Time for a Politics Forum Section? (non-bitchfest thread)

[VPI97]

Originally Posted by VPI97

If we're not going to have a separate forum, could we at least have a thread rating system like there is in the dynasty forum? That way when I see a thread rated crap, I'll know to avoid it completely.

Originally Posted by VPI97

Ideally, you'd want a posting system on the board that would require a thread starter to select a thread type from a dropdown box (like 'General', 'News', 'Football', 'Baseball', 'Religion', 'Politics', etc). And then we could add a thread filter at the top of the forum index that would allow a user to only display those threads that fall into the categories that they want to see.

I could write either mod, if need be.

[Swaggs]

Think anyone will actually see this for awhile?

[VPI97]

Originally Posted by Swaggs

Think anyone will actually see this for awhile?

I wasn't expecting more than 5 responses.

[cthomer5000]

VPI can do anything with code. I say give it a go.

[WSUCougar]

Originally Posted by Swaggs

Think anyone will actually see this for awhile?

Shut up, bitch.*









*Trying to add drama and mud-slinging to increase viewership

[sterlingice]

I'll move my comments over here since I made the mistake of taking the other thread seriously. Silly me

Originally Posted by original post by me

I'm really opposed to this idea because it will completely gut the General Forums.

I'll use the Renquist thread as an example for the dividing line where a political thread becomes crap in my mind. It is not when there are people debating the possiblity of, say, Roe v Wade being overturned or the political ramifications as to shifting some portion of the country more red or blue. But, it's when someone starts calling someone else a fascist or a baby killer or says one point of view is mindless or says all red staters or blue staters or conservatives or liberals are morons. The problem is that it's a crazy fine line- it's the difference between being able to say President Bush came off as looking dumb answering a question versus he's always an effing moron.

But if anything with any sort of political slant is sent into this other forum, general is just going to suffer greatly for content, and, by extension, I think a lot more people will just eventually leave from boredom than if SD just started banning everyone who started escalating political threads (not that this is a good option, either).

Originally Posted by second post by me

A lot of people seem to have this view of how things happen here. Which makes me wonder, why not just ban these handful of people rather than screw up the board? Tho I suppose it would result in such a messy upheaval as it stands to reason that it would be some of the more high profile people that would be kicked out and that would lead to a bunch of others to pitch a fit because one side had more people kicked out or vice versa.

SI

[flere-imsaho]

The filter drop-down wouldn't necessarily solve the "good threads turning into partisan mudslinging" problem, unfortunately.

Good ideas that have merit, nonetheless. I've only been a member of the board for a year, though, so I'd rather have those who have been here longer make these kind of decisions.

[Icy]

Originally Posted by VPI97

I could write either mod, if need be.

It sounds good and i know you can do it

[Klinglerware]

My posts from the other thread:

Yeah, I don't think a separate forum is really necessary. If people don't want to go into political threads, they won't go in to the obvious ones and will back away quickly if they do unintentionally enter one.

Perhaps we should bring the FOF/TCY strategy section back to the general discussion? Strategy siphons off some FOF/TCY-related talk on the general discussion section, yet it isn't big enough to be a consistent forum on it's own. There is some overlap between the general FOFC and strategy discussion anyway, so perhaps returning strategy back to the general section will spark more sports text-sim related discussion.

In response to kcchief19's point about how the strategy section was split out to help new members find FOF/TCY related info:

That's a good reason for splitting it out--but that strategy section really isn't self-perpetuating and seems rarely visited. People ask questions about TCY/FOF strategy in the general discussion section anyway (I would probably do the same, since it would get more exposure from the forum membership), so I think it might be a good idea to think about reconsolidating the two sections...

[Farrah Whitworth-Rahn]

Originally Posted by flere-imsaho

The filter drop-down wouldn't necessarily solve the "good threads turning into partisan mudslinging" problem, unfortunately.

That's what I was thinking.

Is there a way to filter out threads based on certain words? For example, if I didn't want to read any threads with the word "Vikings" or "Packers" in them, can that be done?

[digamma]

My post from the other thread:

I come down on the don't separate side--partially, I admit, because of laziness--I'm not sure how often I'd go to the "political discussion" forum. That's my problem--and would be my loss (if, indeed, it was a loss).

However, another reason is that I think the political threads (before their degeneration) often contain excellent insights and fantastic local or specialized knowledge. I'd hate to lose that because those types of contributors aren't heading over to the politics board.

I've also seen this happen before on another board. When a separate politics forum was created, it quickly became a partisan bitchfest among a predictable subset of forum members. I don't want to see that happen here (I'd argue, as above, that our political threads often contain worthwhile information from a variety of contributors).

[Buzzbee]

Originally Posted by Farrah Whitworth-Rahn

That's what I was thinking.

Is there a way to filter out threads based on certain words? For example, if I didn't want to read any threads with the word "Vikings" or "Packers" in them, can that be done?

But then you'd miss out on all the threads about those liberal fudge packers.





*Note: This post was meant to be entirely humorous and light-hearted. It was in no way meant to offend anyone or to stir up political bullshit. This post does not necessarily reflect the views of this station. Does not include tax, tag or title. Objects in mirror may appear smaller. Batteries not included. Viewers under 18 not permitted.

[stevew]

A "sports" and "Sports gaming" only forum would be a better move than to split off political mudslinging.

[Farrah Whitworth-Rahn]

Originally Posted by Buzzbee

But then you'd miss out on all the threads about those liberal fudge packers.





*Note: This post was meant to be entirely humorous and light-hearted. It was in no way meant to offend anyone or to stir up political bullshit. This post does not necessarily reflect the views of this station. Does not include tax, tag or title. Objects in mirror may appear smaller. Batteries not included. Viewers under 18 not permitted.

LOL! I actually had all those damn Werewolf threads in mind when I wrote that.

[HomerJSimpson]

Originally Posted by flere-imsaho

The filter drop-down wouldn't necessarily solve the "good threads turning into partisan mudslinging" problem, unfortunately.

Good ideas that have merit, nonetheless. I've only been a member of the board for a year, though, so I'd rather have those who have been here longer make these kind of decisions.

It doesn't, and I was going to point that out in the other thread before the bomb went off, but I think it might help some. If a thread gets too political, it could always moved to the other catagory. I don't know, really. When it comes down to it I don't think there is a soution that can completely fix the problem. I think VPI's idea may be the closest we can get.

[sterlingice]

Originally Posted by Farrah Whitworth-Rahn

LOL! I actually had all those damn Werewolf threads in mind when I wrote that.

That's ok. I'm sure that when he said "liberal fudge packers", he must have been talking about people at Hershey's that put too much chocolate into a box

SI

[Godzilla Blitz]

Reposting from the other thread as well...

I like the idea of creating a separate religion/politics thread. I do think, however, that the same respect that is (theoretically) demanded in the regular forums be demanded there as well. I don't think "Political/Religous" should give you the right to be abusive or disrespectful. Partisan, fine; rude, no.

I don't think the board would suffer from the creation of a separate forum for such discussion. If anything, the board has become so active now that good, active threads drop to page 2 too quickly.

Although this is not intended as a swipe at anyone and I enjoy reading the political posts of several people here, I know that one of the reasons I don't spend as much time here is the particular political nature of the board now. I fully realize that I'm always free to ignore the threads, and I try to. However, their visibility (somewhat like trying to not look at car wrecks) and the fact that good, apolitical threads suddenly turn violently politcal make it hard for me to avoid them. When I get involved in reading them, it invariably leaves me feeling like I could have used my free time better. All things considered, I think I just click on less topics.

[Subby]

mmm...fudge.

[Buzzbee]

On a serious note, I tend to avoid threads with obvious political leanings, as I get tired of reading the same posters tossing out the same views, or defending thier political leanings no matter the subject. Very rarely do I see someone change their position or admit that the other side has a point. As a result, any positive messages that might possibly come out of them get lost in the partisanship.

That being said, I'd be against a political forum for several reasons:

1) There are some relevant political issues that are beneficial to the general forum, IMO. Renquist's death is obviously news, but is certainly going to be surrounded by politics.

2) If people aren't interested the same people spewing the same political stuff, don't click on those threads.

3) If a thread turns political and you don't care anymore, stop reading. No need for a separate forum for this.

4) Reign in the offenders rather than fuel their fire. I can count on two hands those most likely to participate. A simple warning to them to keep partisan posts civil or face punishment should suffice, and if it doesn't, then they were warned.

Those are just my thoughts. Take them for what they are worth. Thoughts.

[HomerJSimpson]

Originally Posted by digamma

My post from the other thread:

Your reasons are my reasons. I actually do have an open mind when it comes to these discusion, because I'm not so delusional to think that I "know" everything. Lots of good information are contained in many of those threads, and I'd hate to miss them. I do hate that threads way too often become a place for partisan hacks (both liberal and conservative) to spew out the party spin, or make personal attacks on those with whom they disagree. There is no way to stop that, though. In my opinion, this board is better off with the good post than it would be without the other. (Did that sentence make sense?)

[Arles]

I have to admit, the idea of having a "mud pit" of political threads that go bad is a much better idea than a separate forum. It just involves more work for Ben and company.

[Subby]

Originally Posted by Buzzbee

4) Reign in the offenders rather than fuel their fire. I can count on two hands those most likely to participate. A simple warning to them to keep partisan posts civil or face punishment should suffice, and if it doesn't, then they were warned.

I think this is a pretty solid idea, but it would most certainly require more vigilant moderation. In other words, more mods (which isn't a bad idea if this idea were implemented in lieu of a separate forum.)

[John Galt]

Originally Posted by SirFozzie

Blacky.. you're out of line dude. You're a good guy, and all that, but the line was passed about four states ago, and I think you really need to shut down the monitor, take a couple deep breaths and chill out for a while, man.

It's a message board. It's a meeting house for folks with common interests, WHATEVER THEY MAY BE, to meet and discuss things that pertain to their common interests.

What it's not.. or at least what it shouldn't be.. is a place that makes you so angry or pissed that this kind of hatred comes out.

I think both sides of this case are wrong, and over the line, but then again, it's the Godwin's Law, FOFC Corollary.

"The longer a thread goes, the more certain it will devolve into a political slap fight that will send a majority of the readers out of the thread, and preventing further discussion of whatever issue that thread was about. Any further threads created to foster discussion that deal with the topic will resume the political slap fight"

With regards to the Politics Forum?

I don't think it'd work. We've seen how innocent threads devolve into polticial fights at the drop of a hat. Unless you had a guy constantly monitoring each thread, it would get really nasty/partisan/whatever before it got moved

I think you were looking for the "other" thread.

[kurtism]

Perhaps I am missing something, but how would the creation of a new forum serve to render posts in that forum invisible? First, clicking the "Show New Threads" button serves to bring up ALL new posts, regardless of sub-forum of origin. Second, if you are concerned about "missing" these vital posts, how hard is it to click into that forum? It may necessitate an extra step, but it isn't like these posts would be exiled to Siberia...

[SirFozzie]

Shitfuck. Stupid timer.

[Klinglerware]

And of course, we've seen sports-related threads get pretty nasty too: steroids, the NBA minimum age, etc...

[John Galt]

Originally Posted by kurtism

Perhaps I am missing something, but how would the creation of a new forum serve to render posts in that forum invisible? First, clicking the "Show New Threads" button serves to bring up ALL new posts, regardless of sub-forum of origin. Second, if you are concerned about "missing" these vital posts, how hard is it to click into that forum? It may necessitate an extra step, but it isn't like these posts would be exiled to Siberia...

There's a "Show New Threads" button? Wow. Who knew? I just go to "General Discussion."

[HomerJSimpson]

Originally Posted by Buzzbee

4) Reign in the offenders rather than fuel their fire. I can count on two hands those most likely to participate. A simple warning to them to keep partisan posts civil or face punishment should suffice, and if it doesn't, then they were warned.

See, I agree with that, but it will never happen. Skydog doesn't read every post (nor do I think he can/should). And if he starts using a heavy hand, then we get the whiney/crying idiot threads that are 100 times worse than the political threads. More mods might help, but I really don't think that will make very many people happy either, because then it will be x number of moderators they'll be crying about.

Anyway, just my thoughts.

[Subby]

Originally Posted by John Galt

There's a "Show New Threads" button? Wow. Who knew? I just go to "General Discussion."

Thats cuz your stupid.

[John Galt]

Originally Posted by Subby

Thats cuz your stupid.

[kurtism]

Originally Posted by John Galt

There's a "Show New Threads" button? Wow. Who knew? I just go to "General Discussion."

http://dynamic.gamespy.com/~fof/foru....php?do=getnew

[John Galt]

Originally Posted by kurtism

http://dynamic.gamespy.com/~fof/foru....php?do=getnew

I still like my way better. I don't want hattrick and when I want a dynasty, I know where to go.

[Passacaglia]

Originally Posted by John Galt

There's a "Show New Threads" button? Wow. Who knew? I just go to "General Discussion."

I think this post really speaks to the heart of the matter. I can't STAND those fuckers who hit the Show New Threads button instead of just going to General Discussion.

[Swaggs]

Originally Posted by WSUCougar

Shut up, bitch.*









*Trying to add drama and mud-slinging to increase viewership

Oh no you didn't!

[Subby]

Originally Posted by Passacaglia

I think this post really speaks to the heart of the matter. I can't STAND those fuckers who hit the Show New Threads button instead of just going to General Discussion.

I will cut you.

[Antmeister]

I see where everyone is going with it and I was almost willing to go in this direction, but then I realized why people want a seperate area. The only reason people want a seperate forum is because of how most of them degenerate into name calling, hatred filled posts and some borderline trolling. This happens without the need of politics though.

By creating a seperate section, they will still have to follow the same rules unless you want to make it an "Enter at your own risk area." If that were to happen, most of the people who primarily come to the board motivated to talk about politics will dwindle since a lot of the posters actually like to have a dialouge and not an insult ridden tirades. Now if it weren't a "free to say anything area", I don't see why we have a need for this since everyone will have to follow the same rules.

And what happens when the topic can fall in both areas. The latest hurricane threads can fall into general discussion, but there are politics involved. People will talk about the tragedy (General discussion) and people will talk about what should have been done (Politics). And what if Hell Atlantic were to start another one of his sexual fantasy threads that dealt with Barbara Bush? Or what if someone posts their favorite song from Kanye West? I mean these have the potential to degenerate into political bashing really quick and I don't see how they can be seperated.

To be honest, I would like to see some rules, or at least guidelines to these forums. Sometimes there is that sticky of the top for links, but maybe it could be expanded a bit with some general guidelines.

Yet that is easy for me to say since I have no idea where to start. I mean I actually enjoy reading some of the risque material on the board, but somewhere there is a line that is crossed and I can't really define where the line is. One of the recent threads that was locked is a clear example. Someone posted about an email they received from a friend who knows someone at the Astrodome (hmmmm.....sounds complicated. No this is not a Flasch post). Anyways upon reading the thread, it was pretty much racist and mean spirited. Yet the original poster stated that it was not their opinion. How would you moderate that? Especailly when you see another thread about some guy called the "Amazing Racist?". Sure the Amazing Racist is a comedian, but where the frick is that line for questionable material? I didn't really care for either and promptly left the thread.

So in other words Skydog is basically moderating a place where he trying to balance against not too offensive and not too sterile and that is what has made this place fascinating to me and why I have always come back. That is why it would be difficult to come up with a set of general rules and why having a seperate section may not be a good idea.

[End of Chapter 1]

[Farrah Whitworth-Rahn]

Originally Posted by Antmeister71

And what if Hell Atlantic were to start another one of his sexual fantasy threads that dealt with Barbara Bush?

Was that a real fantasy? Ick.

EDIT - unless of course it's Barbara the twin, then I can totally understand.

[wbatl1]

Originally Posted by Farrah Whitworth-Rahn

LOL! I actually had all those damn Werewolf threads in mind when I wrote that.

Then we just need to filter out threads with a million plus replies

[Klinglerware]

Originally Posted by Farrah Whitworth-Rahn

Was that a real fantasy? Ick.

Different strokes for different folks...

[Antmeister]

Originally Posted by Farrah Whitworth-Rahn

Was that a real fantasy? Ick.

EDIT - unless of course it's Barbara the twin, then I can totally understand.

Hell Atlantic is a unique individual and his lust shows no bounderies.

[Honolulu_Blue]

I don't think there need to be a separate political forum. I think if people start threads with "POL" or "POLITICAL" in them, that should be enough. Sure, threads (see: this one) that start off as non-political can devolve quickly (quicker and quicker each day it seems), well then the folks can stop reading it or hope that who ever started the thread will change the title (don't ask Easy Mac to do this, he doesn't like changing titles of his threads).

Also, adding "No Politics" to a thread titel seems to work. People have been respectful of the Terps' "Katrina" thread and Mizzou's "Iraq Blog" thread and I would hope that would be respectful to other threads.

At the end of the day, however, I don't really care. Six of one, half dozen of the other.

[Bee]

Originally Posted by Godzilla Blitz

Reposting from the other thread as well...

I like the idea of creating a separate religion/politics thread. I do think, however, that the same respect that is (theoretically) demanded in the regular forums be demanded there as well. I don't think "Political/Religous" should give you the right to be abusive or disrespectful. Partisan, fine; rude, no.

I don't think the board would suffer from the creation of a separate forum for such discussion. If anything, the board has become so active now that good, active threads drop to page 2 too quickly.

Although this is not intended as a swipe at anyone and I enjoy reading the political posts of several people here, I know that one of the reasons I don't spend as much time here is the particular political nature of the board now. I fully realize that I'm always free to ignore the threads, and I try to. However, their visibility (somewhat like trying to not look at car wrecks) and the fact that good, apolitical threads suddenly turn violently politcal make it hard for me to avoid them. When I get involved in reading them, it invariably leaves me feeling like I could have used my free time better. All things considered, I think I just click on less topics.

I'll just ditto what GB said since it sums up my opinion almost exactly.

[Antmeister]

This should really be a poll.

[VPI97]

Here's a mockup of what I'm talking about:

http://www.fof-ihof.com/upload/VPI97/fofc_mockup.png

[Swaggs]

Originally Posted by VPI97

Here's a mockup of what I'm talking about:

http://www.fof-ihof.com/upload/VPI97/fofc_mockup.png

Looks great to me.

[Schmidty]

Originally Posted by Klinglerware

And of course, we've seen sports-related threads get pretty nasty too: steroids, the NBA minimum age, etc...

Yeah, but that's on a different level. I mean, I hate UofM, but that doesn't mean I hate the people that like UofM. Hell, my own dad is a huge UofM fan, and I love him to death.

[HomerJSimpson]

Originally Posted by VPI97

Here's a mockup of what I'm talking about:

http://www.fof-ihof.com/upload/VPI97/fofc_mockup.png

That does look great. I hope it gets done and people use it correctly.

[st.cronin]

I am against a separate forum for politics because the problem isn't politics per se.

[Honolulu_Blue]

Originally Posted by Schmidty

Yeah, but that's on a different level. I mean, I hate UofM, but that doesn't mean I hate the people that like UofM. Hell, Honolulu_Blue is a huge UofM fan, and I love him to death.

Awww... Schmidty, I love you too, man!

[Ryan S]

Originally Posted by VPI97

I could write either mod, if need be.

I have implemented thread ratings in General Discussion. We can give it a shot this week to see what people think of it.