Is Avatar going to be a Battle for Terra Rip-Off?

[NewIdentity]

It is funny, every time I see an add for Avatar I can not but help to think of the movie Battle for Terra. It looks like these 2 movies have the exact same storyline. But then again, I know so very little about Avatar, other than the commercials I have seen, everywhere.

Battle for Terra

If you have not seen Battle for Terra, it is not that bad of an animated movie with a lot of semi big names in it.


I caught it at Red Box on DVD last month, so I didn't see it at theaters last Summer when it was shown in 3D.

[chadritt]

Similar, but from what I know its basically "Dances with Wolves" in space.

[JPhillips]

No, it's the greatest adventure of all time.

[NewIdentity]

Personally, I think Avatar will go down as the Biggest Flop of All Time.

[Honolulu_Blue]

Similar, but from what I know its basically "Ferngully" in space.

I want this movie to be good. I love great sci-fi films and Cameron will always have a honored place thanks to the glory that is "Aliens" and "Terminator" (two of my favorite movies of all time) and, to a lesser extent, "Terminator 2". Sadly, I haven't seen anything from any of the various trailers or commercials that makes me believe that this movie will be all that. I hope it is, but I am not necessarily hopeful.

[Coffee Warlord]

C'mon. It's a Blizzard promotional movie.

Night Elves vs Terrans.

[cuervo72]

I'm boycotting in protest of them stealing the title from the animated series.

[Antmeister]

Is it just me, because I don't see as many similarities. One movie shows a more advanced civilization than the other. I thought Avatar was about using a military campaign to get valuable resources from a land in which another people in inhabiting while the other looks like humans looking for another home.

[Matthean]

Originally Posted by Antmeister

Is it just me, because I don't see as many similarities. One movie shows a more advanced civilization than the other. I thought Avatar was about using a military campaign to get valuable resources from a land in which another people in inhabiting while the other looks like humans looking for another home.

Nope, you are correct. What the humans do is the same, but why they do it is for completely different reasons.

[cthomer5000]

Cameron has been working on Avatar for like 15 years, IIRC - so i doubt his lifting much from movies that were released 2 years ago.

And yeah, seems like a fairly generic story set in a 'new' environment.

[JediKooter]

I think Cameron has been accused of plagiarism before. I think it was for the original Terminator, but, I'm not 100% certain on that.

[Lathum]

Originally Posted by NewIdentity

Personally, I think Avatar will go down as the Biggest Flop of All Time.

I take it you have no children ages 8-12 in your life? My niece and nephews really want to see it.

[Cringer]

Originally Posted by cuervo72

I'm boycotting in protest of them stealing the title from the animated series.

Originally Posted by Lathum

I take it you have no children ages 8-12 in your life? My niece and nephews really want to see it.

And my 10 year old daughter is annoyed with it for the reason cuervo is.

[DanGarion]

Originally Posted by JediKooter

I think Cameron has been accused of plagiarism before. I think it was for the original Terminator, but, I'm not 100% certain on that.

No it was Titanic...

[Groundhog]

I saw the preview for Avatar the other week when I saw the terrible 2012. Talk about cgi overload, makes the latest 3 Star Wars movies look scaled back in comparison. I don't know, just doesn't look like a terribly good or original movie to me, but I'll give it a shot because I'm a sci-fi geek.

[JediKooter]

Originally Posted by DanGarion

No it was Titanic...

Haha, nice!

[stevew]

Originally Posted by cuervo72

I'm boycotting in protest of them stealing the title from the animated series.

Yeah. I'm annoyed that they have to call the avatar movie "The Last airbender". There were so many other similar words. Just seems like a bad idea to use ""Avatar". Then again if it has been in the works for 15 years I guess it predates the Cartoon.

[NewIdentity]

Originally Posted by Lathum

I take it you have no children ages 8-12 in your life? My niece and nephews really want to see it.

No, I am referring to all the talk about this movie being bigger than Titanic? No offense, but I don't think the 8-12 year old market put Titanic in the record books back then.

It was people like me who went and saw Titanic 4 times, with 4 different girls, and I got LUCKY ALL 4 times afterwards!!! It is all these repeat viewings by people like me that kept Titanic #1 at the box office forever.

And, I just don't see this happening with Avatar.

[Honolulu_Blue]

Originally Posted by NewIdentity

No, I am referring to all the talk about this movie being bigger than Titanic? No offense, but I don't think the 8-12 year old market put Titanic in the record books back then.

It was people like me who went and saw Titanic 4 times, with 4 different girls, and I got LUCKY ALL 4 times afterwards!!! It is all these repeat viewings by people like me that kept Titanic #1 at the box office forever.

And, I just don't see this happening with Avatar.

I can't think anyone actually believes that Avatar will be "bigger than Titanic." Where have you heard that?

I know the movie was in development for like 15 years and is likely the most expensive movie ever made, but I don't think anyone expects it to be anywhere near Titanic in terms of box office.

I think they expect "Avatar" will be a blockbuster, but not quite the phenomenon that Titanic was. Though, I think even more modest expectations for "Avatar" will be a bit of a reach.

[Sgran]

Originally Posted by NewIdentity

It was people like me who went and saw Titanic 4 times, with 4 different girls, and I got LUCKY ALL 4 times afterwards!!! It is all these repeat viewings by people like me that kept Titanic #1 at the box office forever.

And, I just don't see this happening with Avatar.

Newidentity has dropped the gauntlet. Who at FOFC can score 4 separate times after the movie Avatar?

[Honolulu_Blue]

Originally Posted by Sgran

Newidentity has dropped the gauntlet. Who at FOFC can score 4 separate times after the movie Avatar?

I'd give it a go, but I don't think I could get my wife to see this movie even once.

[Samdari]

Originally Posted by Sgran

Newidentity has dropped the gauntlet. Who at FOFC can score 4 separate times after the movie Avatar?

There needs to be a scoring curve (pun intended) for us married guys. Can we score 4 times in the time Avatar is in wide release?

[cuervo72]

Originally Posted by Samdari

There needs to be a scoring curve (pun intended) for us married guys. Can we score 4 times in the time between Avatar and James Cameron's next release?

Fixed for some of us married guys.

[Kodos]

Originally Posted by JediKooter

I think Cameron has been accused of plagiarism before. I think it was for the original Terminator, but, I'm not 100% certain on that.

Yeah, I think much of the Terminator movies was lifted from Short Circuit. The tagline was the giveaway: T1000 is Alive!

[Kodos]

Originally Posted by Sgran

Newidentity has dropped the gauntlet. Who at FOFC can score 4 separate times after the movie Avatar?

Tiger Woods is on the case!

[sterlingice]

Shoot- I have no expectations on the plot. It looks cheesy and bad, but I want to see it just for the effects since it's supposedly more than half filmed on a sound stage but the ads look pretty seemless in terms of trying to figure out what's real and what isn't.

SI

[Lathum]

Originally Posted by NewIdentity

No, I am referring to all the talk about this movie being bigger than Titanic? No offense, but I don't think the 8-12 year old market put Titanic in the record books back then.

How is the movie a flop if it isn't as successful as Titanic? Not really sure what your definition of success is exactly. Now I realize the movie is going to cost close to 300 mil to make and it may not do those kind of box office numbers, but I think it could do close.

As far as 8-12 year old kids driving ticket sales they are a huge market. Look at some of the top grossing films over the last few years

2007- Shrek the 3rd- second grossing 322 mil
Alvin and the Chipmunks- ninth grossing 217 mil
Rattattoullie- eleventh grossing 206 mil

2008- Wallee- fifth grossing 223 Mil
Kung Fu Panda- sixth grossing 215 mil
Madagasgar 2- eigth grossing 193 mil

2009- Up- third- 293 mil
Monsters vs. Aliens- seventh- 198 mil

[NewIdentity]

Originally Posted by Lathum

2007- Shrek the 3rd- second grossing 322 mil
Alvin and the Chipmunks- ninth grossing 217 mil
Rattattoullie- eleventh grossing 206 mil

2008- Wallee- fifth grossing 223 Mil
Kung Fu Panda- sixth grossing 215 mil
Madagasgar 2- eigth grossing 193 mil

2009- Up- third- 293 mil
Monsters vs. Aliens- seventh- 198 mil

And, if these movies cost over $300 million to make only 1 of them would have barely made a profit; The rest would have all lost money.

Most movies that lose money are considered flops.


UPDATE: I just read that according to The New York Times, Avatar cost $500 million to make.

[Ronnie Dobbs2]

Originally Posted by NewIdentity

And, if these movies cost over $300 million to make only 1 of them would have barely made a profit; The rest would have all lost money.

Most movies that lose money are considered flops.

You have to consider the whole picture, the film's budget and advertising costs vs. box office (what Lathum showed) plus DVD sales, merchandising, broadcast rights, etc.

[RendeR]

I personally can't wait to see this movie. I'm hoping to see it opening night.

Things I know:

Cameron is a damned good director and has a keen eye for making a storyline fit into an imagery that people will lose themselves in. (Aliens, terminator, titanic)

Its a science fiction story: most sci fi geeks will see this at least once, most probably 2-3 times.

Its a Love Story: Even with the sci-fi bent, there is a boy girl interaction that will draw some chick-flick lovers

Its an Us vs Them story: Action movie for the win?

The movie is 2.5 hours long, a bargain movie even for full price theaters.


These are all positives in my book. Kids will love this for the animation and the fantastical settings and creatures and fight scenes. Adults will enjoy it because Cameron doesn't make really bad movies, he makes Movies with stories adults can get in to.

I think Avatar will do really well.

[NewIdentity]

Originally Posted by Ronnie Dobbs2

You have to consider the whole picture, the film's budget and advertising costs vs. box office (what Lathum showed) plus DVD sales, merchandising, broadcast rights, etc.

So, if you start with a $500 million dollar budget and ad advertising, distribution, and interest on all this debt what do you think you are looking at for a break even point? I would guess around $800 million just to break even. But, maybe that $500 million dollar budget reported from the NY Times includes the interest?


I wonder if all this debt will mean the movie will come out on DVD quicker to try to cut down on the interest being earned?

[Lathum]

Originally Posted by Ronnie Dobbs2

You have to consider the whole picture, the film's budget and advertising costs vs. box office (what Lathum showed) plus DVD sales, merchandising, broadcast rights, etc.

Not to mention international box office.

And I was just responding the the statement about kids making a movie a success.

[stevew]

Originally Posted by RendeR

I personally can't wait to see this movie. I'm hoping to see it opening night.

Things I know:

Cameron is a damned good director and has a keen eye for making a storyline fit into an imagery that people will lose themselves in. (Aliens, terminator, titanic)

Its a science fiction story: most sci fi geeks will see this at least once, most probably 2-3 times.

Its a Love Story: Even with the sci-fi bent, there is a boy girl interaction that will draw some chick-flick lovers

Its an Us vs Them story: Action movie for the win?

The movie is 2.5 hours long, a bargain movie even for full price theaters.


These are all positives in my book. Kids will love this for the animation and the fantastical settings and creatures and fight scenes. Adults will enjoy it because Cameron doesn't make really bad movies, he makes Movies with stories adults can get in to.

I think Avatar will do really well.

Yeah, pretty much mirrors my thoughts as well.

[Honolulu_Blue]

Originally Posted by RendeR

I personally can't wait to see this movie. I'm hoping to see it opening night.

Things I know:

Cameron is a damned good director and has a keen eye for making a storyline fit into an imagery that people will lose themselves in. (Aliens, terminator, titanic)...

Adults will enjoy it because Cameron doesn't make really bad movies, he makes Movies with stories adults can get in to.

I think Avatar will do really well.

I think you may be under estimating the amount of "Titanic" backlash there may still exist towards Cameron. I think it's still decently strong (and largely undeserved). "Terminator 2" was released almost 20 years ago, so it's been a long, long time since Cameron has made a sci-fi movie.

I hope it's good. I'd like it to do well, especially since it's an original sci-fi flick and those are pretty rare nowadays.

[Chief Rum]

As much as everyone deservedly mentions Aliens, The Terminator movies and Titanic when talking about Cameron, my favorite Cameron movie is still The Abyss (theater version).

I plan to check this one out early in its release period.

[Honolulu_Blue]

Originally Posted by Chief Rum

As much as everyone deservedly mentions Aliens, The Terminator movies and Titanic when talking about Cameron, my favorite Cameron movie is still The Abyss (theater version).

I plan to check this one out early in its release period.

Weird. Not that your favorite movie of Cameron's is The Abyss, but that you some how like the theatrical version more than the vastly superior, actually makes sense and puts the aliens thing into context and makes the presence of the aliens meaningful and not just random, director's cut.

I was always a bit lukewarm on The Abyss until I saw the director's cut.

[Chief Rum]

Originally Posted by Honolulu_Blue

Weird. Not that your favorite movie of Cameron's is The Abyss, but that you some how like the theatrical version more than the vastly superior, actually makes sense and puts the aliens thing into context and makes the presence of the aliens meaningful and not just random, director's cut.

I was always a bit lukewarm on The Abyss until I saw the director's cut.

I did like how the director's cut more explained things, but what I loved about the theater version was the wonder of it all, the mystery, the feel good ending. IMO, the director's version cut the heart out of the movie, even though I appreciated the message being sent.

[Honolulu_Blue]

Originally Posted by Chief Rum

I did like how the director's cut more explained things, but what I loved about the theater version was the wonder of it all, the mystery, the feel good ending. IMO, the director's version cut the heart out of the movie, even though I appreciated the message being sent.

Huh. I never got the impression that it cut the heart out. I thought it kept the heart soundly intact and, in fact, made the message all the more powerful: Bud's single act of sacrifice was enough to convince the aliens -- who despite just looking cute, glittery and pretty, were actually on the verge of wiping humanity off the planet -- to give humanity a second chance and reveal themselves.

Maybe I would have to watch them back-to-back to see if my memory is serving me correctly.

[Chief Rum]

Originally Posted by Honolulu_Blue

Huh. I never got the impression that it cut the heart out. I thought it kept the heart soundly intact and, in fact, made the message all the more powerful: Bud's single act of sacrifice was enough to convince the aliens -- who despite just looking cute, glittery and pretty, were actually on the verge of wiping humanity off the planet -- to give humanity a second chance and reveal themselves.

Maybe I would have to watch them back-to-back to see if my memory is serving me correctly.

It's really mostly about the mystery and wonder of what happens at the end (the aliens saving Bud), and the feel good ending as a result. This works great with altruistic, loving aliens. Not so much with "stop fighting or we'll wipe you from the planet" aliens.

[JediKooter]

Originally Posted by Kodos

Yeah, I think much of the Terminator movies was lifted from Short Circuit. The tagline was the giveaway: T1000 is Alive!

Haha! "I need your clothes, your boots...oh!!! and that potted plant!!!!!"

[Honolulu_Blue]

Originally Posted by Chief Rum

It's really mostly about the mystery and wonder of what happens at the end (the aliens saving Bud), and the feel good ending as a result. This works great with altruistic, loving aliens. Not so much with "stop fighting or we'll wipe you from the planet" aliens.

I guess I just have an opposite view of it then. I really liked the fact that the aliens had a bit of an edge to them, but were still swayed on some personal level by Bud's act of heroism and sacrifice. In a way, it's very similar to the ending of Watchmen, that despite how horrible humanity is and can be as a collective it is the capacity of the individual or the miracle/potential of humanity on an individual level that makes it worth saving.

[stevew]

Originally Posted by NewIdentity

Personally, I think Avatar will go down as the Biggest Flop of All Time.

The 'Avatar Knows Your Name" dolls might not be selling well. But the movie seems to be doing okay.

[Groundhog]

Originally Posted by Groundhog

I saw the preview for Avatar the other week when I saw the terrible 2012. Talk about cgi overload, makes the latest 3 Star Wars movies look scaled back in comparison. I don't know, just doesn't look like a terribly good or original movie to me, but I'll give it a shot because I'm a sci-fi geek.

In my defense, the preview I saw really did not do the movie justice at all.