The Undertaker vs Carmelo Anthony?

[DeToxRox]

Pretty funny stuff from Vince. A nice shot at the Nuggets owner. I am shocked honestly this hasn't happened to Vince before to be honest. Anyway, should be interesting to see how far Vince pushes it since there is no way they're not going to play the game there.

Kobe Bryant and the Los Angeles Lakers are scheduled to be at the Pepsi Center in Denver next Monday night.

Problem is, so are John Cena and a bunch of wrestlers -- and they called it first.

World Wrestling Entertainment said it is booked at the arena for an episode of Monday Night Raw, the same night the Nuggets are slated to host the Lakers in Game 4 of the Western Conference finals.

WWE chairman Vince McMahon told The Associated Press he doesn't believe there was "any malice, just ineptness," on the part of Kroenke Sports, which owns the team and the building, but can't tolerate the company "just simply throwing us out on our ear."

Without a quick resolution, McMahon plans to send his trucks to Denver.

"That's what we intend to do," he said. "We're going to show up."

Pepsi Center officials told the ABC television affiliate in Denver that the Nuggets game will be played as scheduled and that they are working with the WWE to reschedule or move its event.

Paul Andrews, executive vice president of Kroenke Sports Enterprises, issued a statement Monday night concerning the scheduling conflict, saying: "We are working with the WWE to resolve the situation amicably."

WWE spokesman Robert Zimmerman said the organization secured the Pepsi Center last Aug. 15 and has already sold more than 10,000 tickets for the event. He says the organization expects a sellout, with tickets ranging from $20 to $70.

McMahon blamed Kroenke for not believing his team was good enough to still be playing in mid-May.

"The fans in Denver had a lot more faith in making the playoffs than the owner," he said in a phone interview from Louisville, where Raw was taking place later Monday night.

Denver is usually done with basketball by now. The Nuggets had lost in the first round five straight years, but as the No. 2 seed in the West are in the conference finals for the first time since 1985.

The league, which handles scheduling during the playoffs, is leaving it up to the team and the WWE to figure things out.

"The Nuggets and the WWE understand that the date of Game 4 of the Western Conference finals cannot be changed," NBA senior vice president Mike Bass said. "We are confident that the Pepsi Center and the WWE will resolve their scheduling conflict."

Zimmerman said the Pepsi Center confirmed in March with the WWE that the organization wanted to keep the May 25 date, and sent a contract on April 15 -- the final night of the regular season -- which WWE signed and returned. Tickets went on sale April 11.

The conflict didn't arise until Sunday, when the Lakers beat the Houston Rockets in Game 7 of the Western Conference semifinals. Had the Rockets won, Denver would have had home-court advantage in the next round, hosting Games 1 and 2 and putting the May 25 game in Houston.

As of Monday afternoon, the schedule on the Pepsi Center's Web site listed WWE for 6:30 p.m. local time and Western Conference finals Game 4 at 7 p.m. Tickets for the wrestling event could still be purchased online.

McMahon said he couldn't guess how much he would make from the show, but that canceling wasn't easy because of how much is involved in moving his equipment, plus filling its obligated time slot on USA Network. Litigation is likely -- but he plans to be putting on a card.

"When you do have a date, you plan everything around it," he said, adding, "we may be holding an event in a parking lot somewhere."

[DaddyTorgo]

they'll just pay him off to do it at a smaller arena nearby and make up the lost ticket sales

[JonInMiddleGA]

"The Nuggets and the WWE understand that the date of Game 4 of the Western Conference finals cannot be changed

Dunno why not, the WWE has not only a live TV show to produce from the venue but also a contract that gives them the building.

Sounds to me like the NBA needs to get way the hell over itself as well as do a much better job of making sure they've actually booked the arenas they need. And if it weren't for the Lakers being in the game, there's actually more people who watch Raw than have watched the games involving the Nuggets so far in the playoffs, so it's not like the NBA is that much "bigger" (nor more credible afaic) than Vince.

edit to add: If it were just a house show I doubt the WWE would care much to be honest, they'd just reschedule the event for another date down the road & catch Denver on their next trip through. But it's their biggest show of the week, which means not just any arena will do, gotta have the appropriate sightlines, camera situations, etc.

[bulletsponge]

if the Lakers are behind 2-1 in the series, expect WWE type referees

just kidding.. i hope

[RainMaker]

Wouldn't it be easier for the NBA to re-schedule? They don't necessarily have set dates like the WWE does on TV. Considering the ratings WWE does (which I have to believe are comparable to the NBA Playoffs), it's not like the NBA should have dibs.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by RainMaker

Considering the ratings WWE does (which I have to believe are comparable to the NBA Playoffs)

Seems to depend.

Lakers games beat wrestling last week or two, some Celtics games do too. Nuggets, et al, not even the Cavs, have beaten the WWE yet on cable.

[Fidatelo]

I don't get why the NBA doesn't just play the nuggets game either the day before or the day after?

[Neon_Chaos]

Originally Posted by Fidatelo

I don't get why the NBA doesn't just play the nuggets game either the day before or the day after?

Because it wasn't their scheduling that f'd up. Nor was it the WWE's. They both want Nuggets management to straighten this shit out.

[PilotMan]

I love the skewering that Vince is giving in the media. Can't wait to hear more.

[dubb93]

Not a fan of wrestling anymore but a contract is a contract. I hope the NBA doesn't win here.

[Ronnie Dobbs2]

Vince is awesome.

[RainMaker]

Originally Posted by dubb93

Not a fan of wrestling anymore but a contract is a contract. I hope the NBA doesn't win here.

My guess is they cut a deal to tape it on a Sunday or something, Vince gets some extra cash in his pocket for the troubles along with a shitload of free publicity from being on ESPN and other networks all week.

[molson]

Originally Posted by RainMaker

My guess is they cut a deal to tape it on a Sunday or something, Vince gets some extra cash in his pocket for the troubles along with a shitload of free publicity from being on ESPN and other networks all week.

He also has material for some schtick on the show. I'm sure he won't be able to resist taking some shots.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by RainMaker

My guess is they cut a deal to tape it on a Sunday or something

But that isn't entirely up to Vince either, as his deal with USA calls for X amount of live programming, he can't just tape on a whim, the network would be on his ass in a heartbeat. Remember, although things have improved lately, it wasn't long ago at all that the relationship between the WWE and USA was showing signs of strain.

Among other things it was the network that insisted on several big moves to try to jumpstart ratings again (Jericho's return being among them, the failed cash giveaway being another), they also put someone much more hands on in the relationship to exert their influence.

Last thing Vince wants to do is upset that apple cart, which he's gotten reloaded fairly nicely at the moment.

[RendeR]

NBA vs WWE for tv time and arena rights



sounds like a case of:


"Battle for total suckage"

[Capital]

This is also the NBA not wanting two games played on the same day. With the NBA arrogance of not releasing playoff dates to the last second, I'm sure they didn't check to see if the buildings are available for certain dates. They care about the TV product.

The WWE has agreed to the date back in August 2008 and then signed a contract on April 2009. That would appear to me to be fairly binding.

However, Vince is getting publicity, which he loves, and will probably get a hefty buy out. There's rumor that he will be moving the show to Colorado Springs - where they are taping Smackdown the next night.

[Samdari]

Originally Posted by Capital

This is also the NBA not wanting two games played on the same day. With the NBA arrogance of not releasing playoff dates to the last second, I'm sure they didn't check to see if the buildings are available for certain dates. They care about the TV product.

The WWE has agreed to the date back in August 2008 and then signed a contract on April 2009. That would appear to me to be fairly binding.

However, Vince is getting publicity, which he loves, and will probably get a hefty buy out. There's rumor that he will be moving the show to Colorado Springs - where they are taping Smackdown the next night.

The NBA is contractually obligated to two networks not to have two conference finals games on the same night. Its not a desire, its a contractual obligation made way before August 2008.

The dates of the conference finals games and NBA finals games were not released at the last minute, they were set in August of 2008.

No contract is truly binding, its only a matter of how much you have to pay to break it.

[Neon_Chaos]

All the blame is on the Pepsi Center management.

Apparently, they didn't even tell the NBA that the WWE was coming into town.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by Neon_Chaos

Apparently, they didn't even tell the NBA that the WWE was coming into town.

Shouldn't the NBA (or its team that needs the building) make sure their ducks are in a row instead of assuming that the world will put everything on hold for them?

[dubb93]

Originally Posted by Samdari

No contract is truly binding, its only a matter of how much you have to pay to break it.

And if I was Vince I would rape them.

[Samdari]

Originally Posted by Neon_Chaos

All the blame is on the Pepsi Center management.

Apparently, they didn't even tell the NBA that the WWE was coming into town.

The Nuggets own the Pepsi center, so....

Its not like it would have mattered had they told them. Game 4 of the conference finals was fixed for that date as of August 2008.

[MikeVic]

So the NBA knew the Nuggets would be playing in Denver back in August of 2008? Why did the arena book the WWE event then?

[Samdari]

Originally Posted by MikeVic

So the NBA knew the Nuggets would be playing in Denver back in August of 2008? Why did the arena book the WWE event then?

No, they knew there would be a Western conference finals game that night though.

Why they booked the Arena for something else - its clearly a major screw up.

[Passacaglia]

Why didn't they just make the Cavs-Magic Game 1 last night, and the Lakers-Nuggets tonight -- wouldn't that have pushed back when Game 4 of the Lakers-Nuggets would be?

[molson]

Originally Posted by Passacaglia

Why didn't they just make the Cavs-Magic Game 1 last night, and the Lakers-Nuggets tonight -- wouldn't that have pushed back when Game 4 of the Lakers-Nuggets would be?

The NBA maybe just doesn't want to adjust its schedule for wrestling. They might think that makes them look less important, ect.

[Passacaglia]

Originally Posted by molson

The NBA maybe just doesn't want to adjust its schedule for wrestling. They might think that makes them look less important, ect.

Would it necessarily be seen as that, though? I don't know how they set the schedules, but all I know is that both Game 7's were on Sunday. I can see why they wouldn't want both series to be on the same days, so they had one series start two days later, and the other start three days later. Why did they choose to do it this way?

[molson]

I think Vince should just show up and run the entire show from the locker room, or outside the arena, or in the stands during the game.

[DeToxRox]

Originally Posted by molson

I think Vince should just show up and run the entire show from the locker room, or outside the arena, or in the stands during the game.

I wonder if Stern watched the WWE Draft Show yet. Maybe they can let him book next years Draft Lottery?

[MikeVic]

Originally Posted by Samdari

No, they knew there would be a Western conference finals game that night though.

Why they booked the Arena for something else - its clearly a major screw up.

Oh ok, I thought you were trying to say that because the Western conference finals were known in August 2008, it somehow wasn't a screw-up.

[albionmoonlight]

Normally, when a party breaches a contract, the law does not penalize them; it simply tries to make the injured party "whole."

For example, lets say that I contract to sell you my bike for $10, but you end up buying another bike for $5 and refuse to buy mine. So, I have to sell mine to someone else for $8. In that case, you would owe me $2. That puts me in the position that I would have been had you honored the contract--out one bike but with $10 in my pocket. The law likes this outcome because I end up in the same position, but you end up in a better place (you get a bike for $7 instead of $10). It is, as they say, efficient.

Generally, when two parties like the WWE and whoever owns the Pepsi Center have a contract, they have a provision called "liquidated damages," which is a way of saying in advance, if you breach, this is what we expect our damages to be. As long as that number is reasonable, the courts will enforce it because we like the fact that the parties are saving everyone the trouble of trying to compute damages.

I have no idea if the contract in this case included such a provision.

Let's say that it did not. If Pepsi C does not let WWE into the arena, then they will owe WWE damages for breaching the contract. Now (just to make it a little more complicated), WWE does have an obligation to take reasonable efforts to minimize it damages. So, in the bike example above, I had to try to sell the bike on the open market and get the best price. I could not set fire to it and then ask you for $10.

So, let's say that WWE does what it can to minimize damages. Pepsi C will still owe them their damages. That can be any combination of a penalty that WWE has to pay to USA network, having to rebook travel, having to rent another place at the last minute, having to reimbuse people who planned to come to the show, having to reimburse sponsors who may feel that a new date/location does not provide the same value that they paid for, etc. etc. etc. (Jon In MGA probably has good insight into how the sponsorship angle of all this works).

Of course, WWE has to make reasonable efforts to minimize damages, not extraordinary efforts. So, if they decide to move to, say, Colorado Springs, they don't have to drive the hardest bargin that they can for rental--they can just call up any arena and pay market rate for it, knowing that Pepsi C will make up the difference.

In reality, I imagine that Pepsi C will sit down with WWE and they will agree on some dollar figure that will let WWE walk away happy and Pepsi C wishing that whoever booked the building had a calendar on their desk.

[Passacaglia]

Originally Posted by Samdari

The Nuggets own the Pepsi center, so....

Its not like it would have mattered had they told them. Game 4 of the conference finals was fixed for that date as of August 2008.

So wait a minute...if Rounds 1 and 2 were all sweeps, the teams would sit around for a couple weeks waiting until now to start the conference finals?

[Neuqua]

Originally Posted by Passacaglia

So wait a minute...if Rounds 1 and 2 were all sweeps, the teams would sit around for a couple weeks waiting until now to start the conference finals?

It's what the Cavs did, isn't it?

[Passacaglia]

Originally Posted by Neuqua

It's what the Cavs did, isn't it?

But that's one team -- they kinda had to, since they didn't know who they're playing yet. What I'm asking about is what happens if both teams are ready to play.

[molson]

Originally Posted by Passacaglia

But that's one team -- they kinda had to, since they didn't know who they're playing yet. What I'm asking about is what happens if both teams are ready to play.

I'm positive that in the past, when two teams both finish their 1st round series early, they start their second round series against each other before the 1st round is even finished.

It might be a different story going from the 2nd round to the conference finals. And I'm pretty sure the finals dates are set in advance (looking that up, it appears the NBA Finals will start June 4th no matter what).

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by molson

I'm positive that in the past, when two teams both finish their 1st round series early, they start their second round series against each other before the 1st round is even finished.

I think that used to be the case but isn't any longer. Dunno why I think that -- something I heard, read, saw, dreamed, imagined, take your pick -- but if you'd asked me that's what I'd have told you.

[Abe Sargent]

Originally Posted by JonInMiddleGA

Dunno why not, the WWE has not only a live TV show to produce from the venue but also a contract that gives them the building.

Sounds to me like the NBA needs to get way the hell over itself as well as do a much better job of making sure they've actually booked the arenas they need. And if it weren't for the Lakers being in the game, there's actually more people who watch Raw than have watched the games involving the Nuggets so far in the playoffs, so it's not like the NBA is that much "bigger" (nor more credible afaic) than Vince.

edit to add: If it were just a house show I doubt the WWE would care much to be honest, they'd just reschedule the event for another date down the road & catch Denver on their next trip through. But it's their biggest show of the week, which means not just any arena will do, gotta have the appropriate sightlines, camera situations, etc.

Agreed. If I were McMahon I'd push. This is my venue, you agreed to rent it to me, I have a contract, and you are not bullying me with money.

[chesapeake]

I suspect that Vince and Kroenke already have the outlines of a resolution to the problem and the controversy is all kayfabed.

[Samdari]

Originally Posted by Passacaglia

Would it necessarily be seen as that, though? I don't know how they set the schedules, but all I know is that both Game 7's were on Sunday. I can see why they wouldn't want both series to be on the same days, so they had one series start two days later, and the other start three days later. Why did they choose to do it this way?

Becase the networks that televise the conference and NBA finals asked the NBA a few years ago to have the dates fixed. So they are. These dates were fixed in August.

Originally Posted by Abe Sargent

Agreed. If I were McMahon I'd push. This is my venue, you agreed to rent it to me, I have a contract, and you are not bullying me with money.

The Nuggets lease with the Pepsi Center guarantees them availability of the arena for playoff games (as required by the NBA in all leases for their teams). This lease was presumably signed before the contract for the WWE.

So the Pepsi center has two legally binding contracts for different entities to use the facility that night. I suspect they are going to honor the one with the team owned by the same guy who owns the building.

[molson]

Originally Posted by Samdari

Becase the networks that televise the conference and NBA finals asked the NBA a few years ago to have the dates fixed. So they are. These dates were fixed in August.

That's a pretty amazing concession, I'm sure this situation will come up again. I can't imagine every NBA arena in the country reserves 14 specific days in May and June just in case their teams get that far in the playoffs.

[Samdari]

Originally Posted by molson

That's a pretty amazing concession, I'm sure this situation will come up again. I can't imagine every NBA arena in the country reserves 14 specific days in May and June just in case their teams get that far in the playoffs.

How hard is that really? The Pepsi center has non-NBA events on 5 days in May (if you count the WWE event still listed as this Monday, the 26th @6:30), 3 in June, 6 in July. That's 76 of roughly 90 days open. I would imagine that's fairly typical.

I doubt its that much of a problem for most teams, many of the arenas are built for the sports team and sit empty most of the time they're not playing.

They need to keep some/all (I don't know how that works) of the time for the first two rounds available as well. They must keep the dates open, because you do not hear about this kind of thing that often.

[molson]

Originally Posted by Samdari

How hard is that really? The Pepsi center has non-NBA events on 5 days in May, 3 in June, 6 in July. That's 76 of roughly 90 days open. I would imagine that's fairly typical.

I doubt its that much of a problem for most teams, many of the arenas are there primarily for the sports team and sit empty most of the time they're not playing.

They need to keep some/all (I don't know how that works) of the time for the first two rounds available as well. They must keep the dates open, because you do not hear about this kind of thing that often.

I assumed those arenas were busier, but that makes sense.

So the Nuggets knew the date, basically bet against their own success, and lost. That actually seems like a pretty decent bet for most NBA teams. What are the odds there'd be a conflict, even in the unlikely event your team got that far.

And it will probably be a windfall for the WWE, assuming they won't count all this free publicity against them in reaching a settlement.

[lordscarlet]

Wow, I was going to argue that the Verizon Center (DC) is busier than that (not that the Wizards have to worry anyway). However, they have 1 event in June and 5 in July. 4 of those are the Mystics. (that is, from this day in May, there were ones earlier in May)

[DeToxRox]

Monday Night Raw will be held in Los Angeles' Staples Center, according to Los Angeles NBC affiliate KNBC. The network is reporting that World Wrestling Entertainment will be holding a press conference later today to announce the move.

Raw's move was neccesitated by the Denver Nuggets' NBA Playoff game, which has brought a ton of publicity to the situation.

There is no word yet on how tickets to Monday's event will be handled. As of this writing, there is no listing for the event on Ticketmaster.

The 2009 edition of Summerslam will also be held at the Staples Center in August.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Brilliant in every way ... except the relationship between the WWE and their fans in Denver.

[lordscarlet]

Originally Posted by JonInMiddleGA

Brilliant in every way ... except the relationship between the WWE and their fans in Denver.

You don't think they will be at least somewhat exonerated? I would imagine that WWE fans in Denver would be equally if not more upset with the Nuggets (I wouldn't think they have a TON of overlapping support to begin with).

[chesapeake]

I'm with lordscarlet on this one. I think WWE fans recognize that Vince didn't want to move the event and that dissing Denver is all part of his schtick as a heel.

I'm also betting that Vince comes out in a Laker or Cavalier jersey -- depending on who beats Denver in the playoffs -- when they head back to Denver on August 7.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by chesapeake

I think WWE fans recognize that Vince didn't want to move the event and that dissing Denver is all part of his schtick as a heel.

I don't think the schtick is an issue, that's just part of the show. But any parent who has ever had a kid looking forward to a show and then something derails it, no matter how unavoidable or beyond the control of the promoter, well they'll know where I see a problem.

This whole thing just caused major grief for a lot of parents, not to mention Colorado Springs fans apparently getting a shaft that they had zero do to with (I'm assuming the Tuesday taping in LA is to replace the previously scheduled one, not in addition to it, but haven't seen that clarified for sure anywhere)

[DataKing]

You know, I'm not really a wrestling fan, but I'll probably tune in to check out Monday Night Raw (especially since it won't conflict with the Stanley Cup playoffs). Assuming there are plenty of others out there like myself, this could really end up being a blessing in disguise for Vince. I'd be curious to see what their ratings will be like, compared to what they usually get in this timeslot.

[Neon_Chaos]

Originally Posted by DataKing

You know, I'm not really a wrestling fan, but I'll probably tune in to check out Monday Night Raw (especially since it won't conflict with the Stanley Cup playoffs). Assuming there are plenty of others out there like myself, this could really end up being a blessing in disguise for Vince. I'd be curious to see what their ratings will be like, compared to what they usually get in this timeslot.

Expect some fat dude to play the Denver CEO person, and 5 midgets to play the Nuggets.

[DataKing]

I fully expect the "Nuggets," whoever they are, to get squashed.