Indianapolis stadium bill passed! W00t!

Greyroofoo · 04-30-2005, 01:45 PM

http://www.indystar.com/apps/pbcs.dl.../1100/SPORTS03

Colts here to stay!

TLK · 04-30-2005, 02:32 PM

Any chance of the new stadium being built on the corner of West 16th Street and Georgetown?

dubb93 · 04-30-2005, 02:51 PM

The only problem I don't like is that the mayor has to hand the project over to the govenor now. Mitch Daniels has only been in office a short time, but I'm already wishing I hadn't voted for him, he just doesn't seem very trust worthy.

ColtCrazy · 04-30-2005, 07:37 PM

This is great news! My dad got season tickets in '87 and I've been going ever since. I was very happy when they first announced it at a home game last year. I'm impressed with how it will look.

I really hope this will help change the atmosphere of the games. Games at the RCA Dome can be hard at time, it's just a bad place to watch football. The Colts their best to make it fan friendly, but there's just no room there. Once or twice a year I go to a Bengals game, and I love the atmosphere there. I think this new stadium will help with that.

Now I just need to save my pennies in case the new stadium deal lands a Super Bowl

Crapshoot · 04-30-2005, 07:39 PM

Ah yes, spending $500 million on football is exactly what a city should be doing- brilliant.

Edited..

ColtCrazy · 04-30-2005, 07:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Crapshoot

Ah yes, spending $500 million on a football is exactly what a city should be doing- brilliant.

Is that what Manning's record ball went for on eBay?

Mr. Wednesday · 04-30-2005, 08:22 PM

As long as I don't have to pay anything for it (not living in Indianapolis), I don't care, but I'm a little annoyed if any of my money winds up going to support this.

Jesse_Ewiak · 05-01-2005, 12:38 AM

Yay for a city being blackmailed by a billionaire owner...again!

dubb93 · 05-01-2005, 01:32 AM

They needed a new stadium, i've had season tickets for a while and the place is a dump. Alot of the chairs in our section are broken[end-zone, dead center of the uprights, about 8 rows up on the lower level...so its not like we're way up there and they just overlook them] and all of the chairs are too small. Some cup holders are missing, including the seat next to me. There is one big guy that has season tickets in the section that has to stand up at all times.

Daimyo · 05-01-2005, 03:01 AM

As a diehard Colt's fan living outside of Indiana, I kind of hoped they'd move to LA or someplace that could have given them the fan base they deserve. But I guess this is the next best thing...

ShovelMonkey · 05-01-2005, 08:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Crapshoot

Ah yes, spending $500 million on football is exactly what a city should be doing- brilliant.

Edited..

I've always wondered about this; when a city puts out all kind of money for a stadium (any sport) what are the benefits to the city or state? I imagine that retaining a team in a major sport would result in some kind of revenue for the city/state but does anyone know exactly what the relationship is and why the big bucks are consistently spent by taxpayers?

CHEMICAL SOLDIER · 05-01-2005, 02:58 PM

There has to be a book about city politics and stadiums somewhere. But it does look like a good stadium.

Joe · 05-01-2005, 03:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ShovelMonkey

I've always wondered about this; when a city puts out all kind of money for a stadium (any sport) what are the benefits to the city or state? I imagine that retaining a team in a major sport would result in some kind of revenue for the city/state but does anyone know exactly what the relationship is and why the big bucks are consistently spent by taxpayers?

increased business for local establishments, I guess

Desnudo · 05-01-2005, 03:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ShovelMonkey

I've always wondered about this; when a city puts out all kind of money for a stadium (any sport) what are the benefits to the city or state? I imagine that retaining a team in a major sport would result in some kind of revenue for the city/state but does anyone know exactly what the relationship is and why the big bucks are consistently spent by taxpayers?

IIRC, studies show that the economic benefit to a publicly funded stadium is a break-even proposition, at best. However, that doesn't factor in things like public perception of a city, overall happiness, etc..

Wasabiak · 05-01-2005, 03:42 PM

I guess that leaves the Vikings as the last team to not get a new stadium in the last 20+ years. =(

TRO · 05-01-2005, 03:56 PM

Wasabiak: That team in your sig hasn't had a new stadium in 30+ either

Buccaneer · 05-01-2005, 05:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ShovelMonkey

I've always wondered about this; when a city puts out all kind of money for a stadium (any sport) what are the benefits to the city or state? I imagine that retaining a team in a major sport would result in some kind of revenue for the city/state but does anyone know exactly what the relationship is and why the big bucks are consistently spent by taxpayers?

All one has to do is look at what it took for Indy to get the United deal a while ago and what it has ended up costing them.

Wasabiak · 05-01-2005, 05:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TRO

Wasabiak: That team in your sig hasn't had a new stadium in 30+ either

Oops......My bad. I said "Stadium". I meant to say "Inflatable Toilet".

I don't think the KC faithful are interested in demolishing Arrowhead. And has it had any sort of renovation? Like Lamebo Field? Anyway, everyone knows the Vikings have been wanting out of the Dome for years now. That was kinda my point.

TRO · 05-01-2005, 08:00 PM

There has been recent talk of renovation, but it is still the same old concrete sound machine.

Joe · 05-01-2005, 08:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wasabiak

Oops......My bad. I said "Stadium". I meant to say "Inflatable Toilet".

I don't think the KC faithful are interested in demolishing Arrowhead. And has it had any sort of renovation? Like Lamebo Field? Anyway, everyone knows the Vikings have been wanting out of the Dome for years now. That was kinda my point.

I like the dome.

dubb93 · 05-01-2005, 08:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ShovelMonkey

I've always wondered about this; when a city puts out all kind of money for a stadium (any sport) what are the benefits to the city or state? I imagine that retaining a team in a major sport would result in some kind of revenue for the city/state but does anyone know exactly what the relationship is and why the big bucks are consistently spent by taxpayers?

I believe the theory[and I'm not sure of the actual break-even or not] but the city gets the tax money for tickets sold in the stadium[they are planning on upping these in the future, if they haven't already], tax on parking for the stadium, gets to tax the player salaries[and the city of Indy just raised the % taxed on professional athletes], tax the food, and everything else. They also may get more people to frequent the local businesses, hotels, etc on gamedays. Increased overal city happiness for having the sports team. They can also use the stadium for other things, such as concerts and other sporting evens besides just the team it was built for.

Also in Indy's case, it is a chance to tear down the dome and add on to the convention center, which will bring even more money into the city. All kinds of conventions are held in the current convention center, but they say they have to turn down all the bigger ones, because they just don't have the room.

In the end all of this should bring more money into the city, not to mention Jim Irsay has been talking about a potential super bowl in Indy for the new stadium[I say he's crazy].

Mr. Wednesday · 05-01-2005, 08:53 PM

I think it's generally held that the increase in area revenue is a zero sum game, just shifting of money that would have been spent somewhere else in the local economy.

Wolfpack · 05-01-2005, 08:55 PM

If it's an enclosed or retractable roof one, I'd say the odds are good they'll put one there. Detroit would have quite literally a snowball's chance in hell of getting the Super Bowl that's coming up this year (in downtown Detroit, no less) if they hadn't built Ford Field. The NFL is also planning on awarding 2011 (I think) SB to New York when the Jets get their new retractable roof job built. The SB has long been a warm-weather game, but I guess the league would like to play the game more often in some of the colder big cities in the northeast to mix things up a little. (Then again, it never was awarded to the Metrodome)

ColtCrazy · 05-01-2005, 09:27 PM

The package to put the new stadium in is just part of the deal. They are also building a new convention center adjacent to the stadium. The stadium will also not be used just for the Colts, but for other things (NCAA Men's Final Fours at least once every 4 years). The city needed the new convention center because it recently lost 2 of their biggest conventions because the current facility is too small. Basically, it keeps the Colts, which do bring money into the city, but the stadium will bring in more than just that as well.

dubb93 · 05-01-2005, 09:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mr. Wednesday

I think it's generally held that the increase in area revenue is a zero sum game, just shifting of money that would have been spent somewhere else in the local economy.

I'm by no means an expert on this, but that just doesn't seem right to me. That would be true if everyone that went to the games were from Indy, but I'm from an hour away and wouldn't go up there on those days if it wasn't for the colts. I always buy gas in Indy, eat, and sometimes go shopping after the game. That money would have been spent in another city if it wasn't for the colts game. I'm sure other people come from other parts of the state too and inject money into the economy in Indy that wouldn't if it wasn't for the colts being there.

Galaxy · 05-01-2005, 10:05 PM

I'm not sure if Indy can get a Super Bowl. The stadium will have to seat atleast 70,000, and I believe they need a certain amont of hotel rooms within a certain radius. Jacksonville took care of this requirement by lining up ships along the harbour as hotel rooms.

Indy will get Final Fours, ect.

JonInMiddleGA · 05-01-2005, 10:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dubb93

I'm by no means an expert on this, but that just doesn't seem right to me. That would be true if everyone that went to the games were from Indy, but I'm from an hour away and wouldn't go up there on those days if it wasn't for the colts. I always buy gas in Indy, eat, and sometimes go shopping after the game. That money would have been spent in another city if it wasn't for the colts game. I'm sure other people come from other parts of the state too and inject money into the economy in Indy that wouldn't if it wasn't for the colts being there.

Sorry Dubb, but there's indications that this is indeed the case. In fact, there are indications that it actually hurts the local economy in several areas.

http://www.cato.org/pub_display.php?pub_id=2479

Caught Stealing: Debunking the Economic Case for D.C. Baseball
by Dennis Coates and Brad R. Humphreys
Dennis Coates is a professor in the Department of Economics at the University of Maryland, Baltimore County; Brad R. Humphreys is an associate professor in the Department of Recreation, Sport and Tourism at the University of Illinois, Urbana-Champaign.

... Our conclusion, and that of nearly all academic economists studying this issue, is that professional sports generally have little, if any, positive effect on a city’s economy. The net economic impact of professional sports in Washington, D.C., and the 36 other cities that hosted professional sports teams over nearly 30 years, was a reduction in real per capita income over the entire metropolitan area.

I'll let you sift this out yourself if you want, the whole report is fairly interesting & at just 12 pages, it's not a long long read.
http://www.cato.org/pubs/briefs/bp89.pdf

Crapshoot · 05-01-2005, 10:51 PM

What Jon said. If you're interested, Andrew Zimblast has written a couple of books about the subject. Stadiums are a drain on resources- in Pittsburgh, the city went broke (bonds were rated junk) because they built 2 stadiums, but can't get a viable public transportation system.

dubb93 · 05-01-2005, 11:10 PM

Thats an interesting read and my point above may be moot, but I really don't think that that argument really applies in this case. My two reasons are:

The new stadium allows the convention center to be expanded, which was the real reason this new stadium bill even passed. It was dead in the water without money being set aside for the convention center. I don't think anyone is going to argue that allowing the city to host even larger conventions that they have had to turn away in the past will bring in new money.

And number two.....most of the figures in that report show that Indy has benefitted from pro sports, more than almost any other city.

As far as average change in employment in that time frame, now city has had a bigger gain than Indy. The change in earning is almost a non-factor[little down in food/drink, little up in Amusements], but it is hardly the downward spiral that the article would try and make you believe.

Mr. Wednesday · 05-02-2005, 01:42 AM

I was talking about the general case, I have no way of knowing whether a combination of circumstances makes Indy the exception to the rule.

BigJohn&TheLions · 05-02-2005, 04:20 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Daimyo

As a diehard Colt's fan living outside of Indiana, I kind of hoped they'd move to LA or someplace that could have given them the fan base they deserve. But I guess this is the next best thing...

Baltimore?

ColtCrazy · 05-02-2005, 09:50 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dubb93

I'm by no means an expert on this, but that just doesn't seem right to me. That would be true if everyone that went to the games were from Indy, but I'm from an hour away and wouldn't go up there on those days if it wasn't for the colts. I always buy gas in Indy, eat, and sometimes go shopping after the game. That money would have been spent in another city if it wasn't for the colts game. I'm sure other people come from other parts of the state too and inject money into the economy in Indy that wouldn't if it wasn't for the colts being there.

Same with me. I'm about an hour from Indy. I may go there a dozen times a year, and 90% of that will be for the Colts games. I know a lot of other people like that too. It would be one thing if it was to be a football only stadium, but the city will (and has) generated tons of money from NCAA Final Fours. Now Indy will host the Men's and Women's Final Fours every 4 years (so you are guarenteed 2 in a 4 year span). According to the Star, thw two conventions that will return because of the deal will bring back 50-75 million a year that the city lost. Not to mention the new conventions it will bring in.
I think Indy is doing their best to see that this will not be a hunk of stone that only generates income 10 times a year.

Wolfpack · 05-02-2005, 10:18 AM

Indy may also have somewhat of an advantage since they only have two major league teams to support in the Pacers and Colts. The major colleges are also a fair distance away in Bloomington, South Bend, and West Lafayette. As a result, there is less competition for dollars here for the fans than elsewhere. Fewer major sports teams also means fewer lobbying efforts for new digs. The Pacers already have the new-ish Conseco Field House, so this rounds out Indianapolis's commitment to its sports teams. No worrying about baseball or hockey or soccer or anything else (unless the AAA baseball team is asking for something I haven't heard about).

Daimyo · 05-02-2005, 10:44 AM

Sports are really the best thing Indianapolis has going for it and IMO was a major factor maker in how nice the downtown area has become. I can't imagine what the city would be like without the Colts and Pacers.

ColtCrazy · 05-02-2005, 10:54 AM

I can't either, since there's only two teams, the city (and most of the state) has really supported them well. The Pacers more so, since it is a basketball state after all, but I think the Colts are coming into their own. The crowds have been getting better about being "football fans" (not cheering when the offense has the ball, etc)

The Indians (AAA team) got a new stadium just about 8 years ago (and it's beautiful in it's own right), so they are all set on ballparks now.

PghSteelerFan · 05-02-2005, 11:28 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Crapshoot

What Jon said. If you're interested, Andrew Zimblast has written a couple of books about the subject. Stadiums are a drain on resources- in Pittsburgh, the city went broke (bonds were rated junk) because they built 2 stadiums, but can't get a viable public transportation system.

Well, the city went broke for more reasons than the stadiums. The stadiums were acutally built using public tax dollars and some money from the Rooney's and some from the Pirates themselves. The tax money came from Allegheny County (where Pittsburgh is) and the surrounding counties. Have they provided jobs or been a boost to the economy here? The answer would most likely be little if any.

The city went broke because it is still run by a political party that has been in power for 60-70 years and want to continue to run the place like it is 1940.
The population of the city is decreasing but taxes to city residents continue to climb because Pittsburgh wants to provide the city residents the same services that they have for years.

Also, our mass transit (which I ride daily) is run by the county, not city. The money to run it is provided by the state. The problem with them is corruption.

Crapshoot · 05-02-2005, 11:43 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PghSteelerFan

Well, the city went broke for more reasons than the stadiums. The stadiums were acutally built using public tax dollars and some money from the Rooney's and some from the Pirates themselves. The tax money came from Allegheny County (where Pittsburgh is) and the surrounding counties. Have they provided jobs or been a boost to the economy here? The answer would most likely be little if any.

The city went broke because it is still run by a political party that has been in power for 60-70 years and want to continue to run the place like it is 1940.
The population of the city is decreasing but taxes to city residents continue to climb because Pittsburgh wants to provide the city residents the same services that they have for years.

Also, our mass transit (which I ride daily) is run by the county, not city. The money to run it is provided by the state. The problem with them is corruption.

Ah, good point- I forgot Alleghany runs the transit, not Pittsburgh. While I don't particularly care for the politicians and the goddamn city income tax, I think funding the stadiums (and the associated bond issues) was a fairly big reason for it, since the entity (and I admit to treating Pittsburgh as essentialy being Alleghany county) was rated at junk afterwords, which is pretty amazing for an American city.

PghSteelerFan · 05-02-2005, 01:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Crapshoot

Ah, good point- I forgot Alleghany runs the transit, not Pittsburgh. While I don't particularly care for the politicians and the goddamn city income tax, I think funding the stadiums (and the associated bond issues) was a fairly big reason for it, since the entity (and I admit to treating Pittsburgh as essentialy being Alleghany county) was rated at junk afterwords, which is pretty amazing for an American city.

Hey Crapshoot, are you from the area by any chance?

I agree with you entirely. It's sad really. It really is a nice town and really nice area to live and raise a family, its just that the politicians are just ruining it with taxes. So it the state for that matter. For those who don't know, they put the tax to fund the stadiums to a vote and it was defeated in a landslide. So the politicians did it anyway. Nice. I wish we could have voted for a new arena for the Penguins rather than wasting it on the Pirates.

Congrats to Indy! Hope they build a nice OUTDOOR stadium. And I hope that the people of Minneapolis get a nice OUTDOOR stadium as well. There were some great games in Bloomington in the middle of winter. Maybe not for the fans freezing their asses off but still....

Crapshoot · 05-02-2005, 01:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PghSteelerFan

Hey Crapshoot, are you from the area by any chance?

I agree with you entirely. It's sad really. It really is a nice town and really nice area to live and raise a family, its just that the politicians are just ruining it with taxes. So it the state for that matter. For those who don't know, they put the tax to fund the stadiums to a vote and it was defeated in a landslide. So the politicians did it anyway. Nice. I wish we could have voted for a new arena for the Penguins rather than wasting it on the Pirates.

Congrats to Indy! Hope they build a nice OUTDOOR stadium. And I hope that the people of Minneapolis get a nice OUTDOOR stadium as well. There were some great games in Bloomington in the middle of winter. Maybe not for the fans freezing their asses off but still....

Went to school at CMU- graduated last May - so yeah, the memory's fresh. The Pirates stadium always amuses me, since I explain to people that in Pittsburgh, the Steelers are 1, The Penguins are 1A, and the Pirates are somewhere after Primanti Brothers at 38.

PghSteelerFan · 05-02-2005, 01:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Crapshoot

Went to school at CMU- graduated last May - so yeah, the memory's fresh. The Pirates stadium always amuses me, since I explain to people that in Pittsburgh, the Steelers are 1, The Penguins are 1A, and the Pirates are somewhere after Primanti Brothers at 38.

CMU? Congrats! My brother-in-law went there for his B.S. and M.S.

I think it goes Steelers 1, Penguins 1A, High School Football 1B, College Football 1C, Pop Warner Football 1D, Midget Football 1E, etc.

Primanti Brothers #37?. You'd place the Pirates that high at #38?

If I have to hear Lloyd McClendon use the excuse "We had a bad outing" after every loss, especially opening series with the Brewers when they got ourscored 19-2, I think I'm going to scream.

Samdari · 05-02-2005, 02:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ColtCrazy

The stadium will also not be used just for the Colts, but for other things (NCAA Men's Final Fours at least once every 4 years).

Look for this to become permanent, at some point. I have long thought Indianapolis would become the permanent final four home, it was only a matter of time. This new stadium could be the impetus to affect that change.

PraetorianX · 05-02-2005, 03:03 PM

I really think Indy is an exception to the rule that stadiums may be bad for the city. At least, in this case.

As has been mentioned, the NCAA has agreed to allow Indy to host the Men's Final Four every 4 or 5 years...as well as the Women's every 4 or 5 years...and host at least one round every year. That brings in a good deal of money to the city.

And then there is the Convention Center expansion. Indy has always had a lot of conventions and such, but lately they've started losing some of the bigger ones because they don't have the room for them. This will double the size of the convention center, and should bring some of them back, as well as new ones. There was one major company, can't remember whom (RCA or something) that had a convention in Indy, but has left for now and promised to come back if they expanded the Convention Center. It's also important to note that the stadium will be able to host part of the convention.

As to not having enough hotel room for a Super Bowl...Indy hosts the Brickyard 400 and Indianapolis 500 each year, both events draw far more people than the Super Bowl, and they seem to get along fine. Plus I expect with the increased Convention Center room, some new hotels are likely to pop up. And the 70,00 seat thing won't be a problem, as the stadium is designed to be able to get up to 70,000+ (I forget the exact number) in case of a Super Bowl (or anything else that might require it...I could see Indy landing a Bowl game...afterall, it IS the location of the NCAA Headquarters)

So all in all, I think it's a good deal for Indianapolis. And the Colts, of course.

PraetorianX · 05-02-2005, 03:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Samdari

Look for this to become permanent, at some point. I have long thought Indianapolis would become the permanent final four home, it was only a matter of time. This new stadium could be the impetus to affect that change.

Well, the current deal between Indy and the NCAA is for like...20 years or something like that. It's possible they could change it after that.

Indy is the best at Final Fours, though. And (as mentioned in the previous post), being the NCAA Headquarters, it's only logical that championship games would be played there once in awhile.

SteelerFan448 · 05-02-2005, 10:17 PM

Pirates have the best stadium in MLB and the best in AAA. If they can just put a winner in the first (don't know how the minor league team is doing so far).

The city is getting what it wanted now though, a lot of construction is going on around and between the stadiums, it could turn into a very nice place once it is all finished. The key is to have a winning team and you will attract people to the stadium and its surrounding area. When you are the Pirates and lose for 12 years in a row, there is not much incentive to go to the games, especially when you think the ownership could be spending more on players. I'm a big fan and get out to some Buccos games every year, but I sure wish they'd turn it around.

As for the new Indy stadium, I'm assuming it will be a dome so it can host the Final Four, as well as suiting the needs for their current team and style. They will be able to continue their fast offense if it is indeed a dome for a long time to come.

dubb93 · 05-03-2005, 12:49 AM

Its supposed to be a retractable roof. I haven't read anywhere that it will indeed be one, but the video they showed us during the Ravens game was of a retractable roof stadium.

ColtCrazy · 05-03-2005, 09:36 AM

I know Irsay really wants a retractable roof, and I hope it has one as well. It'll make games in September/October nice when the weather is still decent in Indy.

As for the lack of hotel room hurting Indy's chances at a Super Bowl, Jacksonville had that problem as well (which they had to solve by bringing in cruise ships). A good point was brought up about Brickyard and the 500. I've been to Brickyard, and I've never seen a more crammed pack of people than the 100,000+ that go to that. I htink they can handle the Super Bowl just fine. It may get knocked as a small midwestern market, but Indy's downtown is really nice and has a great atmosphere on game days. I'm excited about the new stadium.

KevinNU7 · 05-03-2005, 10:30 AM

http://www.colts.com/sub.cfm?page=stadiumnews

It looks like a barn, kinda cool for the "colts"

KevinNU7 · 05-03-2005, 10:34 AM

Wolfpack · 05-03-2005, 10:44 AM

Since that vantage point is roughly at the height of the highest seats, would it be fair to say you'd need a pair of binoculars just to see the players, let alone whether they're doing anything that resembles basketball? Hell, the binoculars would be needed to see the video screens over the court properly.

KevinNU7 · 05-03-2005, 11:21 AM

I think that vantage point is much hgiehr then the highest seat. And most 60k+ arenas that are converted for basketball have horrible sightlines for the people in the balcony. There a reason who NBA arenas hold less then 20k

04-30-2005, 07:39 PM	#5
Crapshoot Grizzled Veteran Join Date: Dec 2003	Ah yes, spending $500 million on football is exactly what a city should be doing- brilliant. Edited.. Last edited by Crapshoot : 04-30-2005 at 07:51 PM.

04-30-2005, 08:22 PM	#7
Mr. Wednesday Pro Starter Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: South Bend, IN	As long as I don't have to pay anything for it (not living in Indianapolis), I don't care, but I'm a little annoyed if any of my money winds up going to support this. __________________ Hattrick - Brays Bayou FC (70854) / USA III.4 Hockey Arena - Houston Aeros / USA II.1 Thanks to my FOFC Hattrick supporters - Blackout, Brillig, kingfc22, RPI-fan, Rich1033, antbacker, One_to7, ur_land, KevinNU7, and TonyR (PM me if you support me and I've missed you)

05-01-2005, 02:58 PM	#12
CHEMICAL SOLDIER College Starter Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: Henderson, Nevada	There has to be a book about city politics and stadiums somewhere. But it does look like a good stadium. __________________ Toujour Pret

05-01-2005, 03:56 PM	#16
TRO College Prospect Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: Louisburg, KS	Wasabiak: That team in your sig hasn't had a new stadium in 30+ either __________________ TRA, the Royal Ape

05-01-2005, 08:00 PM	#19
TRO College Prospect Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: Louisburg, KS	There has been recent talk of renovation, but it is still the same old concrete sound machine. __________________ TRA, the Royal Ape

04-30-2005, 02:32 PM	#2
TLK Pro Starter Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: Allen Park, MI	Any chance of the new stadium being built on the corner of West 16th Street and Georgetown?

04-30-2005, 07:37 PM	#4
ColtCrazy College Starter Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: Midwest	This is great news! My dad got season tickets in '87 and I've been going ever since. I was very happy when they first announced it at a home game last year. I'm impressed with how it will look. I really hope this will help change the atmosphere of the games. Games at the RCA Dome can be hard at time, it's just a bad place to watch football. The Colts their best to make it fan friendly, but there's just no room there. Once or twice a year I go to a Bengals game, and I love the atmosphere there. I think this new stadium will help with that. Now I just need to save my pennies in case the new stadium deal lands a Super Bowl

05-01-2005, 12:38 AM	#8
Jesse_Ewiak Banned Join Date: Apr 2004	Yay for a city being blackmailed by a billionaire owner...again!

05-01-2005, 03:01 AM	#10
Daimyo College Starter Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: Berkeley	As a diehard Colt's fan living outside of Indiana, I kind of hoped they'd move to LA or someplace that could have given them the fan base they deserve. But I guess this is the next best thing...

05-01-2005, 03:42 PM	#15
Wasabiak High School Varsity Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: Beulah, ND	I guess that leaves the Vikings as the last team to not get a new stadium in the last 20+ years. =(

05-01-2005, 08:53 PM	#22
Mr. Wednesday Pro Starter Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: South Bend, IN	I think it's generally held that the increase in area revenue is a zero sum game, just shifting of money that would have been spent somewhere else in the local economy. __________________ Hattrick - Brays Bayou FC (70854) / USA III.4 Hockey Arena - Houston Aeros / USA II.1 Thanks to my FOFC Hattrick supporters - Blackout, Brillig, kingfc22, RPI-fan, Rich1033, antbacker, One_to7, ur_land, KevinNU7, and TonyR (PM me if you support me and I've missed you)

05-01-2005, 08:55 PM	#23
Wolfpack Pro Rookie Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: Raleigh, NC	If it's an enclosed or retractable roof one, I'd say the odds are good they'll put one there. Detroit would have quite literally a snowball's chance in hell of getting the Super Bowl that's coming up this year (in downtown Detroit, no less) if they hadn't built Ford Field. The NFL is also planning on awarding 2011 (I think) SB to New York when the Jets get their new retractable roof job built. The SB has long been a warm-weather game, but I guess the league would like to play the game more often in some of the colder big cities in the northeast to mix things up a little. (Then again, it never was awarded to the Metrodome)

05-01-2005, 09:27 PM	#24
ColtCrazy College Starter Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: Midwest	The package to put the new stadium in is just part of the deal. They are also building a new convention center adjacent to the stadium. The stadium will also not be used just for the Colts, but for other things (NCAA Men's Final Fours at least once every 4 years). The city needed the new convention center because it recently lost 2 of their biggest conventions because the current facility is too small. Basically, it keeps the Colts, which do bring money into the city, but the stadium will bring in more than just that as well.

05-01-2005, 10:05 PM	#26
Galaxy Coordinator Join Date: Apr 2005	I'm not sure if Indy can get a Super Bowl. The stadium will have to seat atleast 70,000, and I believe they need a certain amont of hotel rooms within a certain radius. Jacksonville took care of this requirement by lining up ships along the harbour as hotel rooms. Indy will get Final Fours, ect.

05-01-2005, 10:51 PM	#28
Crapshoot Grizzled Veteran Join Date: Dec 2003	What Jon said. If you're interested, Andrew Zimblast has written a couple of books about the subject. Stadiums are a drain on resources- in Pittsburgh, the city went broke (bonds were rated junk) because they built 2 stadiums, but can't get a viable public transportation system.

05-02-2005, 01:42 AM	#30
Mr. Wednesday Pro Starter Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: South Bend, IN	I was talking about the general case, I have no way of knowing whether a combination of circumstances makes Indy the exception to the rule. __________________ Hattrick - Brays Bayou FC (70854) / USA III.4 Hockey Arena - Houston Aeros / USA II.1 Thanks to my FOFC Hattrick supporters - Blackout, Brillig, kingfc22, RPI-fan, Rich1033, antbacker, One_to7, ur_land, KevinNU7, and TonyR (PM me if you support me and I've missed you)

05-02-2005, 10:18 AM	#33
Wolfpack Pro Rookie Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: Raleigh, NC	Indy may also have somewhat of an advantage since they only have two major league teams to support in the Pacers and Colts. The major colleges are also a fair distance away in Bloomington, South Bend, and West Lafayette. As a result, there is less competition for dollars here for the fans than elsewhere. Fewer major sports teams also means fewer lobbying efforts for new digs. The Pacers already have the new-ish Conseco Field House, so this rounds out Indianapolis's commitment to its sports teams. No worrying about baseball or hockey or soccer or anything else (unless the AAA baseball team is asking for something I haven't heard about).

05-02-2005, 10:44 AM	#34
Daimyo College Starter Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: Berkeley	Sports are really the best thing Indianapolis has going for it and IMO was a major factor maker in how nice the downtown area has become. I can't imagine what the city would be like without the Colts and Pacers.

05-02-2005, 10:54 AM	#35
ColtCrazy College Starter Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: Midwest	I can't either, since there's only two teams, the city (and most of the state) has really supported them well. The Pacers more so, since it is a basketball state after all, but I think the Colts are coming into their own. The crowds have been getting better about being "football fans" (not cheering when the offense has the ball, etc) The Indians (AAA team) got a new stadium just about 8 years ago (and it's beautiful in it's own right), so they are all set on ballparks now.

05-02-2005, 03:03 PM	#42
PraetorianX High School JV Join Date: Mar 2003	I really think Indy is an exception to the rule that stadiums may be bad for the city. At least, in this case. As has been mentioned, the NCAA has agreed to allow Indy to host the Men's Final Four every 4 or 5 years...as well as the Women's every 4 or 5 years...and host at least one round every year. That brings in a good deal of money to the city. And then there is the Convention Center expansion. Indy has always had a lot of conventions and such, but lately they've started losing some of the bigger ones because they don't have the room for them. This will double the size of the convention center, and should bring some of them back, as well as new ones. There was one major company, can't remember whom (RCA or something) that had a convention in Indy, but has left for now and promised to come back if they expanded the Convention Center. It's also important to note that the stadium will be able to host part of the convention. As to not having enough hotel room for a Super Bowl...Indy hosts the Brickyard 400 and Indianapolis 500 each year, both events draw far more people than the Super Bowl, and they seem to get along fine. Plus I expect with the increased Convention Center room, some new hotels are likely to pop up. And the 70,00 seat thing won't be a problem, as the stadium is designed to be able to get up to 70,000+ (I forget the exact number) in case of a Super Bowl (or anything else that might require it...I could see Indy landing a Bowl game...afterall, it IS the location of the NCAA Headquarters) So all in all, I think it's a good deal for Indianapolis. And the Colts, of course.

05-02-2005, 10:17 PM	#44
SteelerFan448 High School JV Join Date: Apr 2001 Location: Steeler Country	Pirates have the best stadium in MLB and the best in AAA. If they can just put a winner in the first (don't know how the minor league team is doing so far). The city is getting what it wanted now though, a lot of construction is going on around and between the stadiums, it could turn into a very nice place once it is all finished. The key is to have a winning team and you will attract people to the stadium and its surrounding area. When you are the Pirates and lose for 12 years in a row, there is not much incentive to go to the games, especially when you think the ownership could be spending more on players. I'm a big fan and get out to some Buccos games every year, but I sure wish they'd turn it around. As for the new Indy stadium, I'm assuming it will be a dome so it can host the Final Four, as well as suiting the needs for their current team and style. They will be able to continue their fast offense if it is indeed a dome for a long time to come. __________________ "Yoi!"-Myron Cope

05-03-2005, 09:36 AM	#46
ColtCrazy College Starter Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: Midwest	I know Irsay really wants a retractable roof, and I hope it has one as well. It'll make games in September/October nice when the weather is still decent in Indy. As for the lack of hotel room hurting Indy's chances at a Super Bowl, Jacksonville had that problem as well (which they had to solve by bringing in cruise ships). A good point was brought up about Brickyard and the 500. I've been to Brickyard, and I've never seen a more crammed pack of people than the 100,000+ that go to that. I htink they can handle the Super Bowl just fine. It may get knocked as a small midwestern market, but Indy's downtown is really nice and has a great atmosphere on game days. I'm excited about the new stadium.

05-03-2005, 10:30 AM	#47
KevinNU7 College Starter Join Date: May 2003 Location: Beantown	http://www.colts.com/sub.cfm?page=stadiumnews It looks like a barn, kinda cool for the "colts" __________________ Boston Bashers - III.14 - (8347)

05-03-2005, 10:34 AM	#48
KevinNU7 College Starter Join Date: May 2003 Location: Beantown	WOW __________________ Boston Bashers - III.14 - (8347)

05-03-2005, 10:44 AM	#49
Wolfpack Pro Rookie Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: Raleigh, NC	Since that vantage point is roughly at the height of the highest seats, would it be fair to say you'd need a pair of binoculars just to see the players, let alone whether they're doing anything that resembles basketball? Hell, the binoculars would be needed to see the video screens over the court properly.

05-03-2005, 11:21 AM	#50
KevinNU7 College Starter Join Date: May 2003 Location: Beantown	I think that vantage point is much hgiehr then the highest seat. And most 60k+ arenas that are converted for basketball have horrible sightlines for the people in the balcony. There a reason who NBA arenas hold less then 20k __________________ Boston Bashers - III.14 - (8347)

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