not mistaken.

You're thinking of Orpheus & Eurydice.

[kcchief19]

Originally Posted by Shkspr

Once again, we'll just point out to these folks that the portion of the city the Good Lord felt worth keeping was the French Quarter.

TWEET!

We have inappropriate use of facts and irony in a discussion largely void of both. You've been warned.

[Klinglerware]

Originally Posted by capsicum

I could explain to you what it means to me , but I think you would be more enlightened finding a copy of the KJV and reading it for yourself and deciding what it means to you. I highly recommend it.

Actually, there are several decent English translations in use. Has anybody picked up Alter's "The Five Books of Moses" yet? I've heard that it is an excellent recent translation that addresses many of the inaccurate translations of the original Hebrew that the King James is notorious for.

[sachmo71]

Originally Posted by kcchief19

TWEET!

We have inappropriate use of facts and irony in a discussion largely void of both. You've been warned.

teehee

[jeff061]

I've had Christians tell me it scares them that I(and others) live my life not afraid of anything, since I can do anything and everything without fear of the consequences. I find it scary these Christians need a fear of hell or isolation from god to keep them in check.

It's kind of cool having a mind of your own. Drawing your own set of morals. Not being fear mongered into a certain way of thinking.

[Subby]

Originally Posted by jeff061

I've had Christians tell me it scares them that I(and others) live my life not afraid of anything, since I can do anything and everything without fear of the consequences. I find it scary these Christians need a fear of hell or isolation from god to keep them in check.

It's kind of cool having a mind of your own. Drawing your own set of morals. Not being fear mongered into a certain way of thinking.

It scares me that you are such a bigot.

[Franklinnoble]

Originally Posted by flere-imsaho

You say that as if evangelical Christianity or "new-age & eastern meditation" are the only two paths to spiritual fulfillment. That's a barren world you live in, if true.

No, actually Jesus Christ is the only way to true spiritual fulfillment. I just muddled around with some other humanistic approaches before I got there.

Originally Posted by flere-imsaho

Why don't you worry about your own life and let other people live theirs?

Sure... why don't we just worry about our own lives and leave this pastor in New Orleans alone?

[flere-imsaho]

Originally Posted by Franklinnoble

No, actually Jesus Christ is the only way to true spiritual fulfillment. I just muddled around with some other humanistic approaches before I got there.

Actually, Jesus Christ is not the only way to true spiritual fulfillment. Sorry to burst your bubble there.

Sure... why don't we just worry about our own lives and leave this pastor in New Orleans alone?

You first.

[Franklinnoble]

Originally Posted by Klinglerware

Actually, there are several decent English translations in use. Has anybody picked up Alter's "The Five Books of Moses" yet? I've heard that it is an excellent recent translation that addresses many of the inaccurate translations of the original Hebrew that the King James is notorious for.

I've done a pretty exhaustive study on the various English translations of the Bible, and I've come to the conclusion that the King James is indeed the most accurate. I'm not sure how you've come to the determination that it is "notorious" for inaccuracy... it is widely accepted as the "Authorized Version" for very good reasons.

[jeff061]

Originally Posted by Subby

It scares me that you are such a bigot.

Isolated to organized religion. Yes. We all have our flaws. Some greater than others. I look down on the belief, not the person(for the most part). I had/have friends who are Christians and family members who are Catholic. We know where we stand and get along fine.

[flere-imsaho]

Originally Posted by Franklinnoble

I'm not sure how you've come to the determination that it is "notorious" for inaccuracy... it is widely accepted as the "Authorized Version" for very good reasons.

It being the edition that's sold a lot of copies being #1, of course.