1st and Ten Football - Tabletop game - Has anyone played it?

[bossfan2000]

Thanks to a thread on this board a couple of months ago about table top sports gaming, i found some good forum/sites. I ran across a FREE tabletop football game called 1st and Ten. You can use Excel to help play the game, and it comes with all of the NFL seasons and lots of college teams too.

I spent a couple hours over the weekend reading the rules, and though the first read made the game sound complicated, a second read made me think it actually sounds pretty cool. It has a solo defense system built in so you can play by yourself (though the system does adjust itself based on the down, yardage, and offense type of the team you are playing)..

I hope to play my first game tonight or tomorrow, but was wondering if anyone here had played it. If so, what do you think? From the other forums, it sounds statistically really accurate..but wanted someone opinions from the folks here.

Here is a link to the website for the game...

http://www.tabletopsportsgames.homes...ortsGames.html

-jeff

[Wolfpack]

The guy who created that game is actually working with someone to develop a computer version based on that game called, appropriately enough, "Second and Ten". I think he'll be charging for that release, though, rather than giving it away.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by bossfan2000

Thanks to a thread on this board a couple of months ago about table top sports gaming, i found some good forum/sites. I ran across a FREE tabletop football game called 1st and Ten. You can use Excel to help play the game, and it comes with all of the NFL seasons and lots of college teams too.

I spent a couple hours over the weekend reading the rules, and though the first read made the game sound complicated, a second read made me think it actually sounds pretty cool. It has a solo defense system built in so you can play by yourself (though the system does adjust itself based on the down, yardage, and offense type of the team you are playing)..

I hope to play my first game tonight or tomorrow, but was wondering if anyone here had played it. If so, what do you think? From the other forums, it sounds statistically really accurate..but wanted someone opinions from the folks here.

Here is a link to the website for the game...

http://www.tabletopsportsgames.homes...ortsGames.html

-jeff

I haven't played it, although I know it's very highly regarded by those who do.
Just too damned complicated for me, I never came close to understanding it.

BTW, you might be interested to know that Second and Ten was released earlier this week. That's the computer translation of the same engine (with a few tweaks).
You should be able to find it at: http://www.roogames.co.uk/

Be forewarned, it's awfully pricey IMO.

[bossfan2000]

yeah, i've read about the computer version...meant to mention it just got released yesterday. They are supposed to release a demo i believe. i think the website is roogames.co.uk, but not sure.

After trying Puresim, FOF, OOTP, i think i have come to the conclusion that i really like rolling the dice and holding the cards when i play the sports games. Having the computer do everything takes something out of the enjoyment for me.

Thanks to the thread here a couple months ago, i also found Replay Baseball..and i gotta say it blows Strat-o-matic out of the water (to me, anyway)..

-jeff

[JonInMiddleGA]

FWIW, if you're okay with the complexity of 1st&10, be sure to check out Above the Rim basketball from (IIRC) the same developer. Arguably, it may be even more highly regarded than its football counterpart.

[SirFozzie]

Try Second Season by Plaay games (www.plaay.com) Really fun tabletop football and dice game

(I have their football and roller derby games)

[bossfan2000]

Originally Posted by SirFozzie

Try Second Season by Plaay games (www.plaay.com) Really fun tabletop football and dice game

(I have their football and roller derby games)

Thanks Sir Fozzie. I had read about that one and the other game by 4th Street software too. I was trying to decide which of the 3 to try. For now, I want to try 1st and Ten since its free and has lot of easily available teams.

How does Second Season play solitaire? Is there a defensive scheme for solo built in, so that you just pick the offensive plays for each team? Also, from checking the website yesterday, it seems like each player is only rated in 2 categories, with just a range of 3 for each rating (0,1,2). I was wondering how it could product realistic results?

I've read that 4th Street is good, but even more compicated then 1st and Ten..

thanks for the discussion and pointers, too, btw...

-jeff

[vtbub]

ATR is an excellent game and IMHO much easier than FaT.

I taught myself FaT, and while probably not playing 100% correctly, it is quite enjoyable and seems realistic.

[threadjack] Played the first two games of the NBA finals using Above the Rim, and the Pistons crusied easily.

[bossfan2000]

Originally Posted by vtbub

ATR is an excellent game and IMHO much easier than FaT.

I taught myself FaT, and while probably not playing 100% correctly, it is quite enjoyable and seems realistic.

[threadjack] Played the first two games of the NBA finals using Above the Rim, and the Pistons crusied easily.

Have you tried AtR with any of the college teams? I'm not a huge basketball fan, but i might try it when the season rolls around...i've heard lots of good stuff about it..

-j

[vtbub]

Yes, I have. I think you really need to know college hoops and teams to get the best sense of it playing like real life.

I haven't played the women's version yet.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by SirFozzie

(I have their football and roller derby games)

Roller Rumble rocks.

[SirFozzie]

Originally Posted by bossfan2000

How does Second Season play solitaire? Is there a defensive scheme for solo built in, so that you just pick the offensive plays for each team? Also, from checking the website yesterday, it seems like each player is only rated in 2 categories, with just a range of 3 for each rating (0,1,2). I was wondering how it could product realistic results?

Defensive system: There's a variant out there with an automated defense playcall system, but it's not really standard

There's really a range of ratings: 0+, 1, 1-, 1+ 2, 2- for both rushing and passing..

0=Inferior
1= Average
2= Superior

The - and +'s come into play when a team enters the opposing side of the field.. and either add one or subtract one to the rating.... (useful for teams that generate a lot of yardage, but seem to choke when points are on the line..)

When you determine the play (say you chose a Inside Run, and the Defense Roll indicated a blitz), the roll determines the "key player" for a play. You then compare their rating to the one mentioned in the play, and depending on the rating, apply the result.

For example (I don't have the play book with me here).. Inside Run vs Blitz defense, and the roll is 36 (it's two d6, with one high, one low)

36.. The Key Player is the Left Guard.. if he has a run rating of 2.. play is "Guard seals off rusher, Running back surges through line for 6 yds", while if he was just a 1 or a 0.. play would be "Running back disappears into the line, just gets back to the line of scrimmage"

Receivers and rushers are rated both on # of allowed carries/catches per game, and average yards as well..

Game plays very quickly, and I like it.. I got the XFL set for shits and giggles

[SirFozzie]

Originally Posted by JonInMiddleGA

Roller Rumble rocks.

Agreed. The Derby still lives with Roller Rumble.. which version do you prefer.. the old school style, or the "RollerJam" high scoring version?

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by SirFozzie

Agreed. The Derby still lives with Roller Rumble.. which version do you prefer.. the old school style, or the "RollerJam" high scoring version?

Old School baby, old school all the way.
(Gee, I bet that's a real shocker coming from me, huh? )

The only thing that always seems to strike me as being "wrong" is the reduced value of pivots in the FAC system. So I often swing pivots through the jammer rotation, just to try to give them some additional impact.

[SirFozzie]

One thing I do to emphasize pivots is that I created a system to do match races to "break the tie" in games that end tied.. and the pivots are the ones who do it.. the pivot also takes the last jam for any period.

[sabotai]

1st And Ten is one of those games I've been waiting to get into. Above the Rim too. I just haven't had time. Mainly because I'm looking for weays to do historic recreations, and FOF and TPF obviously wouldn't work.

(First things first, I tried playing the games on my PC, but it's a pain to keep switching between different Word documents and what-not. I need a printer. )

[mattwakeman]

Second and ten demo is now available at http://www.roogames.co.uk/SATDemo.html

[PsychoCop]

can you guys give additional links to where i can download these tabletop games? really looking to get into these...

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by PsychoCop

can you guys give additional links to where i can download these tabletop games? really looking to get into these...

Some of these are freebies that you can d'load, others are only available for purchase, but let's see what I can do here:

First and Ten & Above the Rim are freebies, can both be d'loaded from the designer's website at http://www.tabletopsportsgames.homes...ortsGames.html

You'll find the new retail computer version of FAT, called Second and Ten, at
http://www.roogames.co.uk\sat.html/
(be sure to check out the other computer products from Roogames)

Roller Rumble, Second Season, Face To the Mat (pro wrestling) are all retail games available at www.plaay.com

That's most of the ones mentioned in this thread so far.

As for others games in the genre ...

You'll find more free downloads than you could play in a lifetime at
http://www.tabletop-sports.com/index.php
There's also a wide assortment of add-ons, user mods, etc. for retail tabletop sports games on the site as well. Just hit the "Downloads" section & have a blast (just make sure you're printer is well stocked on ink )

For hockey and golf, I highly recommend Decisive Action Sports
http://www.sports-only.com/users/decisivegames/

There's tennis, soccer, golf, and sumo wrestling for sale at
http://www.timetravelgames.com/

There's football, baseball, basketball, horse racing for sale at
http://www.members.tripod.com/newaction/

I also highly recommend a couple of forums for discussion, info, reviews, dynasty reports, etc
http://forums.delphiforums.com/seasonspast/start
http://forums.delphiforums.com/tabletopsports/start

Then there's more links than you can shake a stick at to be found at
http://www.geocities.com/garyco_77521/simlinks.html

That ought to get you started pretty well (especially the downloads section at Jeff Downey's site), any specific sports, questions, etc., just throw 'em out there & we can probably find you an answer.

[bossfan2000]

I took a shot at playing First and Ten last night. I was really slow, because i was reading the instructions before and after every play to make sure i got everything right. I only played 5 minutes of game time (2003 Pitt at 2003 Atlanta). Problem was i was watching the Braves lose while trying to play..think I spend 90 minutes on those 5 minutes of the 1st qtr. I know a full game can be played in around 2hrs or so, once the rules are learned..but its tough while you are still figuring things out.

I do think its gonna be a lot of fun once i get the hang of it. I would recommend the game from the little bit i know so far. but, be prepared to invest some time up front getting the hang of it.

I'm just thankful someone started that tabletop thread a couple months ago..i didnt know all this great stuff was out there..

-jeff

[PsychoCop]

Originally Posted by JonInMiddleGA

Some of these are freebies that you can d'load, others are only available for purchase, but let's see what I can do here:

First and Ten & Above the Rim are freebies, can both be d'loaded from the designer's website at http://www.tabletopsportsgames.homes...ortsGames.html

You'll find the new retail computer version of FAT, called Second and Ten, at
http://www.roogames.co.uk\sat.html/
(be sure to check out the other computer products from Roogames)

Roller Rumble, Second Season, Face To the Mat (pro wrestling) are all retail games available at www.plaay.com

That's most of the ones mentioned in this thread so far.

As for others games in the genre ...

You'll find more free downloads than you could play in a lifetime at
http://www.tabletop-sports.com/index.php
There's also a wide assortment of add-ons, user mods, etc. for retail tabletop sports games on the site as well. Just hit the "Downloads" section & have a blast (just make sure you're printer is well stocked on ink )

For hockey and golf, I highly recommend Decisive Action Sports
http://www.sports-only.com/users/decisivegames/

There's tennis, soccer, golf, and sumo wrestling for sale at
http://www.timetravelgames.com/

There's football, baseball, basketball, horse racing for sale at
http://www.members.tripod.com/newaction/

I also highly recommend a couple of forums for discussion, info, reviews, dynasty reports, etc
http://forums.delphiforums.com/seasonspast/start
http://forums.delphiforums.com/tabletopsports/start

Then there's more links than you can shake a stick at to be found at
http://www.geocities.com/garyco_77521/simlinks.html

That ought to get you started pretty well (especially the downloads section at Jeff Downey's site), any specific sports, questions, etc., just throw 'em out there & we can probably find you an answer.

Wow. thanks a lot Jon!

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by PsychoCop

Wow. thanks a lot Jon!

You're more than welcome. I've gotten countless hours of enjoyment from the tabletop genre since re-discovering it in the past couple of years, and I've gotten an awful lot of help from other gamers along the way. I'm very happy
to have an opportunity to "pay it forward" with at least some of that info.

To be honest, I could have (any maybe should have) added another half-dozen links to that list, but didn't want to go too far overboard. Perhaps the best retail company I didn't mention might be Lambourne Games, a British company that has cricket, track & field, road racing and other sports in their product lines. Computer versions of some of their games have been subsequently produced by the aforementioned Roogames. And the Lambourne line is now continued under license by
Ozwat Games. I can't count the number of positive reports I've seen from customers of Ozwat, they're pretty much marvelous AFAIK.

Among the freebies at Jeff Downey's site, the hottest thing going in the past few months seems to be Pairadice Hockey, with new seasons being added by users/the designer all the time. It's had the best buzz I've seen for any tabletop game in at least a couple of years, I just haven't had the time to get into it but it is definitely worth highlighting here IMO.

[Philliesfan980]

General question regarding tabletop games that are mentioned above...

How does the Solo game play? Since there is no "AI" , how do the solo gamers manage to play a fun "satisfying" game? I doubt any of my mid-20's, button mashing, friends are going to be up for any of the above games.

I used to love to play strat-o in the mid-late 80's when I was a kid, but often had to force myself to bring in that tough lefty setup man against my top hitting left handed batter. I suppose that there are still the same problems.

Not sure if I made alot of sense there, but I'm hoping that someone knows how I feel

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by Philliesfan980

How does the Solo game play? Since there is no "AI" , how do the solo gamers manage to play a fun "satisfying" game? I doubt any of my mid-20's, button mashing, friends are going to be up for any of the above games.

I used to love to play strat-o in the mid-late 80's when I was a kid, but often had to force myself to bring in that tough lefty setup man against my top hitting left handed batter. I suppose that there are still the same problems.

Not sure if I made alot of sense there, but I'm hoping that someone knows how I feel

There's several different schools of thought on this subject, and several different approaches.

Many games in the tabletop arena are more "replay" than "career" oriented.
APBA, Strat, etc., even moreso when you get to games like DiamondMind, Replay Baseball, Replay Basketball, etc. Those tend to have player usage limitations that, to varying degrees, serve to make some of the strategic decisions you're talking about.

Then there's another segment of games that have various "strategy" or "coach" or similar rolls that determine at least one side of the decisions in a contest. Frequently, these may be "user add-ons" or "optional" rules that aren't neccessarily from the designer/developer. Depending upon the game & the gamer, these work pretty well to not very well.

And there's a significant portion of the niche that is "abstracted" and is final result oriented, not play-by-play or event-by-event oriented. These are often referred to as "Quick Play" games (although not many of the ones we've talked about in this thread fall into that category, they're still a sizable niche-within-the-niche overall). The degree of abstraction renders strategy largely moot -- the final result is "the thing", not "how we got there". A good example of this is a game like UltraQuick Boxing that is used for my Heavyweight Boxing campaign in the Dynasty forum here.

On the whole, the tabletop genre runs the gamut of user-influence on the outcome from high to non-existent. My own gaming preference runs toward the latter, being very outcome oriented, so I'm probably not anywhere near an expert on the subject of dealing with strategic elements that a lot of other TTG'ers would be.

And then there's a point that seems relevant here concerning the nature of a lot of the older/oldest tabletop games -- they were designed to be played head-to-head moreso than solo. That kind of takes care of the strategy issue on those games.

I believe your pretty much on-target with your assessment about "button-pushers" -- generally speaking, they aren't particularly likely to be
an audience that will find this genre appealing. There are exceptions, but that's a fair generality IMO.

You've asked a very good question, and you might be interested to know that it's also one of the most often discussed topics in the tabletop community too. Get a set of APAB'ers or SOM'ers to talk about how to handle things like stealing bases or bunting or bullpen usage and you'll see pretty quickly how many opinions there are on the subject of "the right way to do it" there are

[Philliesfan980]

Originally Posted by JonInMiddleGA

There's several different schools of thought on this subject, and several different approaches.

Many games in the tabletop arena are more "replay" than "career" oriented.
APBA, Strat, etc., even moreso when you get to games like DiamondMind, Replay Baseball, Replay Basketball, etc. Those tend to have player usage limitations that, to varying degrees, serve to make some of the strategic decisions you're talking about.

Then there's another segment of games that have various "strategy" or "coach" or similar rolls that determine at least one side of the decisions in a contest. Frequently, these may be "user add-ons" or "optional" rules that aren't neccessarily from the designer/developer. Depending upon the game & the gamer, these work pretty well to not very well.

And there's a significant portion of the niche that is "abstracted" and is final result oriented, not play-by-play or event-by-event oriented. These are often referred to as "Quick Play" games (although not many of the ones we've talked about in this thread fall into that category, they're still a sizable niche-within-the-niche overall). The degree of abstraction renders strategy largely moot -- the final result is "the thing", not "how we got there". A good example of this is a game like UltraQuick Boxing that is used for my Heavyweight Boxing campaign in the Dynasty forum here.

On the whole, the tabletop genre runs the gamut of user-influence on the outcome from high to non-existent. My own gaming preference runs toward the latter, being very outcome oriented, so I'm probably not anywhere near an expert on the subject of dealing with strategic elements that a lot of other TTG'ers would be.

And then there's a point that seems relevant here concerning the nature of a lot of the older/oldest tabletop games -- they were designed to be played head-to-head moreso than solo. That kind of takes care of the strategy issue on those games.

I believe your pretty much on-target with your assessment about "button-pushers" -- generally speaking, they aren't particularly likely to be
an audience that will find this genre appealing. There are exceptions, but that's a fair generality IMO.

You've asked a very good question, and you might be interested to know that it's also one of the most often discussed topics in the tabletop community too. Get a set of APAB'ers or SOM'ers to talk about how to handle things like stealing bases or bunting or bullpen usage and you'll see pretty quickly how many opinions there are on the subject of "the right way to do it" there are

Thanks for the well thought out response. My interest is gaining every day. After I'm done studying for the CPA exam, I'll really look into this at a deeper level (Don't need any distractions now!).

Do you keep stats, or are you more of a "one game" type of person? Any useful utils/templates for keeping stats?

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by Philliesfan980

Do you keep stats, or are you more of a "one game" type of person? Any useful utils/templates for keeping stats?

I'm almost exclusively a "career" mode gamer. And you might be able to strike the word "almost" from that sentence -- with the exception of playtesting, learning my way through the rules, running a random game just to get comfortable with the flow, etc., I honestly can't remember when I've just played a game/match/contest strictly for the sake of playing it.

That's what actually keeps my games-played total relatively low compared to some other gamers -- if I don't keep stats, have cumulative results/stats, etc., I really don't have much interest in playing. And with some games, the recordkeeping takes as much or more time than the actual playing, which slows things down considerably.

Utils/templates/etc are usually game-specific, some have 'em out there, some don't. The vast majority of my stuff is kept in one or more Excel templates/files that I design specifically for each need as it comes up.

[bossfan2000]

Originally Posted by Philliesfan980

General question regarding tabletop games that are mentioned above...

How does the Solo game play? Since there is no "AI" , how do the solo gamers manage to play a fun "satisfying" game? I doubt any of my mid-20's, button mashing, friends are going to be up for any of the above games.

I used to love to play strat-o in the mid-late 80's when I was a kid, but often had to force myself to bring in that tough lefty setup man against my top hitting left handed batter. I suppose that there are still the same problems.

Not sure if I made alot of sense there, but I'm hoping that someone knows how I feel

yeah...i know exactly how you feel. I grew up playing strat too. If you are looking for a baseball game that is a little easier to play solo...check out Replay Baseball. It has some solo stuff built in...it has its own inury system, and even its own base stealing system built into the ratings, so you dont have to make that decision. Also, someone created a tremendous spreadsheet that has all the info you would need to replay a season. For every game and every team, it has the batting order, starting pitcher, opponent, etc...more than i can list. The really amazing thing is he fit each team on the front and back of one sheet! My description probably isnt doing it justice; you would have to see it to believe it. I was replaying the 2003 braves, and using that sheet, i could use the exact lineup that was played for each game..that way i didnt have to decide who to sit and all that stuff..If you are interested in a replay of team/season..i couldnt recommend it highly enough..

Also for Replay Baseball (and other sims i would imagine should work) someone created a spreadsheet utility to keep stats. I still like doing the stats by hand. Using the utility, i could input those stats into the stat keeping worksheet using a shorthand...some adding the manual scoresheet into the computer for stats took only 5 minutes..

If any of that interests you, let me know and i can post some links to these things..

-jeff

[JonInMiddleGA]

Some unhappy news from the tabletop games front

http://plaay.com/annxmt.html
Keith Avallone, owner of PLAAY.com

After giving it much thought, I've decided to close PLAAY.com. It's time for me to focus my energies on other things!

I would like to thank everyone for their support, encouragement and enthusiasm for the various games I've created over the past five years.

I do have some GOOD news--Pete Ventura of Replay Games has agreed to continue to offer SECOND SEASON Pro Football Game through his company! The game, and all the currently available seasons, will continue to be made available through REPLAY. Pete has also expressed an interest in creating and offering new football seasons for the game, and I've agreed to assist him where possible.

I'm not ruling out the possibility that PLAAY.com might someday return to the web. In the meantime, I'm excited that the PLAAYgame community will continue on under new management! Discussion will continue at the PLAAYgames forum on Delphi, and I'll do what I can to provide information and assistance.

In the words of Ron Arnst--"Keep 'em rolling!"

Keith's Roller Rumble & Face to the Mat were two of the best purchases I've made in the past couple of years, I really hate to see them go.

[Tekneek]

Unfortunately, I decided to go looking for the plaay.com games a bit too late.

I've just recently downloaded and printed out the 2003-04 AHL and NHL rosters, plus World Cup, for use with Pairadice hockey. I'd love to print out the 2002-03 ones, but afraid the printers aren't up to it (I should get someone to reveal the location and name of the color printers here at work...)... My first project is to play out the 2004 World Cup, but run it differently than the real one (ie, no split into NA and Euro pools...everyone play in the same group). My first test game, to get used to the game/rules/etc, was US vs Canada and the Americans won 6-1...Brodeur was brutal, managing just 16 saves on 22 shots.

[CraigSca]

BTW, Plaay.com's football game (Second Season) has been taken over by Pete Ventura of Replay Baseball (www.replaybb.com).

Pete is definitely one of the good guys in the business, so if you're looking for tabletop baseball, football or basketball, give the website a try. You'd be amazed at how quickly he ships

[JonInMiddleGA]

Just echoing CraigSca's comments about Pete Ventura a bit -- I haven't even bought from the guy (I'm not a Replay devotee) and yet I'm still impressed by his reputation in the community.

Also, speaking of good guys in the genre, I should probably mention that Bruce Kish (Decisive-Action Sports) is offering a Christmas gift ... for all customers who purchased a purchased the Classic Hockey 2003 update or a new Classic Hockey set (excluding Starter Edition) from Feb. 7, 2003 (which happens to coincide with my call-up to active duty) through today. Last year, we revised the formulas for offense and defense starting with the 2002-03 season and introduced half-goal ratings for greater accuracy. I have finished the revisions for all prior years in the game, including Pro and Olympic. You will soon be receiving the new charts in the mail as a "Thank You" for supporting our company while I was in Kuwait. The new charts will be standard with all future purchases, including updates for earlier purchases.

Also, the annual update for Classic Golf is nearly ready, they're finishing up the 04 Ryder Cup and 04 European Tour before releasing it for sale next week. The Classic Hockey 2003-04 updates for teams and the Box Score Generator are now available: Item # BOX04 $9.95.

Anybody looking for those should try the new website at
http://decisiveactionsports.tabletop-sports.com/

[bbo]

Hey guys. I believe I was the guy who posted when we released our football game. We just released our hockey game last weekend. Here is a link to our site if you would like to take a look.

http://home.comcast.net/~dicegames/
Brian

[sabotai]

I just bought Second Season from Replay Games. I thought it'd be awhile, but I placed the order late last week and it came today.

So far I've been having fun with it. I got the 2003 season and started a game between Carolina and New England (recreating last year's Super Bowl). It took me almost 2 hours to do the first quarter, but I'm sure over an hour of that was me just getting used to the game. So far it's been pretty interesting. Carolina drived the field (with the help of a defensive penelty giving them the 1st down on a 3rd and long) only to have it stall at the 1 yard line and had to settle for a short FG. New England comes back, throws a pass inside the 10 yard line of Carolina but is called for Holding that pushes them back. Brady then throws 3 incomplete passes and Vinatieri barely makes a 49 yard FG.

Carolina then goes 3 and out. On New England's 2nd play of the next drive, Troy Brown breaks one and goes 58 yards for the TD. Another 3 and out for Carolina, but their defense comes up big. Grant picks off Brady near mid field and as the 1st quarter came to an end, Carolina had gotten just inside New England's 35 yard line.

Almost 2 hours of play reduced to 2 short paragraphs. It was fun though.

[SirFozzie]

GRINS.. sab.. we really got make a SS Client to play over the net, I feel like it's a very good and detailed game!

Tell me how it turns out

[sabotai]

In the second quarter, Kasey attempted a 44 yard FG which was blocked and returned all the way to the Carolina 12 yard line. 3 plays later, New England takes a 17-3 lead. Near the end of the half, Delhomme gets picked off and on the last play of the half, Vinateri tried a 44 yard FG but the snap was bad and the half ended 17-3

The 3rd started with a couple of 3 and outs until New Englad had another bad snap, this time on a punt. Carolina got in range for another Kasey FG to make it 17-6 New England. The Patriots answer right back with a 25 yard TD pass from Brady to Grahem to make it 24-6. After that, Carolina put together a 10 yard drive that ended with Kasey hitting a long 49 yard FG to make it 24-9. and the half ended on the next drive, New England at their own 40 yard line.

The Patriots get to the Carolina 38 yard line and punt. Carolina gets another drive going and Davis runs in from 12 yards to make it 24-16 New England. New England again gets into Carolina territory but can't get passed the 40 yardline and pin Carolina at the 15. Carolina gets the ball into New England territory and Davis fumbles the ball! New England gets the ball, again stall out just inside the Carolina 40 and this time Carolina has to start from the 10.

A beautiful drive ensued, aided at least twice by Delhomme's "game on the line" attribute, and the get to the New England 14 yard line. They have 2 chances. The first goes incomplete and the second the Smith goes for just 11 yards, tackled 3 short of the endzone and the game ends.

Carolina 16
New England 24

[Wolfpack]

It's a good game (Second Season, that is), but it's definitely a little time-consuming, especially if you are trying in any remote way to maintain stats. The chart flipping tends to get tedious unless you are in one of those "breakaway" situations where the anticipation of something big occurs.

I got it back in 2002 and replayed a 2001 playoff game between the Jets and Raiders. That was a wild contest because the Raiders were driving for a killing score late when Gannon coughed up the ball around the Jet 10 and James Farrior returned it all the way for a touchdown to put the Jets ahead. The Raiders executed a great two-minute drill, though, and got into range for a tying field goal to force OT. In the OT, Charlie Garner busted up the middle from 40 yards out to win the game. Good stuff.

[JonInMiddleGA]

re: Second Season

Not sure if this will be of use to anyone or not, but just in case ... be sure to check the downloads section at http://www.tabletop-sports.com (aka Jeff Downey's site). There are at least 50 home-brewed teams available there, as well as several scoresheet variations that might help with some of the stat maintenance issue.
(or might not, I haven't played SS nor tried these sheets)

[sabotai]

Yeah, I downloaded all of the SS downloads from there. I also got the guide that explains how to rate the teams yourself.

Yeah, it's pretty time consuming. I've gotten the hang of it and each quarter doesn't take me nearly as long as the first one did, but it still takes awhile. No big though, I don't play table-top games to sim sports matches/games dozens at a time.

[JonInMiddleGA]

I got a pretty good tip from someone today & thought I ought to pay it forward.
http://www.playbaseballclassics.com/

This is not brain surgery. It's not very deep, there's nary a grognard in sight gathered around this one. What it does appear to have going for it is a simple design that's very playable by a lot of ages (I'm seeing a good father-son game here), and some instant gratification potential thanks to a download-and-print-yourself option for the relevant cards, charts, etc. The price is right too, at least on the .pdf version, just $4.95 to $6.95 per card set (All-Time teams, 2004 MLB, All-Time Slugger Teams, etc). And you can custom order any team from the past 100+ years of MLB & they'll email you those files within 24-48 hours.

Like I said, it ain't gonna be something for everybody, but for folks looking to get their kids into sports gaming without involving a PC, this sure looks like a possible winner.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Also, while I'm posting on this general subject, I might as well go ahead & add a couple of other things too:

-- Check out the new forum for indy/freebie/DIY gamers. The owner/operator is
a longtime gamer who had a pretty darned good rep around the community, so he definitely deserves a plug as he makes a welcome return to the arena.
http://forums.delphiforums.com/thesportsden/start

-- That site was one of a few where I mentioned this little tidbit a few days ago.

"My first ever game for public consumption has finally made it into internal beta testing (aka "me, my son, Excel, and some dice).

It took about 4 months from the time the first things went on paper to get to this point, so today has been kind of a relief & a milestone all in one. And I guess that's why I want to talk about it just a little bit, really for the first time outside of my house.

The genre -- Professional Bull Riding ala the PBR.
(www.pbrnow.com for the uninitiated)

The test model is based on real riders & real bulls from the 2004 season that ended last October. Currently have 98 riders & 290 bulls rated for use with the game. The real-life data is great for testing & should play well for anyone so inclined, but the scarcity of data for bulls from prior seasons make it doubtful that earlier ones will be created. This could end up being something that only does a real-life season at a time, but I'm hoping to establish guidelines for creating your own fictional universe to run under the framework, once any bugs are routed from the mechanics. The beauty of using the actual data for testing is that it will give me a much better grasp of "the feel" of the game, something that I think is probably the most important attribute of any game -- whether or not it "feels right" to a fan of the subject. A great example of what I'm talking about is how Roller Rumble "felt like" Roller Derby when you played it, a feeling that made subjective ratings & pretty much anything else largely irrelevant -- you felt like you were there.

The current phase (hopefully) won't take 4 months to complete. It'll take how ever long it takes, but I'm reasonably optimistic about something in the range of a month or so (it helps to have an enthusiastic almost 7 y/o asking about the progress everyday).
Once I'm comfortable with the results & the feel on both the single event and season level, I plan to make the rules & files available publically. The guidelines for creation of fictional characters and rules for evolving your universe would follow when ready.

The PBR is a niche sport, no doubt about it. But it's one of the fastest growing niches out there, it's one that's near the very top of the sports list in my household, and it's one that features some of the all-around most likable people that I run across in all of sport. And hopefully, it'll be something that's fun on the tabletop for both fans & newcomers alike.

Right now, it's looking like this will be a "download the .pdf & print the charts & tables yourself" game. It's designed for 1d100 use (or more commonly "2d10, read separately"). My Excel skills are limited enough that no "helper app" is expected at the release, although if someone were to be motivated to do one ... The data itself is fairly compact but depending upon the level of realism you want, you'll go through several sheets of paper per event keeping track of matchups & results.

Riders & bulls have separate ratings for ride/buck potential and scoring potential, and there's an injury system that's simple to use but provides more than 50 injury types with around 100 different effects. (For the unfamiliar, injuries are an unfortunate but significant part of the PBR, with an injury of note occuring on roughly 5% of all attempted rides)

[FBPro]

I just grabbed Second Season off ebay and looking forward to giving it a whirl.

[SirFozzie]

Cool to see the thread is reborn God I wish I had time for a game of Roller Rumble

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by SirFozzie

Cool to see the thread is reborn God I wish I had time for a game of Roller Rumble

Speaking of which, I saw last night where someone has put a copy of Roller Rumble on eBay, as well as a copy of Face To the Mat.

[vtbub]

http://www.smart-guys-sports.com/?p=135

I reviewed second and ten.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Just bumping this thread to mention that I'm finishing up a homebrewed TNA roster set for Face To the Mat.

It includes the entire core roster, a few jobbers, a few former members of the roster, managers, three celebrities with TNA connections, and a few veterans that could conceivably be included in an angle if the mood strikes you, even has alternate versions of Team Canada for before/after their split. 77 cards in all (counting the five duplicated Canadians).

I'm finishing up the "Read Me" file and adding a few other things that might be helpful for gamers who don't yet follow TNA (PPV lists, current angles, tag team & stables list, etc).

Will & I played for about 3 hours last night and the set, while far from perfect, seems to give pretty good results overall, so I'm getting the package together as a zip file with everything in .pdf (for the gamers who don't have Excel) as well as the .xls version of the card templates for anybody who wants to edit something I did before printing it out.

Ultimately I'll upload this to www.tabletop-sports.com but sometimes that gets wrinkled up, so if anybody wants these when they're ready, let me know & I'll email you the zip file as soon as it's done (I'm hoping tonight/tomorrow).

[Oilers9911]

On the tabletop gaming front I have to recommend TMG Pro Basketball by Tom Mink Sports Games. www.tmsportsgames.com. It's a hybrid of a cards and dice game and a pc game. You get the cards like you would with strat-o-matic etc but there is a "helper" that you use that rolls the dice, keeps stats etc including full season stats.

I can get a full game played in about 45 minutes and it feels like basketball. Right now I am replaying the 84-85 season and it's been alot of fun.

[JonInMiddleGA]

In case anyone is interested, a guy on the Delphi Forums just put several Plaay.com games up for grabs (including Roller Rumble) He mentioned that he lives in England so the shipping probably won't be cheap, but these don't come up very often so I figured it was worth mentioning here. There's also several Lambourne Games titles available. They aren't on eBay, he's asking people to contact him directly at the email address listed in this post:

http://forums.delphiforums.com/n/mb/...rts&msg=9481.1

[Klinglerware]

Jon,

Do you know if any updates or new teams came out recently for the SAT College PC version?

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by Klinglerware

Jon,

Do you know if any updates or new teams came out recently for the SAT College PC version?

I think all 117 Div I-A teams from 2005 were released about a month ago.
Should be the first file you see for download at
http://www.roogames.co.uk/satteams.htm

[Klinglerware]

Thanks. I'll definitely check it out...