2010 Baseball HOF Voting Results

[molson]

Baseball Hall of Fame: Andre Dawson the sole inductee for 2010 - ESPN

Dawson in, Blyleven and Alomar just short

[claphamsa]

wow, just wrong!

[miked]

So I guess people are so sure that the Hawk is clean that they're willing to vote in an OF with 480 HR and a life time AVG of .270 while Juice Mac sits at home?

[claphamsa]

I guess so, I didnt even think he was borderline.....

[spleen1015]

I can't believe Alomar didn't get in. He is the best 2B in the last 70 years.

[Swaggs]

There is just so much wrong with baseball. It is hard to care anymore, but I am never surprised with how wrong any given aspect of MLB can be, at any given time.

[Dr. Sak]

I wonder who voted for David Segui

[molson]

Originally Posted by spleen1015

I can't believe Alomar didn't get in. He is the best 2B in the last 70 years.

He probably lost a handful of votes from some combination of the spitting/HIV/first ballot thing. He's a lock for next year.

I love that Kevin Appier, Pat Hentgen, and David Segui each got a vote.

[SackAttack]

I dunno. I just have a problem with people making the news they're reporting on.

I understand *why* the BBWAA has a ballot. The guys who are covering the team for 20 years are the ones who are probably in the best position to evaluate the candidacies.

It just strikes me as...let's vote against so-and-so and then cluck about the fact that, gosh, he hasn't come clean, so he owes us, the writers, something.

I agreed with it when the AP had their poll removed from the BCS components for the same reason. I just don't know what sort of process exists that would be an improvement over letting the writers vote for the HoF and then get to cluck about why someone didn't get in, or DID get in.

[Mustang]

Originally Posted by Dr. Sak

I wonder who voted for David Segui

He was player of the week, not once, but TWICE.

* 4/21/1996: Montreal (NL)
* 4/5/1998: Seattle (AL)

[Ronnie Dobbs2]

I know I saw Mariotti blathering on about how he didn't vote for Alomar because he isn't a first ballot guy. He'll get in next year. The whole process is silly, but Hawk was a hero growing up so I have no complaints.

[MikeVic]

Pat Hentgen was robbed. Where's Juan Guzman??

[cougarfreak]

Originally Posted by spleen1015

I can't believe Alomar didn't get in. He is the best 2B in the last 70 years.

Joe Morgan and Ryne Sandberg say hi.

[Coffee Warlord]

I wanna know what 2 people voted for Erik Karros.

[Oilers9911]

Originally Posted by cougarfreak

Joe Morgan and Ryne Sandberg say hi.

I would easily put Alomar at or above those guys. For anyone that saw him play in Toronto on a day to day basis, we know just how damn good he was.

Edit: and I am a HUGE Sandberg fan too.

[Young Drachma]

Roberto Alomar was done in by the whole Hirshbeck incident, coupled with the later revelations. He'll get in next year, the Blyleven thing is strange, it's like the campaigners are wearing the ballot box down to where it'll eventually get him in.

Jack Morris had an unusually strong showing, I thought. And yes, Alomar was indeed very, very good at his craft in a way I haven't seen since he left the game, that's for sure.

[stevew]

I wonder if Martinez will ever get in. He has very good numbers, although the fact that he didn't field will probably keep him out for awhile.

[jbergey22]

I was as equally surprised Barry Larkin didnt get any love.

Bert, Larkin, and Alomar I would have voted for.

[cougarfreak]

Originally Posted by Oilers9911

I would easily put Alomar at or above those guys. For anyone that saw him play in Toronto on a day to day basis, we know just how damn good he was.

Edit: and I am a HUGE Sandberg fan too.

Sorry, but there is no way he is easily better than those two. Morgan trumps his ass all over. Back to back MVP's, top 4 MVP's two other times. Hell, Morgan kills him in OPS, SB's, HR's, and OBP. Alomar led the league in two categories his entire career. Morgan did so 13 times. Alomar's a great player, Morgan is a sure fire Hall of Famer, who played in an era that wasn't tremendous offensively.

[Schmidty]

I wish Morris and Trammel would get in someday, but I am starting to think it's not going to happen.

[Crapshoot]

Alomar is one of the top 5 2b of all time (I'd say Morgan and Hornsby are the only two that might be better) - that he didn't get in is a travesty. And Barry Larkin is a HOF SS who was significantly better than either Dawson or Jim Rice (that was a travesty). As for Bert, its just tragic that anyone with a semblance of intelligence can consider Jack Morris a HOF, but not Bert.

[Vince, Pt. II]

Think it is definitely a travesty that Alomar didn't get in, but with all the bad pub around him near the end of his career it doesn't surprise me.

Edgar Martinez is another surprise for me. Sure, he didn't play in the field...but he was the best Designated Hitter ever. Surely that deserves a HoF nod?

[path12]

Edgar will get there eventually. It's going to take a few years to get over the DH thing.

He is my favorite player. But I don't think that carries a whole lot of weight.

[Atocep]

HoF voting is somehow becoming more of a joke. If you're a borderline player it isn't about whether or not you actually deserve to be in, but rather about waiting your turn. Eventually you end up getting close enough that voters just start throwing you on their ballot to see you get in.

Lee Smith and Jack Morris shouldn't be getting anywhere close to the percentages they got while Bert, Alomar, Larkin, Raines, McGwire, and Trammell should all be in already. None of those guys are borderline candidates yet we've now had to watch Jim Rice and Andre Dawson get in back to back years and it looks like Jack Morris will take the Jim Rice path to induction.

[Atocep]

Dola

I'm happy that it appears Bert will finally get in next season, but people aren't voting for him because they think he's a definite Hall of Famer like they should. They're voting on him because he's been on the ballot so long and he's as close as he is to getting in.

[Danny]

Originally Posted by Atocep

HoF voting is somehow becoming more of a joke. If you're a borderline player it isn't about whether or not you actually deserve to be in, but rather about waiting your turn. Eventually you end up getting close enough that voters just start throwing you on their ballot to see you get in.

Lee Smith and Jack Morris shouldn't be getting anywhere close to the percentages they got while Bert, Alomar, Larkin, Raines, McGwire, and Trammell should all be in already. None of those guys are borderline candidates yet we've now had to watch Jim Rice and Andre Dawson get in back to back years and it looks like Jack Morris will take the Jim Rice path to induction.

Yep and only 142 years until David Segui gets in!

[FBPro]

Originally Posted by spleen1015

I can't believe Alomar didn't get in. He is the best 2B in the last 70 years.

Agreed, thought he was a lock.

[JS19]

Being such a baseball fan, it's a shame watching these Hall of Fame votes, in my opinion. I feel too many guys get in. Sure, a lot of these guys are great players, but I think the Hall of Fame should be held for iconic figures of the game. Okay, maybe iconic is a bit of a stretch, but when I think about Craig Biggio eventually being a Hall of Famer, it makes me think the system just isn't working. Sure, he has his 3,000 hits and was a very good hard nosed player, but to me, he just doesn't fall into the "best of the best" category. I'm not singling him out, he's just an example that comes to mind. It seems as though these writer's just vote someone in on a yr by yr basis just for the sake of voting someone in.

[jbergey22]

Originally Posted by JS19

Being such a baseball fan, it's a shame watching these Hall of Fame votes, in my opinion. I feel too many guys get in. Sure, a lot of these guys are great players, but I think the Hall of Fame should be held for iconic figures of the game. Okay, maybe iconic is a bit of a stretch, but when I think about Craig Biggio eventually being a Hall of Famer, it makes me think the system just isn't working. Sure, he has his 3,000 hits and was a very good hard nosed player, but to me, he just doesn't fall into the "best of the best" category. I'm not singling him out, he's just an example that comes to mind. It seems as though these writer's just vote someone in on a yr by yr basis just for the sake of voting someone in.

I agree.

They put Jim Rice in now they put Andre Dawson in which opens the door for so many other outfielders that were maybe top 5-10 OFs of their time but certainly not one of the 1-3 best. I dont even think Dawson was the best OF on his team most years.(Tim Raines)

I basically try to think of the 1 or 2 best at their position when they played and if they were I lean towards them deserving to be in. This year Alomar and Larkin passed that test for me anyway.

[cougarfreak]

Originally Posted by JS19

Being such a baseball fan, it's a shame watching these Hall of Fame votes, in my opinion. I feel too many guys get in. Sure, a lot of these guys are great players, but I think the Hall of Fame should be held for iconic figures of the game. Okay, maybe iconic is a bit of a stretch, but when I think about Craig Biggio eventually being a Hall of Famer, it makes me think the system just isn't working. Sure, he has his 3,000 hits and was a very good hard nosed player, but to me, he just doesn't fall into the "best of the best" category. I'm not singling him out, he's just an example that comes to mind. It seems as though these writer's just vote someone in on a yr by yr basis just for the sake of voting someone in.

I agree. I'm a huge Reds fan, and I don't think Larkin should get in. Heck, he missed something like 25% of the games he could have played.

[Maple Leafs]

Has Mariotti masturbated out a column about his vote yet?

[Dr. Sak]

Originally Posted by Maple Leafs

Has Mariotti masturbated out a column about his vote yet?

I'm waiting for what the RWBInsider has to say.

[Samdari]

Originally Posted by cougarfreak

Joe Morgan and Ryne Sandberg say hi.

Splitting hairs, though. Being the 3rd best 2B in the past 70 years should be enough to get into the HoF.

[ISiddiqui]

I think Alomar isn't as good as Morgan, but definitely better than Sandberg. He even deserves the whole "first ballot" thing. Blyleven not getting in again makes me sad, but he picked up a lot of votes and it seems like he will get in shortly.

[Ronnie Dobbs2]

Definitely better than Sandberg? Looks pretty even to me.

[cougarfreak]

Originally Posted by Samdari

Splitting hairs, though. Being the 3rd best 2B in the past 70 years should be enough to get into the HoF.

I don't disagree, if you do the whole first ballot thing, I think the only reason he's not on it is his spitting incident. And I can't argue there. That was a huge embarrassment, and a big slap in the face to the game. It doesn't surprise me he didn't make it in on the first try.

[larrymcg421]

Erm, Alomar deserved to be in the HOF, but how the hell can anyone claim he was better than Joe Morgan. It's not even close, IMO.

[sterlingice]

Originally Posted by jbergey22

I was as equally surprised Barry Larkin didnt get any love.

Bert, Larkin, and Alomar I would have voted for.

I'm guessing all 3 are in next year. I'm guessing Larkin and Alomar will get a big boost from the "he's not a first ballot" guys voting for them in their 2nd year.

SI

[sterlingice]

Originally Posted by JS19

Being such a baseball fan, it's a shame watching these Hall of Fame votes, in my opinion. I feel too many guys get in. Sure, a lot of these guys are great players, but I think the Hall of Fame should be held for iconic figures of the game. Okay, maybe iconic is a bit of a stretch, but when I think about Craig Biggio eventually being a Hall of Famer, it makes me think the system just isn't working. Sure, he has his 3,000 hits and was a very good hard nosed player, but to me, he just doesn't fall into the "best of the best" category. I'm not singling him out, he's just an example that comes to mind. It seems as though these writer's just vote someone in on a yr by yr basis just for the sake of voting someone in.

That's a really interesting name, considering what Bill James wrote about him in the historical abstract as one of the best players ever (tho he has soured on him a bit in recent years because Biggio stuck around way too long).

SI

[molson]

Originally Posted by sterlingice

That's a really interesting name, considering what Bill James wrote about him in the historical abstract as one of the best players ever (tho he has soured on him a bit in recent years because Biggio stuck around way too long).

SI

Biggio is the right in the middle of the differing opinions of what the HOF is supposed to be.

If the HOF is supposed to be purely about a player's on-field accomplishments, Biggio should definitely get in.

But it's pretty clear that the HOF induction criteria also include an element of "fame". Winning awards, being a part of a World Series team, being highly visible help a lot.

I don't really have a problem with either way - Biggio doesn't scream HOF to me, so I must lean towards the 2nd kind of criteria. It's a private museum, I'm content with it being filled with big, memorable, important names in the history of baseball. Biggio isn't one of those.

Maybe Bill James can start his own HOF (or really, a "Hall of Excellence", rather than fame.)

[Ramzavail]

I didn't want to believe it either, but the HOF monitor says Alomar trumps Morgan, big time.

hxxp://www.baseball-reference.com/leaders/hof_monitor.shtml

I think what hurts Morgan (in total) are the later years.

[Young Drachma]

Biggio was a converted catcher who constantly reinvented himself and managed to get 3000 hits in the process. A catcher who can steal bases, converted to freakin' center field and then to second base? Competently? The .281 average isn't much to yip about, but four gold gloves isn't bad either.

That said, he's a high school baseball coach now. How's that to be on a team with a legend like that. That'd be pretty awesome.

[Swaggs]

Originally Posted by jbergey22

I agree.

They put Jim Rice in now they put Andre Dawson in which opens the door for so many other outfielders that were maybe top 5-10 OFs of their time but certainly not one of the 1-3 best. I dont even think Dawson was the best OF on his team most years.(Tim Raines)

I think the point about outfielders needs more scrutiny by the sportswriters. Putting Rice and Dawson in opens the door for about a dozen other short-term great or long-term good outfielders to be included in the Hall of Fame.

Dave Parker, Dale Murphy, Larry Walker, Albert Belle, Bernie Williams, Juan Gonzalez, Tim Raines, Dick Allen and the active guys like Vlad Guerrero and Sheffield (he's pretty deserving, in my opinion, but it is hard to look at his career and think that he couldn't have been much, much better) all deserve serious consideration at this point.

[dawgfan]

Originally Posted by Dark Cloud

Biggio was a converted catcher who constantly reinvented himself and managed to get 3000 hits in the process. A catcher who can steal bases, converted to freakin' center field and then to second base? Competently? The .281 average isn't much to yip about, but four gold gloves isn't bad either.

It's not just the .281 average - he also had the high walk rate and all the HBP pushing his OBP to .363 and had enough power with all those doubles to post a .433 SLG, making for a .796 OPS and a career 111 OPS+.

Beyond that, he also excelled in things buried in the stat sheets like avoiding double plays and his baserunning - not just stealing bases, but advancing on grounders and fly balls.

Biggio may not have been a really "famous" player, but his on-field accomplishments most certainly qualify him.

[sposfan]

I'm not sure why everyone is so surprised at the voting. Aren't these the same "students of the game" that gave Rafael Palmeiro a Gold Glove back in 1999 when he played TWENTY EIGHT GAMES!?!?!?!!?

The fact that the newspaper writers refuse to allow announcers and broadcasters like Vin Scully vote, is just another mark in their favor.

What a crock.

[dawgfan]

Originally Posted by Swaggs

I think the point about outfielders needs more scrutiny by the sportswriters. Putting Rice and Dawson in opens the door for about a dozen other short-term great or long-term good outfielders to be included in the Hall of Fame.

Dave Parker, Dale Murphy, Larry Walker, Albert Belle, Bernie Williams, Juan Gonzalez, Tim Raines, Dick Allen and the active guys like Vlad Guerrero and Sheffield (he's pretty deserving, in my opinion, but it is hard to look at his career and think that he couldn't have been much, much better) all deserve serious consideration at this point.

Dawson was a bad choice. Yeah, he had a lot of power, he was fast, had the great arm, etc. - but he made an out 67.7% of the time he came to the plate. His OBP is a new low for HOF OF's, and by a wide margin. I'm sorry, but he just didn't do enough in other areas to make up for this major flaw.

I'll be really curious to see if those writers that gave Dawson the benefit of the doubt for his injuries for playing so many years on that Montreal turf will do the same thing for Edgar Martinez - he was a pretty good 3B to start his career, and was only moved to DH because he developed some hamstring problems and had a random accident playing 1B in a late Spring Training game one year. With decent options at 3B and 1B, the M's decided to protect Edgar and move him to DH. Had he been with a NL team, he would've played 1B, and probably would've been just fine as a fielder there too.

[Chief Rum]

Originally Posted by dawgfan

Beyond that, he also excelled in things buried in the stat sheets like avoiding double plays and his baserunning - not just stealing bases, but advancing on grounders and fly balls.

Wait a sec... this sounds suspiciously like something sabremetricians usually poo poo, while Angels fans applaud it. Be careful, dawg, Bill James might pull your Sabre Card.

[Ronnie Dobbs2]

Even if Martinez played a shitty 1B somewhere, he would definitely be in.

[dawgfan]

Originally Posted by Chief Rum

Wait a sec... this sounds suspiciously like something sabremetricians usually poo poo, while Angels fans applaud it. Be careful, dawg, Bill James might pull your Sabre Card.

As a matter of fact, it was Bill James that pointed all of this stuff in his Historical Baseball Abstract, so no. Because this is stuff that can be measured - it's just stuff that most fans don't spend a lot of time looking at.

[dawgfan]

Originally Posted by Ronnie Dobbs2

Even if Martinez played a shitty 1B somewhere, he would definitely be in.

And what really gets me is what if he had played in the NL, but been a horrid 1B but still hit like he did with Seattle? He would've actually not provided as much value to his team - as a DH, Martinez's value came solely from his bat, and was neutral as a defender, not hurting or helping his team.

But many more voters would've voted for him, because he played the field...