Juicing: Who Would Make you Sad?

terpkristin · 01-13-2010, 06:03 PM

With all the allegations and admissions of late from Mark McGwire (and everybody in the past!), are there any players that if it came out that they juiced, you'd be completely disheartened?

For me, it's Cal Ripken, Jr. Yes, I'm a Boston fan through-and-through, but Cal has always had a sweet spot in my heart (and let's be honest, I want my local teams to win, unless they're playing Boston!).

Any other "near and dear" players?

/tk

Rizon · 01-13-2010, 06:04 PM

Takeru Kobayashi

Toddzilla · 01-13-2010, 06:06 PM

Ryne Sandberg - I'd probably break down and cry.

JonInMiddleGA · 01-13-2010, 06:06 PM

Greg Maddux. Probably Julio Franco

Otherwise, I don't know that there's really anybody in baseball over the last 10-20 years that it would have any emotional impact on me, simply aren't very many in that span that I've genuinely like or pull for individually.

path12 · 01-13-2010, 06:12 PM

Edgar Martinez.

rowech · 01-13-2010, 06:14 PM

Maddux. Would be disappointed with Larkin and Griffey but neither would surprise me.

KWhit · 01-13-2010, 06:20 PM

John Smoltz.

And Tiger Woods in golf - although I am not as big a fan of his now as I was a few months ago.

Honolulu_Blue · 01-13-2010, 06:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by KWhit

And Tiger Woods in golf - although I am not as big a fan of his now as I was a few months ago.

Why's that? Something happen with Tiger?

Eaglesfan27 · 01-13-2010, 06:23 PM

Ryan Howard. From looking at him when he was young, he looks like he was just always a big dude, and I enjoy rooting for him.

Karlifornia · 01-13-2010, 06:25 PM

Jose Canseco. 40/40 talent. I would be devastated to find out he wasn't doing it clean.

stevew · 01-13-2010, 06:25 PM

Griffey
Randy Johnson
Jeter

stevew · 01-13-2010, 06:27 PM

Dola

Mariano Rivera too.

Eaglesfan27 · 01-13-2010, 06:28 PM

Griffey would be my 2nd choice because he is among my favorite players who weren't Phillies.

Scoobz0202 · 01-13-2010, 06:29 PM

Larkin and Griffey

To an extent, Pujols. He is such a freak of nature that I want it to be natural. Bonds... Ramirez... Can Pujols please just be fucking clean.

terpkristin · 01-13-2010, 06:30 PM

Wait, does anybody think that Bonds WAS clean? I don't, but maybe I'm missing something....

/tk

sovereignstar · 01-13-2010, 06:33 PM

Griffey. Won't even mention Joe Mauer. Ain't a chance in hell.

Ronnie Dobbs2 · 01-13-2010, 06:34 PM

Pedro, though I wouldn't be shocked.

Jeter.

Bunch of the other guys mentioned like Cal, the Braves.

yacovfb · 01-13-2010, 06:38 PM

Tony Gwynn

Comey · 01-13-2010, 06:39 PM

Frank Thomas. Such a natural talent.

JS19 · 01-13-2010, 06:41 PM

Griffey, big time.

Butter · 01-13-2010, 06:44 PM

Griffey.

McSweeny · 01-13-2010, 06:51 PM

nobody

lighthousekeeper · 01-13-2010, 06:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rizon

Takeru Kobayashi

be prepared to be sad

lighthousekeeper · 01-13-2010, 06:56 PM

Who's the Next Steroid User to Murder Their Family? - Chris Benoit - Deadspin

Swaggs · 01-13-2010, 07:08 PM

It would be sad for me to find out that any notable Pittsburgh Pirates were using during the steroid. Otherwise, it would make their pathetic performance that much worse.

larrymcg421 · 01-13-2010, 07:09 PM

Dale Murphy

Greg Maddux

Rafael Belliard

yacovfb · 01-13-2010, 07:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Swaggs

It would be sad for me to find out that any notable Pittsburgh Pirates were using during the steroid. Otherwise, it would make their pathetic performance that much worse.

Post Barry?

samifan24 · 01-13-2010, 07:21 PM

Ken Griffey, Jr.
Greg Maddux
Cal Ripken, Jr.
Tony Gwynn

Blackadar · 01-13-2010, 07:24 PM

I'd place dollars to donuts that about half the guys in this thread have juiced at least once. Ken Caminiti said that more than half the majors were on something and I never found any reason to doubt him. Canseco estimated it at 85% and while he's a loudmouth, he's never been proven wrong.

Face it, anyone who played from the mid 80s through 2003 is suspect.

cougarfreak · 01-13-2010, 07:25 PM

Griffey and Maddux.

RainMaker · 01-13-2010, 07:32 PM

Greg Maddux.

Young Drachma · 01-13-2010, 07:36 PM

John Olerud

Drake · 01-13-2010, 07:56 PM

Yes, Griffey and Frank Thomas.

But I already had my worst with Big Papi.

Neuqua · 01-13-2010, 07:56 PM

Maddux def.

Young Drachma · 01-13-2010, 07:58 PM

Oh and David Cone.

Logan · 01-13-2010, 07:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Comey

Frank Thomas. Such a natural talent.

I'd really be amazed if him being the sole player to voluntarily talk to Mitchell ended up being some kind of elaborate smokescreen.

Swaggs · 01-13-2010, 08:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by yacovfb

Post Barry?

Good question. I'm guessing that he didn't get hooked on the juice until he got out to SF, as it seems like the Bay Area was the early hotspot for 'roids, but who knows? His head seemed like it was a normal size while he was with the Pirates.

Big Fo · 01-13-2010, 08:19 PM

Maddux
Glavine
Smoltz
Chipper Jones
Griffey

SackAttack · 01-13-2010, 08:20 PM

Joe Shlabotnik.

BYU 14 · 01-13-2010, 08:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by yacovfb

Tony Gwynn

It was juicing not grazing

I would be disappointed with Gwynn as well, genuinely good guy. Also Jeter, Maddux, Ripken and Mariano.

McLovin · 01-13-2010, 08:27 PM

Edgar Martinez
Larry Walker
Gary Carter

hawk4669 · 01-13-2010, 08:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SackAttack

Joe Shlabotnik.

You made me smile.

Cheers!

Swaggs · 01-13-2010, 08:35 PM

I can understand being disappointed, but I wouldn't be surprised by a lot of the pitchers that have been mentioned. Although guys like Maddux, Glavine, R. Johnson, etc. don't have the physiques of 'roid users, the fact that they were effective pitchers into their 40s makes me a little suspicious of them.

SackAttack · 01-13-2010, 08:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Swaggs

I can understand being disappointed, but I wouldn't be surprised by a lot of the pitchers that have been mentioned. Although guys like Maddux, Glavine, R. Johnson, etc. don't have the physiques of 'roid users, the fact that they were effective pitchers into their 40s makes me a little suspicious of them.

Guys like Maddux and Glavine didn't have the fireballing stuff going for them that Johnson and Clemens did.

What they did have was probably a combination of veteran pitching wiles and a certain reputation with the umpires. I mean, look at Maddux in his Dodger days - dude would go toss 7 innings of ball and only throw about 65 pitches or so.

You can't do that with steroids. Does it mean he didn't use them? Nah. Might've been a judicious user to try and recover more quickly from injuries and the like, but you just don't achieve that kind of pitch economy because you're a juicer.

Izulde · 01-13-2010, 08:42 PM

Frank Thomas
Ken Griffey, Jr.
Tony Gwynn
Rickey Henderson

Any of the 2005 White Sox champion team members, but especially Bobby Jenks, Paul Konerko and Jim Thome.

Current White Sox not mentioned above - Alexei Ramirez, Carlos Quentin, Gordon Beckham

cuervo72 · 01-13-2010, 08:43 PM

Mike LaValliere.

BYU 14 · 01-13-2010, 08:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SackAttack

Guys like Maddux and Glavine didn't have the fireballing stuff going for them that Johnson and Clemens did.

What they did have was probably a combination of veteran pitching wiles and a certain reputation with the umpires. I mean, look at Maddux in his Dodger days - dude would go toss 7 innings of ball and only throw about 65 pitches or so.

You can't do that with steroids. Does it mean he didn't use them? Nah. Might've been a judicious user to try and recover more quickly from injuries and the like, but you just don't achieve that kind of pitch economy because you're a juicer.

Agree, I would be beyond surprised with Maddux, his physique didn't change his whole career and he barely threw hard enough to break a pane of glass, just great control and movement.

Swaggs · 01-13-2010, 08:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SackAttack

Guys like Maddux and Glavine didn't have the fireballing stuff going for them that Johnson and Clemens did.

What they did have was probably a combination of veteran pitching wiles and a certain reputation with the umpires. I mean, look at Maddux in his Dodger days - dude would go toss 7 innings of ball and only throw about 65 pitches or so.

You can't do that with steroids. Does it mean he didn't use them? Nah. Might've been a judicious user to try and recover more quickly from injuries and the like, but you just don't achieve that kind of pitch economy because you're a juicer.

Oh, I agree and I doubt that they were using steroids. But still, these guys that pitched ~/+ 200 IP per year for 15 to 20 years, it would not shock me. I mean, come on, if Sammy Sosa can transform into a white guy, I'll believe just about anything that happens in the MLB.

SackAttack · 01-13-2010, 08:54 PM

In fairness, Sammy Sosa was no longer in the MLB when he made like Michael Jackson.

Grammaticus · 01-13-2010, 09:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by KWhit

John Smoltz.

And Tiger Woods in golf - although I am not as big a fan of his now as I was a few months ago.

I think the story is pretty much out. Tiger Woods has been juicing about as often as he can.

On topic,

I would say Nolan Ryan, Pete Rose and Will Clark. I wouldn't be as dissapointed about Ricky Henderson. Although I really like his style of play and I hope he was not using roids.

01-13-2010, 06:06 PM	#4
JonInMiddleGA Hall Of Famer Join Date: Nov 2000 Location: Behind Enemy Lines in Athens, GA	Greg Maddux. Probably Julio Franco Otherwise, I don't know that there's really anybody in baseball over the last 10-20 years that it would have any emotional impact on me, simply aren't very many in that span that I've genuinely like or pull for individually. __________________ "I lit another cigarette. Unless I specifically inform you to the contrary, I am always lighting another cigarette." - from a novel by Martin Amis

01-13-2010, 06:12 PM	#5
path12 Coordinator Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: Seattle, WA	Edgar Martinez. __________________ We have always been at war with Eastasia.

01-13-2010, 06:14 PM	#6
rowech Pro Starter Join Date: Feb 2006	Maddux. Would be disappointed with Larkin and Griffey but neither would surprise me. Last edited by rowech : 01-13-2010 at 06:15 PM.

01-13-2010, 06:23 PM	#9
Eaglesfan27 Hall Of Famer Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: New Jersey	Ryan Howard. From looking at him when he was young, he looks like he was just always a big dude, and I enjoy rooting for him. __________________ Retired GM of the eNFL 2007 Super Bowl Champion Philadelphia Eagles (19-0 record.) GM of the WOOF 2006 Doggie Bowl Champion Atlantic City Gamblers. GM of the IHOF 2019 and 2022 IHOF Bowl Champion Asheville Axemen.

01-13-2010, 06:25 PM	#10
Karlifornia Grizzled Veteran Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: San Jose, CA	Jose Canseco. 40/40 talent. I would be devastated to find out he wasn't doing it clean. __________________ Look into the mind of a crazy man (NSFW) http://www.whitepowerupdate.wordpress.com

01-13-2010, 06:06 PM	#3
Toddzilla Pro Starter Join Date: Jan 2001 Location: Burke, VA	Ryne Sandberg - I'd probably break down and cry.

01-13-2010, 06:20 PM	#7
KWhit Coordinator Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: Conyers GA	John Smoltz. And Tiger Woods in golf - although I am not as big a fan of his now as I was a few months ago.

01-13-2010, 06:25 PM	#11
stevew Hall Of Famer Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: the yo'	Griffey Randy Johnson Jeter

01-13-2010, 06:27 PM	#12
stevew Hall Of Famer Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: the yo'	Dola Mariano Rivera too.

01-13-2010, 06:28 PM	#13
Eaglesfan27 Hall Of Famer Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: New Jersey	Griffey would be my 2nd choice because he is among my favorite players who weren't Phillies. __________________ Retired GM of the eNFL 2007 Super Bowl Champion Philadelphia Eagles (19-0 record.) GM of the WOOF 2006 Doggie Bowl Champion Atlantic City Gamblers. GM of the IHOF 2019 and 2022 IHOF Bowl Champion Asheville Axemen.

01-13-2010, 06:29 PM	#14
Scoobz0202 Pro Rookie Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: Dayton, Ohio	Larkin and Griffey To an extent, Pujols. He is such a freak of nature that I want it to be natural. Bonds... Ramirez... Can Pujols please just be fucking clean.

01-13-2010, 06:30 PM	#15
terpkristin Grizzled Veteran Join Date: May 2003 Location: Ashburn, VA	Wait, does anybody think that Bonds WAS clean? I don't, but maybe I'm missing something.... /tk __________________ GO TERPS! https://www.flickr.com/photos/terpkristin https://twitter.com/terpkristin

01-13-2010, 06:33 PM	#16
sovereignstar Pro Starter Join Date: Feb 2004	Griffey. Won't even mention Joe Mauer. Ain't a chance in hell.

01-13-2010, 06:34 PM	#17
Ronnie Dobbs2 Pro Rookie Join Date: Jun 2012 Location: Bahston Mass	Pedro, though I wouldn't be shocked. Jeter. Bunch of the other guys mentioned like Cal, the Braves. __________________ There's no I in Teamocil, at least not where you'd think

01-13-2010, 06:38 PM	#18
yacovfb H.S. Freshman Team Join Date: Aug 2002	Tony Gwynn

01-13-2010, 06:39 PM	#19
Comey College Starter Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: CT via PA via CA via PA	Frank Thomas. Such a natural talent. __________________

01-13-2010, 06:41 PM	#20
JS19 College Prospect Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: NY	Griffey, big time.

01-13-2010, 06:44 PM	#21
Butter Coordinator Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Dayton, OH	Griffey. __________________ My listening habits

01-13-2010, 06:51 PM	#22
McSweeny College Starter Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Somerville, MA	nobody

01-13-2010, 06:56 PM	#24
lighthousekeeper College Starter Join Date: Oct 2000	Who's the Next Steroid User to Murder Their Family? - Chris Benoit - Deadspin __________________ ...

01-13-2010, 07:08 PM	#25
Swaggs Coordinator Join Date: Oct 2000	It would be sad for me to find out that any notable Pittsburgh Pirates were using during the steroid. Otherwise, it would make their pathetic performance that much worse. __________________ DOWN WITH HATTRICK!!! The RWBL Are you reading In The Bleachers?

01-13-2010, 07:09 PM	#26
larrymcg421 Head Coach Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Georgia	Dale Murphy Greg Maddux Rafael Belliard __________________ Top 10 Songs of the Year 1955-Present (1976 Added) Franchise Portfolio Draft Winner Fictional Character Draft Winner Television Family Draft Winner Build Your Own Hollywood Studio Draft Winner

01-13-2010, 07:21 PM	#28
samifan24 Pro Starter Join Date: Apr 2001 Location: NC	Ken Griffey, Jr. Greg Maddux Cal Ripken, Jr. Tony Gwynn __________________ "You spend a good piece of your life gripping a baseball...and in the end it turns out that it was the other way around all the time." -Jim Bouton

01-13-2010, 07:24 PM	#29
Blackadar Retired Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: Fantasyland	I'd place dollars to donuts that about half the guys in this thread have juiced at least once. Ken Caminiti said that more than half the majors were on something and I never found any reason to doubt him. Canseco estimated it at 85% and while he's a loudmouth, he's never been proven wrong. Face it, anyone who played from the mid 80s through 2003 is suspect.

01-13-2010, 07:25 PM	#30
cougarfreak College Starter Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: Out of Grad School Hell :)	Griffey and Maddux.

01-13-2010, 07:32 PM	#31
RainMaker General Manager Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: Chicago, IL	Greg Maddux.

01-13-2010, 07:36 PM	#32
Young Drachma Dark Cloud Join Date: Apr 2001	John Olerud __________________ Current Dynasty:The Zenith of Professional Basketball Careers (FBPB/FBCB) FBCB / FPB3 Mods

01-13-2010, 07:56 PM	#33
Drake assmaster Join Date: Feb 2001 Location: Bloomington, IN	Yes, Griffey and Frank Thomas. But I already had my worst with Big Papi.

01-13-2010, 07:56 PM	#34
Neuqua Pro Rookie Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: Chicago, Ill	Maddux def. __________________ Our Deepest fear is not that we are inadequate. Our deepest fear is that we are powerful beyond measure. It is our light, not our darkness that most frightens us. We ask ourselves, 'Who am I to be brilliant, gorgeous, talented, fabulous?' Actually, who are you not to be?

01-13-2010, 07:58 PM	#35
Young Drachma Dark Cloud Join Date: Apr 2001	Oh and David Cone.

01-13-2010, 08:19 PM	#38
Big Fo Pro Rookie Join Date: Jan 2005	Maddux Glavine Smoltz Chipper Jones Griffey

01-13-2010, 08:20 PM	#39
SackAttack Head Coach Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: Green Bay, WI	Joe Shlabotnik.

01-13-2010, 08:27 PM	#41
McLovin Mascot Join Date: Feb 2008	Edgar Martinez Larry Walker Gary Carter

01-13-2010, 08:35 PM	#43
Swaggs Coordinator Join Date: Oct 2000	I can understand being disappointed, but I wouldn't be surprised by a lot of the pitchers that have been mentioned. Although guys like Maddux, Glavine, R. Johnson, etc. don't have the physiques of 'roid users, the fact that they were effective pitchers into their 40s makes me a little suspicious of them. __________________ DOWN WITH HATTRICK!!! The RWBL Are you reading In The Bleachers?

01-13-2010, 08:42 PM	#45
Izulde Head Coach Join Date: Sep 2004	Frank Thomas Ken Griffey, Jr. Tony Gwynn Rickey Henderson Any of the 2005 White Sox champion team members, but especially Bobby Jenks, Paul Konerko and Jim Thome. Current White Sox not mentioned above - Alexei Ramirez, Carlos Quentin, Gordon Beckham __________________ 2006 Golden Scribe Nominee 2006 Golden Scribe Winner Best Non-Sport Dynasty: May Our Reign Be Green and Golden (CK Dynasty) Rookie Writer of the Year Dynasty of the Year: May Our Reign Be Green and Golden (CK Dynasty)