Lebron or Wade?

MrBug708 · 05-23-2005, 10:29 PM

Go back to 2003 draft. Do you take Lebron or Wade?

Swaggs · 05-23-2005, 10:30 PM

Lebron.

Schmidty · 05-23-2005, 10:33 PM

Darko.

GreenMonster · 05-23-2005, 10:37 PM

I think Wade has a chance to be a great player but LeBron has a chance to be special.. Lebron is 20 and played 2 years out of high school and Wade 5 now. Lebron does it all and I think his ceiling is a little higher than Wade's..

Danny · 05-23-2005, 10:39 PM

While everone and their mother wanted to bone Wade these past couple weeks, I will take Lebron.

DaddyTorgo · 05-23-2005, 10:45 PM

lebron...no doubt. not even a second of hesitation. i think we need to wait 15 years or so though before we can really do this discussion justice of course. to see the impact both guys have

duckman · 05-23-2005, 11:00 PM

Sam Bowie

Deattribution · 05-23-2005, 11:05 PM

This would be a better question if it were Carmelo or Wade.

Lebron slightly, just because I think he elevated his team alot but got caught in a big mess with the team changing owners,coaches,losing control of players, and losing players all together (Boozer).

EagleFan · 05-23-2005, 11:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Schmidty

Darko.

lol

Eaglesfan27 · 05-23-2005, 11:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Deattribution

This would be a better question if it were Carmelo or Wade.

Lebron slightly, just because I think he elevated his team alot but got caught in a big mess with the team changing owners,coaches,losing control of players, and losing players all together (Boozer).

I think Wade wins that discussion of Wade vs Carmelo. However, I'd take Lebron over Wade.

st.cronin · 05-23-2005, 11:15 PM

1. Lebron
2. Wade
3. Anthony

cmp · 05-23-2005, 11:17 PM

Lebron by far.

GreenMonster · 05-23-2005, 11:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by st.cronin

1. Lebron
2. Wade
3. Anthony

I think most would agree with this order..

Young Drachma · 05-23-2005, 11:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MrBug708

Go back to 2003 draft. Do you take Lebron or Wade?

Lebron.

Sharpieman · 05-23-2005, 11:26 PM

The reason you are even mentioning Wade is because he's got Shaq at his side.

Danny · 05-23-2005, 11:28 PM

Just last week all the hype was, oh my Wade is more valuable than Shaq, Shaq needs Wade more than the other way around, Wade is the best player under 6'10 in the NBA, wade is the next Jordan. Get real. Wade led his team to a few great games over a mediocre team in disarray. I really like Wade too, and think is one of the better players in the league, but the hype form one week of games was just ridiculous heh

Young Drachma · 05-23-2005, 11:28 PM

Exactly. With all his baggage, I'd take Kobe over Wade, if you gave me Shaq with either of them.

Imagine LEBRON with Shaq on his team?!?!

Deattribution · 05-23-2005, 11:36 PM

I'd take Wade over Kobe any day of the week, Wade still has alot of room to grow, especially once he downs his defense and gets his 3pter going and he's already on par with Kobe.

Kobe has all the baggage and bad rep around him, plus he's about as good as he's gonna get, sure he has 3 rings, and I won't even go into the Kobe has Shaq debate, the only thing I will say is how many rings are those 3 rings going to win me today?

None.

Eaglesfan27 · 05-23-2005, 11:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Deattribution

I'd take Wade over Kobe any day of the week, Wade still has alot of room to grow, especially once he downs his defense and gets his 3pter going and he's already on par with Kobe.

Kobe has all the baggage and bad rep around him, plus he's about as good as he's gonna get, sure he has 3 rings, and I won't even go into the Kobe has Shaq debate, the only thing I will say is how many rings are those 3 rings going to win me today?

None.

I agree. You have to look at intangibles. Kobe alienates his teammates and does not make them better. Wade makes his teammates better and has done it all year, including games where he did not have Shaq.

MrBug708 · 05-23-2005, 11:47 PM

Has anyone ever questioned the fact that Shaq has always had all star guards? Or does he make them that way?

Danny · 05-23-2005, 11:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Eaglesfan27

I agree. You have to look at intangibles. Kobe alienates his teammates and does not make them better. Wade makes his teammates better and has done it all year, including games where he did not have Shaq.

More drivel. Kobe and Shaq won 3 rings together. There were many times where Shaq was hurt or struggling and Kobe carried the team on his back. Kobe was the guy who won them the games in the 4th quarter when Shaq was being hacked. Kobe was an awesome, awesome player. I watched every Lakers playoff game from the year Kobe got there to now. He did make his teamates better, and he did carry the team when needed and he did lead the team in the 4th quarter when it mattered.

Just because he turned into a major jackass now doesn't mean what he did in the past should be thought any less of. The Kobe you are describing is the one of right now, not the Kobe who teamed with Shaq to win 3 straight championships. People change, not always for the better.

Pacersfan46 · 05-24-2005, 12:19 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sharpieman

The reason you are even mentioning Wade is because he's got Shaq at his side.

Not true AT ALL.

People were talking about him last year in the playoffs when he didn't have Shaq, and almost single handedly upset the Pacers as the #8 seed playing the team with the best record in the NBA, and he did it without Shaq.

Danny · 05-24-2005, 12:28 AM

Hah, I reread my post about Wade a little above, and wow there were a lot of typing errors. Anyway, I like Wade a lot and if I had to pick between him and Kobe moving forward, I would pick Wade. But, Wade still has a lot to prove and he would be lucky to have a career as successful as the one Kobe has had up to this point.

Eaglesfan27 · 05-24-2005, 01:06 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Danny Drickman

More drivel. Kobe and Shaq won 3 rings together. There were many times where Shaq was hurt or struggling and Kobe carried the team on his back. Kobe was the guy who won them the games in the 4th quarter when Shaq was being hacked. Kobe was an awesome, awesome player. I watched every Lakers playoff game from the year Kobe got there to now. He did make his teamates better, and he did carry the team when needed and he did lead the team in the 4th quarter when it mattered.

Just because he turned into a major jackass now doesn't mean what he did in the past should be thought any less of. The Kobe you are describing is the one of right now, not the Kobe who teamed with Shaq to win 3 straight championships. People change, not always for the better.

It is not drivel. Kobe inherited two of Wade's most important role players from last year. Wade made those guys and the rest of his team into a 2nd round playoff team last year before Shaq arrived. Wade made his teammates better. Kobe made the Lakers a lottery team. Yeah, yeah, I know the West is tougher than the East, but Kobe is showing his inability to make his teammates better. Kobe is lucky he had Shaq. The only reason Kobe did well in the past is because Phil and Shaq could help ease Kobe's lack of intangibles. Of course, this is all opinion, but there certainly is circumstantial evidence that indicates this. The real test will be what Kobe does the next few years.

korme · 05-24-2005, 01:15 AM

All I'm saying is Wade is 23, Bryant only 26. Just because Kobe isn't in the spotlight right now doesn't mean he doesn't have many great years ahead of him.

Eaglesfan27 · 05-24-2005, 01:20 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shorty3281

All I'm saying is Wade is 23, Bryant only 26. Just because Kobe isn't in the spotlight right now doesn't mean he doesn't have many great years ahead of him.

Maybe I'll eat my words, but I'll predict that Kobe never wins another title unless he brings Phil back. Phil could actually ease over his weaknesses in dealing with others and help him win titles. I don't think anyone else has a strong enough personality to deal with Kobe's.

Young Drachma · 05-24-2005, 01:41 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Eaglesfan27

Maybe I'll eat my words, but I'll predict that Kobe never wins another title unless he brings Phil back. Phil could actually ease over his weaknesses in dealing with others and help him win titles. I don't think anyone else has a strong enough personality to deal with Kobe's.

Kobe will overcome this. He'll grow. Jordan wasn't this successful at his age.

Tara · 05-24-2005, 01:50 AM

Lebron.

JeeberD · 05-24-2005, 01:56 AM

Lebron. Easy question...

Quote:

Originally Posted by MrBug708

Has anyone ever questioned the fact that Shaq has always had all star guards? Or does he make them that way?

Penny

Neon_Chaos · 05-24-2005, 02:19 AM

Lebron most definitely. He's a rare breed... height, athleticism, court-savvy, basketball IQ off the charts. Insane.

To put it into perspective, would you rather have in your team:
Shaq and Lebron, or Shaq and Wade?

Sharpieman · 05-24-2005, 02:23 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pacersfan46

Not true AT ALL.

People were talking about him last year in the playoffs when he didn't have Shaq, and almost single handedly upset the Pacers as the #8 seed playing the team with the best record in the NBA, and he did it without Shaq.

Oh please! If Shaq wasn't there the Heat would not be where they are right now. Wade is one of the better guards in the game, but put Shaq with any good guard in the league and that team will be one of the best teams in the league. You put Lebron with Shaq, oh my God, that team would be unstoppable. Once Shaq is gone, once he retires or whatever, the Heat aren't contenders for the title anymore.

Deattribution · 05-24-2005, 02:55 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sharpieman

Oh please! If Shaq wasn't there the Heat would not be where they are right now.

They'd sure as hell be alot better than the Shaqless Lakers.

It's probably the most obvious observation here, but if you're a Laker fan, or a L.A altogether, you're going to be a tad bit biased towards Kobe.

Wade at the very least is on the same, or similiar level with Kobe.

Deattribution · 05-24-2005, 02:58 AM

Dola

Until Kobe wins on his own, he will always be to Shaq what Pippen was to Jordan, a key player but replacable.

Raiders Army · 05-24-2005, 06:23 AM

Neither, I don't take guys.

Raiders Army · 05-24-2005, 06:24 AM

Dola, or let guys take me.

Warhammer · 05-24-2005, 09:02 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JeeberD

Lebron. Easy question...

Penny

Don't forget, Penny blew his knee out two years after Shaq left. IIRC Penny had a VERY good year the year Shaq left.

JeeberD · 05-24-2005, 09:57 AM

Bah, give me the real Hardaway...

Danny · 05-24-2005, 10:20 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Eaglesfan27

It is not drivel. Kobe inherited two of Wade's most important role players from last year. Wade made those guys and the rest of his team into a 2nd round playoff team last year before Shaq arrived. Wade made his teammates better. Kobe made the Lakers a lottery team. Yeah, yeah, I know the West is tougher than the East, but Kobe is showing his inability to make his teammates better. Kobe is lucky he had Shaq. The only reason Kobe did well in the past is because Phil and Shaq could help ease Kobe's lack of intangibles. Of course, this is all opinion, but there certainly is circumstantial evidence that indicates this. The real test will be what Kobe does the next few years.

I will say this again. Shaq needed Kobe and Kobe needed Shaq. Without either one, there are 0 titles. Kobe was the best 4th quarter player in the NBA during those seasons. Without Kobe's late game and overtime ability, the Lakers wouldn't have won a single title.

Can you answer me this, did you watch all the playoff games from those seasons? And seriously, using this season's Lakers team and last season's Heat team is basically taking the worst from Kobe and ingoring everything else he has done.

Also, look at Coaching! Wade and the rest of the Heat had a great coach who is known for making the most out of teams last season in Pat Riley. The Lakers had Rudy T who is a good coach. They were learning a new system, then after 30 or so games, they get a new coach with an entirely new system to almost everyone as they go back to the Triangle. If you expect Odom, Bulter, and everyone else along with Kobe to learn and become efficient in the triangle in a mid season switch, then you are crazy. When that happened, I knew the Lakers were done.

Pacersfan46 · 05-24-2005, 11:24 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sharpieman

Once Shaq is gone, once he retires or whatever, the Heat aren't contenders for the title anymore.

Yeah, once Shaq is gone and replaced by nobody, they won't be title contenders. Yet, the Lakers lose Shaq, and get 2 good players, and they're not even playoff contenders. Do you honestly believe without Wade, the Heat are title contenders?

Regardless, the point still stands. You just don't want to admit it. People talked about him last year as he put up one hell of a fight against the Pacers with Artest guarding him. Shaq isn't the only reason people mention Dwayne Wade.

weinstein7 · 05-24-2005, 12:21 PM

Ok, so we all (or at least most of us) agree that it's

Lebron
Dwyane
'melo

What about the rest? I figure Bosh has to be 4 (although I have to admit I've never actually seen him play), then maybe Heinrich 5. Then you've still got contributors like Ridnour, Collison, and Josh Howard, not to mention all the projects.

Deattribution · 05-24-2005, 12:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Danny Drickman

I will say this again. Shaq needed Kobe and Kobe needed Shaq. Without either one, there are 0 titles. Kobe was the best 4th quarter player in the NBA during those seasons. Without Kobe's late game and overtime ability, the Lakers wouldn't have won a single title.

Can you answer me this, did you watch all the playoff games from those seasons? And seriously, using this season's Lakers team and last season's Heat team is basically taking the worst from Kobe and ingoring everything else he has done.

Also, look at Coaching! Wade and the rest of the Heat had a great coach who is known for making the most out of teams last season in Pat Riley. The Lakers had Rudy T who is a good coach. They were learning a new system, then after 30 or so games, they get a new coach with an entirely new system to almost everyone as they go back to the Triangle. If you expect Odom, Bulter, and everyone else along with Kobe to learn and become efficient in the triangle in a mid season switch, then you are crazy. When that happened, I knew the Lakers were done.

Could you kiss the Laker's ass anymore? geesh.

if you want to talk about drivel, Pat Riley wasn't coaching the Heat when they reach the playoffs last year, the assistant, and now head coach Stan Van Gundy was. So not only was the team led by a rookie but by a rookie head coach too.

Put in any Good to great player with Shaq, with Phil Jackson coaching, and you have a 95%+ chance of winning in all three of those years still.

When Kobe takes the Laker's to the draft lottery championship again next year, get back to me.

Danny · 05-24-2005, 02:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Deattribution

Could you kiss the Laker's ass anymore? geesh.

if you want to talk about drivel, Pat Riley wasn't coaching the Heat when they reach the playoffs last year, the assistant, and now head coach Stan Van Gundy was. So not only was the team led by a rookie but by a rookie head coach too.

Put in any Good to great player with Shaq, with Phil Jackson coaching, and you have a 95%+ chance of winning in all three of those years still.

When Kobe takes the Laker's to the draft lottery championship again next year, get back to me.

I am wrong about the Riley comment, so I apologize for that, but either way I am done here. I should have known better to actually argue for a three time consecutive champion player and team. It's painfully obvious people either didn't watch those playoff games, have simply forgotten or the most likely, are buying into the media hype. Whatever.

I don't even like Kobe, so why bother?

On to more important things, who is hotter, Natalie Portman or Keira Knightley?

st.cronin · 05-24-2005, 05:28 PM

In a TPF or Strat or fantasy league I think Kobe over Wade is an easy choice. Kobe has more game. In real life, I'll take Wade, thank you very much.

Eaglesfan27 · 05-24-2005, 07:47 PM

One other factor in the Kobe vs Wade argument. Wade is playing with a hobbled Shaq who is not close to what he was during those 3 championship years. That will be important to remember in any final comparisions.

Oh yeah, Danny, I watched every Lakers Playoff game as I've always been a Shaq fan.

Danny · 05-24-2005, 08:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Eaglesfan27

Oh yeah, Danny, I watched every Lakers Playoff game as I've always been a Shaq fan.

Like I said, I don't want to argue this anymore. I'll just agree to disagree

.

Sharpieman · 05-25-2005, 02:51 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pacersfan46

Yeah, once Shaq is gone and replaced by nobody, they won't be title contenders. Yet, the Lakers lose Shaq, and get 2 good players, and they're not even playoff contenders. Do you honestly believe without Wade, the Heat are title contenders?

Regardless, the point still stands. You just don't want to admit it. People talked about him last year as he put up one hell of a fight against the Pacers with Artest guarding him. Shaq isn't the only reason people mention Dwayne Wade.

I just don't want to admit it? I don't care at all. I was debating whether or not I should even post in an NBA thread because the playoffs and this season have been so damn boring. I'm not denying that Wade is a very good player, but Shaq is 10000 times better. You put Shaq with McGrady, Francis, Penny (Penny!!!!!) and that team is a title contender. Shaq is a million more times important to the Heat than Wade is, same goes when Shaq with with the Lakers.

Neon_Chaos · 05-25-2005, 05:58 AM

How many rings does Shaq have without Kobe in his team? 0
How many rings does Kobe have without Shaq in his team? 0

End of discussion. Come back when Shaq wins a title with the Heat.

05-23-2005, 10:30 PM	#2
Swaggs Coordinator Join Date: Oct 2000	Lebron. __________________ DOWN WITH HATTRICK!!! The RWBL Are you reading In The Bleachers?

05-23-2005, 10:33 PM	#3
Schmidty Coordinator Join Date: Apr 2001 Location: Early, TX	Darko. __________________ Just beat the devil out of it!!! - Bob Ross

05-23-2005, 11:26 PM	#15
Sharpieman Greatly Missed. (7/11/84-06/12/05) Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Palo Alto, CA	The reason you are even mentioning Wade is because he's got Shaq at his side. __________________ Better to remain silent and be thought a fool than to speak out and remove all doubt.

05-23-2005, 11:28 PM	#17
Young Drachma Dark Cloud Join Date: Apr 2001	Exactly. With all his baggage, I'd take Kobe over Wade, if you gave me Shaq with either of them. Imagine LEBRON with Shaq on his team?!?! __________________ Current Dynasty:The Zenith of Professional Basketball Careers (FBPB/FBCB) FBCB / FPB3 Mods

05-24-2005, 12:28 AM	#23
Danny Head Coach Join Date: Jul 2001	Hah, I reread my post about Wade a little above, and wow there were a lot of typing errors. Anyway, I like Wade a lot and if I had to pick between him and Kobe moving forward, I would pick Wade. But, Wade still has a lot to prove and he would be lucky to have a career as successful as the one Kobe has had up to this point. Last edited by Danny : 05-24-2005 at 12:29 AM.

05-23-2005, 10:37 PM	#4
GreenMonster High School Varsity Join Date: Mar 2005	I think Wade has a chance to be a great player but LeBron has a chance to be special.. Lebron is 20 and played 2 years out of high school and Wade 5 now. Lebron does it all and I think his ceiling is a little higher than Wade's..

05-23-2005, 10:39 PM	#5
Danny Head Coach Join Date: Jul 2001	While everone and their mother wanted to bone Wade these past couple weeks, I will take Lebron.

05-23-2005, 10:45 PM	#6
DaddyTorgo Hall Of Famer Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Massachusetts	lebron...no doubt. not even a second of hesitation. i think we need to wait 15 years or so though before we can really do this discussion justice of course. to see the impact both guys have

05-23-2005, 11:05 PM	#8
Deattribution College Benchwarmer Join Date: Oct 2003	This would be a better question if it were Carmelo or Wade. Lebron slightly, just because I think he elevated his team alot but got caught in a big mess with the team changing owners,coaches,losing control of players, and losing players all together (Boozer).

05-23-2005, 11:15 PM	#11
st.cronin General Manager Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: New Mexico	1. Lebron 2. Wade 3. Anthony

05-23-2005, 11:17 PM	#12
cmp Pro Rookie Join Date: Mar 2001 Location: Grand Rapids, MI	Lebron by far.

05-23-2005, 11:36 PM	#18
Deattribution College Benchwarmer Join Date: Oct 2003	I'd take Wade over Kobe any day of the week, Wade still has alot of room to grow, especially once he downs his defense and gets his 3pter going and he's already on par with Kobe. Kobe has all the baggage and bad rep around him, plus he's about as good as he's gonna get, sure he has 3 rings, and I won't even go into the Kobe has Shaq debate, the only thing I will say is how many rings are those 3 rings going to win me today? None.

05-23-2005, 11:47 PM	#20
MrBug708 Head Coach Join Date: Apr 2001 Location: Whittier	Has anyone ever questioned the fact that Shaq has always had all star guards? Or does he make them that way?

05-24-2005, 01:15 AM	#25
korme Go Reds Join Date: May 2001 Location: Bloodbuzz Ohio	All I'm saying is Wade is 23, Bryant only 26. Just because Kobe isn't in the spotlight right now doesn't mean he doesn't have many great years ahead of him.

05-24-2005, 01:50 AM	#28
Tara Mascot Join Date: May 2005 Location: Rome, Italy	Lebron.

05-24-2005, 02:19 AM	#30
Neon_Chaos Pro Starter Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: Parañaque, Philippines	Lebron most definitely. He's a rare breed... height, athleticism, court-savvy, basketball IQ off the charts. Insane. To put it into perspective, would you rather have in your team: Shaq and Lebron, or Shaq and Wade?

05-24-2005, 02:58 AM	#33
Deattribution College Benchwarmer Join Date: Oct 2003	Dola Until Kobe wins on his own, he will always be to Shaq what Pippen was to Jordan, a key player but replacable.

05-24-2005, 06:23 AM	#34
Raiders Army Coordinator Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: The Black Hole	Neither, I don't take guys.

05-24-2005, 06:24 AM	#35
Raiders Army Coordinator Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: The Black Hole	Dola, or let guys take me.

05-24-2005, 09:57 AM	#37
JeeberD General Manager Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: The Town of Flower Mound	Bah, give me the real Hardaway... __________________ UTEP Miners!!! I solemnly swear to never cheer for TO

05-24-2005, 12:21 PM	#40
weinstein7 High School JV Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: Rochester, NY	Ok, so we all (or at least most of us) agree that it's Lebron Dwyane 'melo What about the rest? I figure Bosh has to be 4 (although I have to admit I've never actually seen him play), then maybe Heinrich 5. Then you've still got contributors like Ridnour, Collison, and Josh Howard, not to mention all the projects.

05-24-2005, 05:28 PM	#43
st.cronin General Manager Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: New Mexico	In a TPF or Strat or fantasy league I think Kobe over Wade is an easy choice. Kobe has more game. In real life, I'll take Wade, thank you very much.

05-24-2005, 07:47 PM	#44
Eaglesfan27 Hall Of Famer Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: New Jersey	One other factor in the Kobe vs Wade argument. Wade is playing with a hobbled Shaq who is not close to what he was during those 3 championship years. That will be important to remember in any final comparisions. Oh yeah, Danny, I watched every Lakers Playoff game as I've always been a Shaq fan. __________________ Retired GM of the eNFL 2007 Super Bowl Champion Philadelphia Eagles (19-0 record.) GM of the WOOF 2006 Doggie Bowl Champion Atlantic City Gamblers. GM of the IHOF 2019 and 2022 IHOF Bowl Champion Asheville Axemen. Last edited by Eaglesfan27 : 05-24-2005 at 07:50 PM.

05-25-2005, 05:58 AM	#47
Neon_Chaos Pro Starter Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: Parañaque, Philippines	How many rings does Shaq have without Kobe in his team? 0 How many rings does Kobe have without Shaq in his team? 0 End of discussion. Come back when Shaq wins a title with the Heat.

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